16 réponses à ce sujet

[Seagloom]

Can anyone tell me exactly how this spell works? I read its description in-game and also at the NWN Wiki, but both of them are vague about exactly how the concentration check works. Knowing the exact formula behind it would be nice. The spell seems fairly inconsistent in terms of what actions force an unsummon and which do not. It's probably a D20 roll somewhere, but I'd like to know for sure.

Modifié par Seagloom, 16 août 2010 - 02:21 .

[Shadooow]

Since some patch there is no formula anymore. Every 6 seconds (heartbeat) from you summon blade, is running check for "bad" actions. If you are performing one at that time, the blade is unsummoned.

[Seagloom]

Interesting. I had no idea a patch changed how it worked. Now I wonder if a hasted mage could squeeze in an action within the six seconds and avoid the heartbeat check. It would explain why I can haste the blade without unsummoning it if I'm fast enough. Thanks for the quick response.

[Shia Luck]

Seagloom wrote...
...I wonder if a hasted mage could squeeze in an action within the six seconds and avoid the heartbeat check. It would explain why I can haste the blade without unsummoning it if I'm fast enough. Thanks for the quick response.

*Grinning* Try quickslotting an emote. Might be 2 emotes then cast, 2 emotes then cast, and so on rather than alternately. i can't quite remember, sorry.

Have fun :happy:

[Genisys]

Essentially, this spells serves a great purpose, when combined with another spell...

This may or may not work with Greater Sanctuary, however, I've been able to get it to work, you may need to either cast it before or after you cast Black Blade of Disaster..
You can however, cast Invisibility...

The funny thing is, you get to watch these mages expend all of their spells on your black blade, while you prepare for the battle ahead, naturally you will want to get out of the way of the spell of the enemy that they will be shooting at the Black Blade...

This is one of my favorite combo to use on very hard encounters or bosses, especially mages, becuase they are powerless to attack you while your in greater sanctuary..

Give it a try, I'm sure you will quickly see the power of this combo...

(Either cast black blade and then go invisible or use greater sanctuary, or use this in reverse, casting black blade last)

Don't forget Dimiss & Banishment (I believe) will remove all summoned creatures.. (Something smart builder's give the bad guys - as a special ability for casters - only one use needed.)

Modifié par Genisys, 16 août 2010 - 04:51 .

[Ticladesign]

From a Builder's/DM point of view, that's rather needed, as BBoD can simply solo the strongest critters without any danger to the caster. So dispell, or unsummon creature spell are a nesessity, if you dont want pre-epic wizzards run around epic level areas. =/

[Shadooow]

BTW how to add immunity agains BBoD? Immunity via spell?



I even saw the BBoD killed demilich. Yes normally everytime BBoD hit demilich, the immunity visual appeared BUT, he sumonned elemental. So BBoD killed elemental and then got cleave, hit and the demilich's immunity didn't worked anymore...

[Seagloom]

That trick is exactly why a PW I played at several years ago scripted it so BBoD automatically dispelled Greater Sanctuary. Personally, I've never taken the latter spell as it, along with the two Missile Storms are so overpowered they kill the joy of playing a mage for me. I just wish it was possible to go for a titanic concentration modifier to make taking actions possible without working the system.

[Genisys]

Haha, but there is another solution my friends SHORTEN THE DURATION AND PREVENT SPAMMING...
Furthermore, you can just give the enemy a special ability - level 20 - Mords or Bannishment?




Unfortunately I find it rather commical that builders/devs will go out of their way to weaken the core game... lol

As if the monsters aren't challenging, on some of the modules it wasn't a matter of soloing, it was a matter of survival, beause some of these monsters had a 70 DC Implosion Spell they loved to spam...

BB is a very necessary evil in some situations, after all, let's look at all the other inneffective level 8th and 9th spells and say COME ON , players like to have fun too you know, and nothing is more commical than watching a black blade frustrate opponents, watch them get all worked up and laugh..

Modifié par Genisys, 18 août 2010 - 04:20 .

[SHOVA]

returning to how it works, could the scripting be changed to use a concentration check dc rather than the random bad action via heartbeat? I do know that shelgarns (sp) persistant blade, (1st lev) works like BBoD, however my characters always seem to get around the bad actions unsummon thing. I have also seen SPB, essentualy go to sleep, or be dazed, (honestly could not tell which,) which imho, should not happen as it has no mind to be dazed, confused or asleep, or whatever happened to it. So I am wondering can BBoD also be affected?

[Genisys]

If the player has quicken spell feat, which some love to use, this presents a problem, it should nevertheless, catch the bad action, but for the sake of satisfying those who do NOT like BBoD...

Like I said, the best way to make it not so uber is to shorten the duration / prevent spamming, and/or give the monsters a way to get rid of the creature, and if you really want to cheat / bend the rules to your will, you could use a percieve script to just get rid of it..

Then of course you could either, modify the BBOD to be weaker, or even mortal / non-plot, then of course, you could just disable the spell altogether or change it to a different spell, or summon a different creature altogether...

options options options... almost unlimited really..  thats' the heart of NWN...

Modifié par Genisys, 18 août 2010 - 05:19 .

[Shadooow]

SHOVA wrote...

returning to how it works, could the scripting be changed to use a concentration check dc rather than the random bad action via heartbeat? I do know that shelgarns (sp) persistant blade, (1st lev) works like BBoD, however my characters always seem to get around the bad actions unsummon thing. I have also seen SPB, essentualy go to sleep, or be dazed, (honestly could not tell which,) which imho, should not happen as it has no mind to be dazed, confused or asleep, or whatever happened to it. So I am wondering can BBoD also be affected?

It would be possible, current check is done in blade (creature) heartbeat. However what the DC should be? Its interesting idea and I probably try to rewrite it, however this question is very important. There is no number I can think of, maybe it shouldn't be static byt variable number? Well if it will be something like 80, players will find builds which get 80 and then they will be even more powerfull then now, cause they will be able to cast with BBoD as well...

[Genisys]

The best way to handle black blade would be by spell hooking (For Spell Actions), this way, when they cast another spell, it automatically gets rid of black blade, and it would be a pretty short function to return if the player had black blade, and if so, get rid of it..



I don't think there is a function for checking IF a player attacks..

[SHOVA]

ShaDoOoW wrote...

SHOVA wrote...

returning to how it works, could the scripting be changed to use a concentration check dc rather than the random bad action via heartbeat? I do know that shelgarns (sp) persistant blade, (1st lev) works like BBoD, however my characters always seem to get around the bad actions unsummon thing. I have also seen SPB, essentualy go to sleep, or be dazed, (honestly could not tell which,) which imho, should not happen as it has no mind to be dazed, confused or asleep, or whatever happened to it. So I am wondering can BBoD also be affected?

It would be possible, current check is done in blade (creature) heartbeat. However what the DC should be? Its interesting idea and I probably try to rewrite it, however this question is very important. There is no number I can think of, maybe it shouldn't be static byt variable number? Well if it will be something like 80, players will find builds which get 80 and then they will be even more powerfull then now, cause they will be able to cast with BBoD as well...

Off hand simple way,  gotta go with concentration. however, if I was feelling rather snarky, I would have a concentration check the first time, then have a concentration, spell craft, and perhaps disapline on the next action/spell cast. Might even have it run a will check, as it is there, just to see if the caster can maintain control of it, just as balors check and see if protection from evil has been cast. I would also love for multiple blades to be summoned in, perhaps a extra at 25, 2 at 30, 3 at 35, and 4 at 40. Same with SPB, with 2 at 5th, 3 at 10th, and 4 at 15th. might make that spell a bit more usefull at higher levels. I agree with Gen, best way to change it, is via the duration, I however would like to see it last longer, or at least be more intune with the mod time set buy the builder. I also wonder if having the spell blade, for both spells, join the party, is the best way to go, wouldn't spawning it in as hostile to the target be more effective, esp. in terms with bringing in multiple blades, than having it join the party? probably not when it comes to PVP.

[Onion Eater]

While I hate to come to the defense of arcane magic users...



It's a ninth level spell folks. Furthermore, to use it to it's full potential one needs to have more than a modicum of skill. I don't see the need to nerf anything here.



Of course, if specific creatures had the ability to banish... well, that's just good planning.

[MrZork]

SHOVA wrote...

returning to how it works, could the scripting be changed to use a concentration check dc rather than the random bad action via heartbeat? I do know that shelgarns (sp) persistant blade, (1st lev) works like BBoD, however my characters always seem to get around the bad actions unsummon thing. I have also seen SPB, essentualy go to sleep, or be dazed, (honestly could not tell which,) which imho, should not happen as it has no mind to be dazed, confused or asleep, or whatever happened to it. So I am wondering can BBoD also be affected?

Just as a side note, Shelgarn's does not do a concentration check. It behaves like most summoned associates and will (as intended) persist, regardless of hostile actions the caster takes toward others, until the spell expires, the summons is dispelled, etc.

BTW, I tend to agree that BBoD doesn't need to be nerfed. However, it wouldn't be a bad thing if it worked at least somewhat as described, preventing the caster from casting BBoD and then going on to cast other directly damaging spells.