83 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

DA 2 would be more awesome if it was a roguelike with dialogue and story. Perma death and everything.



Random dungeons



No choice, but the ultimate platter of ways to be killed with no mercy, with no prejudice

[HTTP 404]

Dave of Canada wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

DA2 would be awesome if it started out choosing where you wanted to go with minimal prologue. makes replaying easier.

The last boss!

[level 1 Hawke vs last boss]

you know what?  I support this!  no scale-backed enemies, you should be able to be foolish if you want to be and go at the last boss get your ass handed.  that way you learn the hard way and click load save.   

[Dave of Canada]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

DA2 would be awesome if it started out choosing where you wanted to go with minimal prologue. makes replaying easier.

The last boss!

[level 1 Hawke vs last boss]

you know what?  I support this!  no scale-backed enemies, you should be able to be foolish if you want to be and go at the last boss get your ass handed.  that way you learn the hard way and click load save.   

Sort of similar to the Chrono Trigger Lavos boss fight? Where you can fight him early on but get your ass handed to you?

[Clover Rider]

Dave of Canada wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

DA2 would be awesome if it started out choosing where you wanted to go with minimal prologue. makes replaying easier.

The last boss!

[level 1 Hawke vs last boss]

you know what?  I support this!  no scale-backed enemies, you should be able to be foolish if you want to be and go at the last boss get your ass handed.  that way you learn the hard way and click load save.   

Sort of similar to the Chrono Trigger Lavos boss fight? Where you can fight him early on but get your ass handed to you?

I did that .

[andar91]

I pretty much agree with all of the points you've outlined.

[wwwwowwww]

I actually think the Origins could have been done better to add more choices lol.

[nhsk]

The origin stories had some cool ideas but also really limited your origin in the same way as they forced certain skills on you. While ME and ME2 have a limited character where you are always Shepard I didn't mind that as I had the background choices which gave only vague pointers on what you did earlier in life, with 1 sidequest for each background (spacer, colonial or earthborn) and 3 personalties (War Hero, Ruthless or Sole Survivor) opening up for all sort of interpretations to how your character would be like.

Unlike the mage origin f.example where I can be a stupid idiot helping out Jowan and the fat cow or I could rat them out, but plainly refusing to partake in such foolishness oh no I could not.
Or the HN or DN which are solely based on revenge.

ME had even more backgrounds than DA:O if you take all the different combinations and add them together so if something similiar happens with Hawke it would be great, and perhaps, even as we are all Hawke, the introductions might differ depending on the backgrounds and classes we choose - IE. Warrior Hawke participating in a militia defense being named the champion, the rogue perhaps duelling his way to champion status and the mage, well, dunno with the mage but you get the idea.

Modifié par nhsk, 17 août 2010 - 08:26 .

[biomag]

To be honest, the origins were a major failure after the first hour of gameplay. ME 1 backgrounds had the same impact... yes a few called you "spacer/colonist/cousland/ELF/..." but it changed nothing except a single small part in the game being the personal quest.



Still people on this board will contiue whine about the missing origins and how incredibly great BG 2 was and how open and how many choices you had and that everything was soooo great back then. As soon as DA 2 is released we will keep hearing how incredibly great Origins was. Without faults and it just kicked a**es... what a great time and huge blast it was... once DA 3 comes out the same BS once more, but then DA 2 will be the best game ever...

[Russalka]

biomag wrote...

To be honest, the origins were a major failure after the first hour of gameplay. ME 1 backgrounds had the same impact... yes a few called you "spacer/colonist/cousland/ELF/..." but it changed nothing except a single small part in the game being the personal quest.



Still people on this board will contiue whine about the missing origins and how incredibly great BG 2 was and how open and how many choices you had and that everything was soooo great back then. As soon as DA 2 is released we will keep hearing how incredibly great Origins was. Without faults and it just kicked a**es... what a great time and huge blast it was... once DA 3 comes out the same BS once more, but then DA 2 will be the best game ever...

Whining always happens and it is always the loudest. Get used to it.

In any case, I am still hoping that they will have something like they did in NWN2, but better. Background traits like being the wild child or a farmer, or perhaps the town bully.
It doesn't have to be and it cannot be something that changes the storyline substantially, for it is a more definite story we are experiencing this time, but something smooth that could give some interesting nuances and situations from time to time.

They've had games to perfect this sort of thing. I hope they try again.

[wwwwowwww]

biomag wrote...

To be honest, the origins were a major failure after the first hour of gameplay. ME 1 backgrounds had the same impact... yes a few called you "spacer/colonist/cousland/ELF/..." but it changed nothing except a single small part in the game being the personal quest.

I wouldn't say major failure, but your correct in that they had very little impact on the game after you got to Ostagar. Hell your race played a very little role after the Origin which I thought was pretty sad. People who've looked down on elves their entire lives suddenly respect you because your a gray warden? lol I think not.

[biomag]

Russalka wrote...

biomag wrote...

To be honest, the origins were a major failure after the first hour of gameplay. ME 1 backgrounds had the same impact... yes a few called you "spacer/colonist/cousland/ELF/..." but it changed nothing except a single small part in the game being the personal quest.



Still people on this board will contiue whine about the missing origins and how incredibly great BG 2 was and how open and how many choices you had and that everything was soooo great back then. As soon as DA 2 is released we will keep hearing how incredibly great Origins was. Without faults and it just kicked a**es... what a great time and huge blast it was... once DA 3 comes out the same BS once more, but then DA 2 will be the best game ever...

Whining always happens and it is always the loudest. Get used to it.

In any case, I am still hoping that they will have something like they did in NWN2, but better. Background traits like being the wild child or a farmer, or perhaps the town bully.
It doesn't have to be and it cannot be something that changes the storyline substantially, for it is a more definite story we are experiencing this time, but something smooth that could give some interesting nuances and situations from time to time.

They've had games to perfect this sort of thing. I hope they try again.

Yes, but what's the point of 6 different Origins that have nearly no difference at all in the main story? I hoped for small quests regarding your past or a big quest that spawned and developed itself beside the main story so that every origin had a part of its own and so that it makes sense to play til the end with each one. Sorry, but the end with just a cameo from your past was more than just weak. The whole Origin part was a huge wasted opportunity to make something special. In the end it were just 6 different prologs and 1-2 unique dialogs. Nothing I will miss in DA2.


..and yes, I know they will always whine... its part of their charm:lol:

[KLUME777]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

It doesn't bother me really because I have found that the origins didn't have much to do at all with the main game they all pretty much merge into the same character after the origins section is over.

Exactly.  There's some RP flavor to it--which I love and wish there was more of, don't get me wrong--but ultimately it doesn't really matter for the main plot whether your Warden is a cantankerous dwarven duster or a prim and proper human noble.

Well, it does sorta. You can become queen or king if your human Noble.

[Sable Rhapsody]

KLUME777 wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

It doesn't bother me really because I have found that the origins didn't have much to do at all with the main game they all pretty much merge into the same character after the origins section is over.

Exactly.  There's some RP flavor to it--which I love and wish there was more of, don't get me wrong--but ultimately it doesn't really matter for the main plot whether your Warden is a cantankerous dwarven duster or a prim and proper human noble.

Well, it does sorta. You can become queen or king if your human Noble.

I said the main plot.  No matter what the Alistair fans (of which I am one, and I prefer Warden Alistair) might say, the main plot is you stopping the Blight, and whether you're a queen or a pauper is largely irrelevant to that fight.  

Nerevar-as wrote...

About the OP, the Origins also made the game richer, they are not just background, all happened in a way or the other whether Duncan was there or not. It feels different confronting Howe with Cousland, going back to Orzammar with two dwarfs from opposites ends of their system and also personal stakes in the succession, or going back to the Alienage and confronting Loghain (mage and dalish, not so much).

I 100% agree.  The origins added some marvelous roleplaying flavor, though I still thought the Dalish got the short end of the stick overall.  The RP for a mage was present, but more subtle.  You had to actively go looking for it except during the Circle tower quests.  However, as others in this thread had pointed out, the Origins have no substantive effect on plot or party characters, and only offer some additional roleplaying customizability..  Getting rid of the origins gets rid of that piece of roleplaying, but it also frees up room and dev effort for other ways of opening up the roleplaying.

druplesnubb wrote...

Yes, no other game has six origin stories like Dragon age does but that feels more like a reason to keep them rather than get rid of them. The origin stories in DAO were a step forward (despite their flaws) and this feels like a step backwards.

I like the Origins.  I think they were a good idea, implemented somewhat patchily.  My point was not one about the relative merits of multiple vs. fixed origin, but rather pointing out that the cries of "OH NOES TAKING AWAY TEH OLD-SCHOOL RPG ELEMENTS" are 100% invalid when it comes to origin stories.  Though personally, I'm also fine with well-implemented fixed origin.  Baldur's Gate was rooted in fixed origin, and it was a game made of the stuff of awesome.

[Russalka]

I believe that replayability is also in mind, when Bioware develops games, especially DA2.

What better way than to give somewhat of a background or make class-specific quests, situations, dialogue, or all of that?

[Sable Rhapsody]

Russalka wrote...

I believe that replayability is also in mind, when Bioware develops games, especially DA2.
What better way than to give somewhat of a background or make class-specific quests, situations, dialogue, or all of that?

Fair enough.  And we already know that Hawke's bro is a warrior and his/her sis is an apostate mage.  For the mage, that leads to obvious RP possibilities.  If Bethany's apostate, Hawke probably is too since I can't see the Circle taking one sib and letting the other off scot-free.  

[addiction21]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Baldur's Gate was rooted in fixed origin, and it was a game made of the stuff of awesome.

Which makes for great entertainment when it is the same people that praise BG in all its glory then cry about the origins being taken out.
I liked the origins. THey were neat but other then the first hour or so they added little to nothing to the game.
I said it over a year ago that if DA2 did not have the origins tag then it would be back to the norm and thats not a bad thing.
As I see it the (and this is just wild speculation) the idea of the different origins was a gimmick that made it into the game and then those developers went "awwwwwwwwwwww **** now we need 6 stories with unique interactions thruout the entire game... **** that"
Removing the 6 choices takes away some of the roleplaying but thats it.

Since the new buzz argument is "ITS BEING DUMBED DOWN" I dare any person to elaborate on how that is so for the origin stories and their removal.

[Sable Rhapsody]

addiction21 wrote...

Which makes for great entertainment when it is the same people that praise BG in all its glory then cry about the origins being taken out.
I liked the origins. THey were neat but other then the first hour or so they added little to nothing to the game.
I said it over a year ago that if DA2 did not have the origins tag then it would be back to the norm and thats not a bad thing.
As I see it the (and this is just wild speculation) the idea of the different origins was a gimmick that made it into the game and then those developers went "awwwwwwwwwwww **** now we need 6 stories with unique interactions thruout the entire game... **** that"
Removing the 6 choices takes away some of the roleplaying but thats it.

Since the new buzz argument is "ITS BEING DUMBED DOWN" I dare any person to elaborate on how that is so for the origin stories and their removal.

At this point I think it's gone from funny to just plain sad.  I don't mind strong opinions, but ones rooted in blatant wrongness and inability to put two and two together make puppies cry.

As for the origins, I felt like they sometimes sacrificed roleplaying depth for breadth.  The two need to be balanced; breadth encourages replay while depth encourages emotionally engaging roleplaying.  But I felt like the origins sometimes stretched the RP a little too thin.  Hopefully they'll fix that in DA2.

[Havokk7]

And a few more:

The Witcher
Customize: Nothing
Customization's bearing on the game: N//ABackground: Set.  You're Geralt of Rivia
[/list]Arcanum
Customize: race, gender, appearance, stats, skills, background (affects skills only)
Customization's bearing on the game: NoneBackground: You're a survivor of an airship crash. There is no fated story, the game has a lot of "sandbox-like" behaviour, there is a story but you don't have to follow it as there are lots of things you can do
[/list]Divinie Divinity
Customize: class, stats, skills, (race? gender? I don't remember)

Customization's bearing on the game: NoneBackground: You have a divine destiny
[/list]
The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

Customize: race, gender, appearance, class, stats, skills

Customization's bearing on the game: NoneBackground: Like Arcanum, the game is very "sandbox-like",
[/list]

[Havokk7]

And a few more:

The Witcher
- Customize: Nothing
- Customization's bearing on the game: N/A
- Background: Set.  You're Geralt of Rivia

Arcanum
- Customize: race, gender, appearance, stats, skills, background (affects skills only)
- Customization's bearing on the game: None
- Background: You're a survivor of an airship crash. There is no fated story, the game has a lot of "sandbox-like" behaviour, there is a story but you don't have to follow it as there are lots of things you can do

Divine Divinity
- Customize: class, stats, skills, (race? gender? I don't remember)
- Customization's bearing on the game: None
- Background: You have a divine destiny

The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

- Customize: race, gender, appearance, class, stats, skills
- Customization's bearing on the game: None
- Background: You are a freed slave. Like Arcanum, the game is very "sandbox-like",

B

Modifié par Havokk7, 30 août 2010 - 05:37 .

[Morroian]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
As for the origins, I felt like they sometimes sacrificed roleplaying depth for breadth.  The two need to be balanced; breadth encourages replay while depth encourages emotionally engaging roleplaying.  But I felt like the origins sometimes stretched the RP a little too thin.  Hopefully they'll fix that in DA2.

QFT, strongly.

[Riona45]

To be fair, many of the games mentioned in the OP did have dialogue options and/or flavor text based on how you customized your character, just not that much.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Riona45 wrote...

To be fair, many of the games mentioned in the OP did have dialogue options and/or flavor text based on how you customized your character, just not that much.

And that's my schtick.  If they did have dialogue options or flavor text, it was a line or two at most, significantly less than DA:O.  In many cases, certain customization options didn't even make any sense.  Some of the longer-lived races certainly come to mind for Baldur's Gate.

Meh.  As I've said before on the forums, I don't care HOW the roleplaying options are done so long as they are done well.  PS:T was done well.  So was some of the origins material in DA:O.  So was Baldur's Gate.  I'm not picky about the ways in which BioWare hides their plot and character rails as long as I don't notice them.

[smitty1984]

i'm not sure spoilt is a word. i dont know just doesnt seem right

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...


And that's my schtick.  

I undestand, I just like to be precise.

[Sable Rhapsody]

smitty1984 wrote...

i'm not sure spoilt is a word. i dont know just doesnt seem right

Since when were proper grammar, punctuation, and word choice salient concerns on the Interwebs?   And if you're a tremendous nerd like me, the word is a past participle of the verb "spoil," used here as part of an idiom.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 30 août 2010 - 06:13 .