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hybrid compromise


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#26
KainrycKarr

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tiberius_adamantine wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Bioware already wrote biological incompatibilty by making Turians/Quarians share a different body-chemical system that is poisonous(or vice versa) to humans.


They've also brought up different genetic engineering/experiments a number of times as well. Enough times to make this plausible.


It's not going to happen. It be almost as silly as Shepard being resurrected.

#27
tiberius_adamantine

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KainrycKarr wrote...

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Bioware already wrote biological incompatibilty by making Turians/Quarians share a different body-chemical system that is poisonous(or vice versa) to humans.


They've also brought up different genetic engineering/experiments a number of times as well. Enough times to make this plausible.


It's not going to happen. It be almost as silly as Shepard being resurrected.


how do you figure?

#28
Zan51

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I write SF books, and yes, they are published. I have felinoid aliens and I wanted them to breed with humans. There is no work around with the laws of physics as they are in this universe, and I know this because I was asking for advice one of the foremost genetic scientists who developed In Vitro Fertilization in the UK. He also helps design aliens for writers like Ann McCaffrey and Larry Niven. In UK SF cons and fandom we are lucky to have him at the major UK Easter conventions.

He did say I could have my people compatible only if I used... magic. ;p So my novels took a slight Fantasy direction as well as their SF one.



So sadly, no, you cannot have hybrids UNLESS a large fantasy element is introduced into the game to explain the laws of science bending for this to happen...

#29
PWENER

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THE SOLUTION!!!



We use magic!!!

#30
tiberius_adamantine

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Zan51 wrote...

I write SF books, and yes, they are published. I have felinoid aliens and I wanted them to breed with humans. There is no work around with the laws of physics as they are in this universe, and I know this because I was asking for advice one of the foremost genetic scientists who developed In Vitro Fertilization in the UK. He also helps design aliens for writers like Ann McCaffrey and Larry Niven. In UK SF cons and fandom we are lucky to have him at the major UK Easter conventions.
He did say I could have my people compatible only if I used... magic. ;p So my novels took a slight Fantasy direction as well as their SF one.

So sadly, no, you cannot have hybrids UNLESS a large fantasy element is introduced into the game to explain the laws of science bending for this to happen...


I would argue that Reaper tech seems to come close to making this possible, if they can't do it already. Besides, the science of ME is at a much higher level than what we are currently capably of.

#31
Zan51

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It's not the tech level, it is the incompatibility. You cannot make an Elephant grow a Mastodon, which is why Jurassic Park is scientifically impossible, thankfully - though I love the movies! It's more like how oil and water never mix, and you can't make them. I forget the exact explanation, it was many years ago.

#32
tiberius_adamantine

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Zan51 wrote...

It's not the tech level, it is the incompatibility. You cannot make an Elephant grow a Mastodon, which is why Jurassic Park is scientifically impossible, thankfully - though I love the movies! It's more like how oil and water never mix, and you can't make them. I forget the exact explanation, it was many years ago.


So you think that even extensive genetic rewrite or other possible bioengineering couldn't produce it, even in a lab?

Modifié par tiberius_adamantine, 17 août 2010 - 04:25 .


#33
Sigma Tauri

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tiberius_adamantine wrote...
Besides, the science of ME is at a much higher level than what we are currently capably of.


The science of ME already contains a fantasy element, and a certain degree of artistic license.

#34
Zan51

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A genetic rewrite of the same genes is not making them something else, it is working within that 4 strand DNA, not making it into a 2 strand human like DNA.



And sure, yes, there is a fantasy element in ME2,just forgot about the issue I mention below, and because of that they can do it, just they can't do it without that element. :) After all, isn't there a half human asari kid in one version of ME1 brought into ME2, if you as male Shepard romanced Liara?

#35
irene9876

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@OP
If you really want to start a family with your alien lover, why can't you just adopt?  This way Bioware won't have to pull some amazing sci-fi magic but you'll still have kiddies.

Modifié par irene9876, 17 août 2010 - 04:39 .


#36
Chuvvy

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Yes, let's also **** on genetics.

#37
tiberius_adamantine

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irene9876 wrote...

@OP
If you really want to start a family with your alien lover, why can't you just adopt?  This way Bioware won't have to pull some amazing sci-fi magic but you'll still have kiddies.


Adoption wouldn't provide a plotline element that is equal to the creation of the hybrid child. It just isn't the same.

Modifié par tiberius_adamantine, 17 août 2010 - 04:42 .


#38
Inquisitor Recon

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Shepard's a damned marine. He/she shouldn't be wasting their time on some horrible experiment bound to result in some sort of abomination.



(Excluding the times when incompetent scientists screw up Cerberus experiments.)


#39
epoch_

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What is this I don't even.

was op serious?

Modifié par epoch_, 17 août 2010 - 04:46 .


#40
Zan51

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You can always clone him/her - either Shepard or the partner. :D

#41
irene9876

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tiberius_adamantine wrote...

irene9876 wrote...

@OP
If you really want to start a family with your alien lover, why can't you just adopt?  This way Bioware won't have to pull some amazing sci-fi magic but you'll still have kiddies.


Adoption wouldn't provide a plotline element that is equal to the creation of the hybrid child. It just isn't the same.


But even in your OP you said the hybrid child would only be a mention at the end of the game, which is where I'd expect an adopted kid to be mentioned.  As far as I'm concerned, the entire plotline as you described it, is meaningless and distracting from the main story.  Genetic research and engineering is common in Mass Effect, so I don't see any compelling reason for Shepard to go poking his/her nose into any labs unless the writers were trying to contrive a hybrid into the story.  Having an end-game option for Shepard to adopt avoids all this.

#42
Zan51

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Shepard doesn't really seem the home-body type to me, not after all he/she has been through... but that's just my take on it, no need to spread it around... ;p

#43
tiberius_adamantine

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irene9876 wrote...

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

irene9876 wrote...

@OP
If you really want to start a family with your alien lover, why can't you just adopt?  This way Bioware won't have to pull some amazing sci-fi magic but you'll still have kiddies.


Adoption wouldn't provide a plotline element that is equal to the creation of the hybrid child. It just isn't the same.


But even in your OP you said the hybrid child would only be a mention at the end of the game, which is where I'd expect an adopted kid to be mentioned.  As far as I'm concerned, the entire plotline as you described it, is meaningless and distracting from the main story.  Genetic research and engineering is common in Mass Effect, so I don't see any compelling reason for Shepard to go poking his/her nose into any labs unless the writers were trying to contrive a hybrid into the story.  Having an end-game option for Shepard to adopt avoids all this.


Would you say that any other side mission or mission that was not absolutely necessary was meaningless and distracting? The idea is that the facility poses the danger of releasing genetically altered "super-soldiers" with a potential for assisting terrorist or shadow organizations. That would be the reason for investigating it, or the writers could use any number of other possibilities. I said that the kid itself would show up at the end, but might be mentioned beforehand. The significance of the hybrid child isn't just for the Shepard family, but for the galaxy as a whole. The way that people look at race might change for the better. The mission itself if meant to provide something for every player, the hybrid child being just one option.

#44
Inquisitor Recon

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Time for this discussion to stop being serious, time to take out the shovels and beat thing thing back six-feet under.

#45
IanPolaris

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I'm sorry but there are NOT plausible ways of getting around the difficulties for Turian/Humans or Quarian/Humans (or for that matter either Turians or Quarians with any other race in the galaxy).



Why? Chirality. That's why. Quarian and Turian Amino acids (both Proteins and DNA) are "Right-handed" in chirality. Everybody else is left-handed.



That means the DNA from a Quarian (or Turian) can't even link up with human DNA even in a lab, and mixed chirality would be almost instantly lethal anyway to anything above the level of a virus.



The game (correctly) makes a huge deal about this. Quarian/Turian proteins, amino acid, and DNA does not play nice with any other species in the galaxy.



-Polaris

#46
irene9876

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tiberius_adamantine wrote...

Would you say that any other side mission or mission that was not absolutely necessary was meaningless and distracting? The idea is that the facility poses the danger of releasing genetically altered "super-soldiers" with a potential for assisting terrorist or shadow organizations. That would be the reason for investigating it, or the writers could use any number of other possibilities. I said that the kid itself would show up at the end, but might be mentioned beforehand. The significance of the hybrid child isn't just for the Shepard family, but for the galaxy as a whole. The way that people look at race might change for the better. The mission itself if meant to provide something for every player, the hybrid child being just one option.


Actually, yes.  There are a few side missions that come to mind that were meaningless and distracting.  My point, however, is that you'd write an entire plotline that contrives a hybrid into the ME story in order to satisfy yourself while a perfectly acceptable alternative (adoption) can be given without forcing the entire fanbase to accept your fantasy.

And no, this doesn't mean I expect Shepard to be a family person in the epilogue.

Modifié par irene9876, 17 août 2010 - 05:33 .


#47
tiberius_adamantine

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irene9876 wrote...

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

Would you say that any other side mission or mission that was not absolutely necessary was meaningless and distracting? The idea is that the facility poses the danger of releasing genetically altered "super-soldiers" with a potential for assisting terrorist or shadow organizations. That would be the reason for investigating it, or the writers could use any number of other possibilities. I said that the kid itself would show up at the end, but might be mentioned beforehand. The significance of the hybrid child isn't just for the Shepard family, but for the galaxy as a whole. The way that people look at race might change for the better. The mission itself if meant to provide something for every player, the hybrid child being just one option.


Actually, yes.  There are a few side missions that come to mind that were meaningless and distracting.  My point, however, is that you'd write an entire plotline that contrives a hybrid into the ME story in order to satisfy yourself while a perfectly acceptable alternative (adoption) can be given without forcing the entire fanbase to accept your fantasy.

And no, this doesn't mean I expect Shepard to be a family person in the epilogue.


I'm not the only one that thinks this is a good idea. Also I have repeatedly pointed out that the players would be given an option to opt in or out so no one is forced to accept anything. People who don't want the hybrid child could still take part in a mission that has other significance. If that is the case no one has any real good reason for arguing against it.

#48
KainrycKarr

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tiberius_adamantine wrote...

irene9876 wrote...

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

Would you say that any other side mission or mission that was not absolutely necessary was meaningless and distracting? The idea is that the facility poses the danger of releasing genetically altered "super-soldiers" with a potential for assisting terrorist or shadow organizations. That would be the reason for investigating it, or the writers could use any number of other possibilities. I said that the kid itself would show up at the end, but might be mentioned beforehand. The significance of the hybrid child isn't just for the Shepard family, but for the galaxy as a whole. The way that people look at race might change for the better. The mission itself if meant to provide something for every player, the hybrid child being just one option.


Actually, yes.  There are a few side missions that come to mind that were meaningless and distracting.  My point, however, is that you'd write an entire plotline that contrives a hybrid into the ME story in order to satisfy yourself while a perfectly acceptable alternative (adoption) can be given without forcing the entire fanbase to accept your fantasy.

And no, this doesn't mean I expect Shepard to be a family person in the epilogue.


I'm not the only one that thinks this is a good idea. Also I have repeatedly pointed out that the players would be given an option to opt in or out so no one is forced to accept anything. People who don't want the hybrid child could still take part in a mission that has other significance. If that is the case no one has any real good reason for arguing against it.


Yes. Yes you are.

And the issue isn't about forced issue; it's about a stupid idea like this would take up time/effort/resources that could be put to far better use elsewhere.

It's a silly idea. It's impossible biologically. And there are way. Way. WAY. More important things for the ME3 team to do.

#49
Dave of Canada

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No.

Mass Effect is possibly one of the only Sci-Fi series where aliens don't have interspecies children with humans.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 17 août 2010 - 05:43 .


#50
Zan51

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You can opt in or out to playing the whole game, actually, but we here have played it. I can think of many more important plot neeeded DLCs without adding in something about a human hybrid. This isn't based on the original V series, ya know. :P