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[Fiacre]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

After Howe's little "for the lulz" purge? It'd be tough to say really. I'm sure it would breed an air of animosity that, if left unchecked and wasn't handled accordingly, would eventually spiral into various riots -- the intensity of which would vary from Alienage to Alienage methinks.

The other alienages might not know the details, though, short of through arranged marriages with the Denerim one afterward. And since Howe gets publically disgraced and possibly killed by one of the new monarchs, that  might help pacify them?

Indeed. They could possess the living or the dead, apostates and Circle Mages in the area, or just do a repeat of the Orphanage.

It's a very dangerous thing for the future of Denerim/Ferelden.

What would be done with the Orphanage, even after the demon there is killed (*if* you even do that sidequest -- I didn't with my canon and I'm still not sure if I should see that as a canon choice or clasify it as the laziness that it was...), since the veil s still thin there? (...Say, do those ghosts like you have them in the Orphanage and the forst ruins ever appear in DA2? I've only just noticed that they apparently only show up were elves are involved, at least as far as I remember.) Though the mages can live just fine in the old tower in WH, despite the veil being thin there, too (and it even being compared to Soldier's Peak).

That's probably why Alistair and Anora are great for Ferelden, short of a Human Noble having a real plan in mind from beginning to end (like KoP's Arcturus, whose blog I've read and agreed with because it mirrors my own thoughts more or less).

Anyway, Alistair and Anora are a great pair, if the former is hardened. Anora even comes to think prior to the epilogue that Alistair will make a decent king -- better then Cailan anyway, which doesn't take much considering a potted plant would be a better king then Cailan -- and Alistair knows how to be fair and just to the people.

Anora would probably be willing to use that to Ferelden's advantage. By giving the Elves better lives, they can improve Ferelden's status in the long run, if done right.

Arcturus is pretty awesome

I'm not sure an HN needs to have a plan from the very beginning, though, as long as they don't screw up once they become consort. Epsecially in a HNM + Anora scenario, since the role he fills is Alistair's and Anora already has the political stuff covered for the most part; a HNF would have it more difficult since she needs to be politically competent enough to make up for Anora. Being good at politics is certainly not a bad thing, though, as long as it doesn't end in a power struglle. (But you could say that starting one would shpw a lack of political skills, I suppose.)

To be honest, I've always been surprised that Anora + hardened Alistair apparently works. If you killed Loghain, she has every resason to resent you and it probably wouldn't take long for her to find out Alistair's feelings regarding her father, provided you didn't attempt to spare Loghain at the Landsmeet in the first place (or does Riordan still interrupt if you don't simply say that you accept his surrender? I've never tried that.), so she has a good reason to resent Alistair as well. While if Loghain lives, Alistair says himself that he won't simply let her do what she wants. If then the DR instead of Loghain Redeemer is done, things would be even worse....

It's why I generally prefer Anora solo or with an HNM; she might lack military skills and not be as personable, but she knows politics and a HNM could take on Alistair's role and (possibly more, due to having a better education, especially when it comes to things like ruling) without as much potential for tensions, unless the HN is super power hungry.

[TEWR]

Fiacre wrote...
The other alienages might not know the details, though, short of through arranged marriages with the Denerim one afterward. And since Howe gets publically disgraced and possibly killed by one of the new monarchs, that  might help pacify them?

Well, recall that Howe was the Teyrn of Highever as well as the Arl of Amaranthine and Denerim. I see no reason to think that he wasn't just as oppressive to the Elves in Highever and Amaranthine -- assuming Amaranthine has an Alienage, though Awakening seems to indicate it doesn't -- as he was to the Elves of Denerim.

So if so, then the Elves would know full well what Howe did.

Still, you have a point in that since he gets killed, it might pacify them. But something tells me that'd only be a short term fix, with the bitter memories still embedded in the Elves' minds and unless change did happen, history could repeat itself.

What would be done with the Orphanage, even after the demon there is killed (*if* you even do that sidequest -- I didn't with my canon and I'm still not sure if I should see that as a canon choice or clasify it as the laziness that it was...), since the veil s still thin there?

Well, if you don't do it at all, I'd assume that Ser Otto would report to his superiors about the foul presence in the Alienage and ask for permission to launch a thorough investigation -- or at least have a few Templars that can see join him -- and eventually the Orphanage crisis and the thin Veil might be fixed. 

At the cost of a lot of Templars, but fixed nonetheless.

If you do the quest, then I'd assume that the thin Veil is repaired, given that the Deranged Beggar says that the "bad men cry no more". The Orphanage would probably, given time, be renovated and fixed to once again serve its intended purpose.

It's horrible how Howe's men would slaughter children though. I mean, that just goes too far.
 

(...Say, do those ghosts like you have them in the Orphanage and the forst ruins ever appear in DA2? I've only just noticed that they apparently only show up were elves are involved, at least as far as I remember.) Though the mages can live just fine in the old tower in WH, despite the veil being thin there, too (and it even being compared to Soldier's Peak).

Well, you'll fight Dwarven ghosts in the Deep Roads and see the Memories of the Stone in Kal-Hirol remember? So it's not just an Elven thing -- though the circumstances surrounding the two are different. One's an Elven practice, the other is due to the Stone being a living entity.

As for Kinloch Hold, true the Mages live there and the Veil is thin there as well, but rifts in the Veil can be repaired so I assume that there the Templars and Mages work to fix it -- unlike in Kirkwall, but that's another story.

Arcturus is pretty awesome

He really is. KoP put a lot of thought into that blog and character, and it shows.

I'm not sure an HN needs to have a plan from the very beginning, though, as long as they don't screw up once they become consort

Hmm.. perhaps it was poor phrasing on my part. True, you don't need a plan, but it'd certainly help.

To be honest, I've always been surprised that Anora + hardened Alistair apparently works. If you killed Loghain, she has every resason to resent you and it probably wouldn't take long for her to find out Alistair's feelings regarding her father, provided you didn't attempt to spare Loghain at the Landsmeet in the first place , so she has a good reason to resent Alistair as well

That resentment would just be towards you though. And remember, she acknowledges that to a great many nobles the Theirin bloodline is more important to them then other things. So she'd be a fool to let her personal feelings prompt her to declare the marriage as something that shouldn't happen, saying that Alistair cannot and will not be King of Ferelden.

That'd spark a civil war again.

(or does Riordan still interrupt if you don't simply say that you accept his surrender? I've never tried that.)

No idea. I haven't killed Loghain in eons.

. While if Loghain lives, Alistair says himself that he won't simply let her do what she wants. If then the DR instead of Loghain Redeemer is done, things would be even worse....

Why would that be worse? Alistair simply says that he won't let Anora rule the country for every decision. He doesn't say that he won't let her help with ruling.

He just doesn't want to leave it in her hands, probably due to her being Loghain's daughter and he's afraid that if he did, she might do some Loghain-esque things (though that doesn't seem like the reason).

The far more likely reason is simply that, since he's hardened, he's reminded of when you told him he needs to stick up for himself and not let other people tell him what to do.

So he's determined to not let Anora's -- and possibly the Warden's -- suggestion that he let Anora rule entirely while he's a figurehead King be the case. He wants to actually be a noble that does something.

[Fiacre]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Well, recall that Howe was the Teyrn of Highever as well as the Arl of Amaranthine and Denerim. I see no reason to think that he wasn't just as oppressive to the Elves in Highever and Amaranthine -- assuming Amaranthine has an Alienage, though Awakening seems to indicate it doesn't -- as he was to the Elves of Denerim.

So if so, then the Elves would know full well what Howe did.

Still, you have a point in that since he gets killed, it might pacify them. But something tells me that'd only be a short term fix, with the bitter memories still embedded in the Elves' minds and unless change did happen, history could repeat itself.

The Highever alienage might have been lucky of they didn't riot. And I think one of the gossip rumours is that there's riots in Highever in general, so with some luck the elves there might ot have taken it as personal. It's probably better to try and appease them, though, which might be a problem for a solo Anora, since she's not as personal and has the food riot.

Howe doesn't just get killed, though, he pretty much gets destroyed -- his titles taken away, seen as a traitor, his name now a curse, in Awakening Nathaniel also rants about how they got rid of Byron Howe's statue for being a Howe. The elves could take that as a sign that wat Howe did is deemed unacceptable and that his actions won't be repeated, though with no follow up that won't be of any help in the long run.

Well, if you don't do it at all, I'd assume that Ser Otto would report to his superiors about the foul presence in the Alienage and ask for permission to launch a thorough investigation -- or at least have a few Templars that can see join him -- and eventually the Orphanage crisis and the thin Veil might be fixed. 

At the cost of a lot of Templars, but fixed nonetheless.

If you do the quest, then I'd assume that the thin Veil is repaired, given that the Deranged Beggar says that the "bad men cry no more". The Orphanage would probably, given time, be renovated and fixed to once again serve its intended purpose.

It's horrible how Howe's men would slaughter children though. I mean, that just goes too far.

Poor Templars <.< Let's hope they didn't send any of the nice ones then.

Hmm, I always thought the deranged beggar is getting better because I gave her the amulet, though I suppose she could be sensitive to the thin veil and killing the demons helps with that. What about the Brecilian Forest, though? No one there mentions that the Veil gets better because you kill a lot of the demons there and in both case it became thin because of too much bloodshed.

And Howe really deserves the title of Complete Monster :| He's fun to hate, but still. And his ruthlesseness in  slaughtering children is also pointed out in the HN origin. Poor Oren, poor squires...
 

Well, you'll fight Dwarven ghosts in the Deep Roads and see the Memories of the Stone in Kal-Hirol remember? So it's not just an Elven thing -- though the circumstances surrounding the two are different. One's an Elven practice, the other is due to the Stone being a living entity.

As for Kinloch Hold, true the Mages live there and the Veil is thin there as well, but rifts in the Veil can be repaired so I assume that there the Templars and Mages work to fix it -- unlike in Kirkwall, but that's another story.

I am dumb and forgot about Kal Hirol and the Deep Roads D: How did I even. It might be a similar phenomenon, though, since the little boy probably didn't get öaid to rest like the woman in that... burial chamber(?) might have been. Though the elven ghosts talked, the dwarfen ones just attack or are apparitions from the fight in Kal Hirol...

And i should really play DA2 already, shouldn't I? Ugh... Saving up money is so hard.

Hmm.. perhaps it was poor phrasing on my part. True, you don't need a plan, but it'd certainly help.

It does! But I think as long as you don't make the elves your enemy or choose Harrowmont you'll be relatively fine. Shame there's no hint that Eamon could become your enemy while you can still harm him. Shea is very bitter about the developments alluded to in WH after all he did to save Eamon and his family.

That resentment would just be towards you though. And remember, she
acknowledges that to a great many nobles the Theirin bloodline is more
important to them then other things. So she'd be a fool to let her
personal feelings prompt her to declare the marriage as something that
shouldn't happen, saying that Alistair cannot and will not be King of
Ferelden.

That'd spark a civil war again.

She does refuse to marry him if he deals the killing blow, though. And if he makes it clear that he agrees with the decision -- or even is the one pushing you to kill Loghain -- she might still resent him. The tension could be a proble, though I don't see her outright acting against him after accepting the marriage.

No idea. I haven't killed Loghain in eons.

Same here. Poor Alistair has a remarkable mortality rate in my games. Of my four unfinished ones, three are likely going to execute him...

Why would that be worse? Alistair simply says that he won't let Anora rule the country for every decision. He doesn't say that he won't let her help with ruling.

He just doesn't want to leave it in her hands, probably due to her being Loghain's daughter and he's afraid that if he did, she might do some Loghain-esque things (though that doesn't seem like the reason).

The far more likely reason is simply that, since he's hardened, he's reminded of when you told him he needs to stick up for himself and not let other people tell him what to do.

So he's determined to not let Anora's -- and possibly the Warden's -- suggestion that he let Anora rule entirely while he's a figurehead King be the case. He wants to actually be a noble that does something.

Tension. Since they both have power, they need to get along, and form what I've been told alistair is a lot less bitter about Loghain surviving if he dies agaisnt the Archdemon. I've never has that ending though, since I've never married the two and always do the DR. I'm boring like that :|

My worry is mostly that if the two don't get along that both being reigning monarchs they might stop each other from achieving as much as they alone would. Anora solo apparently does some progressive things with furthering trade and the university, Alsitair solo is good for stability due to his Theirin blood. Both together might stop Anora from being as effective while them not getting along could prove bad for stabiliity.

Which is not to say it can't work and according to the epilogue it apparently does. It's always surpised me a little, though, especially with how overwhelmingly postive their slide is, only rivaled by Anora + HNM (provided those two don't fight each other).

[Persephone]

Han Shot First wrote...

Had circumstances been different my Aedan Cousland may have been inclined to treat Loghain with chivalry, if for no other reason than his past service to Ferelden. But because he had been a player in the murder of Teryn Cousland and his Lady wife, honor demanded Loghain's head.

Except, he wasn't involved in the Cousland massacre. Howe did that alone, as confirmed by David Gaider himself.

[TEWR]

[quote]Fiacre wrote...

Poor Templars <.< Let's hope they didn't send any of the nice ones then. [/quote]

The nice Templars are always the ones that die sadly. Very rarely will the douchey ones get killed .

[quote]
Hmm, I always thought the deranged beggar is getting better because I gave her the amulet, though I suppose she could be sensitive to the thin veil and killing the demons helps with that.[/quote]

I imagine she's a Mage, given her sensitivity to the thin Veil and the Demons. True, the amulet helps her get better. Perhaps it's enchanted? Or maybe from the time of the Dales/Arlathan? Who knows. 

[quote]
What about the Brecilian Forest, though? No one there mentions that the Veil gets better because you kill a lot of the demons there and in both case it became thin because of too much bloodshed.[/quote]

Well, the Brecilian Forest is pretty massive. It'd take a lot of work and a lot of Mages to get that to be repaired, whereas the Orphanage is smaller and more easily reparable.

[quote]
And Howe really deserves the title of Complete Monster :| He's fun to hate, but still. And his ruthlesseness in  slaughtering children is also pointed out in the HN origin. Poor Oren, poor squires...[/quote]

Indeed. At least there, there was some sense to be gleamed from it. It's horrible and something I detest, but the mindset he seemed to be going off of was "Any Cousland left alive is a threat. Any witnesses left alive are a threat".

Complete Monster doesn't even sound fitting enough for Howe's depravity.
 


[quote]

I am dumb and forgot about Kal Hirol and the Deep Roads D: How did I even. It might be a similar phenomenon, though, since the little boy probably didn't get öaid to rest like the woman in that... burial chamber(?) might have been. Though the elven ghosts talked, the dwarfen ones just attack or are apparitions from the fight in Kal Hirol...[/quote]

Yea, it was a burial chamber. The DA wiki gives a translation of what the two of them say. The boy asks "Mommy? I can't find the place" or something of the sort, while the woman says "How did you find this place? This place has been lost for centuries! No! Get away from the tree! You're desecrating my grave! You're desecrating my grave!"

[quote]
And i should really play DA2 already, shouldn't I? Ugh... Saving up money is so hard.[/quote]

My opinion of DAII is that it's story isn't all that great. The concept of it was, but the execution fell flat. Opinions are divided on that -- though everyone has reached a consensus that Act 3 was a crapfest among crapfests -- so it's really something you'd have to form for yourself.

Lore wise, it's pretty interesting what new lore it gives -- though some of it doesn't get its due. Story-wise, it's IMO not anything close to DAO's level.

The politics of the game are a sham, though you can see the trace elements of what Bioware was going for if you look close enough -- with a jackhammer, some acid, and maybe a couple sticks of dynamite.



[quote]It does! But I think as long as you don't make the elves your enemy or choose Harrowmont you'll be relatively fine. Shame there's no hint that Eamon could become your enemy while you can still harm him. Shea is very bitter about the developments alluded to in WH after all he did to save Eamon and his family.[/quote]

Definitely don't ever choose Harrowmont. He's the worst king Orzammar could ever have had.

And what developments are you talking about, in particular?



[quote]

She does refuse to marry him if he deals the killing blow, though[/quote]

True, but it wasn't set in stone amidst the nobility at that point. It was still an in-theory thing, and the noblility hadn't really known about it save for Eamon, Alistair, and Anora.


[quote]
. And if he makes it clear that he agrees with the decision -- or even is the one pushing you to kill Loghain -- she might still resent him. The tension could be a proble, though I don't see her outright acting against him after accepting the marriage.[/quote]

Well, I think she understands where he's coming from well enough, if he's not the one shoving a sword down Loghain's throat so to speak.

If he does kill him, then she just can't stand to see her father's murderer all the time. I think the feelings Alistair harbors have little to do with it really. It's just that she can't stand to look at him because she'll always remember that moment -- considering it's done right in front of her and the Landsmeet, which I think is too harsh a punishment for both Loghain and Anora.

I mean, it'd be one thing if Loghain went to his death by way of the hangman's noose or did the Redeemer ending against the Archdemon.

For the former, she doesn't have to witness it. For the other, it's... well... self-explanatory.


[quote]
Same here. Poor Alistair has a remarkable mortality rate in my games. Of my four unfinished ones, three are likely going to execute him...[/quote]

I tend to stick to the Alistair+Anora gig all the time. Maybe if I do another Human Noble, I'll marry Anora.



[quote]
Tension. Since they both have power, they need to get along, and form what I've been told alistair is a lot less bitter about Loghain surviving if he dies agaisnt the Archdemon. I've never has that ending though, since I've never married the two and always do the DR. I'm boring like that :|[/quote]

Same here. I always do the DR, though my reasons for doing it are different depending on my origin.

[quote]
My worry is mostly that if the two don't get along that both being reigning monarchs they might stop each other from achieving as much as they alone would. Anora solo apparently does some progressive things with furthering trade and the university, Alsitair solo is good for stability due to his Theirin blood. Both together might stop Anora from being as effective while them not getting along could prove bad for stabiliity.[/quote]

SPOILER FOR DAII

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There's a quest in DAII where you meet King Alistair -- so long as he was made King, anyway -- and he doesn't say anything to lead one to believe him and Anora on the throne has faced any problems with their ruling jointly. In fact, it seems that they're actually very united, considering what King Alistair will tell you about Ferelden's status as of when you meet him. Just as much, Aveline -- a companion in the game -- will state that Alistair is a very popular king in Ferelden.

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END SPOILERS.

[Fiacre]

Faerunner wrote...

Howe is a racist sociopath that butchers people for his own amusement.
Elves have much less protection under the law and thus are easier
targets. Since he wastes no time in taking advantage of this when
he first arrives in Denerim, I somehow doubt he was nicer to the elves
in the province he ruled for years or the one he took over in Highever a
week or so before. (Especially since he was doing a hostile takeover
and was killing any humans who resisted too...)

It's kind of hard
not to take it personally when law enforcement always looks the other
way when humans commit crimes against elves, but said law
enforcement never fails to swoop down on elves and arrest, imprison,
torture, execute or purge them when they commit crimes back, or worse,
stand up for themselves.

IIRC the elves in Denerim rebelled because of the events in the CE origin, didn't they? The Highever elves, may not have rebelled, and so *might* not have gotten hit with something quite so bad -- if they were lucky, which admittedly is not the most likely scenario -- or they rebelled together with the humans, in which case they might not take it as personal since Howe put down anyone who rebelled against him -- which isn't guaranteed.

The more likely scenario is probably that the Highever elves still got it pretty if not just as bad and may have been purged as well and we were just never told about it.

Or they could take it that Howe is deemed unacceptable because of his actions against human (nobles), not his actions against elves. Like you said, Howe butchered both humans and elves alike. Since humans tend to not care what happens to elves, but hated Howe for what he did to humans and nobles, I think the elves have good reason to think the general populace doesn't care about them, and won't care in the future when humans hurt them again.

You'll notice in Awakening that Howe gets called a "traitor" and "usurper," but no one calls him a slaver.

Indeed. Howe being punished could perhaps help, but any potential good will (and there likely wouldn't be that much, if any) would only be of use to the monarch if they follow up on it.

And as far as we know the slavery -- if it's even brought up at the Landsmeet and becomes widely known -- is  blamed on Loghain, no matter how much Howe probably had to do with it.

I don't think one needs to play the human noble origin to know he's willing to slaughter chidren. I think the orphanage in the alienage is enough testament to his ruthlessness.

In fact, I kind of have to agree with The Ethereal Writer Redux about this. What Howe did in Highever was completely terrible, there's no argument there, but there was at least some warpped and twisted logic behind it. The guy was trying to take over a castle and province, and to do that he needed to kill everyone inside, including the children. (No witnesses or survivors.) What he did to them was terrible, but it at least served some (horrendoubly amoral) practical purpose.

The Denerim Alienage Orphanage? There was absolutely no reason for that. Howe led the purge on the pretext of quelling the riots and/or bringing Vaughan's attackers to justice. The orphans of the Denerim Alienage were clearly doing neither, so there was literally no need to kill them. They were poor and helpless; they weren't bothering anyone. They didn't oppose him by existing and he didn't gain anything by killing them--except maybe to demoralize the other elves, but they were at his guards' mercy anyway, so there was absolutely no need whatsoever to do that. Just for sadistic satisfaction and power-play.

Course you don't, that's why I said it's also shown there. It's simply another instance that shows how far Howe is willing to go, even if Highever is "justifiable" as far as practicality goes while what happened in Denerim was simply "For the Evulz". Pretty much any time the man does anything he shows himself to be a monster.

[Fiacre]

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
The nice Templars are always the ones that die sadly. Very rarely will the douchey ones get killed .[/quote]

Ser Otto's death was traumatizing  That demon was impaled with extreme prejudice shortly afterwards and deserved it, hmph.

[quote]
I imagine she's a Mage, given her sensitivity to the thin Veil and
the Demons. True, the amulet helps her get better. Perhaps
it's enchanted? Or maybe from the time of the Dales/Arlathan? Who
knows.
[/quote]

Wouldn't she have been found out and brought to the Circle,  though? And I always assumed she'd been driven mad by the trauma of that night and that the amulet held a personal significance, so getting it back soothed her. Especially since we don't know the details of that night.

[quote]
Well, the Brecilian Forest is pretty massive. It'd take a lot of
work and a lot of Mages to get that to be repaired, whereas the
Orphanage is smaller and more easily reparable.[/quote]

true. And it was likely never worth the work... Makes me wonder why the elves go there, especially since Zathrian knew about the werewolves and should have expected an attack sooner or later, and all the demons alone should have been dangerous enough.

[quote]
Indeed. At least there, there was some sense to be gleamed from it. It's
horrible and something I detest, but the mindset he seemed to be going
off of was "Any Cousland left alive is a threat. Any witnesses left
alive are a threat".

Complete Monster doesn't even sound fitting enough for Howe's depravity.[/quote]

Yeah, the Cousland massacre at least makes some sense in the context of what he was trying to achieve.

And considering how many villains with a convincing Freudian Excuse get labbeled as Complete Monsters Howe really needs something more fitting. (And I should spend less time on tvtropes <.<)

[quote]
Yea, it was a burial chamber. The DA wiki gives a translation of what
the two of them say. The boy asks "Mommy? I can't find the place" or
something of the sort, while the woman says "How did you find this
place? This place has been lost for centuries! No! Get away from the
tree! You're desecrating my grave! You're desecrating my grave!"
[/quote]

Ah, good! I wasn't sure if you'd call it that, but considering it's purpose it's fitting. And since both talk about a place, the boy might have something to do with it, after all... That leaves the ghost in the Orphanage, who likely didn't have anything to do with any elven practices.

Thinking about it, the dwarfen ghosts could be two differnt things entirely, due the one in the Deep Roads being labeled Restless/Forgotten/whatever else Spririts and hostile, while the ones in Kal'Hirol seemed like... images from the past. The elven ghosts seem more like the former, provided the boy in the ruins actually noticed you and ran away because of you.

[quote]
My opinion of DAII is that it's story isn't all that great. The concept
of it was, but the execution fell flat. Opinions are divided on that --
though everyone has reached a consensus that Act 3 was a crapfest among
crapfests -- so it's really something you'd have to form for yourself.

Lore
wise, it's pretty interesting what new lore it gives -- though some of
it doesn't get its due. Story-wise, it's IMO not anything close to DAO's
level.

The politics of the game are a sham, though you can see
the trace elements of what Bioware was going for if you look close
enough -- with a jackhammer, some acid, and maybe a couple sticks of
dynamite. [/quote]

It's mostly the lore that interests me, anyway, Ive heard enough negatie opinons about it not to expect some awesome game on DAO's level. It's just a bit bothersome to aways wonder if maybe DA2 answered any of my questions and if I read *everything* on the wiki beforehand it might not be as fun when I do play it. I've spoiled myself a lot as is. Apparently there's also some interesting stuff regarding the dwarves, Sandal's cryptic prohpecy sounds terribly intriguing and also, Flemeth. I've always wondered if she had anything to do with Sarim Cousland, since he was Conobar's guard captain and took over after Flemeth supposedly killed Conobar. And she's generally one of the most interesting characters in DA.


[quote]Definitely don't ever choose Harrowmont. He's the worst king Orzammar could ever have had.

And what developments are you talking about, in particular?[/quote]

Ugh, yes. I could never bring myself to choose him yet. Maybe, one day, but likely not an time soon. Even my DN wants Bhelen on the throne -- of course, killing Trina was all about getting both people in Bhelen's way out of the way, even if one of them was himself. Backfired horribly and Dargan was not amused.

And IIRC WH says that the poeple are turning more and more towards Redcliffe for guidance and it may become a rival for Denerim -- it's Redcliffe's desrciption on the world map. That doesn't sound too good, though DA2 -- at least when Alsitair is King -- doesn't follow up on it.

Anora probably has to put up with the occasional rant from her husbad about how he fought an army of Zombies, cleared out a tower full of abominations, found a myth, stabbed a High Dragon through the head and got mind raped by some stupid guardian spirit thing just to save Eamon, his family and his village, and then the ungrateful bastard doesn't even have the decency to support them properly, hmph.


[quote]
Well, I think she understands where he's coming from well enough, if
he's not the one shoving a sword down Loghain's throat so to speak.



If
he does kill him, then she just can't stand to see her father's
murderer all the time. I think the feelings Alistair harbors have little
to do with it really. It's just that she can't stand to look at him
because she'll always remember that moment -- considering it's done
right in front of her and the Landsmeet, which I think is too harsh a
punishment for both Loghain and Anora.



I mean, it'd be one thing
if Loghain went to his death by way of the hangman's noose or did the
Redeemer ending against the Archdemon.



For the former, she doesn't have to witness it. For the other, it's... well... self-explanatory.[/quote]

Indeed. It's one of the reasons I can't bring myself to kill Loghain any more after the first time. I was fully intending to do it with the mage who became Alistair's friend, but then I met Anora at Eamon's after killing Cauthrien and stared at her and said "I can't do it.". So when I go ahead and do the Landsmeet with Evan Loghain will live again. Alistair will just have to deal with becoming a wandering drunk.


[quote]
I tend to stick to the Alistair+Anora gig all the time. Maybe if I do another Human Noble, I'll marry Anora.[/quote]

I think at this point the only thing that would stop me from marrying a Noble to Anora would be them being too committed to one of the LIs or if there Nathaniel were a same sex romance option. Evne my current one will do it, though he doesn't really expect Morrigan to stick around for long after the Blight is over. Won't stop him from running of with her through the Eluvian...

And I can't ever bring myself to marry the two. Apart from my -- apparently unfounded -- concerns about how well it would work (though Dargan, I think, would have similar concerns. He might still arrange the marriage and then say "Screw this, let's just make the politician Queen" when Alistair tries to get Loghain killed.), I don't really want Anora to be stuck with him <.< Alas, my fangirlishness towards her gets in the way of the story. Good thing I can just play characters that wouldn't want to do that anyway.



[quote]
Same here. I always do the DR, though my reasons for doing it are different depending on my origin.
[/quote]

Yup! the only constant is that my characters either romance Morri or are bffs with her, so they usually trust Morrigan.

[quote]SPOILER FOR DAII

buffer zone....

buffer zone...

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buffer....

There's a quest in DAII where you meet King Alistair -- so long as he was made King, anyway -- and he doesn't say anything to lead one to believe him and Anora on the throne has faced any problems with their ruling jointly. In fact, it seems that they're actually very united, considering what King Alistair will tell you about Ferelden's status as of when you meet him. Just as much, Aveline -- a companion in the game -- will state that Alistair is a very popular king in Ferelden.

buffer...

buffer....

buffer...

buffer...

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END SPOILERS.

[/quote]

Ah, as I expected. I heard about that quest, but that's a bit more detail -- I suppose I've really no reason to worry the AlistairxAnora solution might go badly then.

[tklivory]

*Pokes head in after extended absence*

Not that I want to derail any ongoing topics, but for once I have a short piece of fiction that actually applies to Loghain, so... I thought I'd post a link to it...

Once Upon a Time: Loghain (it's nice and short and treats the subject seriously, I promise)

That is all. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of Loghain fanfic, especially with interest in DA:O waning, so... *shrug* I hope some of you read it and enjoy it, at least.

[Costin_Razvan]

I personally still read DA:O Fanfiction, but only stories that I'm commited to already ( like victory at Ostargar ).

Quite frankly most DA:O FF is ****.

[tklivory]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I personally still read DA:O Fanfiction, but only stories that I'm commited to already ( like victory at Ostargar ).

Quite frankly most DA:O FF is ****.

I find most writing (officially published or not) follows the 5% rule (95% bad to middling, 5% worth reading, not that I'm claiming I'm in that 5% ).  Whether or not it is FF...

Modifié par tklivory, 21 juillet 2012 - 02:51 .

[Costin_Razvan]

It's quite a nice speech.

[TEWR]

That was a good read. Definitely felt like something Anora would say in memory of her father and it certainly captures the real spirit of Loghain in Origins.

[tklivory]

 Thanks for the kind words!    One of my favorite relationships is between Anora and Loghain.  I always tear up at his last line in the Landsmeet (on those run throughs where he is killed, depending on my RP): 'Daughters never grow up, Anora.  They remain six years old with pig tails and skinned knees forever.'    Such a beautiful line, and so well delivered.

[TEWR]

[quote]Fiacre wrote...

Ser Otto's death was traumatizing:crying:. That demon was impaled with extreme prejudice shortly afterwards and deserved it, hmph. [/quote]

That was actually one of the moments in Origins that puzzled -- as well as slightly angered -- me. I mean, the angle of the pitchfork indicates that it was floating in the air and came down.

Which means the Warden would've seen it.

So why couldn't I have said "****! Get down!" and pushed Ser Otto out of the way?! I mean come on! It's common sense here! If I did that and he died in battle that'd be one thing, but seriously? I can't do the obvious?



[quote]

Wouldn't she have been found out and brought to the Circle,  though?[/quote]

Not necessarily. Some families keep mage children hidden away and apostates can be found in cities. Indeed, you end up fighting 4 Abominations in the Orphanage, which were Mages at some point.


[quote]Fiacre wrote...
And I always assumed she'd been driven mad by the trauma of that night and that the amulet held a personal significance, so getting it back soothed her. Especially since we don't know the details of that night.[/quote]

Well it is that as well. She tells you that it was her grandmother's amulet, and though she never knew her she always felt like she watched over her when she had that amulet.

As for what happened that night, I'd have to say we do know what happened. It's pretty straightforward really. Howe's men went in, killed anyone that was there whether they be combatants or non-combatants, the Veil was torn, Demons plagued the Alienage and caused the area around it to be affected -- blood that smells of sulphur not congealing, animals going rabid, corpses lingering, etc.



[quote]

true. And it was likely never worth the work... Makes me wonder why the elves go there, especially since Zathrian knew about the werewolves and should have expected an attack sooner or later, and all the demons alone should have been dangerous enough.[/quote]

Well, Dalish Elves can handle Sylvans. Funnily, Marethari managed to scold a Wild Sylvan into walking away in shame.

Or so Merrill says in the short story. But that'd be hilarious if true.

Anyway, Sylvans aren't really that big a deal, considering Zathrian and Velanna both are able to control them. The Werewolves also weren't a big deal, when they were considered mindless. Though he knew of their existence, he didn't think -- and indeed, they hadn't demonstrated really -- they had any true cunning beyond bestial instincts.

Though I would say it would be worth the effort to repair the Veil there. Harder to do certainly, but it's always worth it.

[quote]

And considering how many villains with a convincing Freudian Excuse get labbeled as Complete Monsters Howe really needs something more fitting. (And I should spend less time on tvtropes <.<)[/quote]

TVTropes will ruin your life .

[quote]

Ah, good! I wasn't sure if you'd call it that, but considering it's purpose it's fitting. And since both talk about a place, the boy might have something to do with it, after all... That leaves the ghost in the Orphanage, who likely didn't have anything to do with any elven practices.[/quote]

It also seemed to serve as a Temple to the Creators, given the codex on the Ancient Elven Armor and the altar you pray at.

So combination temple/burial crypt.

As for the Elven ghosts, I imagine that's due to the thin Veil. The exact nature seems to depend on the level of thinness the Veil has in certain areas. Soldier's Peak's Veil was thinned to the point of having old memories replay. And demons managed to slip through due to what Avernus had done with the Veil, and subsequently possessed corpses.

Whereas the ruins in the Dalish Elf Origin had a thin Veil that allowed for demons to possess corpses.

And The Silent Grove comic also points to ghosts in a way. I won't give off any spoilers though.




[quote]Thinking about it, the dwarfen ghosts could be two differnt things entirely, due the one in the Deep Roads being labeled Restless/Forgotten/whatever else Spririts and hostile, while the ones in Kal'Hirol seemed like... images from the past. The elven ghosts seem more like the former, provided the boy in the ruins actually noticed you and ran away because of you.[/quote]

Indeed. Kal'Hirol's are more memories like that of Soldier's Peak. The Memories of the Stone, if you'll recall.

Perhaps the ghosts of the Dwarven thaigs were hostile because they couldn't accept death, and continued on as spectral remnants of themselves so as to continue fighting Darkspawn? But then after so long, all they remembered was the anger and wrath they directed at Orzammar's enemies, that they couldn't think logically anymore?

Who knows really. I doubt they were rejected by the Stone, given that they seem to have died facing the Darkspawn in defense of the thaig, which would lead one to assume they were worthy of being part of it.



[quote]

It's mostly the lore that interests me, anyway, Ive heard enough negatie opinons about it not to expect some awesome game on DAO's level. It's just a bit bothersome to aways wonder if maybe DA2 answered any of my questions and if I read *everything* on the wiki beforehand it might not be as fun when I do play it. I've spoiled myself a lot as is. Apparently there's also some interesting stuff regarding the dwarves, Sandal's cryptic prohpecy sounds terribly intriguing and also, Flemeth. I've always wondered if she had anything to do with Sarim Cousland, since he was Conobar's guard captain and took over after Flemeth supposedly killed Conobar. And she's generally one of the most interesting characters in DA.[/quote]

Flemeth has a few moments in DAII, it's true. Her look was revamped and it's awesome IMO. Lorewise, it even fits that her look is different.

Her comments are pretty interesting, and you can engage with some humor with her.

Flemeth's always awesome.


[quote]

Ugh, yes. I could never bring myself to choose him yet. Maybe, one day, but likely not an time soon. Even my DN wants Bhelen on the throne -- of course, killing Trina was all about getting both people in Bhelen's way out of the way, even if one of them was himself. Backfired horribly and Dargan was not amused.[/quote]

Truthfully, I feel that Dwarf Nobles should've been able to take the throne of Orzammar if they so desired, as the lore and history of the fortress city provides a myriad of reasons why this is possible -- and in line with the game -- yet no reasons why it's not.

It angers me, as I consider Bhelen a hack compared to Xanthos Aeducan. Bhelen's ideas were taken straight out of Xanthos' playbook.

But because Xanthos can't take the throne, he settles for Bhelen knowing he should be king. He doesn't agree with Bhelen's decision regarding the Harrowmont family though, as at that point Harrowmont was behind Bhelen all the way -- making Bhelen's first act as King seem nothing more then a petty act of revenge.

Harrowmont said he can't defy a Paragon. By logical deduction, Harrowmont would begrudgingly support Bhelen's acts as King -- especially if Branka was okay with them, considering Bhelen and Branka were sending missives to each other. And I'm certain Branka would be okay with the Casteless fighting the Darkspawn.

 

[quote]And IIRC WH says that the poeple are turning more and more towards Redcliffe for guidance and it may become a rival for Denerim -- it's Redcliffe's desrciption on the world map. That doesn't sound too good, though DA2 -- at least when Alsitair is King -- doesn't follow up on it. [/quote]

Ah yes, I remember that now. You're right, DAII doesn't really follow up on it, so I guess it's no longer something to be considered.



[quote]Anora probably has to put up with the occasional rant from her husbad about how he fought an army of Zombies, cleared out a tower full of abominations, found a myth, stabbed a High Dragon through the head and got mind raped by some stupid guardian spirit thing just to save Eamon, his family and his village, and then the ungrateful bastard doesn't even have the decency to support them properly, hmph.[/quote]



I'm sure if the Redcliffe thing is still an issue, Anora's either using it to her advantage or making sure to subtly defeat it before it threatens her authority.

[Fiacre]

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
That was actually one of the moments in Origins that puzzled -- as well
as slightly angered -- me. I mean, the angle of the pitchfork indicates
that it was floating in the air and came down.

Which means the Warden would've seen it.

So
why couldn't I have said "****! Get down!" and pushed Ser Otto out of
the way?! I mean come on! It's common sense here! If I did that and he
died in battle that'd be one thing, but seriously? I can't do the
obvious?
[/quote]

I suppose one could put it down to shock. Or maybe the demon was just too fast for a reaction.


[quote]

Not necessarily. Some families keep mage children hidden away and
apostates can be found in cities. Indeed, you end up fighting 4
Abominations in the Orphanage, which were Mages at some point.
[/quote]

I suppose they might have managed to hide her... One can only be glad she didn't get possessed then. And the abominations could have been small children whose talent hadn't yet showed itself. ...Which somehow makes it even more horrible.

[quote]Fiacre wrote...
Well it is that as well. She tells you that it was her grandmother's
amulet, and though she never knew her she always felt like she watched
over her when she had that amulet.

As for what happened that
night, I'd have to say we do know what happened. It's pretty
straightforward really. Howe's men went in, killed anyone that was there
whether they be combatants or non-combatants, the Veil was torn, Demons
plagued the Alienage and caused the area around it to be affected --
blood that smells of sulphur not congealing, animals going rabid,
corpses lingering, etc.[/quote]

We know what happened, but we don't know details of what happened to her specifically -- if she was wounded, perhaps even raped, if she saw people close to her die (likely, but she theoretically could have been a loner with no friends) etc.  Unless she tells you about it and I just never got that dialogue. I've only done the quest twice yet, so I might have missed somethings she said.


[quote]
Well, Dalish Elves can handle Sylvans. Funnily, Marethari managed to scold a Wild Sylvan into walking away in shame.

Or so Merrill says in the short story. But that'd be hilarious if true.

Anyway,
Sylvans aren't really that big a deal, considering Zathrian and Velanna
both are able to control them. The Werewolves also weren't a big deal,
when they were considered mindless. Though he knew of their existence,
he didn't think -- and indeed, they hadn't demonstrated really -- they
had any true cunning beyond bestial instincts.

Though I would say it would be worth the effort to repair the Veil there. Harder to do certainly, but it's always worth it.
[/quote]

Really? That *is* hilarious Go, Marethari!

Hmm, right the Keepers/mages can control the Sylvans. But even as mindless beasts the werewolves could have attacked them. It seems like a needless risk somehow, especially since you're warned about how dangerous the forest is and Zathrian is still not convinced that they've regained their minds. (So are some of my PCs :/ Swiftrunner, how you keep dooming your people by threatening people that you really shouldn't threaten. My most used "evil" solution to a quest. ...I'm horrible.)

Is there something there in the forest they need, though? I suppose the trees themselves are a valuable resource, but I don't think they'll bother unless they run out of wood.

[quote]TVTropes will ruin your life [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie].[/quote]

At least it's fun while it does that

[quote]
It also seemed to serve as a Temple to the Creators, given the codex on the Ancient Elven Armor and the altar you pray at.

So combination temple/burial crypt.

As
for the Elven ghosts, I imagine that's due to the thin Veil. The exact
nature seems to depend on the level of thinness the Veil has in certain
areas. Soldier's Peak's Veil was thinned to the point of having old
memories replay. And demons managed to slip through due to what Avernus
had done with the Veil, and subsequently possessed corpses.

Whereas the ruins in the Dalish Elf Origin had a thin Veil that allowed for demons to possess corpses.

And The Silent Grove comic also points to ghosts in a way. I won't give off any spoilers though.
[/quote]

Soldiers Peak even gets likened to the Circle Tower, but not the Brecilian Ruins -- so tears through magic, akin to what Avernus and Uldred have done, seem to be different than the veil thinning due to bloodshed.

What I find odd about the DE origin is that apparently the ruins were unknown, despite the eves coming to the forset so often... And Zathrian knew about the ones the werewolves lived in. And shouldn't they try to find out everything they can from those ruins?


[quote]Indeed. Kal'Hirol's are more memories like that of Soldier's Peak. The Memories of the Stone, if you'll recall.

Perhaps the ghosts of the Dwarven thaigs were hostile because they couldn't accept death, and continued on as spectral remnants of themselves so as to continue fighting Darkspawn? But then after so long, all they remembered was the anger and wrath they directed at Orzammar's enemies, that they couldn't think logically anymore?

Who knows really. I doubt they were rejected by the Stone, given that they seem to have died facing the Darkspawn in defense of the thaig, which would lead one to assume they were worthy of being part of it.[/quote]

Do they say anything more about the Stone in DA2? I've already caved and ordered the XBox 360 version last night, so it's not like have to avoid hearing about interesting bits any more to resist... I hope they'll elaborate about these things in future games. DA has some really interesting lore that is easy to get into.

And there are also the Legionnaire Spirits in Bownammar, that only attack after you take the key from the altar.

[quote]Flemeth has a few moments in DAII, it's true. Her look was revamped and
it's awesome IMO. Lorewise, it even fits that her look is different.

Her comments are pretty interesting, and you can engage with some humor with her.

Flemeth's always awesome.[/quote]

I've seen that! She'd become a very attractive old woman c:

And I once got so bored that I decided to screw around and make a character that *is* Sarim and knows her, just reborn. Which makes absolutely no sense at all lore-wise, but it gave me an excuse to make a White Haired Pretty Boy and he's surprisingly fun to play. And the conversation with Flemeth at the beginning were even *more* awesome that way.

[quote]Truthfully, I feel that Dwarf Nobles should've been able to take the
throne of Orzammar if they so desired, as the lore and history of the
fortress city provides a myriad of reasons why this is possible -- and
in line with the game -- yet no reasons why it's not.

It angers
me, as I consider Bhelen a hack compared to Xanthos Aeducan. Bhelen's
ideas were taken straight out of Xanthos' playbook.

But because
Xanthos can't take the throne, he settles for Bhelen knowing he should
be king. He doesn't agree with Bhelen's decision regarding the
Harrowmont family though, as at that point Harrowmont was behind Bhelen
all the way -- making Bhelen's first act as King seem nothing more then a
petty act of revenge.

Harrowmont said he can't defy a Paragon.
By logical deduction, Harrowmont would begrudgingly support Bhelen's
acts as King -- especially if Branka was okay with them, considering
Bhelen and Branka were sending missives to each other. And I'm certain
Branka would be okay with the Casteless fighting the Darkspawn.[/quote]

That would have been awesome, especially since the Human Noble can get on the throne, even if it's just as a Consort (though for some even that is not enough...).

I played Dargan as thinking that Bhelen has more potential than him, which is ehy he wants him on the throne. He probably won't be amused with Harrowmont's execution, partly because of what you said and partly because that's just one more thing to feel guilty about regarding this mess.

I'm not sure Harrowmont's supporters would have actually stopped had Harrowmont lived, though. They might have still tried to attack Bhelen simply because he's too progressive for them and he might have come to the conclusion that without Harrowmont alive, at least some would have decided to give up. Still, I think Anora's decision made more sense, since people could have more easily used him than Harrowmontt.


[quote]Ah yes, I remember that now. You're right, DAII doesn't really follow up on it, so I guess it's no longer something to be considered.[/quote]

I kind of hope they do somewhre down the line if Eamon is not Chancellor or a least Alistair not King. It could make for an interesting plot.

[quote]


I'm sure if the Redcliffe thing is still an issue, Anora's either using it to her advantage or making sure to subtly defeat it before it threatens her authority.
[/quote]

I can just imagine the conversation. "That little bastard! After all I have done for him, fighting Undead and Abominations and-" "Husband?" "...Yes?" "Shut up." "...:c" "And don't pout."

But yes, Anora might deal with it before it does become a problem.

[TEWR]

I'm honestly surprised this thread went a whole month without anything new.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yea, it's somewhat painful, I have good memories of this thread.

Well I have been playing Legacy of Kain games and as you know Kain is voiced by Simon Templeman. That's awesome.

[Ulicus]

Vae victis!

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yea, it's somewhat painful, I have good memories of this thread.

Well I have been playing Legacy of Kain games and as you know Kain is voiced by Simon Templeman. That's awesome.

Haven't played them, sadly, though I've heard great things about the series. 

On a Simon Templeman note, he voices Judge Zargabaath in Final Fantasy XII. Zargaabath is essentially another Loghain, though without all of the mistakes along the way. A patriot, a hero, a badass, and whatnot.

Actually, you could make a case that Zargabaath has made mistakes along the way. Just not quite as apparent or maybe even as severe as Loghain's.

God, do I love Final Fantasy XII. It's incredibly political.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 06 septembre 2012 - 05:56 .

[tklivory]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Haven't played them, sadly, though I've heard great things about the series. 

On a Simon Templeman note, he voices Judge Zargabaath in Final Fantasy XII. Zargaabath is essentially another Loghain, though without all of the mistakes along the way. A patriot, a hero, a badass, and whatnot.

Actually, you could make a case that Zargabaath has made mistakes along the way. Just not quite as apparent or maybe even as severe as Loghain's.

God, do I love Final Fantasy XII. It's incredibly political.

And yet all people can talk about is whether or not they liked the gambit system. (well, not *everybody*, but most of the target demographic, that I could tell). I loved the political interactions between the countries, the maneuverings of the Judges and Vayne and the Marquis and Cid and who got killed and who survived and who killed who...  Stuff I wish was in other games. The dyanmics between Baasch and Gabranth alone were wonderful in that regard. Not perfect, but damn fun.

I actually knew someone who wouldn't play it because 'they pronounced Marquis wrong'. <_< Seriously?

[TEWR]

tklivory wrote...

I loved the political interactions between the countries, the maneuverings of the Judges and Vayne and the Marquis and Cid and who got killed and who survived and who killed who...  Stuff I wish was in other games. The dyanmics between Baasch and Gabranth alone were wonderful in that regard. Not perfect, but damn fun.

I love all of those things you mentioned -- snipped what I said before just to not be so spoilerific to KoP.

The Judges were well done as well. Bergan, Zargabaath, Drace, Gabranth, Zecht. Ghis was kinda meh. He was a bit cunning, but I wasn't too much of a fan of his character.

And then how Vayne manipulates the political spectrum to achieve his ends! It's amazingly done.

Seriously, I think FFXII was probably one of the best Final Fantasy games ever made. If I had to rank FFX, FFXII, and FFXIII in order of most loved, I'm not sure where I'd stand. I enjoy them all so much, and the characters greatly. But FFXII was definitely, without a doubt, the most political Final Fantasy game ever done and it was well done.

KoP, I remember you stated you don't play JRPGs. I also remember I said you'd like this game. I'd like to echo those thoughts here. This is one JRPG I think you'd greatly enjoy for how it handles politics, even if you can't control how the story progresses or the protagonist very much.

Interestingly, did you know tklivory that Basch was originally intended to be the main protagonist, but Vaan was quickly added in at the last minute due to fear of how well the game would sell with a protagonist that was considerably older then those of other games in the franchise? There was only one time that an older protagonist was used before IIRC, and its sales were damaged because of that fact.

I actually knew someone who wouldn't play it because 'they pronounced Marquis wrong'.  Seriously?

That seems like a really silly reason to not play a game. Personally, I've heard it pronounced a few ways and they all seemed fine to me.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 septembre 2012 - 04:32 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yea I remember, I might play it, but right now I am focusing on classics like Deus Ex and eventually Planescape Torment.

I generally don't like to be spoiled, but when I hesitate to play, I don't mind spoilers. So if you can pelase give me a brief synopsis of the plot and the themes explored? That would be great. Cause I'd rather not play a game that would ****** me off, I'm generally in a good mood these days and would like to keep it that way haha

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:34 .

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yea I remember, I might play it, but right now I am focusing on classics like Deus Ex and eventually Planescape Torment.

I generally don't like to be spoiled, but when I hesitate to play, I don't mind spoilers. So if you can pelase give me a brief synopsis of the plot and the themes explored? That would be great. Cause I'd rather not play a game that would ****** me off, I'm generally in a good mood these days and would like to keep it that way haha

 sure thing.

I'll try to be not so spoilerific, but here's what it generally explores:

You start off the game fighting in a war launched by the neighboring nation to Dalmasca, Archadia. The Archadians are swiftly defeating the tiny nations of Dalmasca and Nabradia -- who have entered a political marriage. Things do not bode well.

It's a brief experience, but it does set a lot of the story and setting up. In addition, parts of the game are narrated.

Years later, you begin playing as Vaan. At first, you're just trying to stick it to the man, and you experience firsthand Vayne Solidor's speech as the new Consul of Rabanastre, capital of Dalmasca. For the record, Vayne Solidor is the heir to House Solidor, the ruling family of Archadia. And I think you'd like him.

As the story progresses, you end up fighting for independence, dealing with some very heavy themes like an impending war on the horizon with Rozarria -- Archadia's enemy nation, though it's briefly explored as it's not the main premise. There's also political manipulations, loyalty to one's country, family, revenge, and many other themes explored.

I don't want to spoil too much, but I'll be honest on this front: the supernatural does play a part in the story, but it doesn't overtake the story. It's used in a way that it's an asset to what's going on IMO. Sort of like how Loghain isn't controlled by the Blight, but it does influence how he's acting in the game. Sort-of. It's not quite like that I think, but I believe that is a decent comparison on how FFXII handles it.

Hmm... here's a better snippet from FFXII's TVTropes page:

Final Fantasy XII is a complicated and detailed game noticeably different in storyline from other Final Fantasy games. Whilst other games focus on individual characters, XII is less about people and more a story of nations and nationalism, of intrigue and deception. It's full of interweaving stories, tactical team-based fighting and well-crafted dialogue. It explores the ideas of freedom, revenge, loyalty, peace and the importance of dreams.

But don't go to the TVtropes page for more information. If you're like me on other pages, you'll want to highlight everything that's a spoiler just to complete the sentences as you read them . Then a lot of the game's awesomeness might be diminished, if not ruined.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 septembre 2012 - 04:29 .