22 réponses à ce sujet

[PsyrenY]

It seems to me that a lot of threads in these forums focus on the differences between Paragon and Renegade - i.e. those choices where it's obvious for your Shepard to go with one or the other.

But recently, I've been thinking about those grey areas - the points where a Paragon and a Renegade might actually choose the same dialogue option, just because it seems to fit Shepard in a holistic sense, or have better logic in the context of the story.

In short, what are some moments where your Paragon and your Renegade would both pick the same option? And what justification did you use?

For example: At the end of ME1, I could see both a Paragon and a Renegade picking Anderson for the Council ahead of Udina:
- The Paragon would do it because Anderson is more in favor of galactic cooperation and deserves to represent humanity after losing the Normandy.
- The Renegade would do it because renegades hate politicians, Udina spent the majority of ME1 getting in your way and Anderson is a soldier who would thus be less likely to act against military concerns.

Similarly, I could see both a Paragon and a Renegade taking the Renegade Interrupt to taze the blue suns guy fixing Tarak's gunship. I could also see both a Paragon and a Renegade killing Morinth instead of Samara.

Are there any other moments like those from your playthroughs, where you could justify a Paragon and Renegade taking the same course of action at a moral dilemma?

[AntiChri5]

Second Renegade interrupt on Garrus's recruitment.



How is that a moral issue? Its a fricken' robot.



Paragon interrupt on Jacobs loaylty.



Not taking that option does not make any kimdnof sense.

[PWENER]

Telling TIM to F*CK off and keep the NORMANDY.



Paragon: hates Cerberus



Renegade: hates TIM

[PsyrenY]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Second Renegade interrupt on Garrus's recruitment.
How is that a moral issue? Its a fricken' robot.

Paragon interrupt on Jacobs loaylty.
Not taking that option does not make any kimdnof sense.

I agree, neither of those had a lot to do with morals.

Perhaps they were just quicktime events, and BW went with the option that they fit the most.
Firing a gun is more renegade (for whatever reason), while saving a
crazy civilian from crazy killers is more paragon (for whatever reason.)

PWENER wrote...

Telling TIM to F*CK off and keep the NORMANDY.
Paragon: hates Cerberus
Renegade: hates TIM

After he set you up on the Collector Vessel, I could definitely see a Renegade turning against him - particularly a Renegade that fought Cerberus in ME1 and has a grudge.

[PsyrenY]

Explanations of the other two in the OP.



Tazing the Gunship repair-guy:

Paragon - it's a relatively humane (batariane?) and possibly non-lethal way of taking him out of commission. Plus, EDI gives you a heads-up on the way in.

Renegade - You screw over a Batarian with a sneak attack, what's not to love?



Killing Morinth:

Paragon - She's a soul-sucking abomination and the galaxy is better off.

Renegade - She's been murdering for at least 400 years longer than you have and you are now in her sights; it's you or her, the only question is when, so better to kill her while you can. Plus, her last victim was human.

[Skyblade012]

Shooting the tank of flammable gas during Mordin's loyalty mission. We know we're not giving up, so we're going to have to fight the guy soon anyway. And he just will not shut up. Shepard's line after the first three paragraphs is exactly what my Paragon Shepard was thinking at the time. 'You talk to much". We're enemies here, and your speech makes it clear there's no way to avoid that. So let's act like enemies.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Renegade Shepard hates Timmy but not Cerberus as a whole?



Hm, interesting. Never thought of it that way myself.

[PsyrenY]

Skyblade012 wrote...

Shooting the tank of flammable gas during Mordin's loyalty mission. We know we're not giving up, so we're going to have to fight the guy soon anyway. And he just will not shut up. Shepard's line after the first three paragraphs is exactly what my Paragon Shepard was thinking at the time. 'You talk to much". We're enemies here, and your speech makes it clear there's no way to avoid that. So let's act like enemies.

My Paragon did that one too, though not the similar situation in Miranda's loyalty with the gabby Eclipse guy.

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Renegade Shepard hates Timmy but not Cerberus as a whole?
Hm, interesting. Never thought of it that way myself.

It makes sense - particularly if RenShep wants to oust him and become the new Illusive Man/Woman.

[MythicalKnight]

Interrogating that ****** during Thane's loyalty mission. If you don't have the Renegade points to convince him you can use the interrupt to beat the information out of him.

[PsyrenY]

MythicalKnight wrote...

Interrogating that ****** during Thane's loyalty mission. If you don't have the Renegade points to convince him you can use the interrupt to beat the information out of him.

Ick! That's not something a Paragon would ever do though >_<

There was supposed to be a Paragon version of that mission - Thane would be bad cop, and you would use Paragon interrupts to keep him from wailing on Kelham.

But since you mention Thane's mission, the Paragon Interrupt at the end (that you distract Thane with) was pretty rough - shoot the light behind him, clock him to free the hostage - I could see both a Paragon and a Renegade doing that one. (A Paragon would not, of course, bust a cap in Talid's head.)

[Twilight_Princess]

Optimystic_X wrote...

MythicalKnight wrote...

Interrogating that ****** during Thane's loyalty mission. If you don't have the Renegade points to convince him you can use the interrupt to beat the information out of him.

Ick! That's not something a Paragon would ever do though >_<

There was supposed to be a Paragon version of that mission - Thane would be bad cop, and you would use Paragon interrupts to keep him from wailing on Kelham.

But since you mention Thane's mission, the Paragon Interrupt at the end (that you distract Thane with) was pretty rough - shoot the light behind him, clock him to free the hostage - I could see both a Paragon and a Renegade doing that one. (A Paragon would not, of course, bust a cap in Talid's head.)

Actually, I like to pretend that when my Paragon Shepard plays bad cop she's only acting. The dialogue between her and Thane beforehand made it sound like she was about to put on an act, it felt like a *wink wink* situation. When Kelham faints you can select the top dialogue option afterwards and say "He'll be fine" with a smile. I am aware that they just didn't have time to do the paragon interupts as they planned so this is the only alternative I could come up with. I know you can hold off and say paragony things but I don't like that option.  Thane doesn't even try to act like a bad cop even if you ask him too, so you both end up standing there looking gormless while Kelham pretty much laughs at you.

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 17 août 2010 - 02:11 .

[KOKitten]

Bring Down the Sky. My paragon and renegade Shepards both kill Balak. My Shepards aren't going to let a terrorist walk free to save three people and then find out in a few weeks that Balak was responsible for demolishing a colony. I can't justify letting him walk on the chance that I might run into him later. I can stop him now.

[Cheese Elemental]

Not give the Quarian admirals the evidence.

Paragon: It will lead to a bloody and senseless war over an isolated incident that nobody needs to know about.

Renegade: Tali's loyalty is why I'm here, and I need every ally that I can get.

[Nightwriter]

Optimystic_X wrote...

There was supposed to be a Paragon version of that mission - Thane would be bad cop, and you would use Paragon interrupts to keep him from wailing on Kelham.

Really?? Why did they cut this?

Did it get sent to the magical development land of Things That Never Were?

[FasterThanDark]

On Legions loyalty mission I could see P or an R picking either choice when it comes to what to do about the heretics.



For brainwashing -



Paragon: This saves the heretics from having to be killed, and will leave us with more troops when it's time to face the Reapers.



Renegade: Forcing these machines to be on my side is the ultimate final insult.



For blowing them up:



Paragon: the Geth believe in self-determination; brainwashing the heretics would be a violation of their own creed.



Renegade: Let's blow some **** up!

[JGDD]

Cheese Elemental wrote...

Not give the Quarian admirals the evidence.

Personally thought that was a bigger renegade choice than options given. I handed it over.

[Cheese Elemental]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

Not give the Quarian admirals the evidence.

Personally thought that was a bigger renegade choice than options given. I handed it over.

How so? It's giving the Quarians what they need to go to war with the Geth; a war they could be beaten bloody in while the Geth might be enslaved again.

[JGDD]

So be it. My current goal is to beat the Collectors, not diddle in Quarian politics. I also think this forces a new avenue on Tali with a different LI. One that was willing to sacrifice himself and everyone in his squad to protect her. It'll work out.

[Nightwriter]

I'm guessing some people think hiding the evidence is renegade because you are suppressing the truth, which they might perceive as dishonest.

It's certainly open to interpretation. Myself, I feel that it is wrong to lie, but it's worse to let war destroy two sentient races at the expense of good sense.

[JGDD]

That could be argued, but in actual play it pans out nearly the same either way. The only thing it really alters is Tali's alignment with you.

[PsyrenY]

Nightwriter wrote...

Really?? Why did they cut this?
Did it get sent to the magical development land of Things That Never Were?

Space, probably. The interrogation is already pretty lengthy (and the dialogue and interrupts probably made it a lot worse) so it was likely too much data to parse for one measly loyalty mission.

It still saddens me though. I'd probably end up picking the Paragon "I'm a Spectre" option when the lawyer shows up in any event, because that's just such a cool way of shutting down the lawyer.

@ Tali: Presenting the evidence anyway should indeed have been Paragon (extreme Paragon), and would have further emphasized that Paragon != Good.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 17 août 2010 - 02:39 .

[Madman123456]

I see several Reasons for Paragon and Renegade in the Decision what to do about the heretic Geth. Brainwash them or destroy them? I'd like to have further Arguments with Legion here, i could just give him the Perspective "they" think they lack. Can using the Virus be considered brainwashing? Not because they are Robots, they are a sentient Species and it doesn't matter to me if they where made from metal and Plastic instead of Bones and meat.

Isn't using the Virus more like "re-Brainwashing"; i figure that the Reaper used some Sort of "Virus" to "indoctrinate" some Geth.

I figure the Reaper did something that can be considered as Brainwashing just as much as the Virus i'm going to use.



Evidence may be the willingness to have the Reaper give them the Future, meaning essentially using Reaper Technology. They didn't do that before the Reaper showed up and there's quite a lot of Reaper tech lying around, like Mass Relays.

I'd like to ask Legion if the Heretics started to consider using other Tech rather then develop it themselves before Sovereign showed up.



Reasons for blowing the Geth up could be the memories that will be shared with the Collective. How will it influence the Geth? Considering the complete Reversal in the Heretics Behavior, it might paralyze them. Ok, that is rather unlikely, but it wouldn't surprise me if sovereign had some destructive Runtimes deposited somewhere, to be activated if a Geth somehow obtained a heretics memory Banks, just to prevent something like the audio file recorded by tali in me1 from happening again. Maybe a Copy of the "transform Geth to Heretic Virus".

Or maybe the Heretics themselves have planned ahead.



So i can see why Paragon Players would destroy the Heretic Station.

[MythicalKnight]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

MythicalKnight wrote...

Interrogating that ****** during Thane's loyalty mission. If you don't have the Renegade points to convince him you can use the interrupt to beat the information out of him.

Ick! That's not something a Paragon would ever do though >_<

There was supposed to be a Paragon version of that mission - Thane would be bad cop, and you would use Paragon interrupts to keep him from wailing on Kelham.

But since you mention Thane's mission, the Paragon Interrupt at the end (that you distract Thane with) was pretty rough - shoot the light behind him, clock him to free the hostage - I could see both a Paragon and a Renegade doing that one. (A Paragon would not, of course, bust a cap in Talid's head.)

Actually, I like to pretend that when my Paragon Shepard plays bad cop she's only acting. The dialogue between her and Thane beforehand made it sound like she was about to put on an act, it felt like a *wink wink* situation. When Kelham faints you can select the top dialogue option afterwards and say "He'll be fine" with a smile. I am aware that they just didn't have time to do the paragon interupts as they planned so this is the only alternative I could come up with. I know you can hold off and say paragony things but I don't like that option.  Thane doesn't even try to act like a bad cop even if you ask him too, so you both end up standing there looking gormless while Kelham pretty much laughs at you.

Exactly! I tried to do the paragon thing and have my Shep play the good cop but I still had to beat it out of him 'cause I wanted to make sure I got the information.