phaonica wrote...
I can't find where those sound files or the dialog might have come from. I didn't find them packaged in the non-english sound folders, and I don't see any of the dialog in the talk tables, either.
It would be hilarious to hear Simon T give you the "talk" wouldnt it?Zjarcal wrote...
Well, the voicework on that video seems very real to me. And Loghain does address Alistair in one of his lines, so it is indeed dialogue that involves both of them being in the party at the same time.
Oh, how much more awesome would the game had been with the option of recruiting Loghain early (and keep Alistair with the party for extra banter).
Persephone wrote...
phaonica wrote...
I can't find where those sound files or the dialog might have come from. I didn't find them packaged in the non-english sound folders, and I don't see any of the dialog in the talk tables, either.
WEIRD. I LOVE Youtube now. My offer stands though: I'll send you the vids, if you like.
Modifié par EnchantedEyes1, 17 septembre 2010 - 06:26 .
Modifié par phaonica, 17 septembre 2010 - 07:27 .
Thats the way I understood what DG said as well.Addai67 wrote...
I read the thread in question, but understood DG to be saying that he didn't make the final decision to leave until he saw the beacon. He had thought about it and even planned for the possibility but didn't really decide to do it until that moment.
Neither side can honestly say we know ironclad a) Loghain made a tactical decision period, orLoghain made a political decision and the tactical was just an excuse.
Alistair in the party and not Loghain
Alistair: Poor bastard. Cailan was lacking as king, but who deserves this? And Loghain honors Maric by killing his son? Makes me sick.
Neither Alistair nor Loghain in the Party
Wynne: The death that perhaps most complicated your task, Warden. Cailan tried his best, despite the forces against him.
Leliana: I don't want to see anyone like this.
Morrigan: This is what matters to so many? The wild places did not mark his fall.
Sten: A lesson in examining your allies far more carefully than your enemies.
Zevran: Crude. Go to the trouble of killing a king, you'd think you'd want to see his face.
Ogren: Not sorry I missed this. No king of mine, but still enough to put me off my drink.
Dog: (Sad whine)
Modifié par phaonica, 17 septembre 2010 - 08:03 .
Sarah1281 wrote...
That is kind of amusing when you think about it. Anora gives you Gwaren and you...don't violently kill her father.So I think secretly attempting to spare him as an engagement present makes another good supporting reason.
phaonica wrote...
jpdipity wrote...
phaonica wrote...
MariSkep wrote...
That's the point. If a writer can say 'this is what it is' then every passage that contradicts that point (regardless of how many there are) or some meaningful part of the story someone else discovered just became meaningless. Not to mention, if it's not in the story it's not in the story.
In the extreme, I might see your point. But the Word of God we're considering here is contradicting something that was in the VO notes (which already is outside-the-game information). I don't find DGs info about Loghain's decision to leave occuring right when the beacon was lit to contradict anything that is presented in the game.
Personally, I think it contradicts the tone and facial expressions projected by Loghain as he was leaving the War Council & the info we are told about Loghain's ability to see the battlefield which is in-the-game information. Based on how Loghain talked at that moment while leaving the Council, I knew he was up to something nefarious. I'm not sure how that scene could possibly be intrepreted any other way.
It's true that even the first time I saw that scene, I thought to myself "he's up to something, and it doesn't sound good". However, I think that he could have considered the decision and second guessed and reconsidered and whatever all the way up to the beacon being lit when he took action. His tone and body language at the end of the war council could still be presented the same way even if he was still considering and reconsidering.
Spartas Husky wrote...
Foolish man who is overly patriotic and short sighted. A man who does not learn from history is an idiot, and he is certainly one. Whether from ambition or "patriotism" he is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands. How many families wont see their beloved just because he wanted Cailen dead. He didn't do it himself because he is a coward, a calculating bastard.
I am glad to spare him, death is too good and short for him. What better than to live in paranoia amongst Orlesian grey wardens, to be treated as a bag boy amongst the grey wardens.
When I saw him get sent to Orlais I was laughing... poetic justice... live the rest of your life outside your damn beloved country surrounded by those you call enemies... on top of it, always being hated for the death of many grey wardens.... sigh like the old saying goes:
"the best punishment is to remember the glory days while living in misery"
At that point it's entirely possible that Celene was still in Denerim and peeved about Cailan dying before they could get married so...That would have been really interesting but I do wonder how this would have worked for the rest of the story - if you could recruit Loghain earlier and keep Alistair, who would have been the main antagonist? Not the darkspawn surely... THE ORLESIANS?! A-ha!
Is that surprising? Showing regret for his actions at the Landsmeet would tacitly admit that he was wrong and if he does that then it's practically guarenteed that the other side of the civil war was right and he's giong to lose.Interesting to hear how much regret Loghain has towards his actions at Ostagar. This gives a very different view of his character than the posturing he does at the landsmeet.
Giggles_Manically wrote...
One thing that people miss about Loghain, those who dont spare them that is, is that if you dont take the DR Loghain tells you that he was wrong, that he did screw up, and he begs you to let him sacrifice his very soul to save his country that he nearly destroyed.
Take it however you want it, but in that scene I gained a lot of respect for him, and in that last moment the real Loghain emerged out from under the years of paranoia and madness. To bad many people will never see that.
Yeah the first time I spared Loghain I was iffy on it until the end.Zjarcal wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
One thing that people miss about Loghain, those who dont spare them that is, is that if you dont take the DR Loghain tells you that he was wrong, that he did screw up, and he begs you to let him sacrifice his very soul to save his country that he nearly destroyed.
Take it however you want it, but in that scene I gained a lot of respect for him, and in that last moment the real Loghain emerged out from under the years of paranoia and madness. To bad many people will never see that.
I agree.
The "please, I've done so much wrong, let me done one thing right before I die" line almost tears me up.
He does show regret at the LM. He often says things like "whatever I have done, I'll answer to the Maker for" etc.Axekix wrote...
Interesting to hear how much regret Loghain has towards his actions at Ostagar. This gives a very different view of his character than the posturing he does at the landsmeet.
Thanks for finding those, phaonica. It's interesting that that every party member has a line. Going back to the battlefield would have been an interesting plot line.phaonica wrote...
Ok, I tested the dialog file.
the filename is
lite_ost_cailan_corpse.dlg
And it seems to work mostly ok. It has some problems and you can tell the file is unfinished. I used console commands to have Loghain and Alistair in my group at the same time, and the conversation fired mostly like it should, VOs and all. The other party member also have single extra lines, but I didn't test them out yet (they only fire if neither Alistair nor Loghain is in the active party.)Alistair in the party and not Loghain
Alistair: Poor bastard. Cailan was lacking as king, but who deserves this? And Loghain honors Maric by killing his son? Makes me sick.
Neither Alistair nor Loghain in the Party
Wynne: The death that perhaps most complicated your task, Warden. Cailan tried his best, despite the forces against him.
Leliana: I don't want to see anyone like this.
Morrigan: This is what matters to so many? The wild places did not mark his fall.
Sten: A lesson in examining your allies far more carefully than your enemies.
Zevran: Crude. Go to the trouble of killing a king, you'd think you'd want to see his face.
Ogren: Not sorry I missed this. No king of mine, but still enough to put me off my drink.
Dog: (Sad whine)
That was... callous, even for you. You don't have to forgive someone to show them mercy. But then again we'll never agree that his crimes aren't worth his death, or that he's a better asset than Alistair.Addai67 wrote...
He does show regret at the LM. He often says things like "whatever I have done, I'll answer to the Maker for" etc.
Too little too late, pal.
Axekix wrote...
Interesting to hear how much regret Loghain has towards his actions at Ostagar. This gives a very different view of his character than the posturing he does at the landsmeet.
Addai67 wrote...
He does show regret at the LM. He often says things like "whatever I have done, I'll answer to the Maker for" etc.Axekix wrote...
Interesting to hear how much regret Loghain has towards his actions at Ostagar. This gives a very different view of his character than the posturing he does at the landsmeet.
Too little too late, pal.
Yeah, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the powerful who claw their way to power on the blood of innocent people and then say "oops, I'm sorry, the Maker will forgive me."Persephone wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
He does show regret at the LM. He often says things like "whatever I have done, I'll answer to the Maker for" etc.Axekix wrote...
Interesting to hear how much regret Loghain has towards his actions at Ostagar. This gives a very different view of his character than the posturing he does at the landsmeet.
Too little too late, pal.
No offense but that wasn't only condescending but downright CALLOUS. I won't go into detail, but even for someone who seems to see nothing good in the man, that was below the belt. (Pun intended)
Addai67 wrote...
Yeah, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the powerful who claw their way to power on the blood of innocent people and then say "oops, I'm sorry, the Maker will forgive me."Persephone wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
He does show regret at the LM. He often says things like "whatever I have done, I'll answer to the Maker for" etc.Axekix wrote...
Interesting to hear how much regret Loghain has towards his actions at Ostagar. This gives a very different view of his character than the posturing he does at the landsmeet.
Too little too late, pal.
No offense but that wasn't only condescending but downright CALLOUS. I won't go into detail, but even for someone who seems to see nothing good in the man, that was below the belt. (Pun intended)
I think Loghain is a tragic figure, just save my sympathy for his victims.
Modifié par Persephone, 17 septembre 2010 - 04:43 .
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