12857 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The tribals of old viewed the undead as their loved ones coming back to life and fight for them, serve Cynfael's conquest against the invaders and defend everything which they held dear. They view it as transcending death, where Cynfael reached into the afterlife and brought them back to serve her.

It's become tied into their culture where most ceremonies for funerals of important lords and the like have Necromancers come along and perform a rite which resurrects the dead, each of them leaving for the "holy city to be with Cynfael" shortly afterwards to explain why they don't live among the common people.

When commonfolk dies, the prayer for the deceased is often times "May Cynfael raise you" and other similar terms as Necromancers claim they cannot raise all commoners for various reasons, namely that the holy city would become full, though in actuality is simply to defend them from having to raise daily (magic exhausts the user).

Still reading your post about your idea, but I just wanted to say that this is somewhat similar to one of my concepts for the world I'm trying to create, should the opportunity for me to ever make my own video game series present itself.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 avril 2012 - 11:44 .

[Brockololly]

Probably nobody reads the Silent Grove comics here (hell, I haven't bought any of them either), but reading the summary of what happens in the last one, I think I'll retroactively go back and exile/kill Alistair in Origins just because canon Alistair in that comic is such a mind numbing idiot. "Hey! I'll kill the only person who can help me find Maric because I wanna look tough! And I'll claim to be a super awesome king by leaving Ferelden behind even longer by taking my stupid little adventure to Tevinter!"

Loghain was right. Alistair is a fool.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I always thought Alistair was a fool, but not to that extent.

Good that I had him executed.

[Addai]

So... why exactly does he kill her? I'm confused.

@ Dave: Your story ideas are intriguing, and heh, you weren't kidding about it having nothing to do with TES lore. I'll need to read it over again to have any particular critique. Right now I have about the attention span of a gnat... job stress taking a turn for the dire.

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...

So... why exactly does he kill her? I'm confused.

Granted, I haven't read the actual comic, so maybe I'm missing something. But it seems that Yavana needs Alistair for another ritual thing to awaken some great dragon, of which Yavana has a bunch of dragons  sleeping in her temple thing. And it has to be Alistair because the blood of Calenhad is Super Special- thats why she wanted Maric in the first place. And if Alistair helps her with that, Yavana will help him locate Maric who seems to be in the Tevinter Imperium.

Alistair then spazzes out and has a hissy fit, apparently having bad vibes about another WItch of the Wilds ritual and how Yavana claims her helping him will ease the burden of the crown. So Alistair gut stabs Yavana. Cause we all know gut stabbing a Witch of the Wilds works so well. Then he goes and proclaims how he's going to single handedly find Maric in Tevinter and then go back to Ferelden and be an awesome king.

You know, cause abandoning your kingdom to go on a wild goose chase and killing people that could help is so productive.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I've had it with the ****ing Thereins. A mediocre line of mediocre kings constantly over-glorified that just needs to die.

[ejoslin]

I'm still trying to figure out why a woman who is isolated wears a thong and corset. I mean, I have worn both, but NOT for an evening hanging out alone. After a few hours, it's a relief to get them off.

I really think I'm not the target audience, however... And yes, that was really stupid of Alistair. I think it was supposed to be noble. Or something. Another time he puts ideals above common sense.

[Corker]

ejoslin wrote...

I'm still trying to figure out why a woman who is isolated wears a thong and corset.

Well, the Witches of the Wilds are shapeshifters, right?*

Maybe they hang around their huts and temples in comfy sweatpants until they hear adventurers coming, then glam up for company. 

----------
*I know Morrigan says she only has one human form, but her mom seems to come in Frumpy Grandma and Glamazon versions, so maybe Yavana's got that trick, too?

[Costin_Razvan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I've had it with the ****ing Thereins. A mediocre line of mediocre kings constantly over-glorified that just needs to die.

And here I once hesitated to kill Alistair on my first run and instead exiled him.

Time to pull out the murder knife again.

[tklivory]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I've had it with the ****ing Thereins. A mediocre line of mediocre kings constantly over-glorified that just needs to die.

But Knight, have you forgotten the lesson of the French Pippins?    For shame!

Sometimes it is better to have weak or mediocre kings and rule from behind.  At least you have someone to shove at the mob when the pitchforks and torches flare up.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Not when the entire line provides only idiots and fools. If one is so inclined to have that line, then might as well make it a parliamentary monarchy where the middle class commoners rule and where the Thereins can just be figureheads that look pretty and do not require any thought or vision.

[tklivory]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Not when the entire line provides only idiots and fools. If one is so inclined to have that line, then might as well make it a parliamentary monarchy where the middle class commoners rule and where the Thereins can just be figureheads that look pretty and do not require any thought or vision.

Which has been done on Earth - with varying degrees of success, of course. *cough Elizabeth II cough*

Pretty much every country/region that has had monarchies or monarchical-type rule has had periods where the king was a figurehead (although King John may have been the only one to literally sign away his power...)

While more prevalent in feudal societies, there are examples in Europe and Asia both (and, to a lesser extent, India post-Aryan invasion, though the documentation is a bit sparse).  Heck, one could argue that the kings of Sparta/Lakaedemonia were like this, though it was more based on personality than law in that case.

I do think the Theirins were a weak line - Calenhad seems to have started a government based more on the Magna Carta than on absolute rule, especially since all monarchs of Ferelden are beholden to the Landsmeet for the crown, anyway (Bryce could have been King, Sophia Dryden lost the crown by Landsmeet vote to Arland, &c).  Eamon was rabidly pro-Theirin, but that argument didn't seem to sway nobles in the Landsmeet (though that could be put to game mechanics, o' course).  But, a weak line isn't inherently a bad form of government, as long as talented people are willing to step forward.

Hmmm, maybe that's Ferelden's problem.  Only a Blight can showcase their competent people! :happy:

Modifié par tklivory, 04 mai 2012 - 05:37 .

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I've had it with the ****ing Thereins. A mediocre line of mediocre kings constantly over-glorified that just needs to die.

And here I once hesitated to kill Alistair on my first run and instead exiled him.

Time to pull out the murder knife again.

I don't know about killing him- that's sinking to the same level- but if I were still playing DAO, my canon would no longer be making Alistair king.  You guys were right all along, he shouldn't be king.  Never mind that he and Maric both show the penchant for running off on their responsibilities, apparently according to his creator he would take that fact out on whatever Morriganesque woman comes across his path.  I surely wouldn't marry him to Anora anymore.  With her scheming ways, she'd end up with a sword in her gut too.

Ugh, why did I even read that comic.  Let's be thankful that Loghain's being lost to ignominy.  He's better off that way.  At least one part of the lore story remains good.

[tklivory]

Addai67 wrote...

Ugh, why did I even read that comic.  Let's be thankful that Loghain's being lost to ignominy.  He's better off that way.  At least one part of the lore story remains good.

The one advantage to a story with Alistair as King... Loghain can't be 'modified' by later installments of the story.  Oy.  (Disclaimer: haven't read the comic yet...)

[KnightofPhoenix]

tklivory wrote...

But, a weak line isn't inherently a bad form of government, as long as talented people are willing to step forward.

You're relying on luck.

For such a system to succeed, the nobility must be sidelined as they are imbeciles and the middle class should assume political power in a parliament. That's the only way I would tolerate the Thereins. Otherwise, the line must be eradicated.

There are countless of polities that collapsed because it had talented people step forward in a way that is unlawful or controversial. So one needs to make laws and institutions to favor the rise of talented people, which will not be the spoiled nobility, and sideline the monarchs.

Alternatively, eradicate the line and establish a real monarchy that will rid Ferelden of its idiotc nobility and of its primitive state. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
You guys were right all along, he shouldn't be king.  Never mind that he and Maric both show the penchant for running off on their responsibilities.

Finally.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
You guys were right all along, he shouldn't be king.  Never mind that he and Maric both show the penchant for running off on their responsibilities.

Finally.

LOL It's been a slow and painful conversion.

[tklivory]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

tklivory wrote...

But, a weak line isn't inherently a bad form of government, as long as talented people are willing to step forward.

You're relying on luck.

For such a system to succeed, the nobility must be sidelined as they are imbeciles and the middle class should assume political power in a parliament. That's the only way I would tolerate the Thereins. Otherwise, the line must be eradicated.

There are countless of polities that collapsed because it had talented people step forward in a way that is unlawful or controversial. So one needs to make laws and institutions to favor the rise of talented people, which will not be the spoiled nobility, and sideline the monarchs.

Alternatively, eradicate the line and establish a real monarchy that will rid Ferelden of its idiotc nobility and of its primitive state. 

What is the value of a 'real' monarchy, though?  Either system is dependent on luck just as much as hoping competent people step forward.  Having a Henry II doesn't excuse the sad excuses for kings that his sons were in the ultimate historical sense.

I'd rather hope for luck from a greater pool of people (even if you end up with the occasional Cromwell) than hope that the one or two people eligible for the crown don't suffer from some inbred degenerative disorder or overzealous Turkish guards.

Also, making laws that codify a system of government doesn't make that government good for the people, legitimate, or effective.  *whistle*

OTOH, i haven't eaten yet, so I'm not sure where my sense is ATM.

[Costin_Razvan]

Knight never said that a monarchy was good system, just pointing that out.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 04 mai 2012 - 11:25 .

[Joy Divison]

Ruling through a line of puppets is inherently dangerous as you run the risk of a competent and ambitious figurehead using the nominal power you granted and transforming it into legitimate power from which you would be at a profound disadvantage.

I never quite understood the fascination or appeal with ruling through puppets. I'd much rather have competent people beholden to me, who "the people" see as their benefactor.

[KnightofPhoenix]

tklivory wrote...
Also, making laws that codify a system of government doesn't make that government good for the people, legitimate, or effective.  *whistle*

Never said it makes it good. I said it makes it orderly.
Having talented people assume power randomly against the law and system has generally turned bad for the polity.
The example I have in mind is Muhammad bin Abi 'Amer.

And like Costin said, I never said monarchy was a good system in principle. I am hardcore meritocratic.
But I believe that a centralized monarchy can impose reforms towards a mordern state based on the middle class much faster than a feudal one. If not a centralized monarchy, then a centralized system ruled by a parliament. Either way, centralization is a must and the status quo in Ferelden cannot continue.

[TEWR]

Having not read the Calling or the Stolen Throne, I can't be a great judge on Maric's character. But I like to think that with Anora and a hardened Alistair on the throne, Ferelden's not hopeless.

I mean, Alistair showed some smarts by going to the Free Marches and trying to get Kirkwall's aid against the threat of Orlais.

Still, I do find his actions towards Yavana really... stupid. Having not read the comics, I won't say that it's bad writing/characterization since I only know a basic gist, but I don't think Alistair should've done that.

From what I understand, Yavana offered him the power of a dragon to help free Maric. One would think that if you're going to travel to Tevinter -- where mages are at their most powerful in all of Thedas -- having a dragon at your beck and call would be a great asset.

But let's go lone ranger with guns blazing into Tevinter!

EDIT: The whole Calenhad blood being special is actually something that doesn't bug me, if it's special in the way I think it is. I think that it was claimed somewhere that they held a bloodline linked to Andraste herself. Or that was the belief people held, anyway.

And my personal opinion on Andraste is that she's the Dumat OGB, a Somniari blood mage.

Would make sense why the Theirin bloodline is able to bring back dragons.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 06 mai 2012 - 03:58 .

[Mike3207]

One concern I always have about letting Anora execute Alistair(and I always do it)-what happens if something happens to Anora? The Warden will be disappearing at the end of DA2, and I think it's very unusual you don't hear anything about her after the 1st chapter of DA2. I always had the feeling she died a natural death during the 1st Act when you do the Cousland/Anora path-the game just never mentions it.

Modifié par Mike Smith, 06 mai 2012 - 01:24 .

[tklivory]

Mike Smith wrote...

One concern I always have about letting Anora execute Alistair(and I always do it)-what happens if something happens to Anora? The Warden will be disappearing at the end of DA2, and I think it's very unusual you don't hear anything about her after the 1st chapter of DA2. I always had the feeling she died a natural death during the 1st Act when you do the Cousland/Anora path-the game just never mentions it.

At that point, I would assume the Landsmeet would elect a new ruler - Fergus, perhaps, since there's no reason that Fergus wouldn't survive in the other Origins, or Eamon, or whoever the Landsmeet decides on.  After all, it is the Landsmeet that decides who is king/queen.  Even if the choice often tends towards choosing a Thierin, it doesn't seem to be an absolute (as Sophia Dryden's journal makes clear).
 
Of course, regardless of whether Alistair lives or dies, the Fereldan succession is in the air as Anora/Alistair *don't* have children, Anora alone never marries again, Alistair/F!Cousland *can't* have children, and there's the barest chance that Alistair/F!stranger *might* have a child if Alistair is crowned king alone.  So if Anora dies early, it just means Ferelden faces the same problem it would have anyway.