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[upsettingshorts]

Calla S wrote...
Isabela is human.

She's a spirit of Hedonism.

[kcwME]

Calla S wrote...

kcwME wrote...
She means someone who is human. Which means Anders.

Isabela is human.

Exactly. She is the "base human romance" for the male players. To clarify, when I say there needs to be one human romance, I mean per gender.

Modifié par kcwME, 14 février 2011 - 12:38 .

[foxtrotcharlie]

Glycerine Queen wrote...

That said, If there are only two slots I think it doesn't look likely that he's a full-fledged romance option, because I don't see Bioware not including a "vanilla" human male option ...to provide the baseline experience for most people who play the game, who demonstrably gravitate towards human characters.

In other cirucumstances, I would agree with you.  But, although I understand that we have not heard a great deal about Anders, from what we have seen, he truly does not seem to fit into the 'vanilla' human male option that you  are talking about.

 Let us look back at the human counterparts that you cited.  Both Kaiden and Jacob, can be considered, as you say, the 'vanilla' human male option.   Upon looking upon their personalities, past and views, they are very similar.  Both are all-around good-guys, they have their problems but they do their best to get around them--they are the ideal "good soldier".  In truth, I suppose that you can also include Alistair if you are to consider group him within this stereotype.  

But, upon looking at Anders, and what we have seen, this is definitely not the same Anders from Awakening.  
I will not go into too much detail because  Dave of Canada has expertly already explained this above, but I will re-itterate that there is, in fact, a dangerous, homocidal demon inside of Anders, one that I do not think will simply leave through the power of love. So, to reply to your original post, I think that the concept of needing a vanilla human male character is greatly impeded at the fact that your supposed male is possessed and,  is rapidly loosing grip on his mind and his actions.  

[kcwME]

foxtrotcharlie wrote...

Glycerine Queen wrote...

That said, If there are only two slots I think it doesn't look likely that he's a full-fledged romance option, because I don't see Bioware not including a "vanilla" human male option ...to provide the baseline experience for most people who play the game, who demonstrably gravitate towards human characters.

In other cirucumstances, I would agree with you.  But, although I understand that we have not heard a great deal about Anders, from what we have seen, he truly does not seem to fit into the 'vanilla' human male option that you  are talking about.

 Let us look back at the human counterparts that you cited.  Both Kaiden and Jacob, can be considered, as you say, the 'vanilla' human male option.   Upon looking upon their personalities, past and views, they are very similar.  Both are all-around good-guys, they have their problems but they do their best to get around them--they are the ideal "good soldier".  In truth, I suppose that you can also include Alistair if you are to consider group him within this stereotype.  

But, upon looking at Anders, and what we have seen, this is definitely not the same Anders from Awakening.  
I will not go into too much detail because  Dave of Canada has expertly already explained this above, but I will re-itterate that there is, in fact, a dangerous, homocidal demon inside of Anders, one that I do not think will simply leave through the power of love. So, to reply to your original post, I think that the concept of needing a vanilla human male character is greatly impeded at the fact that your supposed male is possessed and,  is rapidly loosing grip on his mind and his actions.  

Their personality doesn't have to be vanilla. They are vanilla in the sense they are human. So is Anders.

[soignee]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Calla S wrote...
Isabela is human.

She's a spirit of Hedonism.

I'll get posessed for that amirite

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Calla S wrote...
Isabela is human.

She's a spirit of Hedonism.

Let's hope it doesn't turn into a demon of censorship and modesty.

[Calla S]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Calla S wrote...
Isabela is human.

She's a spirit of Hedonism.

Hopefully all the time we'll be spending in and out of Chantries won't warp her into an abomination, too. Then we'd just have Fenris and Varric.

Also, I love how the only remaining argument is that Anders is human and Varric isn't. I wish reaction gifs were allowed at times like these because I'd have a fair few of them to share.

Modifié par Calla S, 14 février 2011 - 12:41 .

[mellifera]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Calla S wrote...
Isabela is human.

She's a spirit of Hedonism.

Let's hope it doesn't turn into a demon of censorship and modesty.

Teh powar of Hawke's love turns her into one. It makes her put on pants and a turtleneck.

(yukidama disapproves -23423423423842349234823954012)

[kcwME]

Calla S wrote...
Also, I love how the only remaining argument is that Anders is human and Varric isn't. I wish reaction gifs were allowed at times like these because I'd have a fair few of them to share.

Why is it a bad argument? I have no problem with Varric. I WANT a Varric romance. Why are you trying to peg me as prejudiced against dwarves? 

Fenris is pretty much locked into a romance, thus we need a vanilla human romance. The Devs themselves have said that they included humans into the setting because they needed, as posted before, something familiar, a starting point if you would. Something to ground the player in the world. That is the same reason why there is always a human romance.

[Dave of Canada]

kcwME wrote...

Sorry to bring this back up but I can't help but think this is directed in part at me:

Wasn't directed at you, was directed more at the people on the forums that have Garrus signatures but then flinch at the implications of a dwarf romance or describe Varric as a pedophile or something.

Which to me, is odd.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 14 février 2011 - 12:48 .

[foxtrotcharlie]

kcwME wrote...
Their personality doesn't have to be vanilla. They are vanilla in the sense they are human. So is Anders.

But, although that is part of it (and it is, come on..Jacob, Kaiden and Alistair are all-around-good-guys, can it be said that this is truly a coincidence? As said by V, "there is no such thing as coincidence, only the illusion of coincidence". ) I also mean Ander's capability to be any sort of 'full' romance, given his state.  And who knows, he may have parts of his old cat-loving personality pop out every now and again.  But still, we must remember, he is an abomination.  I feel sad for saying that, but its true.  He is definitely not the same, and I do not simply mean that he has a different personality.  I just have a hard time grasping the concept that though there is a demon inside Anders, he will still be able to participte in a full-blown romance.  Not just a fling, or flirtation.  <3

[kcwME]

Dave of Canada wrote...

kcwME wrote...

Sorry to bring this back up but I can't help but think this is directed in part at me:

Wasn't directed at you, was directed more at the people on the forums that have Garrus signatures but then flinch at the implications of a dwarf romance or describe Varric as a pedophile or something.

Which to me, is odd.

Ooo, well then I apologize for bringing that up. That is weird.

@fox
Possession or not, he's still looks human and that's what it comes down to. Looks. Which is really superficial and stupid, but Bioware is just going with the flow. Sad that we have to cater to such an outlook.

Modifié par kcwME, 14 février 2011 - 12:52 .

[Calla S]

kcwME wrote...

Calla S wrote...
Also, I love how the only remaining argument is that Anders is human and Varric isn't. I wish reaction gifs were allowed at times like these because I'd have a fair few of them to share.

Why is it a bad argument? I have no problem with Varric. I WANT a Varric romance. Why are you trying to peg me as prejudiced against dwarves? 

Wait, where did I say that? I don't remember saying that. Hm. Having such inflammatory opinions forced into your mouth is fun, especially considering I don't have a problem with you, Anders, Anders' fans, or what have you. I'm just amused that the fact that Varric is a dwarf is the only. thing. stacked. against him. The only thing. Do you seriously think one thing will keep BioWare from endorsing a LI? Because I know I don't.

[Marilynja]

I quite don't understand why people "fight" over those because it is pretty much known that which characters are going to be LI's was decided in the scenario writing phase, so even if we talk about it so much it won't change anything.
Not trying to be rude, by the way, sorry if it does sounds so.

Either way, I hope that all the companions - li's or not - are going to have interesting stories. what we have seen so far (concepts/screenshots/etc and the small introductions) is giving off a nice vibe. 
Would love to see character vids like for Origins.
IMO the story/plot itself is the most important, but the "romance" option for PC adds a flavour.
Probably no matter which are going to be chosen for the two spots, we are going to enjoy the game anyway - they all have a potential.

huh this is a bit random, I should go back to silent stalking.

[foxtrotcharlie]

foxtrotcharlie wrote...

kcwME wrote...
Their personality doesn't have to be vanilla. They are vanilla in the sense they are human. So is Anders.

But, although that is part of it (and it is, come on..Jacob, Kaiden and Alistair are all-around-good-guys, can it be said that this is truly a coincidence? As said by V, "there is no such thing as coincidence, only the illusion of coincidence". ) I also mean Ander's capability to be any sort of 'full' romance, given his state.  And who knows, he may have parts of his old cat-loving personality pop out every now and again.  But still, we must remember, he is an abomination.  I feel sad for saying that, but its true.  He is definitely not the same, and I do not simply mean that he has a different personality.  I just have a hard time grasping the concept that though there is a demon inside Anders, he will still be able to participte in a full-blown romance.  Not just a fling, or flirtation.  <3

kcwME wrote...
Why are you trying to peg me as prejudiced towards dwarves?

I'm sorry that you feel that way.  Truly, I only meant to open up an interesting debate, I love to debate.  I truly meant no harm, my apologies if I seemed to come off as acusetory---I assure you, that I was not trying to be. 

[kcwME]

Calla S wrote...

kcwME wrote...

Calla S wrote...
Also, I love how the only remaining argument is that Anders is human and Varric isn't. I wish reaction gifs were allowed at times like these because I'd have a fair few of them to share.

Why is it a bad argument? I have no problem with Varric. I WANT a Varric romance. Why are you trying to peg me as prejudiced against dwarves? 

Wait, where did I say that? I don't remember saying that. Hm. Having such inflammatory opinions forced into your mouth is fun, especially considering I don't have a problem with you, Anders, Anders' fans, or what have you. I'm just amused that the fact that Varric is a dwarf is the only. thing. stacked. against him. The only thing. Do you seriously think one thing will keep BioWare from endorsing a LI? Because I know I don't.

Lol  miscommunication abounds! It felt like you were trying to pidgeon-hole me as some sort of Dwarf-hater, but clearly not the case. Again I agree with you that it is stupid, but that's the way it is. I would love to romance Varric but there are a lot of stupid people out there and sadly Bioware has to cater to them.

PS. I think the root of it was this feeling I got that if you didn't think Varric was an LI, you were a hater or something. I dunno.

@fox
Let's hug it out! <3 I really don't mean to start anything or cause ill feelings, its just that the written word doesn't convey emotion really well and I seem to have gotten some wires crossed. My apologies!


--edit--

Ack! Forgot to add @Calla.
Yes, looks have held them back before. Tali was supposed to be a romance option in ME but they felt no one would want to romance a girl with "chicken legs."

Modifié par kcwME, 14 février 2011 - 12:59 .

[Calla S]

kcwME wrote...
Ack! Forgot to add @Calla.
Yes, looks have held them back before. Tali was supposed to be a romance option in ME but they felt no one would want to romance a girl with "chicken legs."

And see what happened? She became (arguably) one of BioWare's most popular characters. People go crazy over Tali. I think you're not giving BioWare enough credit when it comes to what they will and will not do. They've learned over the years what is within their means, and having a dwarven love interest could very well be one of them. 

[kcwME]

Calla S wrote...

kcwME wrote...
Ack! Forgot to add @Calla.
Yes, looks have held them back before. Tali was supposed to be a romance option in ME but they felt no one would want to romance a girl with "chicken legs."

And see what happened? She became (arguably) one of BioWare's most popular characters. People go crazy over Tali. I think you're not giving BioWare enough credit when it comes to what they will and will not do. They've learned over the years what is within their means, and having a dwarven love interest could very well be one of them. 

Yes but they did it after...

a.) the Fox thing (I feel revenge was a strong reason for so many alien romances in ME2)
b.) she had a strong fanbase so it was less of a gamble

And not to mention ME team =/= DA team.

Personally I think Varric is going to be a LI in DA3 because of the fanbase he will garner after launch.

Modifié par kcwME, 14 février 2011 - 01:05 .

[foxtrotcharlie]

kcwME wrote...
Possession or not, he's still looks human and that's what it comes down to. Looks. Which is really superficial and stupid, but Bioware is just going with the flow. Sad that we have to cater to such an outlook.

Hmm...perhaps this is just optimistic me coming out, but I don't believe that the devs for DA:2 would do something like that, which would be very counter-intuitive to the realistic flow of the character interactions, simply to satisfy some fans pre-established expectations. Especially in such an example as this. I believe that if there is one thing that they understand, it is how to make great, and most importantly, believable romances, which is arguably one of the most popular features in Bioware games to date. 

Lol, I say this on pupose because it is very debatable.  In my mind, Anders will, in fact, be like Aveline, a so-close-yet-so-far-away-LI, and that, I believe, would be beautiful (I also partially believe this because I have the feeling that his story is going to be very, very very melancholy ).  

(BTW, I have no true evidence for the statements above, just ol' optimistic-me talking.)

Modifié par foxtrotcharlie, 14 février 2011 - 01:11 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

kcwME
wrote...
Yes but they did it after...

a.) the Fox thing (I
feel revenge was a strong reason for so many alien romances in ME2)
b.)
she had a strong fanbase so it was less of a gamble

And not to
mention ME team =/= DA team.

I highly doubt Fox's reaction is a factor in their decision making any more than it was before the sexbox fiasco.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 14 février 2011 - 01:07 .

[mellifera]

Pseudocognition wrote...

kcwME wrote...
Yes but they did it after...

a.) the Fox thing (I feel revenge was a strong reason for so many alien romances in ME2)
b.) she had a strong fanbase so it was less of a gamble

And not to mention ME team =/= DA team.

I highly doubt Fox's reaction is a factor in their decision making any more than it was before the sexbox fiasco.

This.

[Calla S]

kcwME wrote...

Calla S wrote...

kcwME wrote...
Ack! Forgot to add @Calla.
Yes, looks have held them back before. Tali was supposed to be a romance option in ME but they felt no one would want to romance a girl with "chicken legs."

And see what happened? She became (arguably) one of BioWare's most popular characters. People go crazy over Tali. I think you're not giving BioWare enough credit when it comes to what they will and will not do. They've learned over the years what is within their means, and having a dwarven love interest could very well be one of them. 

Yes but they did it after...

a.) the Fox thing (I feel revenge was a strong reason for so many alien romances in ME2)
b.) she had a strong fanbase so it was less of a gamble

And not to mention ME team =/= DA team.

That doesn't detract from the fact that they now know that a character perceived to them as unattractive or potentially unopoular can, in fact, garner that level of support right out of the gate. I have faith enough in the writers and the creative designers that people will be tripping over themselves to get at Varric the moment they realize how charming he is.

[kcwME]

foxtrotcharlie wrote...

kcwME wrote...
Possession or not, he's still looks human and that's what it comes down to. Looks. Which is really superficial and stupid, but Bioware is just going with the flow. Sad that we have to cater to such an outlook.

Hmm...perhaps this is just optimistic me coming out, but I don't believe that the devs for DA:2 would do something like that, which would be very counter-intuitive to the realistic flow of the character interactions, simply to satisfy some fans pre-established expectations. Especially in such an example as this.

Lol, I say this on pupose because it is very debatable.  In my mind, Anders will, in fact, be like Aveline, a so-close-yet-so-far-away-LI, and that, I believe, would be beautiful (I also partially believe this because I have the feeling that his story is going to be very, very very melancholy ).  

Yeah, I get the feeling his story is going to be a heart-wrenching one. And I guess I'm just too jaded to think they would try to break down social mores w/o a half-gurantee. *bittertears*

[kcwME]

Calla S wrote...

kcwME wrote...

Calla S wrote...

kcwME wrote...
Ack! Forgot to add @Calla.
Yes, looks have held them back before. Tali was supposed to be a romance option in ME but they felt no one would want to romance a girl with "chicken legs."

And see what happened? She became (arguably) one of BioWare's most popular characters. People go crazy over Tali. I think you're not giving BioWare enough credit when it comes to what they will and will not do. They've learned over the years what is within their means, and having a dwarven love interest could very well be one of them. 

Yes but they did it after...

a.) the Fox thing (I feel revenge was a strong reason for so many alien romances in ME2)
b.) she had a strong fanbase so it was less of a gamble

And not to mention ME team =/= DA team.

That doesn't detract from the fact that they now know that a character perceived to them as unattractive or potentially unopoular can, in fact, garner that level of support right out of the gate. I have faith enough in the writers and the creative designers that people will be tripping over themselves to get at Varric the moment they realize how charming he is.

Oh, believe me, I think his fandom is going to be explosive. But now that they know that their feelings towards a character doesn't match up to what the fans think is actually more of a reason to play the wait-and-see game. To release a character as platonic, and if he/she garners a strong fanbase then they go for it. Again, I think I'm just really, really, really jaded or something.

[Tealsie]

So if Varric is supposed to be important in DA3, will he still be a companion, or will he be important, but seperate? (of course, if he's not an LI in this game, then he had better be a companion for the next too, so he'll at least have LI status 'then'. >_> )

...or was it Cass who's supposed to be important in DA3?