241 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

Elva dies from the plague by the time you return anyway.

Edit: And I should probably add that I can't stand it when someone calls a woman a **** in order to insult her.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 28 août 2010 - 05:42 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Elva dies from the plague by the time you return anyway.

Good.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 28 août 2010 - 05:59 .

[Berenice]

Oh! I hate this f**king pirate of Isabella .. She's alway cheating, she thinks its her the best of everything... (:

[EccentricSage]

But Soris argues in favor of taking the Bribe, leaving his friends and fiance to be raped all night long with a very good chance of being murdered. Afterward, he doesn't express any sorrow or regret. His whole tone of voice is as though he's more worried about what you think of him than what we've actually just done. If he looked the way Cammen looked, everyone would hate him.



Trian... He was an **** to my character the entire time. I got the strong impression that my character was not safe. He probably was being played too, of course, but that doesn't change his open hostility and I swear I remembered a veiled threat in one confrontation on his part, though I can't remember exactly what he said. I didn't feel guilty for killing him until their dad spoke to my character and was so distraught. I really think Trian doomed himself just as much as my character did, because we both allowed ourselves to be played. I think he doomed himself a little more by apparently having no redeeming qualities that I could see.

[Giggles_Manically]

Hmmm I never got that far into Vaughans dialouge to hear Soris say anything.



Can someone like Sarah put up the toolset nots to see that dialouge.

[Sarah1281]

Vaughan: You take that money and leave Denerim tonight. No repercussions, and you can go wherever you like.

PC: Then give me the money. I accept your deal.

Soris: But you won't hurt the women, right?

Vaughan: The women stay. They'll go home tomorrow, slightly worse for wear, and you'll be long gone. That's the deal. Take it or leave it.

PC: All right.

Vaughan: Then... it's a deal?

PC: Absolutely. Where's the gold?

Vaughan: Glad to see your priorities are in the right place. You leave the city tonight, and you never come back. Nobody hears about this--not my father, not your neighbors, <emp>nobody</emp>. <desc>Sigh</desc>

PC: So long as we get our money.

Vaughan: One of my men will bring you your money once you're outside the palace. Now, if you'll excuse me? We've a party to return to.



If you say no at any point you get:

Vaughan: Bah! I always regret talking to knife-ears! Now I'll just gut your ignorant carcasses, instead!



Soris does not ever say anything to try and convince you to take the bribe. When was the last time you played CE?



And this is what he says after you take the bribe:



Soris: Did we... do the right thing back there, Cousin? (Unsure, nervous)

(PC: Absolutely. Forced marriage versus freedom?

Soris: I suppose you're right. And the women will be fine... in time. (Hesitant))

(PC: I can keep your half if you're having second thoughts.

Soris: Not necessary. I suppose we'll all forget this happened, in time...)

(PC: I don't know. But it's done now.

Soris: True. (Not put at ease))

Soris: What do we tell the elder when we get back? (Nervous, a little worried)

(PC: Just let me do the talking.

Soris: Good. I couldn't even look him in the eye right now. (Tense))

(PC: We lie.

Soris: I guess that's all we can do. But it doesn't feel right. (Uneasy))

(PC: It doesn't matter. We'll be leaving anyhow.

Soris: I guess that was inevitable. Let's just get back to the Alienage, first. (Uneasy))

(PC: I don't care. I want to stash this gold.

Soris: We can hide it in the Alienage somewhere, I suppose. (Unsure) Let's just get back. I have a bad feeling about all of this...(Grim, disturbed by his conscience))



It sounds like Soris is greatly disturbed his his conscience here and not really at all concerned with what YOU think. Maybe you think that he shouldn't have agreed to take a share? He's just trying - and failing - to make himself feel better about what happened which is only natural to do and you're the one who made the decision in the first place. Honestly, blaming Soris for his reaction is like blaming Zevran because you took Wynne and unhardened Leliana to defile the ashes and he didn't talk about how horrified he was that he had to kill them both for YOUR decision.



And as far as Trian is concerned, he says 'I'd advise you to watch that tongue, dear sibling. Father will not live forever...' only after you tell him to either kiss your ass or to keep barking orders as you might care someday. You kind of started it there. Trian makes it really hard to like him but I always feel sorry for him.

[Giggles_Manically]

Thank you Sarah.



I hated Trian until I got to the Gauntlent, seeing his ghost was quite profound, and touching really.

Especially since my first noble blamed himself for not seeing Bhelen's ploy. He may not have liked Trian but didnt want to see him dead by a long shot.

[Zjarcal]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Vaughan: One of my men will bring you your money once you're outside the palace. Now, if you'll excuse me? We've a party to return to.

I think I just felt the urge to vomit.

Sarah1281 wrote...
Edit: And I should probably add that I can't stand it when someone calls a woman a **** in order to insult her. 

I hear you. It's like calling a man gay in order to insult him.

But I should shut up now, there's no need to derail threads.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 28 août 2010 - 06:39 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Zjarcal wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Vaughan: One of my men will bring you your money once you're outside the palace. Now, if you'll excuse me? We've a party to return to.

I think I just felt the urge to vomit.

What I cant hear you, have to get all the blood out of my ears.



There is no way I am taking the bribe, you have killed how many guards, and dogs at this point no way in hell you are getting away with it. Mind as well got the distance.

[CalJones]

Nice killshot. I recently played the male CE origin (I'd played the female version back in February) and took the bribe just to explore the dialogue. Ugh but it made me feel dirty. Vaughan really does have it coming.

[EccentricSage]

I swear I remember there being a line BEFORE my character agrees to the deal, where Soris seems eager to take the deal after Vaughn makes threats against the Alienage. At best, Soris is an idiot and a tool. We already killed everyone we encountered, and threatened a noble. Turning back isn't going to change that. It's just going to mean that the women will be raped all night long.

[Giggles_Manically]

Which is why I always kill Vaughan.

[Sarah1281]

EccentricSage wrote...

I swear I remember there being a line BEFORE my character agrees to the deal, where Soris seems eager to take the deal after Vaughn makes threats against the Alienage. At best, Soris is an idiot and a tool. We already killed everyone we encountered, and threatened a noble. Turning back isn't going to change that. It's just going to mean that the women will be raped all night long.

Yeah, and he knows that. That's why he and you plot to leave the Alienage which would have worked if you had hurried or just not went back to the Alienage at all. Why do you keep blaming him for the choices that the CE made? What action could Soris have taken that you feel would have been appropriate? Saying he didn't want his share of the CE's blood money? Attempting to kill Vaughan and company with his bow and getting himself killed? Lecturing you about what a terrible, bad person you were for accepting the bribe? 

Again, the analogy of holding Zevran responsible for you defiling the ashes and killing Wynne and Leliana comes to mind.

[Altius O83]

In my opinion, the worst ones are:

Lady Isolde: "Who ees dis wooMahn, teeGAhn?"
Marjolaine: "Nohnsense. I kno you, mai hLelhianah...Fouh, five men...you cahn deespatch eeZAHlee."
and Loghain: "I have NOHT shuuhrked my dyootee to the THROWNE, and NEIthah will any of YOU!!".

Loghain yelled a lot, but I guess I hate him because he's supposed to be a "hateable" character. Lady Isolde is a retarded rodent, and Marjolaine simply has a ridiculous accent that I love to imitate. I hate these characters in good way, though.

Modifié par Altius O83, 28 août 2010 - 08:37 .

[EccentricSage]

Sarah1281 wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

I swear I remember there being a line BEFORE my character agrees to the deal, where Soris seems eager to take the deal after Vaughn makes threats against the Alienage. At best, Soris is an idiot and a tool. We already killed everyone we encountered, and threatened a noble. Turning back isn't going to change that. It's just going to mean that the women will be raped all night long.

Yeah, and he knows that. That's why he and you plot to leave the Alienage which would have worked if you had hurried or just not went back to the Alienage at all. Why do you keep blaming him for the choices that the CE made? What action could Soris have taken that you feel would have been appropriate? Saying he didn't want his share of the CE's blood money? Attempting to kill Vaughan and company with his bow and getting himself killed? Lecturing you about what a terrible, bad person you were for accepting the bribe? 

Again, the analogy of holding Zevran responsible for you defiling the ashes and killing Wynne and Leliana comes to mind.

I remember, if you fully explore the options, and hesitate, Vaughn makes threats, and Soris encourages the PC to take the deal, rationalising it.  This is BEFORE you agree to take any blood money.  As far as I'm concerned, this makes him JUST as guilty and the PC should the PC take the deal.  I'm not saying it excuses the PC's actions, I'm just saying Soris is a tool.

Thye fact that he plans to leave the Alienage and not attempt to warn our people to do the same, is actually pretty disguesting and shows where his priorities lay.  It also does not make sence to me that a cruel PC who takes the money would go back to the Alienage.  I actually take issue with that aspect of the game.  But I don't think the fact that Soris is a tool absolves him from responsability for his part in it.


As for the Urn... If my PC feals that it is better to defile the ashes for some reason such as to weaken the Chantry or to gain something of tactical use for ending the Blight, then I do not think it is amoral to kill Wynne and Lelliana when they atack my Warden.  Because, you know, THEY attack the warden.  It's a total non-issue.

As for the Trian issue, my PC does not wish to live at his beck-and-call, and sees him as a cruel and harsh person.  It seems he would make an unpopular king, where as my PC is beloved by the people.  Not only is killing Trian the best thing to do for her own welfare, she is convinced it is the best thing to do for Orzamar.  I'm not sorry.

Modifié par EccentricSage, 28 août 2010 - 09:42 .

[Never]

I was suprised when Soris considered taking the bribe.

[Acero Azul]

 Am I the only one who liked morrigan?

[Sarah1281]

I explored the Vaughan conversation fully.



Soris says "But Cousin, what if he's right? They'll purge the Alienage again!" when you tell Vaughan you don't want to hear his deal. This is before Vaughan tells you anything about being bribed to keep the women. Soris is telling you that Vaughan has a point that killing him would probably cause a lot of trouble and so if Vaughan had a way to avoid that then they should hear him out. He then says "If-if you're sure... I'm with you" before hearing the deal if answer that you've come too far now and it will happen anyway.



If you say 'You can't buy me' then you get this:

Vaughan: And what about you? Does this woman speak for you?

Soris: I don't know, Cousin. That's a lot of money...

(PC: *any option but 'you think we should take it?'*

Soris: You're right. You're absolutely right.)

(PC: You think we should take it?

Soris: I don't know... but that <emp>is</emp> a lot of money. It's up to you./Will you let the women go?)



Given how ten silver is treated like such a blessed occurence, 400 times that has got to be extremely tempting. Soris is tempted. He doesn't suggest ditching them or anything and if he doesn't know about the womens' fate then he asks. He knows that it's ultimately up to you as if you pick a fight he won't get the money and if you choose to leave he won't be able to kill them on his own. I don't blame him for being tempted here and I think that if it was up to him then he ultimately would have turned it down. He's just overwhelmed and already concerned about the Alienage.



If you seem to think that anything your Warden decides to do is for the best then try to remember that Soris only goes along with the bribe if you agree to it so if you deciding it's for the best makes it okay then he can't be blamed if you're excused. If you don't feel that anything your Warden does is cool than replace that scenario with one you feel would NOT be okay and realize that if Zevran or anyone else was there they wouldn't actually try to stop you and may not even comment.



I'm not sure why you're defending your Trian hatred. I'm not telling you you're wrong or anything. I just mentioned that, while he does make it difficult to like him, I pity him. That doesn't really invalidate anyone else's viewpoint of him.

[Zjarcal]

EccentricSage wrote...

As for the Urn... If my PC feals that it is better to defile the ashes for some reason such as to weaken the Chantry or to gain something of tactical use for ending the Blight, then I do not think it is amoral to kill Wynne and Lelliana when they atack my Warden.  Because, you know, THEY attack the warden.  It's a total non-issue.

I don't think Sarah was questioning the morality behind killing Wynne and Leliana at the ashes. She meant that if someone were to blame Zevran for not being freaked out about killing them, it wouldn't be fair to blame him because it wasn't his decision, much like the decision to accept Vaughn's bribe doesn't lay on Soris.

[Monica21]

Acero Azul wrote...

 Am I the only one who liked morrigan?

I like her, and a lot of people do, but it seems to be more divided along gender lines. Most of her disapprovals come from a rational basis. The darkspawn are on Lothering's doorstep and you're intervening in a dispute between the Chantry and a merchant? Not to mention fighting bears and recovering lost amulets. She's right to say that you really don't have time to do that or to care about it. After seven playthroughs, being in Lothering lacks a certain sense of urgency for the player, but Morrigan doesn't know that the darkspawn will wait for you.

As for hated characters, it has to be the daughter in Wilhelm's Cellar, if only because I have to go through that stupid fire trap puzzle to save her.

[Giggles_Manically]

Eccentric may I please have your reasoning as to why you defile the ashes?

Mainly because this has to be near the top of derpy things to do in game. Outside siding with the Werewolves of course.

[EccentricSage]

Zjarcal wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

As for the Urn... If my PC feals that it is better to defile the ashes for some reason such as to weaken the Chantry or to gain something of tactical use for ending the Blight, then I do not think it is amoral to kill Wynne and Lelliana when they atack my Warden.  Because, you know, THEY attack the warden.  It's a total non-issue.

I don't think Sarah was questioning the morality behind killing Wynne and Leliana at the ashes. She meant that if someone were to blame Zevran for not being freaked out about killing them, it wouldn't be fair to blame him because it wasn't his decision, much like the decision to accept Vaughn's bribe doesn't lay on Soris.

I dissagree.  Who he is loyal to IS his decision.

If Soris tries to talk me into accepting that bribe, then he is most certainly a willing participant in selling out his friends.  And he does.  I explored the dialogue options thoughroly, and this was the thing that really convinced me he's a tool, not an honerable person.  It's what made me go from finding his personality mildly irritating, but his intentions noble, to thinking he's just a tool who stands for nothing.

[Sarah1281]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Eccentric may I please have your reasoning as to why you defile the ashes?
Mainly because this has to be near the top of derpy things to do in game. Outside siding with the Werewolves of course.

I don't think he was saying that he did do that so much as explaining that if he did then he would not be held accountable for Wynne and Leliana's death since they attack him over it since I used defiling the ashes in my example.

[Giggles_Manically]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Eccentric may I please have your reasoning as to why you defile the ashes?
Mainly because this has to be near the top of derpy things to do in game. Outside siding with the Werewolves of course.

I don't think he was saying that he did do that so much as explaining that if he did then he would not be held accountable for Wynne and Leliana's death since they attack him over it since I used defiling the ashes in my example.

Well yes I saw that part, I merely want to see why he did it.
Mainly since I cant find a single good reason to myself.

[Sarah1281]

EccentricSage wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

As for the Urn... If my PC feals that it is better to defile the ashes for some reason such as to weaken the Chantry or to gain something of tactical use for ending the Blight, then I do not think it is amoral to kill Wynne and Lelliana when they atack my Warden.  Because, you know, THEY attack the warden.  It's a total non-issue.

I don't think Sarah was questioning the morality behind killing Wynne and Leliana at the ashes. She meant that if someone were to blame Zevran for not being freaked out about killing them, it wouldn't be fair to blame him because it wasn't his decision, much like the decision to accept Vaughn's bribe doesn't lay on Soris.

I dissagree.  Who he is loyal to IS his decision.

If Soris tries to talk me into accepting that bribe, then he is most certainly a willing participant in selling out his friends.  And he does.  I explored the dialogue options thoughroly, and this was the thing that really convinced me he's a tool, not an honerable person.  It's what made me go from finding his personality mildly irritating, but his intentions noble, to thinking he's just a tool who stands for nothing.

He doesn't try to talk you into anything. He just says, when pressed, that he's not sure what to do after having roughly two minutes to make a decision and that it doesn't really matter what he thinks since you're the one making the decision.

If Soris decides to take the bribe and you decide to attack, Soris can't take the bribe.
If Soris decides to attack and you decide to take the bribe, Soris dies in a suicide attack on three or four armed men while he only has a bow he doesn't appear to be trained to use.