771 réponses à ce sujet

[pprrff]

Even if the new game totally sucks for you, you will still have DA:O and you can play it as much as you want. Why bother even wanting a sequel if people are going to want things to stay the same. Sooner or later people will be sick of the DA if Bioware rehashes the same designs and story over and over, it's better for them to do something new before that happens. I wish more people would encourage developer to take more chances.

[Rzepik2]

pprrff wrote...

Even if the new game totally sucks for you, you will still have DA:O and you can play it as much as you want. Why bother even wanting a sequel if people are going to want things to stay the same. Sooner or later people will be sick of the DA if Bioware rehashes the same designs and story over and over, it's better for them to do something new before that happens. I wish more people would encourage developer to take more chances.

People are not complaining about changes, people are complaining about bad (Subjectively of course) changes.
Although there's nothing weird about demanding from cRPG leader to keep some standards created by fallout, baldur's gate etc. 

Personally, I don't care right now. Didn't liked DA:O. Mass Effect with swords? Sure, why not.

[Saibh]

Kordaris wrote...

In Exile wrote...
The ME2 sale figure gives us 2 million sold in 4 days. Did ME2 sell 1.2 million more units in 3 months on one less platform? That's what I'm looking into now.

ME2 sales aren't that relevant. I bought ME2 based on experience with ME1. I won't buy ME3 due to changes they made in ME2(shooter game with some dialogue and combat options).
So what will be interesting is how well ME3 will sell. I know now that by going by the path of ME2 with DA2 I certainly will not spend anything on the game, and advise my friends and fellow gamers to do the same.

Okay, so you're not going to buy DA2? Great you're not a consumer, so leave. This is not the Kordy Advice on What to Not Buy Board, so leave. All you do is troll, so leave.

[Vandrayke]

Saibh wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

In Exile wrote...
The ME2 sale figure gives us 2 million sold in 4 days. Did ME2 sell 1.2 million more units in 3 months on one less platform? That's what I'm looking into now.

ME2 sales aren't that relevant. I bought ME2 based on experience with ME1. I won't buy ME3 due to changes they made in ME2(shooter game with some dialogue and combat options).
So what will be interesting is how well ME3 will sell. I know now that by going by the path of ME2 with DA2 I certainly will not spend anything on the game, and advise my friends and fellow gamers to do the same.

Okay, so you're not going to buy DA2? Great you're not a consumer, so leave. This is not the Kordy Advice on What to Not Buy Board, so leave. All you do is troll, so leave.

Isn't that the tricky thing with trolls?  You want to respond, but every time you do, it makes them stronger.  If the group as a whole never responded, trolls would disappear, but individually, everyone always responds.  It's like the forums version of the Prisoner's Dilemma or something.  Lol.  

[The Interloper]

These arguments have been going on forever and practically everything that can be said has been said. Part of the reason I dont' come here regularly.

But at the risk of sounding familiar, I just don't see how people have so little flexibility. The game doesn't conform to their preset wishes and standards, so the preemptively turn their nose up at it. I've seen people discard DA2 out of hand because they don't like the previews, and ME3 because they didn't like ME2. You guys insist that you're open to change, you just dont like these changes. Now I'm not going to pretend that I understand your position completely, maybe I'm misenterpreting you, but it still seems to be that your definition of valid "changes" is still very narrow. In which case, unlikely to be fufilled. I'm sure most of you are adults, many of you played Baldurs gate. You should know and accept that it is unreasonable to expect to get your way. But alot of people react with bewilderment, dismay, and disgust because things aren't going exactly as they want.

While I can understand being disapointed considering BWs track record, all of this "All hope is lost! Intelligent games are dead!" and "Well, I'm just leaving, so there!" just strikes me as whiny and pretentious. If you can't understand that devs don't cater to your specific wants, (even if they did ten years ago) or aren't willing to have some faith and maybe try to enjoy a game even if it (worst case scenario) isn't perfect like you're used to, well, I don't have much sympathy for you. I'd be disapointed to if I'd been with Bioware ten years, I guess, but I wouldn't abondon them just because they aren't exactly making the games I want.

Otherwise, I hope the disappointed to keep faith in the project and give Bioware constructive critisism. Yes, even if they don't always listen to you, yes, even if you've been with them since BG. And maybe, just maybe, widen your definition of "fun."

Personally, I don't care as long as it's fun, and I don't really care how they get there. The old DA style was just fine, but I for one am willing to give the new style a chance. Even if, god forbid, it leans mainstream.

But as I look around I see that I've inserted myself in the middle yet another argument about trolls, meaning that I might as well have not written all this stuff of that since I'm about to be buried and sealed away by five more pages of flame wars. I don't mean to sound stuffy, but I don't know why I bothered.

Modifié par The Interloper, 18 août 2010 - 05:04 .

[Ju13es]

Bioware wants to make dragon age its own franchise, not make another Bladurs Gate or any of their other games of the past. That is also why they are going with the new art direction. To give dragon age its very own look and feel.



I personally think the new art style sucks, but we will have to wait and see until its in action. But the game play mechanics, they are evolving them to make dragon age its own as well as trying to perfect their craft

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Kalfear wrote...

And the base is the part that was missing in ME2 and the base is what people so worried about being gone in DA2. STORY, IMMERSION, RELATIONSHIPS, these are your base of which all RPGs spring forth from. They are and always will remain, now or a century from now, the BASE of all good RPGs, and no amount of bells and whistles or imaginary majorities will  change that.

I hate to tell you thisbut Mass Effect 1 and 2 had STORY, IMMERSION AND RELATIONSHIPS TOO! For meMass Effect 1 and 2 are better in all those departments than Dragon Age: Origins.  

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 18 août 2010 - 05:15 .

[Angelsdawn]

Oh ffs you can't just dismiss people as trolls. They might talk about the same topic over and over again but thats just an obsessed fan feeling as though they're point is not being heard. Trolls are those who make completely baseless claims in order to get a reaction and I mean COMPLETELY baseless. So far every complaint is legit or just a little under researched.



I haven't come across one real troll on these boards yet. I don't doubt that there was one but most don't know the real definition of "Troll" and seek to ignore someone's post by calling them one. Instead, just reply with an actual argument or ignore them if you are incapable of answering rationally. Its pretty simple.

[Vandrayke]

Angelsdawn wrote...

Oh ffs you can't just dismiss people as trolls. They might talk about the same topic over and over again but thats just an obsessed fan feeling as though they're point is not being heard. Trolls are those who make completely baseless claims in order to get a reaction and I mean COMPLETELY baseless. So far every complaint is legit or just a little under researched.

I haven't come across one real troll on these boards yet. I don't doubt that there was one but most don't know the real definition of "Troll" and seek to ignore someone's post by calling them one. Instead, just reply with an actual argument or ignore them if you are incapable of answering rationally. Its pretty simple.

No, you can't dismiss everyone as trolls.  But when I am hardly ever on this board and I can already pick out a poster who ONLY says negative ridiculous over-the-top sh*t...

Modifié par Vandrayke, 18 août 2010 - 05:26 .

[Amfortas]

Kordaris wrote...

In Exile wrote...
The ME2 sale figure gives us 2 million sold in 4 days. Did ME2 sell 1.2 million more units in 3 months on one less platform? That's what I'm looking into now.

ME2 sales aren't that relevant. I bought ME2 based on experience with ME1. I won't buy ME3 due to changes they made in ME2(shooter game with some dialogue and combat options).
So what will be interesting is how well ME3 will sell.

I think that is quite true. The question is, why do people buy 2 million in 4 days? Did they know how the game was going to be? does it really mean that people liked the game more than DA or ME1? Because this sounds to me like most people who had ME1 bought the game right when it was released thinking that it was going to be similar to the original (me for example) + other people influenced by ridiculous reviews, like the IGN one, and maybe a more agressive marketing campaign? (I don't know about that one, I haven't even watched the DA2 trailer)

None of those indicate if people really like the game. It would be more interesting to see how the game is doing over time, or how will ME3 sell considering that not every ME2 user is going to buy it like crazy on the very day of the release.

By the way, this doesn't mean that I'm complaining about DA2, I have no elements to judge it.

Modifié par Amfortas, 18 août 2010 - 05:29 .

[Angelsdawn]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

And the base is the part that was missing in ME2 and the base is what people so worried about being gone in DA2. STORY, IMMERSION, RELATIONSHIPS, these are your base of which all RPGs spring forth from. They are and always will remain, now or a century from now, the BASE of all good RPGs, and no amount of bells and whistles or imaginary majorities will  change that.

I hate to tell you thisbut Mass Effect 1 and 2 had STORY, IMMERSION AND RELATIONSHIPS TOO! For meMass Effect 1 and 2 are better in all those departments than Dragon Age: Origins.  

The max convo number with one character in either ME games was about 6 to 7, 8 if they are feeling chatty, and none of them were especially insightful into the character's behavior, it was just a lot of cheesy lines from my perspective. DA:O had much more immersion. They all had interesting conversations and they amounted to about 16 of them on average for each character, on top of that they commented on their environment, they spoke to each other a lot and you could even influence a few to change their ways.

There was so much dialogue and work put into this game and it wound up being the most story driven, thought provoking and emotional game i've played since some of their ealier RPGs. Mass Effect was good and I know they worked hard on it, but they concentrated so much on the cinematic feel that they forgot the story and the character dialogue. It was fun, but it didn't have much replay value.

[Vandrayke]

Angelsdawn wrote...

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

And the base is the part that was missing in ME2 and the base is what people so worried about being gone in DA2. STORY, IMMERSION, RELATIONSHIPS, these are your base of which all RPGs spring forth from. They are and always will remain, now or a century from now, the BASE of all good RPGs, and no amount of bells and whistles or imaginary majorities will  change that.

I hate to tell you thisbut Mass Effect 1 and 2 had STORY, IMMERSION AND RELATIONSHIPS TOO! For meMass Effect 1 and 2 are better in all those departments than Dragon Age: Origins.  

The max convo number with one character in either ME games was about 6 to 7, 8 if they are feeling chatty, and none of them were especially insightful into the character's behavior, it was just a lot of cheesy lines from my perspective. DA:O had much more immersion. They all had interesting conversations and they amounted to about 16 of them on average for each character, on top of that they commented on their environment, they spoke to each other a lot and you could even influence a few to change their ways.

There was so much dialogue and work put into this game and it wound up being the most story driven, thought provoking and emotional game i've played since some of their ealier RPGs. Mass Effect was good and I know they worked hard on it, but they concentrated so much on the cinematic feel that they forgot the story and the character dialogue. It was fun, but it didn't have much replay value.

Hmm I know everyone's different but the ME series has more replay value for me.  Of course, DAO is longer, so I probably spent more aggregate time on that game.  

[Saibh]

Vandrayke wrote...

Hmm I know everyone's different but the ME series has more replay value for me.  Of course, DAO is longer, so I probably spent more aggregate time on that game.  

You're right, everyone's different. Personally, two playthroughs was enough--one as Paragon, one as a Renegade. To me, the only reason to replay was for romance options. I felt like I could pull off many different things with DAO's universe, be different characters, try to get new conclusions.

[pprrff]

Angelsdawn wrote...

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

And the base is the part that was missing in ME2 and the base is what people so worried about being gone in DA2. STORY, IMMERSION, RELATIONSHIPS, these are your base of which all RPGs spring forth from. They are and always will remain, now or a century from now, the BASE of all good RPGs, and no amount of bells and whistles or imaginary majorities will  change that.

I hate to tell you thisbut Mass Effect 1 and 2 had STORY, IMMERSION AND RELATIONSHIPS TOO! For meMass Effect 1 and 2 are better in all those departments than Dragon Age: Origins.  

The max convo number with one character in either ME games was about 6 to 7, 8 if they are feeling chatty, and none of them were especially insightful into the character's behavior, it was just a lot of cheesy lines from my perspective. DA:O had much more immersion. They all had interesting conversations and they amounted to about 16 of them on average for each character, on top of that they commented on their environment, they spoke to each other a lot and you could even influence a few to change their ways.

There was so much dialogue and work put into this game and it wound up being the most story driven, thought provoking and emotional game i've played since some of their ealier RPGs. Mass Effect was good and I know they worked hard on it, but they concentrated so much on the cinematic feel that they forgot the story and the character dialogue. It was fun, but it didn't have much replay value.

I disagree, I feel that I am much more attached to ME character's than DA character. I don't feel ME lacks any depth or story, especially if you view the two games together as a single entity. I thought the character behavior in ME is very well laid out (well most of them anyway). I know exactly what makes each of the characters tick, what their insecurities are and what motivate them. As for influencing npc, I would point to Jack as an example of how your interaction with her brings changes to personalities.

Also, the cinematic in the game is well worth the investment, I feel the way character move and position themselves create much better dialogues overall. Half the story telling is in the presentation, and ME present it well. You can actually see people's emotion and body language better in ME2, and it enhances immersion. 

[Vandrayke]

Saibh wrote...

Vandrayke wrote...

Hmm I know everyone's different but the ME series has more replay value for me.  Of course, DAO is longer, so I probably spent more aggregate time on that game.  

You're right, everyone's different. Personally, two playthroughs was enough--one as Paragon, one as a Renegade. To me, the only reason to replay was for romance options. I felt like I could pull off many different things with DAO's universe, be different characters, try to get new conclusions.

I hear you   Maybe I didn't replay DAO more than once simply BECAUSE the game is so long and I didn't want to do that much work again.  Lol.  Either way, I spent tons of time on each game, so they were all awesome in many respects!  

[Solid N7]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

...thread still lives? Sigh...
If people don't like it, then leave, why are you tormenting us who do?
If you want to live in the past, by all means, do so, but stop ruinning other people's fun.

Sure, you're as entitled to be upset and expose your discontentment in a polite and clear manner, but when you people post the same things 20 or 30 times and more often than not take swings at those who are responsible for BioWare or those who actually enjoy the games they make, it gets annoying, *really* annoying.

Bioware already heard your discontentment, and decided they are going to keep doing what they *feel* they should do, as opposed as what *you* want to force them to do. You're not entitled to anything, none of us are.
We are all just along for the ride. I like BioWare for the stories and characters, and all their games are still RPGs, as much as you love to label them as something else all together.

Furthermore, you're all a bunch of hypocrites. Should Bioware make the games *you* and only *you* want them to make and alienate *everyone* else, that'd be super duper fine, but if they dare to even as much as *try* to deviate from the same old repetitive DnD norm and make something new and fun, all hell breaks loose...

PS: I also like DnD style RPGs, btw. I also happen to like to switch between rice and spaghetti with my meat, which I like to vary between cooked and grilled... get what I'm saying?
Ah, what the hell, I'll just be flamed and labeled as an immature individual who likes to smash his keyboard with an IQ below that of a chimp's because I don't fit with the ****, I mean, "real RPG fans" some people on these boards are.

this^

@ kalfear go and play your beloved witcher and leave, Bioware doesn´t need you.

Modifié par Solid N7, 18 août 2010 - 06:03 .

[Saibh]

Vandrayke wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Vandrayke wrote...

Hmm I know everyone's different but the ME series has more replay value for me.  Of course, DAO is longer, so I probably spent more aggregate time on that game.  

You're right, everyone's different. Personally, two playthroughs was enough--one as Paragon, one as a Renegade. To me, the only reason to replay was for romance options. I felt like I could pull off many different things with DAO's universe, be different characters, try to get new conclusions.

I hear you   Maybe I didn't replay DAO more than once simply BECAUSE the game is so long and I didn't want to do that much work again.  Lol.  Either way, I spent tons of time on each game, so they were all awesome in many respects!  

I dreaded the Orzammar level. I always saved it till last (which is what you're supposed to do anyway...). It was beyond boring. The Fade wasn't so bad, since once you memorized the order, you just ran straight through it. Orzammar was horrific.

[Itkovian]

I do wonder where the claim that ME1 sold more than ME2 came from.

If that were the case, ME2 would be viewed as a failure for the franchise, when in fact its being acclaimed as a tremendous success. It sold 2 million in 4 days? That hardly jives with selling less than ME1, especially when you consider it did not even benefit from the holiday period.

Certainly, Bioware is behaving as if ME2 is one of their greatest successes, enough to emulate some of its innovations in DA2 (the cinematic dialogue, that is). I find it difficult to believe Bioware would do so if ME2 was indicative of a downturn in sales (even if it sold millions, if it sold less than ME1 it would be in a bad spot).

Itkovian

Modifié par Itkovian, 18 août 2010 - 06:34 .

[Saibh]

Itkovian wrote...

I do wonder where the claim that ME1 sold more than ME2 came from.

If that were the case, ME2 would be viewed as a failure for the franchise, when in fact its being acclaimed as a tremendous success. It sold 2 million in 4 days? That hardly jives with selling less than ME1, especially when you consider it did not even benefit from the holiday period.

Certainly, Bioware is behaving as if ME2 is one of their greatest successes, enough to emulate some of its innovations in DA2 (the cinematic dialogue, that is). I find it difficult to believe Bioware would do so if ME2 was indicative of a downturn in sales (even if it sold millions, if it sold less than ME1 it would be in a bad spot).

Itkovian

ME1 has been out since 2006. ME2 was released in January. You have to take that into account.

[Haexpane]

One of these days, we will stop talking about ME2 on DA2 forums, today is not that day.

[Kalfear]

Saibh wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

I do wonder where the claim that ME1 sold more than ME2 came from.

If that were the case, ME2 would be viewed as a failure for the franchise, when in fact its being acclaimed as a tremendous success. It sold 2 million in 4 days? That hardly jives with selling less than ME1, especially when you consider it did not even benefit from the holiday period.

Certainly, Bioware is behaving as if ME2 is one of their greatest successes, enough to emulate some of its innovations in DA2 (the cinematic dialogue, that is). I find it difficult to believe Bioware would do so if ME2 was indicative of a downturn in sales (even if it sold millions, if it sold less than ME1 it would be in a bad spot).

Itkovian

ME1 has been out since 2006. ME2 was released in January. You have to take that into account.

People keep reading units sent as units sold for ME2.

ME1 has sold more units then ME2 according to released financials that been posted on these very boards many times (so im not doing it yet again)

DA:O did 3.2 million units SOLD (maybe more now)
ME1 did 1.7 million units SOLD
ME2 did 1.5 million units SOLD (they sent out over 2 million units at the start but they didnt all sell)
Witcher did 1.5 million units SOLD (on one less platform...just for the guy whining about me and Witcher franchise)

Cant say it any clearer then that, but ot wont matters as all these figures been posted before and the same people argueing them now, ignored the released figures then (you want trolls, stand up and be counted Exile and others)

ME1 being out since 2006 not a huge deal as most sales happen first 6 month, period.

As I said, im not scared of change but dont try to say this is appealing to a Majority cause so far THEW NUMBERS say differently.

[Haexpane]

Wait the Witcher sold as many copies as ME2? WTF? I figured the thieves would pirate The Witcher a ton.



I still say, ME1 is the better game than ME2. ME2 has better technical qualities like the graphics tech, and control scheme. But ME1 is simply more fun, deeper, longer, and has a way better story. WAI BETTA!