190 réponses à ce sujet

[Cheese Elemental]

mosor wrote...
You don't need  mass relays for FTL travel in the ME universe. Relays just take you distant places faster than regular FTL.

Apologies. Allow me to clarify: I meant that ridiculous idea of FTL being where you zip from one solar system to another in a matter of seconds, something I feel is all too common in 'soft' sci-fi. It's justified in ME with the Mass Relays.

mosor wrote...
Whats
so different from the Star Wars universe and the ME one? Both have FTL,
star wars has the force, ME has biotics. Very little in ME is based on
any hard science fiction. Where ME is different from Star Wars, is that
they go in depth in explaining their science fantasy concepts, but don't
let that fool you to think it's actually based on any real science.

The Force and biotics are completely different. The former is an omnipresent... well, force, like magic. It allows users to literally 'drain life' among other wierd things (lightning, grip etc). Biotics are simple manipulation of the physical world. You can pull apart individual molecules (warp) or pull things into an artificial gravity well (singularity), but you can't 'drain' someone's life force or choke them to death with it. It's much less refined.

[mosor]

Zan51 wrote...

Mosor: the ME relays are the equivalent of the Gateways in Bab 5, and the Stargates in Stargate, warp drive in Star Trek. It IS the main FTL device they use, it is just external.

But it's not the only FTL device you use. Every time you travel to another star system within a star cluster, you are using the ship's FTL, not the mass relay. My point stands.

[mosor]

Apologies. Allow me to clarify: I meant that ridiculous idea of FTL being where you zip from one solar system to another in a matter of seconds, something I feel is all too common in 'soft' sci-fi. It's justified in ME with the Mass Relays.

Yeah but travelling from system to system within a star cluster doesn't take very long either. I'm not dissing mass effect mind you. They do a great job explaining the rules of their fantasy universe, but it's just that, science fantasy.

The Force and biotics are completely different. The former is an omnipresent... well, force, like magic. It allows users to literally 'drain life' among other wierd things (lightning, grip etc). Biotics are simple manipulation of the physical world. You can pull apart individual molecules (warp) or pull things into an artificial gravity well (singularity), but you can't 'drain' someone's life force or choke them to death with it. It's much less refined.

No drain life? *Cough* Reave [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Modifié par mosor, 19 août 2010 - 03:43 .

[EffectedByTheMasses]

mosor wrote...

Apologies. Allow me to clarify: I meant that ridiculous idea of FTL being where you zip from one solar system to another in a matter of seconds, something I feel is all too common in 'soft' sci-fi. It's justified in ME with the Mass Relays.

Yeah but travelling from system to system within a star cluster doesn't take very long either. I'm not dissing mass effect mind you. They do a great job explaining the rules of their fantasy universe, but it's just that, science fantasy.

The Force and biotics are completely different. The former is an omnipresent... well, force, like magic. It allows users to literally 'drain life' among other wierd things (lightning, grip etc). Biotics are simple manipulation of the physical world. You can pull apart individual molecules (warp) or pull things into an artificial gravity well (singularity), but you can't 'drain' someone's life force or choke them to death with it. It's much less refined.

No drain life? *Cough* Reave *Cough*

This. explanation anyone?

[Cheese Elemental]

mosor wrote...

Apologies. Allow me to clarify: I meant that ridiculous idea of FTL being where you zip from one solar system to another in a matter of seconds, something I feel is all too common in 'soft' sci-fi. It's justified in ME with the Mass Relays.

Yeah but travelling from system to system within a star cluster doesn't take very long either. I'm not dissing mass effect mind you. They do a great job explaining the rules of their fantasy universe, but it's just that, science fantasy.

I think the system-to-system travel time is sped up for the purposes of gameplay. Otherwise, it could take hours to travel that far.

mosor wrote...

The Force and biotics are completely different. The former is an omnipresent... well, force, like magic. It allows users to literally 'drain life' among other wierd things (lightning, grip etc). Biotics are simple manipulation of the physical world. You can pull apart individual molecules (warp) or pull things into an artificial gravity well (singularity), but you can't 'drain' someone's life force or choke them to death with it. It's much less refined.

No drain life? *Cough* Reave [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

As I understand it, Reave would attack the nervous system and absorbs the body's electricity to restore the biotic's strength, like Alex Mercer's ability to consume people in Prototype.

Force Drain in Star Wars apparently drains people's literal 'life' (their inherent connection to the Force).

Modifié par Cheese Elemental, 19 août 2010 - 03:52 .

[Sigma Tauri]

Cheese Elemental wrote...
As I understand it, Reave would attack the nervous system and absorbs the body's electricity to restore the biotic's strength, like Alex Mercer's ability to consume people in Prototype.

Force Drain in Star Wars apparently drains people's literal 'life' (their inherent connection to the Force).

lol. Details like that don't make it any less magical.

What a ridiculous notion to be able to absorb a body's electricity from a range using sheer biotic will.

Modifié par monkeycamoran, 19 août 2010 - 04:08 .

[Cheese Elemental]

monkeycamoran wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...
As I understand it, Reave would attack the nervous system and absorbs the body's electricity to restore the biotic's strength, like Alex Mercer's ability to consume people in Prototype.

Force Drain in Star Wars apparently drains people's literal 'life' (their inherent connection to the Force).

lol. Details like that don't make it any less magical.

It makes it more believable than some unifying force that connects everything in the universe.

[tiberius_adamantine]

Cheese Elemental wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...
As I understand it, Reave would attack the nervous system and absorbs the body's electricity to restore the biotic's strength, like Alex Mercer's ability to consume people in Prototype.

Force Drain in Star Wars apparently drains people's literal 'life' (their inherent connection to the Force).

lol. Details like that don't make it any less magical.

It makes it more believable than some unifying force that connects everything in the universe.

you're missing the point. ME doesn't have the hardcore science that you think it does, which leaves room for possibility.

[Zan51]

Mosor: on Normandy 2 drives, did some research and checked in game codex. It states that the FTL IS the Mass Effect fdrive core and that the other propulsion system is sub-light. Therefore travel between reylays has to be sub light it seems...

Found this which kinda explains it, but the fuel for sub light travel is H2O2 aka hydrogen fuel. Mass core uses eezo the codex says.

"The Tantalus drive generates mass concentrations that the Normandy "falls into", allowing it to move without the use of heat-emitting thrusters." Normandy has multiple propulsion systems. She has the four antimatter thrusters for normal flight. However, the thrusters produce heat in the million of degrees Celsius. Heat is one of the main ways to detect a ship. Against the near absolute zero of space, the thrusters make starships easily detectable."

[Sigma Tauri]

Cheese Elemental wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...
As I understand it, Reave would attack the nervous system and absorbs the body's electricity to restore the biotic's strength, like Alex Mercer's ability to consume people in Prototype.

Force Drain in Star Wars apparently drains people's literal 'life' (their inherent connection to the Force).

lol. Details like that don't make it any less magical.

It makes it more believable than some unifying force that connects everything in the universe.

It's nonetheless a fictional work providing a means for characters to perform supernatural feats. It doesn't matter if it's a mystical entity or a tangential element as the source.

[Zan51]

I would say ME has the "assumption" of hard core SF common to nearly all SF.
1) It has a BullSh*t drive, for FTL but any decent SF novel/movie/game set in space has.
2) It has alternative drives for maneuvering etc. 
3) It uses a mix of solid propelled slugs and plasma for weapons, which again most have.
4) Biotics really equates to psychic powers that are enhanced by implants - they do specify they find biotic potential kids and train them, and that it is due to either natural reasons or mutation form exposure to Element Zero.
5) It has Universal Translation so we can all understand each other's languages.
6) It assumes a culture where aliens have the same kind of background that understands commerce, and housing, eating, entertainment. Nothing really alien it is all human-centric to be honest - meaning there is no alien species in the game who believe say eating in public is rude and defecating in public is acceptable, to choose 2 simple extremes.


Need I list how many SF themes use super heroes with powers caused by exposure to chemicals? As for the rest, look them up on TV tropes, guys. They are very common themes in SF!

Modifié par Zan51, 19 août 2010 - 04:26 .

[snfonseka]

I really don't understand why people want to have :alien:babies.... and why obsessed about it....

[snfonseka]

irene9876 wrote...

@OP
If you really want to start a family with your alien lover, why can't you just adopt?  This way Bioware won't have to pull some amazing sci-fi magic but you'll still have kiddies.

well said...

[IanPolaris]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

you're missing the point. ME doesn't have the hardcore science that you think it does, which leaves room for possibility.

Actually even in "hard" sci-fi, implicit (and wrong) Newtonian Assumptions about space and time are assumed because otherwise you'd both confuse your audience and make good storytelling nearly impossible.

Since it's Sci-FI (emphasis FICTION), that's OK.  The point is that almost all sci-fi for necesarry reasons are very soft when it comes to FTL (since explaining General Einstonian Differential Tensor Geometry is a real drag on the story).  For what it's worth, according to the ship, "actual" FTL travel (if via Wormhole) might indeed resemble teleportation.

However, the ME universe has constantly and persistantly come down on the HARD side of Science Fiction when it comes to genetics and general biology, and as such you, sir, are being obtuse.  Others have explained patiently why Dextro and Levi Amino Acid species are totally biologically imcompatible even on the most fundamental level (it's like trying to use the mirror image of your key in a lock...unless the key is perfectly symetically...which it never will be....it always fails.  Always). 

The Aliens in ME definately come down on the soft side of science fiction being little more than humans in rubber suits and as such cross species romance is possible (I've commented on that before...in a hard Sci-Fi it would not be).  However, genetic compatibility?

Not a chance in hell.  At the very, very best if you could somehow make everything work together in a lab, you might be able to reconstruct a living being, but it would not be a recognizable offspring of anything.

-Polaris

[Kacynski]

to the OP:
I have read some of the hybrid-baby threads and have been quite entertained. There has been a lot of effort made by numerous posters of this board to point out the genetic impossibilities of making hybrid babies. I appreciate their effort and patience, but I don't want to expand it further, as you simply seem to refuse to accept that by genetic concepts a hybrid baby is impossible.

Nevertheless, you might want to have a look on this topic from a different angle:
Did you ever wonder, why BioWare specifically introduced the dextro/levo protein/DNA problem to the series? It is mentioned in the codex for Turians and Quarrians - a codex entry has to be somehow condensed and made to the point, otherwise most folk wouldn't bother to read it. This lets me believe, that the different biological setup for Turians and Quarrians has a kind of significance to the writers of the ME stories. From what we see, we know that the writers did quite some research to make the ME universe a rather "hard SciFi". This again lets me believe, that the writers have been fully aware of the implications of the genetic incompatibility between Turians/Quarians and Humans. It is mentioned in the codex for a purpose. And it is mentioned - mind you - for races, where two of the most liked squadmembers can be a romance option.
I for myself conclude from this chain of thinking, that the writers put a barrier - fully intentionally from the beginning - against Turian/Human or Quarrian/Human hybrid babies. Sorry to say that, but it really feels like the writers wanted to have this possibility as far away from happening as possible.

It is not only about genetics, it is not only about science - it is much more about the set up of the story, that makes hybrid babies a big NONO.

E: typos

Modifié par Kacynski, 19 août 2010 - 04:54 .

[Throw_this_away]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

The possibility of a hybrid child presents a plotline that could have greater implications and effect on the ME universe as a whole. If developed properly, this could add even more depth to an already epic story.  Naturally there is debate over whether or not this should be in third game. I propose that a compromise is used in a way that everyone could accept.
 
I suggest creating a mission in which Shepard is sent to investigate a research facility which has developed many advances into the bioengineering field. This facility would have research pertaining the modification of existing genes to enhance or alter the abilities of the subject upon which it is used. I’m not suggesting that this was developed to create hybrid children. It is much more probable that the research was meant more for racial advancement and military use than for anything like this. It is much more likely that this use and potential medical use will come up first and with greater emphasis. However, given the right conditions, the possibility potentially modifying the technology to creating a hybrid child would come up as a potential use.
 
The compromise comes in as Shepard is given a range of choices on how to use the research, or if to use it at all. He could choose to use it for hybrid children, medical use, military use, destroy it, or possibly other options. The point being that, if developed properly, would allow the player to experience a mission that could have a variety of outcomes. People who want a hybrid child could have it and people who don’t could use it for other things, or even destroy it.
 
A few things to clarify before I continue: The above plotline is a basic example given to show how this could work. There are a number of other things that might work and the mission would be more complex than this, again only a suggestion. Also, I am NOT proposing that there be a pregnancy in the game. Any hybrid child that could be made would be mentioned at the end of the game, not created before.
 
Some might feel that creating a hybrid child is too improbable to be used in the story. I understand why they might think so, particularly with the problem of dextro vs. levo. However, I disagree as genetic research, development, and alteration have been brought up a number of times throughout the story. Without getting into too much detail, genetic research and modification are common throughout the story, especially among the military. Genetic enhancements are used on soldiers, gene therapy is common for curing defects, cloning is possible on a large scale, the collectors proved that extensive genetic re-write is possible, and Cerberus experiments provide but one example of how this genetic research could be developed and their intended use versus what they might actually accomplish. This would likely be created for racial advancement first, medical advancement second, and creating a hybrid child a third distinct minority but it would still be possible.
 
Legal and ethical issues wouldn’t likely be an issue either. Some might argue that a hybrid child would be a pariah, disowned by his community. That may happen, or it might not. The asari already have a philosophy that might make them more accepting of hybrid children. Also friends and relatives of the family might accept the child out of bonds to the parents. The genetics of the child also carry the possibility of encouraging more interracial couples to have children. As for legal issues, the council or any smaller government would likely not have much say in this as their authority only extends to a certain point. There is much of the galaxy in which they have little or no say, and even without these areas they would likely not be able, or willing, to intervene in individual personal lives.

No. 

Talimancers could wrongfull use this tech to create a human/quarian baby... thus making ME3 about Tali.  This would make me vomit, and sad.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Don't you see. This has been a Talimancer ploy from the whole beginning!

*Insert epic speech about destroying the Cult of Tali and saving billions of lives.*

[xI extremist Ix]

ReconTeam wrote...

Don't you see. This has been a Talimancer ploy from the whole beginning!
*Insert epic speech about destroying the Cult of Tali and saving billions of lives.*

"Dammit, this is bigger than Mengsk the Reapers. We could save billions."

"This isn't what I signed up for."

"You signed up to take my orders. If you can't to that than get the hell off of my ship."

"Sir."

[mosor]

Cheese Elemental wrote...

As I understand it, Reave would attack the nervous system and absorbs the body's electricity to restore the biotic's strength, like Alex Mercer's ability to consume people in Prototype.

Force Drain in Star Wars apparently drains people's literal 'life' (their inherent connection to the Force).

To be honest. and it could be because I'm old and senile, but I've watched a lot of star wars in my youth and I've never seen force drain in any George Lucas production. As for reave. It clearly drains a victims health and somehow restores your own health. Samara even shouts "your life is mine" as she casts this. Seriously, going by the description of biotics in the ME universe, choke and force lightning seem like more plausible biotic powers than reave.

[mosor]

snfonseka wrote...

I really don't understand why people want to have :alien:babies.... and why obsessed about it....

Haha, I don't either really. Maybe talimancers are scared they'll never show Tali's face and a hybrid baby will give em an idea of what they're sleeping with.

[Inquisitor Recon]

xI extremist Ix wrote...
"Dammit, this is bigger than Mengsk the Reapers. We could save billions."

"This isn't what I signed up for."

"You signed up to take my orders. If you can't to that than get the hell off of my ship."

"Sir."

"I am about to accomplish that which you never could! Today I will defeat the Queen of Blades Talimancers and secure peace throughout the Dominion Galaxy! By this act the people will finally know that I am a worthy successor to you the Council."

[Zan51]

Kacynski wrote...

to the OP:
I have read some of the hybrid-baby threads and have been quite entertained. There has been a lot of effort made by numerous posters of this board to point out the genetic impossibilities of making hybrid babies. I appreciate their effort and patience, but I don't want to expand it further, as you simply seem to refuse to accept that by genetic concepts a hybrid baby is impossible.

Nevertheless, you might want to have a look on this topic from a different angle:
Did you ever wonder, why BioWare specifically introduced the dextro/levo protein/DNA problem to the series? It is mentioned in the codex for Turians and Quarrians - a codex entry has to be somehow condensed and made to the point, otherwise most folk wouldn't bother to read it. This lets me believe, that the different biological setup for Turians and Quarrians has a kind of significance to the writers of the ME stories. From what we see, we know that the writers did quite some research to make the ME universe a rather "hard SciFi". This again lets me believe, that the writers have been fully aware of the implications of the genetic incompatibility between Turians/Quarians and Humans. It is mentioned in the codex for a purpose. And it is mentioned - mind you - for races, where two of the most liked squadmembers can be a romance option.
I for myself conclude from this chain of thinking, that the writers put a barrier - fully intentionally from the beginning - against Turian/Human or Quarrian/Human hybrid babies. Sorry to say that, but it really feels like the writers wanted to have this possibility as far away from happening as possible.

It is not only about genetics, it is not only about science - it is much more about the set up of the story, that makes hybrid babies a big NONO.

E: typos

An excellent point based as you said, on the internal integrity of the writing of the game universe. I like it and wish I had thought of it! Well said.

[mosor]

IanPolaris wrote...


However, the ME universe has constantly and persistantly come down on the HARD side of Science Fiction when it comes to genetics and general biology, and as such you, sir, are being obtuse.  Others have explained patiently why Dextro and Levi Amino Acid species are totally biologically imcompatible even on the most fundamental level (it's like trying to use the mirror image of your key in a lock...unless the key is perfectly symetically...which it never will be....it always fails.  Always). 

Anyone that showcases human genetic diversity by pointing out our differing phenotypes can't have serious knowledge of genetics.

[snfonseka]

ReconTeam wrote...

xI extremist Ix wrote...
"Dammit, this is bigger than Mengsk the Reapers. We could save billions."

"This isn't what I signed up for."

"You signed up to take my orders. If you can't to that than get the hell off of my ship."

"Sir."

"I am about to accomplish that which you never could! Today I will defeat the Queen of Blades Talimancers and secure peace throughout the Dominion Galaxy! By this act the people will finally know that I am a worthy successor to you the Council."

Hey guys.... I am still playing Starcraft 2 campaign... So no spoilers please...

[Inquisitor Recon]

Awww... what point did you get up to so I won't spoil anything?