190 réponses à ce sujet

[mosor]

KainrycKarr wrote...

mosor wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Toasting in an epic bread

77boy84 wrote...

Star Wars, Harry Potter, Dr Who, the Illiad...
There are tons of stories with impossible ideas that aren't laughed at because they are well written.

None of those are science fiction.

Neither is Mass Effect. It's just dragon age in space.

Wrong. Mass Effect makes an attempt to explain why certain things are the way they are in a scientific manner. Thus, science fiction. In Star Wars, stuff is the way it is because they say so. They don't create any kind of real explanation for anything. It just....is.

Rather like the Reapers.

Reapers=Sith=?!?!??!?!?!

Correction. Pseudo Science. Wanting something to be real, or accepting half assed explanations is just a small step above fantasy. Lord of the Rings explains their middle earth universe more so than Mass Effect. Doesn't make it science fiction.

Modifié par mosor, 21 août 2010 - 08:28 .

[khevan]

The problem I have, and the point that I think has gotten lost in the thread, is that Bioware has already written themselves into a corner with the issue. They've made it very clear about the difference between levo and dextro races. We know that it is completely impossible to mix the two. Genetic engineering can only work within the framework of the DNA it is modifying. Period. Full stop. It cannot change one species into another, or alter such basic biological conditions. It's like matter and anti-matter. The two meet, they annihilate each other. Levo and dextro races are completely incompatible. No amount of writing will get past that, especially with the emphasis Bioware has put on the differences.



Trying to say that this can be written around, given the circumstances, is ludicrous. If Bioware hadn't made such a distinction between turians/quarians and the rest of the galaxy, it wouldn't be a big deal to write it in, even if it's not something that I want for my game.



But with the utter impossibility of the situation as it stands, there's no way Bioware could write this in and even come close to getting me to believe it. That's all there is to it, in my opinion.

[Zan51]

Here here! And with 8 novels and 10 short stories out there, I don't think I have any significant "limitations" on my writing abilities! No pro writer can write their way around this because it is impossible without altering the given facts! No Editor worth the name would allow them to write what you want.

You forget that out there are readers and gamers who ARE geneticists, rocket scientists and the like, and who can tell when a writer is trying to do the physically impossible. And believe me, they shout loudly about it! Had someone try to do it to me over refueling a stealth FTL craft, only I had made sure my science was accurate.

Now for goodness sake, let's kill this impossible topic!

Modifié par Zan51, 21 août 2010 - 10:23 .

[mosor]

Zan51 wrote...


You forget that out there are readers and gamers who ARE geneticists, rocket scientists and the like, and who can tell when a writer is trying to do the physically impossible. And believe me, they shout loudly about it! Had someone try to do it to me over refueling a stealth FTL craft, only I had made sure my science was accurate.

Now for goodness sake, let's kill this impossible topic!

Stealth ftl craft in space is impossible. Think about it. It's space. Cold and harsh. Even a small amout of heat and energy will light that craft like a lightbulb in a dark room. Don't get me wrong. I'm not in favor of hybrids, simply because the the story would suck. I just find it funny that people that people would attack the OP by statting the concept is scientifically impossible, but ignoring a plethora of other psydo scientific concepts that even an undergraduate phyicist would roll their eyes at.

[Zan51]

/sigh.. OK roughly the equivalent of the new Normandy then is what I meant. And no, it isn't in Stealth in FTL, just it has FTL capability. They have more of a chameleon light bending effect than anything, and low emissions. I actually don't describe them too much as they are not that important. I just had a refuelling scne somone took objection to.
I use them now and then to get a character from A to B fast, when a regular ship service is too slow.

Modifié par Zan51, 21 août 2010 - 11:16 .

[yummysoap]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

To restate what I've already said, I understand the genetic problem created by turians and quarians. I talked to a scientist who explained it to me. I'm not suggesting that the dna could simply be "attached" or anything like that in a lab. This would be a major scientific breakthrough, I'll give the critics that, although I never actually denied that. The reason that I say this is a writing issue is that the story involved determines if this is interesting, some-what relevant, and some-what plausible. I don't know a way to overcome the dna barrier, no one does. But then no one could say how you make a lot of these things work either, at least not completely. You can argue that some things are more plausible, and that's why they work, but right now much of that is theory based. Regardless of the theories out there, they are just that, theories. As for the person(s) who said they are a writer and can't make this work, not to be rude that that is you and not everyone. I am a writer, my brother is a writer, some of my friends are writers, but you being a writer doesn't change anything.  If you couldn't make it work, that's fine, that's one of your limitations, we all have them. But it doesn't mean that no one else could. As for the child's appearance, again I find it highly unlikely that a child that is genetically engineered would be ugly.

= I want to bang Tali and have a disgusting half-breed kid.

Or, if you want people to stop believing that. Why don't you tell us how it could have an interesting impact on the story? Mass Effect has never been about alien hybridization - I don't think it's ever even been brought up. It would be establishing a completely new theme for, what? The chance for Shepard to be a daddy? How does spoonfeeding and babytalking a freak of nature on the Normandy progress the Mass Effect story at all? What does it have to do with the Reapers? How does it cover any of the current themes presented? It doesn't. At all.

It would be like, to use a Yahtzee analogy, walking in to your house to find a walrus sitting at your dinner table with your family. With no foreshadowing, no viable scientific explanation, no story progression and no real need for it, why do it?

[tiberius_adamantine]

yummysoap wrote...

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

To restate what I've already said, I understand the genetic problem created by turians and quarians. I talked to a scientist who explained it to me. I'm not suggesting that the dna could simply be "attached" or anything like that in a lab. This would be a major scientific breakthrough, I'll give the critics that, although I never actually denied that. The reason that I say this is a writing issue is that the story involved determines if this is interesting, some-what relevant, and some-what plausible. I don't know a way to overcome the dna barrier, no one does. But then no one could say how you make a lot of these things work either, at least not completely. You can argue that some things are more plausible, and that's why they work, but right now much of that is theory based. Regardless of the theories out there, they are just that, theories. As for the person(s) who said they are a writer and can't make this work, not to be rude that that is you and not everyone. I am a writer, my brother is a writer, some of my friends are writers, but you being a writer doesn't change anything.  If you couldn't make it work, that's fine, that's one of your limitations, we all have them. But it doesn't mean that no one else could. As for the child's appearance, again I find it highly unlikely that a child that is genetically engineered would be ugly.

= I want to bang Tali and have a disgusting half-breed kid.

Or, if you want people to stop believing that. Why don't you tell us how it could have an interesting impact on the story? Mass Effect has never been about alien hybridization - I don't think it's ever even been brought up. It would be establishing a completely new theme for, what? The chance for Shepard to be a daddy? How does spoonfeeding and babytalking a freak of nature on the Normandy progress the Mass Effect story at all? What does it have to do with the Reapers? How does it cover any of the current themes presented? It doesn't. At all.

It would be like, to use a Yahtzee analogy, walking in to your house to find a walrus sitting at your dinner table with your family. With no foreshadowing, no viable scientific explanation, no story progression and no real need for it, why do it?

tell me something, do you actually read the posts? excuse my frustration, but I've been over this, and other arguments people keep making, and they don't seem to get it. If you want to counter me, actually read the posts plz.

[ThatDancingTurian]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

tell me something, do you actually read the posts? excuse my frustration, but I've been over this, and other arguments people keep making, and they don't seem to get it. If you want to counter me, actually read the posts plz.

But here's the thing, OP. You've posted and posted and not said anything new or explained your position at all aside from 'IT COULD HAPPEN!' with no proof to back that statement up. No one here thinks this would be at all relevant to the story of Mass Effect but you. Your only excuse for why this is possible is parroting that it's not impossible, despite all facts pointing to it being, y'know, impossible.

Or hey, maybe every single person around you is stupid and doesn't 'get' you and you're the only person with an ounce of intelligence. But I don't think that's the most likely scenario here.

[tiberius_adamantine]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

tell me something, do you actually read the posts? excuse my frustration, but I've been over this, and other arguments people keep making, and they don't seem to get it. If you want to counter me, actually read the posts plz.

But here's the thing, OP. You've posted and posted and not said anything new or explained your position at all aside from 'IT COULD HAPPEN!' with no proof to back that statement up. No one here thinks this would be at all relevant to the story of Mass Effect but you. Your only excuse for why this is possible is parroting that it's not impossible, despite all facts pointing to it being, y'know, impossible.

Or hey, maybe every single person around you is stupid and doesn't 'get' you and you're the only person with an ounce of intelligence. But I don't think that's the most likely scenario here.

what kind of "proof" are you looking for? are you asking for actual scientific data for a game based on theories and creativity? In previous posts I have said why it would be relevant and to which of ME's themes it would be most relevant too. If you need to, go ahead and review it on one of the earlier pages.

[ThatDancingTurian]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

what kind of "proof" are you looking for? are you asking for actual scientific data for a game based on theories and creativity? In previous posts I have said why it would be relevant and to which of ME's themes it would be most relevant too. If you need to, go ahead and review it on one of the earlier pages.

There is no proof you could offer, because such an idea is not theoretically sound, and others have given you multiple well-reasoned arguments why. Yet you insist that people just aren't 'getting'  you. And your posts filled with ramblings that amount to no more than wishful thinking and deflection. You have no argument. And yet you insist I must just need to 'review' your remarks more carefully.

The reason people aren't 'getting it' is because the idea is stupid, out-of-character and irrelevant, and no one likes the idea enough to look past the obvious flaws in logic except for you. That makes you special, congratulations. Don't expect us to agree with you, because we never will.

[crimzontearz]

what the......



seriously...it would be a LOT easier for a starfish to have a child with a mountain lion



this is not even a matter of "of we could fix it with genetic engineering" kinda thing because mega-corporations can barely make the Quarian immune system able to withstand a normal open air space like Ilium let alone produce an hybrid child with an alien specie that does not even share one's biochemical chirality



sure if Bioware wanted they could say "oh Quarians and Humans were both Bio-children of the proteans who dispersed their generic material on earth and the home world" or some other nonsense but come on!

[Zan51]

You know, you got a point there. Making Quarians immunity more robust is a far better venture... Mind you, they would lose the mystique without the enviro suits...

[Computer_God91]

crimzontearz wrote...
sure if Bioware wanted they could say "oh Quarians and Humans were both Bio-children of the proteans who dispersed their generic material on earth and the home world" or some other nonsense but come on!

Ha, this wouldn't supprise me because of that research base on Mars and the close study of humanity. I.E. The side mission in ME1 with the Prothean orb

[Harold Genhi]

I could see it as a furthering of the Romance sub-plot, but again I agree with the other people that an adoption would be more appropriate and easier to execute. I have written a story where I do bend the rules of Chirality. I got backlash from it, but hey it was a fictional work with a possible what-if to the story line. Their is speculation, only speculation, about a possible existence of a bacterium that could cause a neutralization of the harmful interactions of the non compatible DNA and proteins, but this again leads to the fact that Quarians and Humans are not the same species, but This could also be explained though again it will be far-fetched. Certain animals can mate with each other that are of not the same species, but since they contain the same set up of chromosomes they can mate, but the resulting life would be infertile and almost unstable. This wouldn't make them ugly, but the odds of success very low along with the odds already stacked against it for such a highly unlikely event. I will never use the word impossible, because nothing is impossible, everything is simply highly unlikely.



There wouldn't be much of a story drive to this development. It would be a stand-alone thing that would really only focus on your character's relationship, but I could even see it used as opening the way to uniting the galaxy, though that is again a bit extreme and far-fetched. Quarians have bad immune systems, Humans have good. Combine you hit a middle ground potentially, though it is unlikely. The children would never be able to reproduce nor would they live long, unless some medical gene therapy fixes it. In the scope of the next game, I see it as highly unlikely, yes it would be fun and interesting, but its not the best course of action, especially in this game. Maybe elsewhere at another time. I believe that eventually someone will make a breakthrough in allowing a neutralization of the lethal Chirality, but only time and luck can tell you that.



I prefer something easier and more realistic to complete like an adoption. I'd go for that more than anything. Breaking the boundaries of Chirality is simply too much work and effort to only make it a side romance plot. But again, it is a humble idea, just I'd prefer not seeing it.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zan51 wrote...

Mosor: on Normandy 2 drives, did some research and checked in game codex. It states that the FTL IS the Mass Effect fdrive core and that the other propulsion system is sub-light. Therefore travel between reylays has to be sub light it seems...

Found this which kinda explains it, but the fuel for sub light travel is H2O2 aka hydrogen fuel. Mass core uses eezo the codex says.

"The Tantalus drive generates mass concentrations that the Normandy "falls into", allowing it to move without the use of heat-emitting thrusters." Normandy has multiple propulsion systems. She has the four antimatter thrusters for normal flight. However, the thrusters produce heat in the million of degrees Celsius. Heat is one of the main ways to detect a ship. Against the near absolute zero of space, the thrusters make starships easily detectable."

The mass effect drive core allows FTL without the use of the mass relays. 

What the relays allow is timely travel between very distant stars.

If there were no non-relay FTL in the ME setting, each trip to the non-relay systems in a cluster would take, minimum, decades.  At 90% of the speed of light, it would take ~5 years to travel from Sol to the nearest stars.  A few side missions, and the Collectors have abducted enough humans to make TWO new Reapers.

[Killjoy Cutter]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...

ciaweth wrote...

illerianna wrote...
Shepard and Tali/Thane/Garrus want kids? Adopt, or have someone 'take one for the team'; the female having IVF using sperm from someone of her own species, or the male impregnating someone of his own species. If they want to have babies together.... Well, tough luck. Fall in love with your own species next time.

Hey, hey, hey...I've never ever seen a mainline Garrus/Tali/Thane fan advocate for offspring.  In the Garrus thread, we have a "no mutant babies" rule, in fact.  Consensus is "Just...no." 

"mutant babies" implys that you think it impossible to create an attractive individual. Genetic engineering would help with that.

As I stated elsewhere, the closed to what you want that could ever happen in the ME setting would be to find the gene's* from the mother's species that lead to or predispose for the traits from the father that you would want to emulate in the child, and create an artificial combined genome for the child  The father's actual genes could never be involved.  At all.


* "genes" as shorthand for "whatever the species in question uses to pass on inheritable traits".  There's no guarantee that (insert species here) uses DNA organized into chromosomes.


Seriously, my prefered romances for Sheps of either gender in ME2 involve non-humans, but...
 
First, a Shep of either gender having kids is way off in some post-story, happily-ever-after zone that has nothing to do with the events in the timeframe of the games.  I really don't want to have to make sure that I've remembered to spend 250 Element Zero on a "taking the pill" upgrade for my femshep character...

Second, ME is not a land of magic -- and I don't mean that to be snarky, it's simply a fact.  It does have its conceits, but they're not the same sort of conceits as fantasy.  Don't make the mistake of thinking that once a setting allows for one impossible thing, it must allow for all impossible things. 

Within the ME setting, they've established that they're going to approach things like genetics and biochemistry from as much of a hard science position as possible, not as pseudoscience.  They went out of their way to make certain species biochemically incompatible with other species, and really, it's a good way to add some "the aliens are alien" to the setting, even if they did make many of them very human-like (a different conceit, and one that's easier to rationalize).


EDIT:  Typo.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 26 août 2010 - 12:45 .