40 réponses à ce sujet

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

I've played around with Tech Powers/Bonus Powers alot recently, and noticed that Neural Shock is probably more effective. Here's a short comparison:

                                             Recharge Time         Incapitation Duration             (Impact Radius)
Heavy Neural Shock                  3 s                                        12 s                                   0 m
Deep Cryo Blast                         4,5 s                                        7 s                                  1,2 m

In my opinion, the impact radius can be neglected. I've never managed to get even two enemies at once with one blast, even when trying to.
Neural Shock stuns enemies almost twice as long. However, Cryo Blast grants you one bonus: Frozen enemies take more damage from powers/guns. This would be fine, but frozen enemie always fall own, so you can finish them off only if they're out of cover, which will be very, very rarely. 
As a solution I'd say make it so frozen enemies keep standing; This way you can kill them/let your Squad kill them when frozen. Neural Shock doesn't need any changing if the Cryo Blast gets "fixed".

[Radahldo]

Sometimes if you shoot an enemy under neural shock enough, for whatever reason, the effect will dissipate. This is especially noticeable on asari Vanguards and krrogan. In my experience, the only way to ensure they suffer the full duration, is to wait until the effect causes them to fall (and then open fire, or leave them there), or use neural shock after they have already been knocked to the ground by something else.

Considering that, I think both of them need tinkering.

Modifié par Radahldo, 17 août 2010 - 03:23 .

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

Radahldo wrote...

Sometimes if you shoot an enemy under neural shock enough, for whatever reason, the effect will dissipate. This is especially noticeable on asari Vanguards and krrogan. In my experience, the only way to ensure they suffer the full duration, is to wait until the effect causes them to fall (and then open fire, or leave them there), or use neural shock after they have already been knocked to the ground by something else.

Considering that, I think both of them need tinkering.

I know that, but I never thought this was much of a problem; after all, if you hit an enemy with Neural Shock, you want them to stay down, so obviously you won't shoot them, and if you want an enemy stunned, that means you think there's an enemy with higher priority, so your Squadmates shouldn't focus on the stunned enemy anyway.

[OniGanon]

In addition to the obvious advantage of working on synthetics as well as organics, Cryo Blast has a major point in its favour over Neural Shock: opportunity cost. Neural Shock is a bonus power, and thus takes up your bonus power slot. Cryo Blast is a standard power that only requires point in a power you'd likely put points in anyway (overload and drone).



Cryo Blast also has a major advantage on Mordin: fully evolved, it has a drastically reduced cooldown, making his Neural Shock a bit of a waste.

[lazuli]

I'd just like tech powers to interact with each other in some way, a la Warp explosions for Biotics.

[sinosleep]

Frozen enemies falling down is the biggest reason I don't use cryo blast very often. I've gone out of my way to try and make use of it on a few playthroughs but it's not worth it. Since enemies behind cover always fall down you are forced to only use cryo blast on enemies in the open or enemies you can readily get to, at which point it's kind of pointless to even bother using it since enemies in melee range are usually killed off with an SMG or shotgun before they're even completely frozen.



The only enemies really worth freezing are charging Krogan.

[termokanden]

Like I said in another thread, Cryo Blast is even worse when you compare it to Pull. It's really insane the difference between the two.

But yes I too went out of my way to use it on insanity with my engineer. Didn't work out. Charging enemies would still shoot me a few times before they froze, and enemies behind cover would indeed fall down.

It needs to be buffed quite a bit to be worth it.

In addition to the obvious advantage of working on synthetics as well as organics, Cryo Blast has a major point in its favour over Neural Shock: opportunity cost. Neural Shock is a bonus power, and thus takes up your bonus power slot. Cryo Blast is a standard power that only requires point in a power you'd likely put points in anyway (overload and drone).

Agree, but this is like saying it's only good because you don't have anything else instead.

Modifié par termokanden, 17 août 2010 - 05:41 .

[PsyrenY]

Cryo biggest advantage - works on all enemies (with defenses removed), not just organics.
Cryo biggest disadvantage - falling behind cover

The reason NS gets hyped so much is because there are so few synthetics in the game relative to organics, but I would still pick Cryo ahead of NS on Mordin or most casters. It would at the very least save a BP slot.

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

termokanden wrote...

Like I said in another thread, Cryo Blast is even worse when you compare it to Pull. It's really insane the difference between the two.

But yes I too went out of my way to use it on insanity with my engineer. Didn't work out. Charging enemies would still shoot me a few times before they froze, and enemies behind cover would indeed fall down.

It needs to be buffed quite a bit to be worth it.

In addition to the obvious advantage of working on synthetics as well as organics, Cryo Blast has a major point in its favour over Neural Shock: opportunity cost. Neural Shock is a bonus power, and thus takes up your bonus power slot. Cryo Blast is a standard power that only requires point in a power you'd likely put points in anyway (overload and drone).

Agree, but this is like saying it's only good because you don't have anything else instead.

Well, I'm doing the same thing right now; I try to get the most out of the Mechanic's 15% Power Duration bonus, so I use Cryo Blast. To be honest, I find it actually good for crowd control, since it is somehwat spammable, and charging Krogans can be kept away if you spam it as well; I don't say enemies falling down when frozen is gamebreaking or a huge disadvantage, it's just something where you say "If they wouldn't fall down it would be SO much more useful". Just annoying...

[sinosleep]

See, I do consider it a huge disadvantage. Other forms of CC either do damage (throw, incineration and inferno ammo cause panic) or set enemies up for damage (singularity and pull pull enemies OUT of cover and make them vulnerable) cryo blast however often times does neither since most enemies are behind cover and frozen enemies tend to fall down behind it instead of out of it.If it would at least freeze enemies and keep them upright it would fall into the singularity/pull category by freezing enemies out of cover.

Modifié par sinosleep, 17 août 2010 - 10:29 .

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

sinosleep wrote...

See, I do consider it a huge disadvantage. Other forms of CC either do damage (throw, incineration and inferno ammo cause panic) or set enemies up for damage (singularity and pull pull enemies OUT of cover and make them vulnerable) cryo blast however often times does neither since most enemies are behind cover and frozen enemies tend to fall down behind it instead of out of it.If it would at least freeze enemies and keep them upright it would fall into the singularity/pull category by freezing enemies out of cover.

That's what I'm suggesting. I don't know if it would be simple to implement, however. Though it wouldn't be overpowered in my opinion, just give the Engineer a slight advantage to keep up with stronger classes.

[sinosleep]

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

That's what I'm suggesting. I don't know if it would be simple to implement, however. Though it wouldn't be overpowered in my opinion, just give the Engineer a slight advantage to keep up with stronger classes.

I don't think it'd be that hard. Just make it so that if X target is hit with cryoblast/ammo, target is forced into the shooting animation until they are frozen. There are already plenty of if X animate Y actions in the game, this would just be another one. I mean I guess you lose some of the cool factor of targets slowly freezing into whatever position they wind up in (they would all be freezing at the same position), but it would be far more functional.

Modifié par sinosleep, 17 août 2010 - 11:17 .

[Athenau]

BTW neural shock ragdolls enemies once they're on the floor, so you get the same +100% damage bonus that you get from freezing.

[termokanden]

So does Flashbang Grenade it seems

[Athenau]

Yeah, I think anything that knocks people off their feet also ragdolls them (slam, pull, neural shock, concussive shot, singularity, flash bang).

More on topic, if we're asking for buffs to cryo blast, can we get one for concussive shot? That power is a huge piece of crap. Only fortification is worse, and that's saying something.

[termokanden]

Indeed. Only reason I'm not asking for that is because soldiers honestly don't need any buffs.



But it's true. Concussive shot is even worse than cryo blast.

[sinosleep]

Concussive shot is a pretty good substitute for throw in a pull/throw combo.

[termokanden]

Thing is, if any power is to compete with Adrenaline Rush for cooldown usage, it has to be absolutely insane. Concussive shot is not useless but it's mediocre at best, so it definitely does not compete.



If you want to use it for fun, by all means go ahead. It's your game. More accurately, it's your license to play someone else's game

[Adokat]

I use cryo blast when I play on Insanity. I only use it against tough enemies with high health pools, but it's a valuable form of crowd control for those times if that's all you have. Of course, it's deficiencies compared to other powers are tough to ignore, especially how enemies fall over. Cryo blast is competing for cooldowns with other powers (and its cooldown seems a bit too long compared to something like pull), so often using, say, Incinerate, is a better.



Something like pull justifies itself both with superior crowd control, but also because it sets up better use of other powers like warp or throw. Do any powers cause frozen targets to shatter or something?



Another problem with cryo blast is that, while one point is worth having, there's not much value in adding more than one, even on Insanity, making it kind of uninspiring. Some additional functionality would help.

[MadCat221]

Adokat wrote...
Do any powers cause frozen targets to shatter or something?

Charge.

[Stabby McGoodstab]

Cryo Blast is much better on a Sentinel than an Engineer. An Engineer is forced to shoot to frozen target. Staying out of cover that long isn't exactly a good idea. Full Cryo is great against Husks though if you have Incineration Blast.



A Sentinel can make use of Throw to shatter a frozen target. It takes a bit of practice sometimes, but you're not out of cover for very long and the cooldowns for both powers are very short.

[termokanden]

Still, for sentinel I would pick up Flashbang Grenade as a bonus and be done with it. Massive radius, works against protection, does a bit of damage, kills unprotected husks, causes other unprotected targets to be ragdolled and take double damage.

This is my agenda. I must spread the word about Flashbang Grenade. It's so easy to overlook as plain crap, but it's actually one of the best powers if you know how to use it.

Modifié par termokanden, 18 août 2010 - 04:44 .

[Ch40sFox]

Adokat wrote...

I use cryo blast when I play on Insanity. I only use it against tough enemies with high health pools, but it's a valuable form of crowd control for those times if that's all you have. Of course, it's deficiencies compared to other powers are tough to ignore, especially how enemies fall over. Cryo blast is competing for cooldowns with other powers (and its cooldown seems a bit too long compared to something like pull), so often using, say, Incinerate, is a better.

Something like pull justifies itself both with superior crowd control, but also because it sets up better use of other powers like warp or throw. Do any powers cause frozen targets to shatter or something?

Another problem with cryo blast is that, while one point is worth having, there's not much value in adding more than one, even on Insanity, making it kind of uninspiring. Some additional functionality would help.

It makes me wonder why they decided to get rid of Powers passive effects from the first game.

For instance, AI Hacking boosted Tech Cooldown times.

Without these secondary effects, it makes alot of the powers very lack luster for a good majority of veteran Mass Effect Players.

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

termokanden wrote...

Still, for sentinel I would pick up Flashbang Grenade as a bonus and be done with it. Massive radius, works against protection, does a bit of damage, kills unprotected husks, causes other unprotected targets to be ragdolled and take double damage.

This is my agenda. I must spread the word about Flashbang Grenade. It's so easy to overlook as plain crap, but it's actually one of the best powers if you know how to use it.

Well, that's a good strategy, but the problem is, as an Engineer, you need 2 ranks in Cryo Blast for AI Hacking, which means that you can't max out Flashbang Grenade, unless you substract points from Overload or AI Hacking. But I rely on them too much for that.

[TheKillerAngel]

It would make more sense if Cryo slowed the enemy's attack and movement speed for a duration after it completely "thaws."