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Whatever is the root cause for the arguing about Intel's poor video chips?


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#1
Gorath Alpha

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I see it often, and don't understand it.  There seem to be some people who want games dumbed-down to suit their poor (low quality) chips, instead of admitting they want to be too cheap / short-sighted to buy game-capable hardware.  Only AMD and nVIDIA are supported by game developers, period.  All you get for Intel is pity, not help, there's just nothing that will turn those raggedy pig's ears into flying silk purses..  The official game requirements for Bioware's games are / were often rather GOOFY, but never included Intel.  NEVER. No patch for those is coming.

The worst part of it is that the requirements are really very generous, IMO.

Dragon Age: Origins -- requirements (always needed edits, IMO) 

Here are the minimum requirements for XP and Vista and the recommended system requirements.

Windows XP Minimum Specifications
OS: Windows XP with SP3
CPU: Intel Core 2 Single (or equivalent) running at 1.6Ghz or greater
AMD 64 (or equivalent) running at 2.0Ghz or greater
RAM: 1 GB or more
DVD ROM (Physical copy)
20 GB HD space
Video: ATI Radeon X850 256MB or greater (this is clearly wrong)
NVIDIA GeForce "6600 GT" 128MB or greater (and this one is more wrong)

(Note: IMO, the practical choices for the two video cards above should be the Radeon X800 Pro, and the Geforce 6800 GS, at least, for small textures - it will take a Radeon X1650 XT (or X1800 GTO) for medium or better textures)

INTEL'S GARBAGE IS NOT SUPPORTED
 
Windows Vista/Windows 7 Minimum Specifications
OS: Windows Vista with SP1, Windows 7
CPU: Intel Core 2 Single (or equivalent) running at 1.6Ghz or greater
AMD 64 (or equivalent) running at 2.0Ghz or greater
RAM: 1.5 GB or more
Video: ATI Radeon  X1650 XT, since the 1550 is only a renamed X1300
http://www.gpureview...1=472&card2=385
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB or greater
DVD ROM (Physical copy)
20 GB HD space

Recommended Specifications
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz Processor or equivalent
AMD Phenom II X2 Dual-Core 2.7 GHz or greater
RAM: 2 GB (XP) or 3 GB (Windows Vista/Windows 7)
Video: ATI 3850 512 MB or greater
NVIDIA 8800GTS 512 MB or greater
DVD ROM (Physical copy)
20 GB HD space

Admittedly, this is a moving target during 2010 / 2011.

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 07 janvier 2012 - 02:53 .


#2
Gorath Alpha

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JackM wrote...

Created about 2 hours ago, Modified about 2 hours ago

This is Intel Mobile Graphic that cannot be used to run DA:O (see the Vista/7 minimum requirements here: http://dragonage.bioware.com/game/faq/). I really do not understand how you were able to run this game under Vista which such a graphic card.

I think it may amount a a disservice to the beginners to use the common, but misleading terminology to describe the crap.  Intel made one video "card" back about 1997 or 1998, and it was just crap, same as all of their chips always turn out to be.  They are not cards at all.  A card, by definition, is a daughter board on a separate circuit board that attaches to the motherboard after both have completed their production processes. 

Other than the i3. i5, and i7 multi-cored CPUs that have an included chip inside the package, Intel's video silicon is just another part inside of a large chip called an ASIC.  An Intel chipset consists of two such large chips.  The colloquial names for them are "Northbridge" and "Southbridge".  They were never designed for games, and Intel has almost no interest in game players as a group.  They have expressed an interest in matching what the ATI and nVIDIA graphics products can do, and wasted hundreds of millions of dollars on dead ends that failed to reach their goals. 

In early 2011, Intel's Sandy Bridge has raised the bar for CPU performance another notch beyond what is needed by the game players (we have been beyond the limit for a couple of years at least now, until the next generation of consoles finally arrives).  The graphics side of the Sandy Bridge equation is more of about the same as we saw for the "better" of those piggy-backed video chips inside of the i3, i5, & i7 CPU packages. 

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 30 janvier 2011 - 10:30 .


#3
ladydesire

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Heck, even online games (and by this I mean MMOs) don't support Intel's integrated nonsense; most of the ones I've tried in the past require a "real" video card. I think sometimes people get lucky with them (Intel integrate video chipsets) and think because it worked once, it should always work. Another possibility is that people that switch from a console version of a game to the PC version probably don't have the knowledge of PC hardware that many longtime PC gamers do and don't want to admit it.

#4
JackM

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@Gorath
You're really pernickety. OK, sorry, I'll not do it again. I'll write down "graphic chipset" 1000 times in my text editor.

Modifié par JackM, 16 août 2010 - 02:40 .


#5
Gorath Alpha

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As long as there are some nits to pick, let's include an "s" in PerSnickety. 

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/persnickety

JackM wrote...

@Gorath
You're really pernickety. OK, sorry, I'll not do it again. I'll write down "graphic chipset" 1000 times in my text editor.

There is a new proposal about babying these things along in here once again.  I reiterate that Intel chip fanatics haven't a leg to stand on. 

It's not here yet, but according to Anand Lal Shimpi, the name-holder for the AnandTech web site, there will soon be a still further version of the i5 / i7 series of processors, in which the included onboard video gets ratcheted upward a still further notch by giving it access to the cache RAM used by the CPU cores.  It's still not going to be a gaming capable device, but it may just finally reach the standard set by the ATI Radeon HD 4200 onboard chip (which I had expected would have been replaced before now, although it has not been, after all -- edited February, 2012). 

Intel's chipset video chips have been produced in a wide variety lately, however, until about three, I think, years ago, all of them lacked several very basic functions that gaming CARDS began featuring ten or twelve years ago, after nVIDIA's first "Riva" cards arrived on the scene, when they included a Textures and Lighting unit internally.

Even when the Intel 3100X Chipset chip appeared, it took Intel eighteen months or so to activate all its functions in their drivers.  And many of the producers of laptops in particular, have continued buying the older and less expensive chipset pairs instead, so that brand new mobile computer devices still have the same stone age video (and the Atom has not been matched up to any recent Intel video chips, so Netbooks have remained in the same primitive state).

When the "i" series of Intel Core Duo Multicore CPUs began to appear, they had an upgraded version of the very latest chipset chip riding along piggyback inside of the processor's packaging, where it did not share any of the large RAM cache, but for the first time in all history, was competitive in raw speed with Chipset chips from real graphics engineers at AMD and nVIDIA.  That does not mean the i-CPUs can be used for gaming without truly HUGE compromises, however, as is also true of the AMD and nVIDIA Chipset video chips.

With Sandy Bridge, most of the improvement has gone into the actual CPU side, where some 10-20% of added efficiency has been achieved.  However, instead of merely being a separate device riding along, the video support in Sandy Bridge is supposed to have been fully integrated into CPU functioning, giving it new advantages it didn't have while piggy-backing (it's still essentially the same relatively crude video device, however).

Therefore, this does *NOT* mean it is a game-capable option, unless the game settings are seriously crippled to allow it to be used.  According Anand Tech's tests, it is as fast for some things as the Radeon HD 4200 / 4250 pair of Chipset video chips that formerly held the top rank among the onboard video crowd, and even matches AMD's least capable HD 5n00 real card (a poor card for certain), the 5450, on some benchmarks.

The biggest news out of CES 2011 for game players (IMO) is that Microsoft will support ARM, and that nVIDIA is building its own ARM processor, so it won't be left behind by AMD's Fusion (which blows past Sandy Bridge, with better battery life, less waste heat, and better video graphics).


Gorath
-

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 09 février 2012 - 06:47 .


#6
JackM

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Gorath Alpha wrote...

As long as there are some nits to pick, let's include an "s" in PerSnickety. 

Gorath

Sorry but I've learnt English, so no S for me.

Modifié par JackM, 02 septembre 2010 - 04:53 .


#7
Lord of Fangs

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Gorath Alpha wrote...
It's not here yet, but according to Anand Lal Shimpi, the name-holder for the AndandTech web site,


As long as there are some nits to pick, let's not include an extra "d" in Anandtech.

www.anandtech.com/

#8
Guest_Dalira Montanti_*

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Gorath Alpha wrote...

I see it often, and don't understand it.  They want games dumbed-down to suit their crap chips, instead of admitting they are too cheap / ignorant to buy game-capable hardware.  Only ATI and nVIDIA are supported, period.  All you get for Intel is pity, not help, there's nothing that will turn those pig's ears into flying silk purses..  The official game requirements are / were GOOFY, but never included Intel.  NEVER. 

Dragon Age: Origins -- requirements (always needed edits, IMO) 

Here are the minimum requirements for XP and Vista and the recommended system requirements.

Windows XP Minimum Specifications
OS: Windows XP with SP3
CPU: Intel Core 2 Single (or equivalent) running at 1.6Ghz or greater
AMD 64 (or equivalent) running at 2.0Ghz or greater
RAM: 1 GB or more
DVD ROM (Physical copy)
20 GB HD space
Video: ATI Radeon X850 256MB or greater (this is clearly wrong)
NVIDIA GeForce "6600 GT" 128MB or greater (and this one is more wrong)

(Note: IMO, the practical choices for the two video cards above should be the Radeon X800 Pro, and the Geforce 6800 GS, at least, for small textures - it will take a Radeon X1650 XT (or X1800 GTO) for medium or better textures)

INTEL'S GARBAGE IS NOT SUPPORTED
 
Windows Vista/Windows 7 Minimum Specifications
OS: Windows Vista with SP1, Windows 7
CPU: Intel Core 2 Single (or equivalent) running at 1.6Ghz or greater
AMD 64 (or equivalent) running at 2.0Ghz or greater
RAM: 1.5 GB or more
Video: ATI Radeon "X1550" 256MB or greater (this is OBVIOUSLY wrong)
(*VERY* stupid here, -- should be the X1650 XT, since the 1550 is only a renamed X1300)
http://www.gpureview...1=472&card2=385
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB or greater
DVD ROM (Physical copy)
20 GB HD space

Recommended Specifications
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz Processor or equivalent
AMD Phenom II X2 Dual-Core 2.7 GHz or greater
RAM: 2 GB (XP) or 3 GB (Windows Vista/Windows 7)
Video: ATI 3850 512 MB or greater
NVIDIA 8800GTS 512 MB or greater
DVD ROM (Physical copy)
20 GB HD space

well not everyone has the money to upgrade there stuffles sorry to burst ur bubble sparky but its da truuuthles
video cards and whatnot dont come cheap even if u are a student so most of these noobs as u call them might be under paied students :o

#9
CrustyCat

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Here's my meanie opinion.  If you don't have an adequate pc, or don't know if you have an adequate pc, stay with the console version if you have one.  I'm sure most you kids out there have a console.  :D

#10
Gorath Alpha

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Lord of Fangs wrote...

Gorath Alpha wrote...
It's not here yet, but according to Anand Lal Shimpi, the name-holder for the AndandTech web site,


As long as there are some nits to pick, let's not include an extra "d" in Anandtech.

www.anandtech.com/

Noted.  Mea Culpa.  Corrected. 

#11
Gorath Alpha

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If it's current anywhere on the Social Forums, I haven't seen it, but the Fallout and Skyrim forums at Bethesda have seen a renewal of complaints along the lines covered in this article.  I suppose the recent release of the Sandy Bridge processor generation from Intel has prompted it.  However, the graphics side of that equation really doesn't represent any quantum jump for Intel's video quality at all.  It's the compute side that got the major improvement. 

What has come up, and I already have updated a somewhat similarly oriented article / message thread, is another low-end system that formerly had played Dragon Age well enough to suit a member here, but now cannot do so.  It happens when a stress beyond what the hardware can handle is applied over and over.  Computers and hardware never designed for gaming sometimes begin to fail, to deteriorate, and the only culprit we can think of (we local game players who would never think of gaming with an Intel video chip) is that repeated cycles of relatively high thermal conditions eventually can cause components to begin breaking down. 

The "i-series" processors from Intel are a bit new yet to know whether they will suffer from this same malady; they may be immune, but I doubt it. 

#12
Gorath Alpha

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I need to replace this entire thread with one new, more succinct discussion of the subject. DA and DA2 are relatively dead forums after the spring of 2011, except for threads including conjecture about DA3 in the general subjects forums. ME-2 has experienced a resurgence the last couple of months with ME-3 being released within a month, but compared to a normal amount of message traffic, is still mostly dead.

However, the latest new members coming into the ME-2 forums are a fresh batch of cheapskates unwilling to take the time to select game-capable hardware, and yet not wanting to accept the fruits of their poor shopping.

For less cost, and with better battery life, they could have purchased systems with AMD Fushion APUs in them, among which the Llano series has several levels of decent graphics in the same general class as the discrete Radeon HD 5570.  Relatively soon, a fresh update of the Fushion APU technology will bring Medium Quality graphics to the desktop market with a better price to performance ratio than anything from Intel (this is already possible with some AMD chipsets and discrete card combinations -- better graphics at lower cost). 

The Trinity series is due to appear very soon now. 

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 09 février 2012 - 07:04 .