771 réponses à ce sujet

[Vulee94]

Tsuga C wrote...
REAL cRPGs

Oh my, is that really you Mr. Gygax?
Thank you for telling me what a REAL RPG is...  <_<

[fchopin]

Torhagen wrote...

jonluke93 wrote...

So is new Bioware since they were bought by EA or when they made KOTOR?

for me since ME2

Same for me.
 
Any game bioware make that follows the ME2 road will be a no buy for me so i hope DA2 follows the DAO road.

[TimelordDC]

Tsuga C wrote...

REAL cRPGs are about choice regarding the who and why inherent in character creation that guides the development of the PC within the world.  If we're being denied this choice, we're being denied one of the primary attractions of traditional BioWare games.

That is not entirely true. With a fixed protagonist, you can offer up a far more compelling story than one that has to make sense irrespective of race/gender/etc. Look to the Witcher for an example in a fantasy setting and ME/ME2.
With a great story background comes better and more meaningful choices and more role-playing opportunities. Not having to cater to different origin backgrounds mean they can write more content specific to Hawke and give more polish to everything. Just sit back, play something else for a few months, don't visit these boards and enjoy DA2 with a fresh perspective 

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Tsuga C wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
 Aparently not so much anymore.

With any luck they're reading this and, after taking a bunch of flack, they'll offer more choice in customizing our next PC in an expansion pack or DA3.  Yes, we can call the shots with our predetermined Hawke PC and steer our protagonist towards the high, middle, or low roads.  This might be sufficient for a one-shot adventure in DA2, but it's just NOT going to cut the mustard in the future.  I'm well aware of their statement that they wanted to play around with different modes of telling the story of Thedas in the Dragon Age, but if this series is to last, it'll have to do better in the future.

REAL cRPGs are about choice regarding the who and why inherent in character creation that guides the development of the PC within the world.  If we're being denied this choice, we're being denied one of the primary attractions of traditional BioWare games.

Bingo! we have a winner! Announcer guy tell our lucky contestant what he's won!

[Estel78]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I can't speak for Gaider, but I don't think that he's in a position - for a variety of reasons - to answer that. Simply put, he's not privy to CD Projeckt's inner workings.

To be honest, i don't expect to receive an answer from Gaider.

slimgrin wrote...

Well, they have expanded their team since TW1

Well, TW1, too, looked pretty awesome for its time. Even more than the number of polygons and shaders what fascinates me about Witcher is their art design, the places have a really authentic feel to them as opposed to that fantasy cliché look of most other games, including Bioware ones.

But enough of putting Bioware down, i actually love Bioware, i really do. Can't wait for Gamescom, just 2 more days!

[Bryy_Miller]

adneate wrote...

Just as I can only go on what I've seen over the years, the company has proved time and time again they don't really care about quality. 

I don't really think you can grant yourself the ability to see inside their heads.

[Tsuga C]

TimelordDC wrote...
That is not entirely true.

I admit the slim possibility of standing corrected if BioWare manages to make a DA2 that rivals Planescape: Torment in terms of ways of defining Hawke through his/her actions and choices as well as a similarly robust storyline and plethora of companions that the gaming community will still be talking about more than a decade later. 

As I said, it's a slim possibility.

Modifié par Tsuga C, 16 août 2010 - 08:45 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
 Aparently not so much anymore.

With any luck they're reading this and, after taking a bunch of flack, they'll offer more choice in customizing our next PC in an expansion pack or DA3.  Yes, we can call the shots with our predetermined Hawke PC and steer our protagonist towards the high, middle, or low roads.  This might be sufficient for a one-shot adventure in DA2, but it's just NOT going to cut the mustard in the future.  I'm well aware of their statement that they wanted to play around with different modes of telling the story of Thedas in the Dragon Age, but if this series is to last, it'll have to do better in the future.

REAL cRPGs are about choice regarding the who and why inherent in character creation that guides the development of the PC within the world.  If we're being denied this choice, we're being denied one of the primary attractions of traditional BioWare games.

Bingo! we have a winner! Announcer guy tell our lucky contestant what he's won!

Hmm.  So I guess that Baldur's Gate, Fallout, PS:T, NWN, NWN2, KOTOR, KOTOR2...none of these count as real cRPGs.  Compare them to DA2.  Only Baldur's Gate and the NWN games even have the option of picking race, and race has absolutely no bearing on the game's plot or character development--in fact, certain races don't even make sense given D&D's lore on races and the PC's relatively young age in BG and NWN2.  And every one of these games except the original campaign NWN has a set protagonist with a set background.  You play as the Bhaalspawn, the Vault Dweller, the Nameless One, the Jedi Exile, Knight-Captain, whatever.  Too bad they weren't REAL cRPGs.  My mistake 

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 16 août 2010 - 08:46 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

slimgrin wrote...

You've said this before. Go play SF4, or any Japanese developed fighting game. Get good at it. Then come back to the relaxing pace of ME2.

I'm quite familiar with Japanese fighting games.  I used to have an SNK Neo-Geo console specifically so I could play them.

But I don't play fighting games anymore, because I no longer enjoy fighting games.  If ME2 (or ME3, or any game) is going to require that degree of frantic action, then it's just not a game I'm going to enjoy throughout.

[Apollo Starflare]

The whole 'Mass Effect is the future/regression of the genre' thing always puzzles me. I find the RPG genre of game quite a broad one, people can't even agree on what defines and RPG game these days in fact, for me Dragon Age was all about trying to perfect one style of the genre; a style that harkens back to the older titles such as BG. Mass Effect on the other hand is quite a different sort of RPG, it's much more cinematic and is telling a story in a different way. I don't feel that the way it tells it's story, as different in execution as it might be, limits the roleplaying or storytelling potential, it just makes it different. To me they are both great games that move their style of RPG forward, innovating in numerous areas. In short, I tend to see the ME franchise as the future of it's style of RPG and DA as something quite different but equally as good (if not better). Bioware is just managing to suceed on both fronts in my eyes, hopefully TOR will see them pull off the MMORPG too.

/50p.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Tsuga C wrote...

TimelordDC wrote...
That is not entirely true.

I admit the slim possibility of standing corrected if BioWare manages to make a DA2 that rivals Planescape: Torment in terms of ways of defining Hawke through his/her actions and choices as well as a similarly robust storyline and plethora of companions that the gaming community will still be talking about more than a decade later. 

Magic 8 ball says: Outlook hazy try again later.

I'm in the same boat, its going to come down to execution. If they can flesh things out enough so that the characters actually have meaning and the player feels like his or her choices actually affect things, I can personally deal with having less customization on the creation end. I'm still not going to like it as much as personally making my own character that "I" chose but I digress.

That being said, given the short dev cycle and the quality that was Awakening I have quite a few doubts.

[BruceVC]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

bcrankshaw wrote...
The only reason we are not seeing another  Obsidian NWN game is because Atari is being sued by Hasbro ..the owners of the AD&D franchise. I'm sure this will get resolved
There are also many upcoming  and brilliant fantasy RPG's coming out  for PC...Witcher 2 ,Gothic 4 ,Two Worlds 2 ,Kingdoms of Amalur ,Fable 3 etc

Bioware has changed how they want to produce RPG's...the genre hasn't died at all

Firstly, AD&D is gone. Dead. Deceased. Obsolete. Gone. It's simply D&D now.

So you don't think that Obsidian have their hands full with their own projects? And what's to say Obsidian have to make the next NWN/D&D game? Is it not possible for, say, inXile to do it?

RPGs haven't died, no, but the old ways have. Fixed-Isometric, gone. Build-Your-Own-Party, mostly gone. Complex rulesets, mostly gone. Limited voice acting, mostly gone. First person "windowed" (like M&M), gone. No RPG made today, outside of independent developers like Basilisk Games, is going to stick to most of the conventions that are gone in RPGs. If you compare, say, Dragon Age to what were mainstream RPGs 10, 15, maybe even 20 years ago, and it's like a completely different world.

Witcher 2 and Fable 3 aren't in the same league, either. They're more "actiony" than RPG-like.

AD&D/D&D you know what I mean ...no need to be pedantic....its petulant
I don't mind who makes the next NWN ...I was just pointing out there is still scope to develop the AD&D ( sorry !!!) the D&D franchise as you seem to think this is as unlikely as finding the Holy Grail
I agree the audience has changed ,that doesn't mean a game won't be developed for a niche market that will appreciate it
It won't be Bioware but thats fine

Modifié par bcrankshaw, 16 août 2010 - 08:54 .

[TimelordDC]

Tsuga C wrote...

TimelordDC wrote...
That is not entirely true.

I admit the slim possibility of standing corrected if BioWare manages to make a DA2 that rivals Planescape: Torment in terms of ways of defining Hawke through his/her actions and choices as well as a similarly robust storyline and plethora of companions that the gaming community will still be talking about more than a decade later. 

As I said, it's a slim possibility.

Why is it a slim possibility? Bioware managed to put out a party-based campaign we are still talking about a decade later. Why couldn't they do the same with a fixed protagonist?
They did try this before in Jade Empire and ME and those were best-sellers too.
If anything, I think Bioware has evolved a lot in their story-telling and know the world they've created (and are expanding with DA2) that much better to offer us a better product.
Let's give them a chance before writing DA2 off before we've even seen the first railer!

Modifié par TimelordDC, 16 août 2010 - 08:53 .

[Laine the Wise]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
 Aparently not so much anymore.

With any luck they're reading this and, after taking a bunch of flack, they'll offer more choice in customizing our next PC in an expansion pack or DA3.  Yes, we can call the shots with our predetermined Hawke PC and steer our protagonist towards the high, middle, or low roads.  This might be sufficient for a one-shot adventure in DA2, but it's just NOT going to cut the mustard in the future.  I'm well aware of their statement that they wanted to play around with different modes of telling the story of Thedas in the Dragon Age, but if this series is to last, it'll have to do better in the future.

REAL cRPGs are about choice regarding the who and why inherent in character creation that guides the development of the PC within the world.  If we're being denied this choice, we're being denied one of the primary attractions of traditional BioWare games.

Bingo! we have a winner! Announcer guy tell our lucky contestant what he's won!

Hmm.  So I guess that Baldur's Gate, Fallout, PS:T, NWN, NWN2, KOTOR, KOTOR2...none of these count as real cRPGs.  Compare them to DA2.  Only Baldur's Gate and the NWN games even have the option of picking race, and race has absolutely no bearing on the game's plot or character development--in fact, certain races don't even make sense given D&D's lore on races and the PC's relatively young age in BG and NWN2.  And every one of these games except the original campaign NWN has a set protagonist with a set background.  You play as the Bhaalspawn, the Vault Dweller, the Nameless One, the Jedi Exile, Knight-Captain, whatever.  Too bad they weren't REAL cRPGs.  My mistake 

*facepalm* I've been wrong about cRPGs for years!

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Tsuga C wrote...

TimelordDC wrote...
That is not entirely true.

I admit the slim possibility of standing corrected if BioWare manages to make a DA2 that rivals Planescape: Torment in terms of ways of defining Hawke through his/her actions and choices as well as a similarly robust storyline and plethora of companions that the gaming community will still be talking about more than a decade later. 

As I said, it's a slim possibility.

No, it isn't. Let's just be honest, at least.

[Bryy_Miller]

Tsuga C wrote...

TimelordDC wrote...
That is not entirely true.

I admit the slim possibility of standing corrected if BioWare manages to make a DA2 that rivals Planescape: Torment 

So, what's it like, wanting BioWare to fail at every turn?

[filetemo]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

TimelordDC wrote...
That is not entirely true.

I admit the slim possibility of standing corrected if BioWare manages to make a DA2 that rivals Planescape: Torment 

So, what's it like, wanting BioWare to fail at every turn?

What's it like to whiteknight a game developer?

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

TimelordDC wrote...
That is not entirely true.

I admit the slim possibility of standing corrected if BioWare manages to make a DA2 that rivals Planescape: Torment 

So, what's it like, wanting BioWare to fail at every turn?

Prolly similar to definding them no matter what? I don't think anyone wants them to fail, there are those of us old timers who are just concerned with the shift thats going on. Some of us still like those old school RPG staples and would hate to see them completely go away for good. I'm sorry that it offends you for us to voice that concern.

[Merced256]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

TimelordDC wrote...
That is not entirely true.

I admit the slim possibility of standing corrected if BioWare manages to make a DA2 that rivals Planescape: Torment 

So, what's it like, wanting BioWare to fail at every turn?

Fair or not bioware brought this on themselves when they named DA:O the spiritual successor to BG2. If bioware had any intention of making DA2 a Dragon Effect like game, and then returning to the original CRPG style they would've said it by now. Instead the only thing that will bring that back is a miracle, bad sales, and a lot of forum hate.

[jonluke93]

fchopin wrote...

Torhagen wrote...

jonluke93 wrote...

So is new Bioware since they were bought by EA or when they made KOTOR?

for me since ME2

Same for me.
 
Any game bioware make that follows the ME2 road will be a no buy for me so i hope DA2 follows the DAO road.

Cool just wondering.

[TimelordDC]

Merced256 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

TimelordDC wrote...
That is not entirely true.

I admit the slim possibility of standing corrected if BioWare manages to make a DA2 that rivals Planescape: Torment 

So, what's it like, wanting BioWare to fail at every turn?

Fair or not bioware brought this on themselves when they named DA:O the spiritual successor to BG2. If bioware had any intention of making DA2 a Dragon Effect like game, and then returning to the original CRPG style they would've said it by now. Instead the only thing that will bring that back is a miracle, bad sales, and a lot of forum hate.

So, they said DA:O was a spiritual successor to BG2. They never did say that about DA2. So, why are we assuming that? Because it is a sequel and a sequel cannot be different from the original one?
I wonder if BG2 was the same as BG1....and no, it was not! Not with the art style, not with the length and not with the party interactions and not even with the rules.

I agree there must be some argument about what Bioware is doing with DA2 (though said argument will accomplish nothing!) but to completely dismiss DA2 as a fantasy Mass Effect is wrong - especially since we don't even have the first glimpses into how the game will play out.

[Saibh]

Merced256 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

TimelordDC wrote...
That is not entirely true.

I admit the slim possibility of standing corrected if BioWare manages to make a DA2 that rivals Planescape: Torment 

So, what's it like, wanting BioWare to fail at every turn?

Fair or not bioware brought this on themselves when they named DA:O the spiritual successor to BG2. If bioware had any intention of making DA2 a Dragon Effect like game, and then returning to the original CRPG style they would've said it by now. Instead the only thing that will bring that back is a miracle, bad sales, and a lot of forum hate.

You do realize you're in the minority with hating the directions DA2 is going, right? Like, the teeny minority.

Again, there is no "original cRPG" style. Almost every one we've ever had isn't forgiving in letting you choose your race--the almost all have some sort of set background, unless you're the ultimate AFGNCAAP, as Sable pointed out, many of BioWare's early games had a set character.

[Divine Justinia V]

TheMadCat wrote...
Your opinion doesn't equal the death of a company.

Exactly!

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Ahzrei wrote...RPGs are still RPGs.

Except console focused and no very good.

Stfu about things being "console focused". Seriously, people like you in this forum need a better argument than 'it's all of the consoles fault.'

Seth Burns wrote...
You are entitled to your opinion. I respect your opinion. Your opinion is not right. It is not wrong, either. It is just your opinion. Therefore, your feelings and opinions are pointless to post, because your opinions and feelings are neither wrong or right. So I see no reason in these types of hate threads. Bioware, nor it's players are going to consider what you've said. Also, if you don't like the way Bioware is heading, just stop buying their games. Don't worry, nobody will notice.

Hahahaha, QTF

Funkcase wrote...
I'm sorry, but if Bioware made games like Baldur's Gate in todays industry it wont sell realy well, that's the problem, if Bioware dont make money, they wont make quality games, as there best developers would most likely move onto other companys that can actually afford to pay them well.

It's a pity that no one else sees this. Society's changed. I know I wouldn't have bought any BW games if they were mostly like BG. BW wouldn't be selling the way they are today.

Addai67 wrote...
This weekend I played Leliana's Song, and found myself thinking that although it was well made, it felt like playing Mass Effect, not Dragon Age. 

 
.... could you elaborate on that please?

StormbringerGT wrote...

@ Gandalf-the-Fabulous

Thats a little melodramtic.

Completely. 

Modifié par VittoriaLandis, 16 août 2010 - 09:15 .

[Merced256]

Saibh wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

TimelordDC wrote...
That is not entirely true.

I admit the slim possibility of standing corrected if BioWare manages to make a DA2 that rivals Planescape: Torment 

So, what's it like, wanting BioWare to fail at every turn?

Fair or not bioware brought this on themselves when they named DA:O the spiritual successor to BG2. If bioware had any intention of making DA2 a Dragon Effect like game, and then returning to the original CRPG style they would've said it by now. Instead the only thing that will bring that back is a miracle, bad sales, and a lot of forum hate.

You do realize you're in the minority with hating the directions DA2 is going, right? Like, the teeny minority.

Without reading a single thing past this i have say:

"You do realize how incredibly pretentious and arrogant you have to be to make this statement don't you?"

Modifié par Merced256, 16 août 2010 - 09:13 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

What are people supposed to think when they play Origins and then go into DA2 thinking it's going to be a sequel to that game and are then surprised to see that it's a totally different game that just happens to have the same name?



People have certain expectations for sequels, and sometimes they are set a bit too high. No doubt. But people are not wrong for expecting a sequel to be a sequel. If they do turn it into Dragon Effect, I will no doubt be very upset, but at least I will have seen it coming. But the other people who don't follow up on that kinda stuff, I feel a little bad for them.