14311 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Calla S wrote...

Well, there is only so much we can talk about before we're running in circles. If there was any new information, we'd be safe. But alas, we were pampered by PAX.

But the recent Mary post was barely talked about! 

[Jarek_Cousland]

Which was?

[Dave of Canada]

Jarek_Cousland wrote...

Which was?

Here.

[Jarek_Cousland]

Kinda throws a big plothole into the whole "Dwarves who leave Orzammar become casteless" thing no?

[Thrubeingcool13]

Jarek_Cousland wrote...

Kinda throws a big plothole into the whole "Dwarves who leave Orzammar become casteless" thing no?

Nope. They're technically casteless, but are informally known as the surface caste. They have no rights within the city, but can still do business there at set intervals. Like Ahren outside of Orzammar's gates.

[Bruddajakka]

Though going off what we're hearing now whole houses have gone to the Surface, and still consider themselves to be houses. It's actually pretty interesting, and it almost sounds like there's more Dwarves on the surface then there are in Orzammar or Kal'Sharok.

[Jarek_Cousland]

Well if Bhelen becomes Orzammars king he does increase trade with the surface and such.



So I could see surfacers becoming more prominent.

[Anarya]

They probably have their own rigid social order thing going on, just unofficially.

[Thrubeingcool13]

Felsi does mention that a bunch of the surfacer merchants form allegiances and vie for rank amongst themselves.

[Bruddajakka]

It's pretty interesting we learn so much about the surface Dwarves compared to the Dalish, and the ones beneath the stone. Sound like their are whole communities. Though Varric's "Legitimate Business" makes me wonder if it's going to something stereotypical.

[Anarya]

Thrubeingcool13 wrote...

Felsi does mention that a bunch of the surfacer merchants form allegiances and vie for rank amongst themselves.

It's pretty deeply ingrained in their culture. As soon as you get a sizable population of dwarves anywhere the cutthroat politics are probably unavoidable.

@brudda: Stereotypical how?

[Jarek_Cousland]

Anarya wrote...

Thrubeingcool13 wrote...

Felsi does mention that a bunch of the surfacer merchants form allegiances and vie for rank amongst themselves.

It's pretty deeply ingrained in their culture. As soon as you get a sizable population of dwarves anywhere the cutthroat politics are probably unavoidable.

@brudda: Stereotypical how?

I'd imagine he means that he hopes Varric wont be the stereotypical "Legitimate" buisness man.



I think Varric would be sort of nuetral. He doesnt let morals get too much in the way of his dealings, but he will draw a line if need be.

[Dave of Canada]

But should a surface dwarf return to Orzammar, would (s)he be better off (or the same) than the Casteless in Dust Town or would they just deny them entry? And how would a higher-ranked surfacer be treated amongst the dwarves of Orzammar?

Related note: Bhelen as King allows Casteless to fight in the Deep Roads for their people, does this also apply for Surfacers?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:29 .

[Jarek_Cousland]

@Dave.



See, thats the plothole I was talking about, sure they might be set up as a surface caste but if return to orzammar and are treated as dirt technically that would make them casteless.

[Anarya]

Dave of Canada wrote...

But should a surface dwarf return to Orzammar, would (s)he be better off (or the same) than the Casteless in Dust Town or would they just deny them entry? And how would a higher-ranked surfacer be treated amongst the dwarves of Orzammar?

Related note: Bhelen as King allows Casteless to fight in the Deep Roads for their people, does this also apply for Surfacers?

DA Wiki says this:

The dwarves we know on the surface are also considered casteless once
they leave Orzammar, though it is only relevant to those who return...
if they are allowed to return at all. Dwarven traders from the surface
are allowed to enter and to sell their goods (grains and wood are
especially valuable in the deep kingdom), but they have no rights and
are considered to be no more dwarven than those few humans and elves who
do the same. My guide explained that dwarves who leave for the surface
(the “sun-touched,” as they’re often called behind their backs) lose
their connection to the Stone and the favor of the ancestors, and thus
are worthy of little more than pity... for upon dying they are said to
be lost to the Stone forever. Put that way, it seems a sad existence
indeed.”


--An excerpt from “Stone Halls of the Dwarves” by Brother Genitivi, Chantry Scholar

[Mary Kirby]

Dave of Canada wrote...

But should a surface dwarf return to Orzammar, would (s)he be better off (or the same) than the Casteless in Dust Town or would they just deny them entry? And how would a higher-ranked surfacer be treated amongst the dwarves of Orzammar?

Related note: Bhelen as King allows Casteless to fight in the Deep Roads for their people, does this also apply for Surfacers?

Man, there are a lot of questions here.

1. A surface dwarf who returns to Orzammar is better off than a casteless from Dust Town, if only because the surfacer probably has money and the business connections to keep making money, and the duster doesn't.

B. When there's any kind of trouble in Orzammar, they do just shut the gates and deny even the surface dwarves entry.

iii. The social ranks of the surfacers aren't worth a bronto's behind to their Orzammar counterparts, however, again, rank generally means connections. If you played the dwarf noble origin, (or remember some of the other Orzammar quests involving the nobles) a lot of Noble caste houses have family -- cousins, nieces, nephews, distant relatives, but still in their House -- who go to the surface to conduct trade. It's a large part of where the nobles get their wealth, even if they don't like to acknowledge it.

d) Bhelen might let the surfacers fight for Orzammar, but most of them don't want to anyway.  Varric, for instance, was born topside, has never set foot in Orzammar, and considers himself a citizen of Kirkwall. He'd be much more inclined to fight for Kirkwall, or the Free Marches, than for the dwarven kingdom.

Edit: To clarify, "surface caste" is the more polite term that Noble and Merchant caste member use, typically when referring to family who have gone topside. It's not a caste. Hence why I stuck it in quotes.

Modifié par Mary Kirby, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:40 .

[Jarek_Cousland]

Man, really make Dwarves kinda sound like D***wads dont it?



EDIT: nvm, Mary descibed it better then that codex entry.

Modifié par Jarek_Cousland, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:40 .

[Dave of Canada]

Wow, thank you a lot for that answer Mary!


Sorry for all the questions! 

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:43 .

[mellifera]

Does Varric have a Kirkwall/Free Marches accent as opposed to 'dwarf' (Americanadian)?

[Anarya]

So hm. Can dwarves not have children with other races then? It makes me wonder why they haven't just intermarried with human society if dwarves like Varric are virtually no different from anyone else. Have they not been present on the surface for long, is it taboo, or are they just insular maybe?

[Dave of Canada]

Anarya wrote...

So hm. Can dwarves not have children with other races then?

(don't quote me on this)

I think it works like this...

Human + Human = Human.
Human + Elf = Human.
Human + Dwarf = Half-Dwarf (but extremely, extremely rare due to how most dwarves have trouble impregnanting women of their race already)
Dwarf + Elf = Dwarf (same thing as human + dwarf?)

[Viva la France]

Will we meet a dwarf named William Wallace? I'm really curious.

[Mary Kirby]

Anarya wrote...

So hm. Can dwarves not have children with other races then? It makes me wonder why they haven't just intermarried with human society if dwarves like Varric are virtually no different from anyone else. Have they not been present on the surface for long, is it taboo, or are they just insular maybe?

Well, for one thing, dwarves have enough trouble with fertility rates when they're breeding with other dwarves. With humans or elves the odds drop to "miniscule." For the other, there's still a lot of family and caste based politicking that goes on among surface dwarves, and they frequently marry strategically, much like their Orzammar kin.

[Saibh]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Anarya wrote...

So hm. Can dwarves not have children with other races then? It makes me wonder why they haven't just intermarried with human society if dwarves like Varric are virtually no different from anyone else. Have they not been present on the surface for long, is it taboo, or are they just insular maybe?

Well, for one thing, dwarves have enough trouble with fertility rates when they're breeding with other dwarves. With humans or elves the odds drop to "miniscule." For the other, there's still a lot of family and caste based politicking that goes on among surface dwarves, and they frequently marry strategically, much like their Orzammar kin.

Plus, they're short! HA HA HA!

Yeah. Okay, okay, I'll shut up. I like Varric anyway, mostly due to jaw.

Modifié par Saibh, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:52 .

[Anarya]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Anarya wrote...

So hm. Can dwarves not have children with other races then?

(don't quote me on this)

I think it works like this...

Human + Human = Human.
Human + Elf = Human.
Human + Dwarf = Half-Dwarf (but extremely, extremely rare due to how most dwarves have trouble impregnanting women of their race already)
Dwarf + Elf = Dwarf (same thing as human + dwarf?)

Wait I didn't think dwarves had fertility problems, I just thought they had children less often for whatever reason. But I'm no dwarf expert.

Edit: Ok I'm wrong, hah. I need to play more dwarves.

Modifié par Anarya, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:54 .