190 réponses à ce sujet

[mosor]

ReconTeam wrote...

Awww... what point did you get up to so I won't spoil anything?

I'm at the point where I used this special artifact on tali  to turn her into a human, so I can actually consider sleeping with her and breeding tons of little sheps.

[snfonseka]

ReconTeam wrote...

Awww... what point did you get up to so I won't spoil anything?

Still in early stages... Just got that "Protoes memory disk" from Jims Protoes friend... err... can't remember his name.

[Sigma Tauri]

Kacynski wrote...

to the OP:
I have read some of the hybrid-baby threads and have been quite entertained. There has been a lot of effort made by numerous posters of this board to point out the genetic impossibilities of making hybrid babies. I appreciate their effort and patience, but I don't want to expand it further, as you simply seem to refuse to accept that by genetic concepts a hybrid baby is impossible.

Nevertheless, you might want to have a look on this topic from a different angle:
Did you ever wonder, why BioWare specifically introduced the dextro/levo protein/DNA problem to the series? It is mentioned in the codex for Turians and Quarrians - a codex entry has to be somehow condensed and made to the point, otherwise most folk wouldn't bother to read it. This lets me believe, that the different biological setup for Turians and Quarrians has a kind of significance to the writers of the ME stories. From what we see, we know that the writers did quite some research to make the ME universe a rather "hard SciFi". This again lets me believe, that the writers have been fully aware of the implications of the genetic incompatibility between Turians/Quarians and Humans. It is mentioned in the codex for a purpose. And it is mentioned - mind you - for races, where two of the most liked squadmembers can be a romance option.
I for myself conclude from this chain of thinking, that the writers put a barrier - fully intentionally from the beginning - against Turian/Human or Quarrian/Human hybrid babies. Sorry to say that, but it really feels like the writers wanted to have this possibility as far away from happening as possible.

It is not only about genetics, it is not only about science - it is much more about the set up of the story, that makes hybrid babies a big NONO.

E: typos

I'm not sure if I'm convinced with your reasoning. You don't need to go change the biochemistry of a fictional alien race just to create a barrier for incompatibility. In fact, the very notion of an alien species is there is certainty you cannot reproduce with them. For example, levorotary life like the asari, krogans, and salarians differ in their methods of reproduction.

Even if the quarians and the turians were levorotary, they would likely not be compatible to the reproductive mechanisms that human beings have. It would also be completely reasonable that any alien species will have a radically different alien biochemistry. Look at the volus. In all honesty, this is not a genetic compatibility issue, rather what forms the basis of alien biochemistry. The levo/dextro issue is just to create a sense of believability in that Mass Effect is diverse.

Modifié par monkeycamoran, 19 août 2010 - 06:10 .

[Kacynski]

monkeycamoran wrote...

(snip)

The levo/dextro issue is just to create a sense of believability in that Mass Effect is diverse.

That whas exactly the point I was going for. They introduced an element to their story (for whatever reason), and this element excludes babies for Turian/Quarrian with Shepard (for reasons that have been greatly elaborated by other users on this board).
Thus, if they introduce a story arc in ME3, that let this baby happen, it would not only offend the laws of genetics it would also and more importantly offend the laws of their own narrative. This was the point I was getting at.

(and in my personal opinion, I do think the levo/dextro-issue is there to prevent hybrif babies ...)

[Sigma Tauri]

Kacynski wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

(snip)

The levo/dextro issue is just to create a sense of believability in that Mass Effect is diverse.

That whas exactly the point I was going for. They introduced an element to their story (for whatever reason), and this element excludes babies for Turian/Quarrian with Shepard (for reasons that have been greatly elaborated by other users on this board).
Thus, if they introduce a story arc in ME3, that let this baby happen, it would not only offend the laws of genetics it would also and more importantly offend the laws of their own narrative. This was the point I was getting at.

(and in my personal opinion, I do think the levo/dextro-issue is there to prevent hybrif babies ...)

Your point also introduced the idea that levo/dextro-issue is the cause for a barrier, and not merely a consequence. My point is that it doesn't matter. Why? Because aliens are expected by their very nature reproductively incompatible with humans. Being levo/dextro is as much a barrier as reproducing with a earthworm without forcing a chimera. This is beyond verisimilitude and internal consistency. This is also beyond genetics (molecular or otherwise) since it's no more an assumption that turians, salarians, or volus even have analogous biochemical mechanisms as humans do. (Honestly, what do the volus use for genetic material if they're ammonia-based?) It's about what we imagine as alternative biochemistries, which are the basis for their biological functions. It is likely that even carbon-based salarian cells don't perform transcription and translation the same way as human cells. Do you know why dextro-amino acid life is considered exotic? Because the 20 amino acids we use to create our peptide chains are all exclusively left-handed.

[Kacynski]

Monkeycamoran, you completely miss the intention of my post, I will make one last attempt:

I was trying to get away from the genetic/scientific side of the whole argument, as the OP seemed to refuse these arguments for at least three threads now. All the science has been explained in several threads to great extent. I mention this in my first post.

As so many (including the OP) were trying to fight the scientific argument by countering it with "for 200 years we also thought the moon was unreachable", I was trying to make a point against this hybrid baby from a completely different angle.

I pointed out, that the biologic diversity of races was even mentioned in the codex, which means - given limited codex entry space - this was a fact the writers thought to be an important fact.

I also pointed out that we can see from many examples, that ME tries to be "hard science fiction" and the writers did good research into science for the most part. This means most likely also, that the writers are fully aware, that it is scientific nonsense to have offspring from two different alien spieces.

Furthermore I pointed out, that the levo/dextro - issue, which makes mating impossible beyond any further discussion has only been introduced for Quarrians and Turians. Exactly the races that have the most popular squadmates. Squadmates, that also are possible love interests.

It may be coincidence - and without some lead writer of the series commenting, we will never know - but these facts led me to believe, that the writers would as much as possible exclude the possibility of babies between Shepard and his Quarrian/Turian squadmates (of course there will be no babies whatsoever with any race).



It makes no sense to ask me if I know why dextro-amino acid life is exotic. This was never the point of my post, and it still isn't.

My point is:

The writers of the story have made decisions about the biology of alien species. This decision exclude interspecies mating. This decision has been made - by all we can guess - fully intentionally. There is little to no chance, that these story elements will be retconned. All fans, that wish for hybrid babies will most likely not get what they want - not because science or genetic, but because BioWare intentionally excluded this possibility from their story from the very beginning. That's my point. Don't discuss genetics with me.

[yummysoap]

The real question is why the hell would Shepard want a half-alien kid? Will it help him do battle against the reapers by being tentacly and adorable at the same time?

[foolish replica]

KainrycKarr wrote...

This is why we(Talimancers) can't have nice things.

There aren't going to be hybrids. It. Is. Not. Biologically. Possible.

this.

thanks tc, 'cause it's not like we(talimancers) aren't already seen as obsessive, hateful-for-anyone-thats-not-tali, fanatics drooling over a pixelated woman in a biohazard suit by the rest of the board, no seriously, thanks man<_< 

and GIVE IT UP ALREADY,  no little half-quarian shep babies for you.

[Inquisitor Recon]

We have already achieved victory over the Tali fanboys, but now we must clean up the waste! Starting with this topic.



A toast! To this glorious new age free of Tali!

[Zan51]

Humpf.. I like Tali... and Garrus and Liara and Grunt, and Kashimi. Kaidan was my LI. The only people I didn't really like were the very whiny and racist Ashley, Goody goody Jacob who is a real pita at times, and occasionally "I am perfect, so all my mistakes are my fault" Miranda. I even found Jack amusing, though I wouldn't turn my back on her or Zaeed!

[tiberius_adamantine]

foolish replica wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

This is why we(Talimancers) can't have nice things.

There aren't going to be hybrids. It. Is. Not. Biologically. Possible.

this.

thanks tc, 'cause it's not like we(talimancers) aren't already seen as obsessive, hateful-for-anyone-thats-not-tali, fanatics drooling over a pixelated woman in a biohazard suit by the rest of the board, no seriously, thanks man<_< 

and GIVE IT UP ALREADY,  no little half-quarian shep babies for you.

you have no idea the extent to which that annoys me. This isn't about just shepard and tali or any other combination. This is meant to further the story as a whole. The potential impact that this could have on the plotline makes it worth considering. The only thing that looks bad is giving in to people who disagree with you. So far many of the people who respond negatively are those who have nothing better to do than to insult and oppose other things, why would I give in to them? If people want to have a reasonable debate over this, that's fine. As for the genetics issue, I ignore it because I already know it and people spout that too much without thinking much about the actual story. Are biotics "hard science", is overlord "hard science", are the asari "hard science". Didn't think so. The writers listed the differences in aliens because it was already given that they were different, they were just clarifying how. That doesn't mean that they can't find a way to make this work, doesn't mean that they won't find a way to make it work. Just means that they haven't yet. As for how the kid looks, if you're genetically engineering a child do you think that it would look ugly? I mean really? As long as they write it in a way that everyone can appreciate and enjoy, with or without accepting this option (even they use it for something else), everyone can walk away with something. There is no reason to argue against that.

Modifié par tiberius_adamantine, 20 août 2010 - 02:41 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

We see right through you, this is a Tali-based suggestion, they're going rabid without their topic I tell you!

Story impact? This is absurd.

[tiberius_adamantine]

ReconTeam wrote...

We see right through you, this is a Tali-based suggestion, they're going rabid without their topic I tell you!
Story impact? This is absurd.

closing your eyes tight makes you the fool.

[Zan51]

There is no gene or combo of genes for good looks, hell there is no one gene for brown eyes, or being 3 feet tall or 6 feet tall! Do you have a scientific idea of what genes actually are? Try this for a start:  http://www.usatoday....nderquest_x.htm
Or try this great little video too.
It is far more complex than you imagine, unless you are telling us to forget all this and just "make it up".
And how would any hybrid kid have any effect on the story of defeating the Reapers? I would find it very annoying and disappointing if they did this, because there is absolutely no story reason for doing it, beyond you want it done.

Modifié par Zan51, 20 août 2010 - 03:21 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

I will say what I said in one of the other many, many threads on this ridiculous subject: there is no logical reason why this should be possible. There is no dramatic reason why this should be in an adventure game about a soldier.



But most importantly, there is no reason why the characters would choose for this to happen; being responsible adults with even the vaguest intelligence. Knowing that even if they put the money, resources and time into creating some unholy hybrid child, and assuming there were no gross genetic defects that would either immediately abort the fetus or cripple and/or deform the child for life.. Assuming the birth and early life went by without a single hitch, the offspring would still be ostracized for their entire life for being, you know, an unholy abomination of hokey Frankenstein science. Just because you want to believe this wouldn't happen, doesn't make it untrue. People will always zero in on what is different. Heck, the fact that 99% of the people who comment on these threads think that this is a terrible idea should be proof of that.



Shepard is not selfish or stupid enough to force that misery on a child based on, what? Scientific curiosity? Insecurity that any relationship could last without genetic proof of their bond?



I'm not sure how this is a 'compromise', or that the situation even can be compromised, much less should be compromised. I honestly think we're never going to get a situation where Shepard settles down and has kids regardless. At best we'll get a vague epilogue so that people can imagine what they like. But this? This is just never going to happen.

[Liec]

We could compromise and say that quarians can reproduce parasitically like the xenomorph from Alien. DNA incompatibility problem solved

[yummysoap]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

you have no idea the extent to which that annoys me. This isn't about just shepard and tali or any other combination. This is meant to further the story as a whole. The potential impact that this could have on the plotline makes it worth considering. The only thing that looks bad is giving in to people who disagree with you. So far many of the people who respond negatively are those who have nothing better to do than to insult and oppose other things, why would I give in to them? If people want to have a reasonable debate over this, that's fine. As for the genetics issue, I ignore it because I already know it and people spout that too much without thinking much about the actual story. Are biotics "hard science", is overlord "hard science", are the asari "hard science". Didn't think so. The writers listed the differences in aliens because it was already given that they were different, they were just clarifying how. That doesn't mean that they can't find a way to make this work, doesn't mean that they won't find a way to make it work. Just means that they haven't yet. As for how the kid looks, if you're genetically engineering a child do you think that it would look ugly? I mean really? As long as they write it in a way that everyone can appreciate and enjoy, with or without accepting this option (even they use it for something else), everyone can walk away with something. There is no reason to argue against that.

Oh come on, we've all seen your track record. No amount of "a hybrid baby could, like, progress the story and, like, stuff" is going to convince anyone.

Let me ask you something, and lets see if you have the humility to actually answer honestly. Would this threat exist if Tali, or quarians as a whole, were never a part of Mass Effect?

[Kacynski]

Maybe we should let Commander Shepard speak:



"Tiberius, I haven't been shot in the head nearly enough times to make that sound like a good idea."

[lazuli]

So, wait.  He's not trolling?

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

> Hybrid babies

Modifié par Dr. Peter Venkman, 20 août 2010 - 05:23 .

[mosor]

lazuli wrote...

So, wait.  He's not trolling?

Not intentionally.

[snfonseka]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

....

Shepard is not selfish or stupid enough to force that misery on a child based on, what? Scientific curiosity? Insecurity that any relationship could last without genetic proof of their bond?

I'm not sure how this is a 'compromise', or that the situation even can be compromised, much less should be compromised. I honestly think we're never going to get a situation where Shepard settles down and has kids regardless. At best we'll get a vague epilogue so that people can imagine what they like. But this? This is just never going to happen.

Agreed...

[ExtremeOne]

Op that would be interesting

[snfonseka]

yummysoap wrote...

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

you have no idea the extent to which that annoys me. This isn't about just shepard and tali or any other combination. This is meant to further the story as a whole. The potential impact that this could have on the plotline makes it worth considering. The only thing that looks bad is giving in to people who disagree with you.....

Oh come on, we've all seen your track record. No amount of "a hybrid baby could, like, progress the story and, like, stuff" is going to convince anyone.

Let me ask you something, and lets see if you have the humility to actually answer honestly. Would this threat exist if Tali, or quarians as a whole, were never a part of Mass Effect?

"potential imapct" huh?...err...... I hope BW is not naive enough to create a "potential imapct" by introducing a hybrid in ME3... Anyway what kind of impact (related to the ME3 story) are we talking about in here?

[Zan51]

Quite honestly, I have been a mother of a son, now 25, and it is bloody hard work. No Shepard from ME1 or 2, or potentially 3, would have the time or inclination to do this and be anything but an absent parent while saving the Galaxy from the reapers so said son and LI could grow old. You do not do that to someone you love! Nuff said.