771 réponses à ce sujet

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I still am waiting for that mech game that they never made a sequel to

Even they they were gonna those bastards

MW5 is your only hope in that regard, though unless they clear up the legalities with Harmony Gold it may never see the light of day.

[AngryFrozenWater]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

Bioware isn't in a dissimilar position, they just chose the wrong path for DA2 in my opinion. The marketing, even the game, brought a lot of people who had never been exposed to CRPGs in to the fold as it were. But it apparently wasn't enough, despite what can only be described as a huge success for such an "archaic" style of game as other describe. Instead bioware appears to be trying to get a even larger audience. When is enough, enough?

Its like the saying from star wars. "The more the empire tightens its grip, the more systems slip through its fingers. " I personally enjoyed the sort of dichotomy that existed between the ME and DA:O games. One was technically a RPG that was more cinematic and action oriented, the other a CRPG throwback. At this point only the devs know how much like ME2 DA2 will be, but i pray the only thing they have in common is a dialog wheel and a set protagonist.

Spot on, and its incredibly apparent as the influx of posters who have no quams at all about stripping out staples of the genre. It truly is a fear more than anything else at least at this point that us old timers can kiss the parts we valued in past Bioware titles can kiss it goodbye because we're no longer the base that is cared about. Now its all about action and less background story/customization.

Sad really, I still hope that DA2 turns out well enough, but its quite hard to shake the feeling that we're about to see a quick Dragon Effect cash in that should make all the kiddies squeal with delight, while us old timers are left expecting more. Though I'm sure they'll be more, for 5-10 dollars a pop in DLC.

So far I am with you, Sarah. I agree with most of what you said in this thread. It's good to see people post things like you did. Not every BW fan appreciates their new route. Thanks.

[Morroian]

New route? Based on what people claim an rpg is kotor was less of an rpg than even DA2 will be and how long ago was that.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Morroian wrote...

New route? Based on what people claim an rpg is kotor was less of an rpg than even DA2 will be and how long ago was that.

You obviously don't agree. Noted.

[Bryy_Miller]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Sad really, I still hope that DA2 turns out well enough, but its quite hard to shake the feeling that we're about to see a quick Dragon Effect cash in that should make all the kiddies squeal with delight, while us old timers are left expecting more. Though I'm sure they'll be more, for 5-10 dollars a pop in DLC.

Try to be more condescending. No, try. I know you have it in you.

[Arrtis]

The old bioware may be dead but the new bioware is better.

The sole reason being they are shipping out better than average games that appeal to many people for more than just story.

[Massadonious1]

Pissing contests about who's been a BioWare fan for longer are always entertaining.

[AndrahilAdrian]

As long as Bioware keeps making the best interactive stories in the business, I really don't care about the gameplay.

[Bryy_Miller]

Arrtis wrote...

The old bioware may be dead but the new bioware is better.
The sole reason being they are shipping out better than average games that appeal to many people for more than just story.

I honestly don't understand people's fascination with a change in gameplay equaling less story. In fact, it's really just a change in GRAPHICS, once you think about it.

It gets really interesting (and kind of ironic) when you take into consideration that a lot of these people are in the "I don't care about graphics" crowd.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 17 août 2010 - 07:03 .

[Arrtis]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

The old bioware may be dead but the new bioware is better.
The sole reason being they are shipping out better than average games that appeal to many people for more than just story.

I honestly don't understand people's fascination with a change in gameplay equaling less story. In fact, it's really just a change in GRAPHICS, once you think about it.

It gets really interesting (and kind of ironic) when you take into consideration that a lot of these people are in the "I don't care about graphics" crowd.

When does having more than just story = less story?

[Tempest]

I love posts like these. Always there for a good laugh. Yep, bioware should never have changed the way their games are. Just like Mario should have stayed in 2D platforms and Zelda should have stayed with an overview camera. Street Fighter should never have gone 3D. Final Fantasy should never gone 3D as well (This can be argued. But I say that FF9 was the best so far)



Just saying this type of argument/debating/ranting is old and has existed since games themselves. Heck there are people that believe RPG's should have never left Text/Typing based actions/communication. I will say that ME is a great step forward for RPG's in the form of story telling and smooth action. (You know, the no push a single button and wait for the bar to go down. You gotta stay on the ball the hole time.) Though we have as of yet to see any actual gameplay video of DA2 and to condemn it so quickly? For shame. They said the same for Zelda WindWaker and that game was and still is freakin awesome.

[Bryy_Miller]

Arrtis wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

The old bioware may be dead but the new bioware is better.
The sole reason being they are shipping out better than average games that appeal to many people for more than just story.

I honestly don't understand people's fascination with a change in gameplay equaling less story. In fact, it's really just a change in GRAPHICS, once you think about it.

It gets really interesting (and kind of ironic) when you take into consideration that a lot of these people are in the "I don't care about graphics" crowd.

When does having more than just story = less story?

I was speaking in general.

[Rzepik2]

Bioware never released complex cRPG after Baldur's Gate. Sure, their games had a good plot, but missed few important things like:
- strategic combat.
- decent level of world exploration.
- possibility to kill anyone.

And now they are making games like Mass Effect 2... Sweet. Srsly. Let them make action games with cRPG elements, because they're really good at it. Mass Effect 2 (despites quite serious flaws) is a great game. Not a cRPG, but hella fun.

Sooner or later someone will take over 'harrrrdcorrre cRPG' niche.

Modifié par Rzepik2, 17 août 2010 - 07:22 .

[SurfaceBeneath]

"Old" Bioware "died" after Neverwinter Nights came out.



People complaining about "new" Bioware are about 10 years too late. Considering how much the video game industry has changed over such a short period of time, that's like complaining about the telegraph going out of style while holding a cell phone in your hand.

[Saibh]

Rzepik2 wrote...

Bioware never released complex cRPG after Baldur's Gate. Sure, their games had a good plot, but missed few important things like:
- strategic combat.
- decent level of world exploration.
- possibility to kill anyone.

And now they are making games like Mass Effect 2... Sweet. Srsly. Let them make action games with cRPG elements, because they're really good at it. Mass Effect 2 (despites quite serious flaws) is a great game. Not a cRPG, but hella fun.

Sooner or later someone will take over 'harrrrdcorrre cRPG' niche.

No offense, but I don't consider the ability to kill anyone a complex RPG. Honestly, it severely limits RPG complexity, since the game needs to find a way around killing quest-givers and important NPCs, so most of it has to be as bland and pointless as possible. Think Fable.

Also, DAO had strategic combat.

I consider complexity to be the plot and story--world exploration limits this, and the lack of it doesn't make a game less complex, I feel.

BioWare is very different than it used to be, true, but I don't see the point in complaining about the changes--not saying you are, but I'm directing this generally--because they're not going to change back.

Modifié par Saibh, 17 août 2010 - 07:36 .

[Rzepik2]

Saibh wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...

Bioware never released complex cRPG after Baldur's Gate. Sure, their games had a good plot, but missed few important things like:
- strategic combat.
- decent level of world exploration.
- possibility to kill anyone.

And now they are making games like Mass Effect 2... Sweet. Srsly. Let them make action games with cRPG elements, because they're really good at it. Mass Effect 2 (despites quite serious flaws) is a great game. Not a cRPG, but hella fun.

Sooner or later someone will take over 'harrrrdcorrre cRPG' niche.

No offense, but I don't consider the ability to kill anyone a complex RPG. Honestly, it severely limits RPG complexity, since the game needs to find a way around killing quest-givers and important NPCs, so most of it has to be as bland and pointless as possible. Think Fable.

Also, DAO had strategic combat.

I consider complexity to be the plot and story--world exploration limits this, and the lack of it doesn't make a game less complex, I feel.

BioWare is very different than it used to be, true, but I don't see the point in complaining about the changes--not saying you are, but I'm directing this generally--because they're not going to change back.

- Think Fallout 1 & 2, Baldur's Gate 2. It does not have to limit anything 

- Ohhh pleaseee.... Maybe I'm wrong, but if I can beat 90% of encounters with the same simple tactic, I don't call it strategic combat.

- There's such thing like a smart balance between main plot and freedom.
If you consider complexity to be the plot and story... well.... go play some visual novels.

Modifié par Rzepik2, 17 août 2010 - 07:53 .

[TrueUSPatriot]

I think everyone should relax. Obviously people have their own opinions about what they think bioware should and shouldn't do. And while it is good to tell Bioware what you want in a new game their creating, others may disagree or may want something else. And it's hard to listen to a huge player base, hundreds of thousands make requests do you think they can add every single one to the game? As for those who say Bioware is walking down the wrong path for DA 2, marketing wise...I think you should leave it up to the professionals to decide whats best for Bioware in terms of marketing. And saying that they are attracting people who have never been exposed to cprgs really bares no merit on the matter. But I think it's just pointless in saying how you want the "old" bioware back or to make complaints about the "new" bioware their doing whats best for their company to make the maximum amount of profit. If you had a company, especially in this current economy (although it is recovering) I'm sure you'd do the same thing. Bioware won't change and they dont need to change. I enjoy their games, and I'm sure you all do too, otherwise you wouldn't be here. No company will be able to make a perfect game that every gamer in the world loves.

[AmstradHero]

Ah. the amusement of someone advocating the "harrrrdcorrre cRPG" niche with a "I support more hairstyles in ME3" sig.
'scuse me, I'll be over here in the corner... laughing.

Okay, that's it for me, really. I'm out. People aren't going to convince anyway either way that the "new" or "old" ways are better. It's a personal preference thing. The problem is that what some people are declaring as a failing of game design are actually talking about personal preferences and sometimes what they think they want isn't actually what they're asking for, or what they actually want.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 17 août 2010 - 07:59 .

[Master Shiori]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Mary: Wandering the hallways of the BioWare office with a cart. Bring out yer dead!

David: Hauling Luke over his shoulder I've got one for you.

Luke: I'm not dead!

Mary: Suspicious. He says he's not dead yet.

David: Well, he will be soon enough.

Luke: I'm getting better!

Mary: I can't take him on the cart if he ain't dead.

Luke: I feel fine.

David: Clubs Luke over the head. There you go.

Mary: I'll be back round next Thursday. Bring out yer dead!


Yeah, yeah. I know I'm not the only one who was thinking it.

Damn Mary.

What did poor Luke ever do to you guys?

[TrueUSPatriot]

Rzepik2 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...

Bioware never released complex cRPG after Baldur's Gate. Sure, their games had a good plot, but missed few important things like:
- strategic combat.
- decent level of world exploration.
- possibility to kill anyone.

And now they are making games like Mass Effect 2... Sweet. Srsly. Let them make action games with cRPG elements, because they're really good at it. Mass Effect 2 (despites quite serious flaws) is a great game. Not a cRPG, but hella fun.

Sooner or later someone will take over 'harrrrdcorrre cRPG' niche.

No offense, but I don't consider the ability to kill anyone a complex RPG. Honestly, it severely limits RPG complexity, since the game needs to find a way around killing quest-givers and important NPCs, so most of it has to be as bland and pointless as possible. Think Fable.

Also, DAO had strategic combat.

I consider complexity to be the plot and story--world exploration limits this, and the lack of it doesn't make a game less complex, I feel.

BioWare is very different than it used to be, true, but I don't see the point in complaining about the changes--not saying you are, but I'm directing this generally--because they're not going to change back.

- Think Fallout 1 & 2, Baldur's Gate 2. It does not have to limit anything 

- Ohhh pleaseee.... Maybe I'm wrong, but if I can beat 90% of encounters with the same simple tactic, I don't call it strategic combat.

- There's such thing like a smart balance between main plot and freedom.
If you consider complexity to be the plot and story... well.... go play some visual novels.

Oh and how many games will you see that you have to change the tactic you use with every single encounter? Lol come on now. And there are limits to BG 2. Trust me, as for FA 1 and 2, I have never played so I wouldn't know. But all games have limits. And another thing that most of you are forgetting is the fact that you have a toolset you can change various things with or go and make your very own world if you want. That expands any limits by a lot. There are things I did not think was possible in the toolset that can be done.

Modifié par TrueUSPatriot, 17 août 2010 - 07:59 .

[Saibh]

Rzepik2 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...

Bioware never released complex cRPG after Baldur's Gate. Sure, their games had a good plot, but missed few important things like:
- strategic combat.
- decent level of world exploration.
- possibility to kill anyone.

And now they are making games like Mass Effect 2... Sweet. Srsly. Let them make action games with cRPG elements, because they're really good at it. Mass Effect 2 (despites quite serious flaws) is a great game. Not a cRPG, but hella fun.

Sooner or later someone will take over 'harrrrdcorrre cRPG' niche.

No offense, but I don't consider the ability to kill anyone a complex RPG. Honestly, it severely limits RPG complexity, since the game needs to find a way around killing quest-givers and important NPCs, so most of it has to be as bland and pointless as possible. Think Fable.

Also, DAO had strategic combat.

I consider complexity to be the plot and story--world exploration limits this, and the lack of it doesn't make a game less complex, I feel.

BioWare is very different than it used to be, true, but I don't see the point in complaining about the changes--not saying you are, but I'm directing this generally--because they're not going to change back.

- Think Fallout 1 & 2, Baldur's Gate 2. It does not have to limit anything 

- Ohhh pleaseee.... Maybe I'm wrong, but if I can beat 90% of encounters with the same simple tactic, I don't call it strategic combat.

- There's such thing like a smart balance between main plot and freedom.
If you consider complexity to be the plot and story... well.... go play some visual novels.

I playing BG right now, and this "tactics" that you speak of are just as easy. I don't play games for combat, so creativity is beyond me in a fight. I eventually learn tricks after playing a game to the umpteenth time, but so far, I'm incapable of doing anything that isn't the same thing over and over.

And if you consider complexity to be combat and tactics, RTS' are for you!

Modifié par Saibh, 17 août 2010 - 08:01 .

[Saibh]

TrueUSPatriot wrote...

I think everyone should relax. Obviously people have their own opinions about what they think bioware should and shouldn't do. And while it is good to tell Bioware what you want in a new game their creating, others may disagree or may want something else. And it's hard to listen to a huge player base, hundreds of thousands make requests do you think they can add every single one to the game? As for those who say Bioware is walking down the wrong path for DA 2, marketing wise...I think you should leave it up to the professionals to decide whats best for Bioware in terms of marketing. And saying that they are attracting people who have never been exposed to cprgs really bares no merit on the matter. But I think it's just pointless in saying how you want the "old" bioware back or to make complaints about the "new" bioware their doing whats best for their company to make the maximum amount of profit. If you had a company, especially in this current economy (although it is recovering) I'm sure you'd do the same thing. Bioware won't change and they dont need to change. I enjoy their games, and I'm sure you all do too, otherwise you wouldn't be here. No company will be able to make a perfect game that every gamer in the world loves.

Completely and totally OT, but...uh...that's a...heavy name you got there. I'm not trying to insult you, but it's just...some people aren't going to take you seriously. It's like having JesusOurSavior as your name.

Modifié par Saibh, 17 août 2010 - 08:02 .

[SDNcN]

Rzepik2 wrote...

- Ohhh pleaseee.... Maybe I'm wrong, but if I can beat 90% of
encounters with the same simple tactic, I don't call it strategic
combat.

Baldur's Gate 2 simple tactic: Proactively buff your party and know how to remove protections.Game is cake.

[addiction21]

Saibh wrote...

TrueUSPatriot wrote...

I think everyone should relax. Obviously people have their own opinions about what they think bioware should and shouldn't do. And while it is good to tell Bioware what you want in a new game their creating, others may disagree or may want something else. And it's hard to listen to a huge player base, hundreds of thousands make requests do you think they can add every single one to the game? As for those who say Bioware is walking down the wrong path for DA 2, marketing wise...I think you should leave it up to the professionals to decide whats best for Bioware in terms of marketing. And saying that they are attracting people who have never been exposed to cprgs really bares no merit on the matter. But I think it's just pointless in saying how you want the "old" bioware back or to make complaints about the "new" bioware their doing whats best for their company to make the maximum amount of profit. If you had a company, especially in this current economy (although it is recovering) I'm sure you'd do the same thing. Bioware won't change and they dont need to change. I enjoy their games, and I'm sure you all do too, otherwise you wouldn't be here. No company will be able to make a perfect game that every gamer in the world loves.

Completely and totally OT, but...uh...that's a...heavy name you got there. I'm not trying to insult you, but it's just...some people aren't going to take you seriously. It's like having JesusOurSavior as your name.

1. That is totally on topic looking at what has been "debated" about in this thread. (calling it a debate is a strtch"
2. Should go for less straw man fallacies.
3. You should actually address what he posted, instead of attempting to deflect his comment because you can not.

[Rzepik2]

AmstradHero wrote...

Ah. the amusement of someone advocating the "harrrrdcorrre cRPG" niche with a "I support more hairstyles in ME3" sig.
'scuse me, I'll be over here in the corner... laughing.

So... I can't enjoy both: old cRPGs and an action game with some roleplaying elements?
Stay in this corner man. And never leave it.