771 réponses à ce sujet

[Rzepik2]

SDNcN wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...

- Ohhh pleaseee.... Maybe I'm wrong, but if I can beat 90% of
encounters with the same simple tactic, I don't call it strategic
combat.

Baldur's Gate 2 simple tactic: Proactively buff your party and know how to remove protections.Game is cake.

Sure.

But that's still more complex than:
PC: Ice cone.
Morrigan: Ice cone.
Wynne: Ice cone.

[Saibh]

addiction21 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

TrueUSPatriot wrote...

I think everyone should relax. Obviously people have their own opinions about what they think bioware should and shouldn't do. And while it is good to tell Bioware what you want in a new game their creating, others may disagree or may want something else. And it's hard to listen to a huge player base, hundreds of thousands make requests do you think they can add every single one to the game? As for those who say Bioware is walking down the wrong path for DA 2, marketing wise...I think you should leave it up to the professionals to decide whats best for Bioware in terms of marketing. And saying that they are attracting people who have never been exposed to cprgs really bares no merit on the matter. But I think it's just pointless in saying how you want the "old" bioware back or to make complaints about the "new" bioware their doing whats best for their company to make the maximum amount of profit. If you had a company, especially in this current economy (although it is recovering) I'm sure you'd do the same thing. Bioware won't change and they dont need to change. I enjoy their games, and I'm sure you all do too, otherwise you wouldn't be here. No company will be able to make a perfect game that every gamer in the world loves.

Completely and totally OT, but...uh...that's a...heavy name you got there. I'm not trying to insult you, but it's just...some people aren't going to take you seriously. It's like having JesusOurSavior as your name.

1. That is totally on topic looking at what has been "debated" about in this thread. (calling it a debate is a strtch"
2. Should go for less straw man fallacies.
3. You should actually address what he posted, instead of attempting to deflect his comment because you can not.

...What? Nothing he said matters to me. I don't even disagree with him. I'm giving the guy a fair warning--people will be less willing to take him seriously.

Sir, I think you need a lesson in how not to sound condescending.

Also, OT generally means off-topic.



EDIT: Provided better link.

Modifié par Saibh, 17 août 2010 - 08:27 .

[Massadonious1]

Viconia: Animal Summoning 3
Aerie: Animal Summoning 3
Jaheria: Fire Elemental/Bears, Animal Summoning 3

Modifié par Massadonious1, 17 août 2010 - 08:28 .

[Rzepik2]

I playing BG right now, and this "tactics" that you speak of are just as easy. I don't play games for combat, so creativity is beyond me in a fight. I eventually learn tricks after playing a game to the umpteenth time, but so far, I'm incapable of doing anything that isn't the same thing over and over. 

Well... If you will beat shadow dragon, lich and bandits in the temple district with the same tactic, I will buy you a cookie.

[Rzepik2]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Viconia: Animal Summoning 3
Aerie: Animal Summoning 3
Jaheria: Fire Elemental/Bears, Animal Summoning 3

Thaxll'ssillyia: Death Spell

[Saibh]

Rzepik2 wrote...

I playing BG right now, and this "tactics" that you speak of are just as easy. I don't play games for combat, so creativity is beyond me in a fight. I eventually learn tricks after playing a game to the umpteenth time, but so far, I'm incapable of doing anything that isn't the same thing over and over. 

Well... If you will beat shadow dragon, lich and bandits in the temple district with the same tactic, I will buy you a cookie.

Also, my tactics are "ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK UNTIL IS DEAD".

Soooo...that runs the gamut on the random spells/talents I'll use that round.

[Massadonious1]

Rzepik2 wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Viconia: Animal Summoning 3
Aerie: Animal Summoning 3
Jaheria: Fire Elemental/Bears, Animal Summoning 3

Thaxll'ssillyia: Death Spell

PC Mage: Summon Planetar

Just saying, a lot of encounters in that game can be easily brute forced by a bunch of summon spells.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 17 août 2010 - 08:44 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Sad really, I still hope that DA2 turns out well enough, but its quite hard to shake the feeling that we're about to see a quick Dragon Effect cash in that should make all the kiddies squeal with delight, while us old timers are left expecting more. Though I'm sure they'll be more, for 5-10 dollars a pop in DLC.

Try to be more condescending. No, try. I know you have it in you.

I just call em like I see em, you want respect you treat people with respect. You're one to talk about being condescending towards people with your defend Bioware at all cost mantra. As a long time fan and supporter of Bioware, I think I have just as much right to post my grievances with the direction DA is moving in. Don't like it? Tough, as it was so nicely posted in a reply to me earlier in this very thread. Deal with it.

[Chairchucker]

I enjoyed Baldurs Gate. I enjoyed Dragon Age (despite its slight bent towards teenage angst.) I enjoyed Mass Effect. I enjoyed Mass Effect 2. This is a retarded argument.

[AmstradHero]

Rzepik2 wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...

Ah. the amusement of someone advocating the "harrrrdcorrre cRPG" niche with a "I support more hairstyles in ME3" sig.
'scuse me, I'll be over here in the corner... laughing.

So... I can't enjoy both: old cRPGs and an action game with some roleplaying elements?
Stay in this corner man. And never leave it.

Well, based on your post, you appeared to be in the camp of people who decries BioWare as "dumbing down" their games and not producing RPGs anymore.

You have my apology for not realising you could appreciate both BioWare's older and newer games. As for the definition of an RPG, well, that's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

AmstradHero wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...

Ah. the amusement of someone advocating the "harrrrdcorrre cRPG" niche with a "I support more hairstyles in ME3" sig.
'scuse me, I'll be over here in the corner... laughing.

So... I can't enjoy both: old cRPGs and an action game with some roleplaying elements?
Stay in this corner man. And never leave it.

Well, based on your post, you appeared to be in the camp of people who decries BioWare as "dumbing down" their games and not producing RPGs anymore.

You have my apology for not realising you could appreciate both BioWare's older and newer games. As for the definition of an RPG, well, that's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

There's a difference between being able to apprciate their current and past offerings, which I actually can and actively cheering them on to streamline things even further than they already have which I don't. There in lies the difference of opinion right there.

It doesn't have to be one way or the other in the long run in the first place, there could be a nice middle ground I'm sure.

[Rzepik2]

AmstradHero wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...

Ah. the amusement of someone advocating the "harrrrdcorrre cRPG" niche with a "I support more hairstyles in ME3" sig.
'scuse me, I'll be over here in the corner... laughing.

So... I can't enjoy both: old cRPGs and an action game with some roleplaying elements?
Stay in this corner man. And never leave it.

Well, based on your post, you appeared to be in the camp of people who decries BioWare as "dumbing down" their games and not producing RPGs anymore.

You have my apology for not realising you could appreciate both BioWare's older and newer games. As for the definition of an RPG, well, that's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

I believe you missed "Mass Effect 2", "great game", "hella fun".

Besides it's a bit more complicated than "hardcore" vs. "halo crowd". I'm a big fan of Baldur's Gate but Mass Effect 2 is in my top 10 too. And I don't like (Paradoxically?) Dragon Age: Origins.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Viconia: Animal Summoning 3
Aerie: Animal Summoning 3
Jaheria: Fire Elemental/Bears, Animal Summoning 3

Thaxll'ssillyia: Death Spell

PC Mage: Summon Planetar

Just saying, a lot of encounters in that game can be easily brute forced by a bunch of summon spells.

If you think you can get through a tough fight just by summoning a huge force in the Baldur's Gate series then you are an idiot, as Rzepik2 has already said the Death Spell utterly destroys summoned creatures, no dice rolls, no saves just DEAD. I really dont see how summoning another creature is going to help you unless of course for some reason the Planetar doesnt adhere to the rules of summoned creatures vs death spell.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Yeah Baldur's Gate rocked



However I absolutely did not like how I was pretty much forced to have a Thief in my party. I was doing just fine with a warrior set. Had Dyanheir as a mage but really didn't use her (except for her having slingshot and darts, didn't really use dat magic)

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Sad really, I still hope that DA2 turns out well enough, but its quite hard to shake the feeling that we're about to see a quick Dragon Effect cash in that should make all the kiddies squeal with delight, while us old timers are left expecting more. Though I'm sure they'll be more, for 5-10 dollars a pop in DLC.

Try to be more condescending. No, try. I know you have it in you.

I just call em like I see em, you want respect you treat people with respect. You're one to talk about being condescending towards people with your defend Bioware at all cost mantra. As a long time fan and supporter of Bioware, I think I have just as much right to post my grievances with the direction DA is moving in. Don't like it? Tough, as it was so nicely posted in a reply to me earlier in this very thread. Deal with it.

Just ignore him, he likes to fling insults but cant handle it when they get fired back at him and as such he isnt worth your time.

[Moirnelithe]

MerinTB wrote...

Saibh wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
ME style in the sense of a predetermined player character and a "streamlined" conversation system, that if it plays out the same way ME2 did, will flat out suck, as half the conversation choices in that game come out completely different as to whats written on the wheel.

DA:O offered alot of choice,  humans, elves, dwarves etc and various backgrounds as well. Here that choice is gone, in another case of dumbing the game down for the casuals.

Alright, before you had six predetermined characters to choose from, who's differences ceased existed past the Origin stories and occasional bits of dialogues (Yahtzee, Zero Punctuation: "HELLO. YOU ARE AN ELF."). Now, with one predetermined character, it leaves room for far more customized plots and story, which were before limited by all of the Origins.

Hawke is simply one Origin story--one far less predetermined than Shepard. Yes, you had six before, and now you don't. This is an obvious change people just need to accept. It will not make the game worse. Unless someone would like to imply that having only one character to choose from is somehow bad, and thus ignore the many excellent RPGs that are similarly choice-less in that regard.

The streamlined conversation system is an ingenious way to deal with having a voiced-over protagonist. Rather than read the whole line(s), we get a quick version, an icon, and they say it. It is boring to hear them say exactly what you just read. The only issue I'll have with it is if the icon/shortline system isn't accurate.

Also, exactly how is having six Origins to choose from "smarter"? They offer more variety, in some ways, but that doesn't make them instantly more intelligent, and the lack of Origins "dumbed down".

I'm so ducking out of this thread after this but...

it's really a matter of opinion on what is "better" but for the record I am of the opinion that -

6 Origins > 1 Origin
Dwarf, Elf or Human > Human
No backstory / story integration beyond player's imagination (or a box they can fill in for their own backstory, even with no in-game effect)  > pre-determined backstory deeply intergrated into game story
Create your character with your own name even though name has no in-game effect beyond your "character sheet" > being given a name so that VO can use it and story can be written around it
No VO and much reading of text so $trings can be used for more player customization of names and such > voiced characters

in short

more player control of the character the player ends up playing > super-awesome story with super-awesome "choices" in said story but a pre-defined, VO'd, pre-named character given

Your opinions may be different, and you are entitled to them.  Please stop, however, acting like your opinions are "right" beyond for yourself, or that those who disagree with you are "wrong."

(and yes, I realize that many of my "greaters" were not in Origins.  believe me, I noticed.)

This.

[mr_nameless]

[quote]Rzepik2 wrote...

[quote]SDNcN wrote...

[quote]Rzepik2 wrote...

- Ohhh pleaseee.... Maybe I'm wrong, but if I can beat 90% of
encounters with the same simple tactic, I don't call it strategic
combat. [/quote]

Baldur's Gate 2 simple tactic: Proactively buff your party and know how to remove protections.Game is cake.



Clearly you haven't played BG2 with all the recent mods including improved AI SSCII, spell changes, only rest ONCE in dungeons, fix pack, weimer stuff, randomized item locations, ascension etc...

I expect DOA with the newest gameplay mods to be equally good.

BTW not having the game editor working for DA2 is a HUGE mistake and is the breakaway deal for not buying the game. Hope Bioware fixes this. 

[AndarianTD]

AmstradHero wrote...

So what roleplaying do I get out a gold box games which has bucketloads of choices in terms of character creation?  I get to take my party of six characters, level them up, get phat lewt and kill the big bad in an adventure. Whoo! Hey, it was fun at the time, don't get me wrong. But haven't we moved beyond that?

Haven't we moved RPGs into a more interactive format? Haven't we made them have choices more like what we might get in an actual pen and paper RPG with a human DM?

I just wanted to say that I couldn't agree more with this.

As I remarked in a previous post on another thread, "RPG" (Roleplaying Game) has always had two or three meanings in the computer gaming community, and they're not infrequently at odds with each other. Some folks who describe themselves as "hard-core / old-school RPG" players are essentially reifying their particular focus on the genre into the genre itself. That's just not correct, and it's doubly not correct when you consider that these genres all evolve and grow over time as new technology and new techniques come into use to expand the potential scope of the computer gaming experience.

In the early days of CRPGs, role-playing often tended to emphasize things like class mechanics because that was all that the limited technology of the time could do well. The Gold Box games had an adventure construction toolset (Ultimate Adventures), but it was far too restricted to develop an adventure with a strong narrative (or indeed with many words at all). "Sandbox" games with a lot of virtual world to explore, unencumbered by much in the way of narrative structure, are similarly easier to develop with limited technology.

What tended to get short shrift in these early CRPGs was the interactivity associated with the genre, and in particular the ability to interact with and become part of a structured and dramatically presented narrative. But whether due to evolution in technology, the game development process, or both, the last decade has seen an explosion in the ability to create such games. Whether you're talking about a more linear narrative structure in which the player plays a role whose scope is significantly defined for him (which is a form of role-playing, whether some of the "hard-core" folks choose to acknowledge it or not), or a less linear one that emphasizes role-playing more narrative-based choices rather than stat-based ones, the fact remains that these are forms of role-playing as well. These are forms of role-playing that it has now become possible to emphasize because of the evolution of the genre.

With regard to the topic name: shouldn't the "old Bioware" always be evolving perpetually into a "new Bioware?" If it weren't, it would be a stagnant company that failed to adapt, grow, and help develop the ever-increasingly new possibilities of the field of computer gaming. The last thing I want to see them do is to rehash overused formulas from the past, rather than help develop new innovations for the future.

Modifié par AndarianTD, 17 août 2010 - 01:44 .

[Urik187]

Chairchucker wrote...

I enjoyed Baldurs Gate. I enjoyed Dragon Age (despite its slight bent towards teenage angst.) I enjoyed Mass Effect. I enjoyed Mass Effect 2. This is a retarded argument.

and I enjoyed reading your post. +5

[In Exile]

Rzepik2 wrote...

- Think Fallout 1 & 2, Baldur's Gate 2. It does not have to limit anything

Did you not meet plot-stand-in-guy? I can't remember his name, but if you kill plot NPCs they're replaced with a generic.

- Ohhh pleaseee.... Maybe I'm wrong, but if I can beat 90% of encounters with the same simple tactic, I don't call it strategic combat.

Yeah, totally not like BG/BG2 where you can beat 90% of encounters with the same tactic. Wait, you absolutely can do that (in fact, most encounters are that) so what are yout alking about?

- There's such thing like a smart balance between main plot and freedom.

Sure there is. Except it's completely subjective and you aren't the divine authority on it.

[In Exile]

Rzepik2 wrote...

Thaxll'ssillyia: Death Spell

Mercenary archer: shattering shot.

[darknoon5]

Baldurs gate 1 and 2 were hated by hardcore RPG fans at the time of their release, now the hardcore RPG fans love them, things change, threads like this are just people who are immune to change.

Granted, not all change is for the better, but I enjoy new and old bioware games alike.

[Zavrian]

Now...if this were a different fandom, I might be on the "dead" side. If this were, say, Doctor Who or DC Comics, I'd be on the--let's call it what it is--hater side. So I understand the "what have you done to my game/heroes/show/fandom" viewpoint.



I honestly don't beleive it applies here.



I've been a gamer for a long time. I remember the old SSI gold box Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance games. And some of the older games that came before. Heck, I remember MUDs. And pen and paper gaming.



I loved DAO, I loved ME2. I even liked Awakening. And I already had one concern about DA2, which I posted a thread about, conerning Morrigan. Golems of Almgarrak didn't exactly inspire me.



I am not a blind Bioware defender. If DA2 sucks, I will call them on it. But at this point? I think the future looks bright.

[Rzepik2]

In Exile wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...

- Think Fallout 1 & 2, Baldur's Gate 2. It does not have to limit anything

Did you not meet plot-stand-in-guy? I can't remember his name, but if you kill plot NPCs they're replaced with a generic.

- Ohhh pleaseee.... Maybe I'm wrong, but if I can beat 90% of encounters with the same simple tactic, I don't call it strategic combat.

Yeah, totally not like BG/BG2 where you can beat 90% of encounters with the same tactic. Wait, you absolutely can do that (in fact, most encounters are that) so what are yout alking about?

- There's such thing like a smart balance between main plot and freedom.

Sure there is. Except it's completely subjective and you aren't the divine authority on it.

- He appears only in BG1. I did not mention BG1. Read more carefully.
Oh, I will also add Planescape Torment to the "you can kill almost anyone and still have a great plot" family. Anyone dares to doubt this?
- BG1? Perhaps. BG2? Hell no. Twisted runes, liches, dragons, vampires, golems, Irenicus, bandits etc. Try using the same tactic against them, good luck with that.
- Sure I'm not. But who should we ask? Sales report?

In Exile wrote...

Rzepik2 wrote...

Thaxll'ssillyia: Death Spell

Mercenary archer: shattering shot.

Against single enemy? That seems like a waste of stamina. 

Modifié par Rzepik2, 17 août 2010 - 04:30 .