344 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

FedericoV wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
DA:O was darker, but again way far from what they wanted said it would be. After Ostagar you can solve almost everything you come across happily with no cost. Ironically, as I romanced Morrigan and saved Loghain found the end quite sad., but it is no ASoF&I or Witcher (both books and game) in terms of dark fantasy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the brecilian forest quest has not an optimal solution. Infact, I think that it's the best DA:O's major plotline.
 

You must like the old elf Keeper a lot more than I... to me he crossed the MEH way too much to care for him.

[FedericoV]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Except the PC isn't aware of the optimal solution until later.

As mentioned, some expected to return from the tower to find everyone dead.  If that's the case, why did you go to the tower?  And if even you expected it would fail, then you can't really fault someone else for failing to choose the option.  Yes, it had the optimal outcome, but you thought it wouldn't.  That alone seems sufficient reason not to choose it.

Yes, all the choices look simple when you metagame your way through them.

I do not understand your tone, it sounds a little bit polemic. If I misunderstood, sorry in advance . Having said that, my opinion from a design point of view is that if a game do not want the players to metagame their choices, it should not allow them to do so. Since most players will take the easy route and metagame. It only asks you to save the game and spend 5 minutes to see the result if I remember well. Since everyone is free to play the game they own as they like and there is not a superior way to play them (untill it's estabilished from the game itself).

Personally, I tried for the optimal solution because it was what my charachter would have done in real life. I'm only saying that I prefer quests like the brecilian forest one, where you loose something even if you choose the overall optimal solution.

Modifié par FedericoV, 18 août 2010 - 09:13 .

[FedericoV]

Nerevar-as wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
DA:O was darker, but again way far from what they wanted said it would be. After Ostagar you can solve almost everything you come across happily with no cost. Ironically, as I romanced Morrigan and saved Loghain found the end quite sad., but it is no ASoF&I or Witcher (both books and game) in terms of dark fantasy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the brecilian forest quest has not an optimal solution. Infact, I think that it's the best DA:O's major plotline.
 

You must like the old elf Keeper a lot more than I... to me he crossed the MEH way too much to care for him.

I do not like him but I understand his desperation as a leader. Mostly, I missed the Lady of the Forest. The final with her death was one of the most beautifull moments in DA:O.

Modifié par FedericoV, 18 août 2010 - 09:15 .

[FedericoV]

LOLZAO wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
DA:O was darker, but again way far from what they wanted said it would be. After Ostagar you can solve almost everything you come across happily with no cost. Ironically, as I romanced Morrigan and saved Loghain found the end quite sad., but it is no ASoF&I or Witcher (both books and game) in terms of dark fantasy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the brecilian forest quest has not an optimal solution. Infact, I think that it's the best DA:O's major plotline.
 

No you can break the curse and put Lanaya as Keeper and she turns out to be better than Zathrian and she keeps the peace between Humans and Elfs.

But the lady of the forest dies with Zathrian.

[Nerevar-as]

FedericoV wrote...

LOLZAO wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
DA:O was darker, but again way far from what they wanted said it would be. After Ostagar you can solve almost everything you come across happily with no cost. Ironically, as I romanced Morrigan and saved Loghain found the end quite sad., but it is no ASoF&I or Witcher (both books and game) in terms of dark fantasy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the brecilian forest quest has not an optimal solution. Infact, I think that it's the best DA:O's major plotline.
 

No you can break the curse and put Lanaya as Keeper and she turns out to be better than Zathrian and she keeps the peace between Humans and Elfs.

But the lady of the forest dies with Zathrian.

She didn´t mind, and saved the WW. It´s a moment I found more melancolic than sad. Agree that it is probably the "worst" best solution to a plot in the game.

[AlanC9]

FedericoV wrote...
Since most players will take the easy route and metagame. It only asks you to save the game and spend 5 minutes to see the result if I remember well.

Do most players actually do that? I wonder if Bio collects the information.

I suppose it would be easy to find this out for the quests that have different achievements associated with the different resolutions; just check the timestamp on the achievements.

[FedericoV]

Nerevar-as wrote...

She didn´t mind, and saved the WW. It´s a moment I found more melancolic than sad. Agree that it is probably the "worst" best solution to a plot in the game.

Well, in my eyes it was even sad because you have to kill something beautifull and special to stop a curse that touches people that probably deserve to be cursed, even if the lady of the forest do not mind and if at the end it's the right thing to do. You have to kill a leader that has gone mad for the many sufferings of his pepole. So the choice while still a little bit ovious sounded more meaningfull and real. At least it was better than the Sacred Ashes one (wich was the worst choice in the game imho). Then, I do agree with your point about the "worst" best solution.

Modifié par FedericoV, 18 août 2010 - 09:36 .

[Nerevar-as]

I don´t metagame if I can´t find a reason the character would take a decision that seems right. For example, if you pay attention to the society in Orzammar you realize Harrowmont´s honor stops at the casteless while Bhelen wants to help them. The caste system itself is sick.

[FedericoV]

AlanC9 wrote...

FedericoV wrote...
Since most players will take the easy route and metagame. It only asks you to save the game and spend 5 minutes to see the result if I remember well.

Do most players actually do that? I wonder if Bio collects the information.

I suppose it would be easy to find this out for the quests that have different achievements associated with the different resolutions; just check the timestamp on the achievements.

In my very personal experience, they do. Otherwise there would not be so many walkthrough on the internet. But I could be wrong. I do not know if writers should consider metagaming issues while developing a game, I only think that in DA:O there were better scenarios (like the Orzhammar and the Brecilian Forest ones) and less good ones (like the Sacred Ashes or the Redcliffe ones).

Modifié par FedericoV, 18 août 2010 - 09:55 .

[FedericoV]

Nerevar-as wrote...

I don´t metagame if I can´t find a reason the character would take a decision that seems right. For example, if you pay attention to the society in Orzammar you realize Harrowmont´s honor stops at the casteless while Bhelen wants to help them. The caste system itself is sick.

Yep, you're right: even the Orzammar decision was quite interesting. I choose Harrowmont and sided with the traditionalist because I could not really trust Bhelen (looking at the way he acts, he could turn to be a tyrant instead of a reform leader). But it was a good scenario with many important consequences. Even the Anvil of The Void decision was not bad.

Modifié par FedericoV, 18 août 2010 - 09:59 .

[Nerevar-as]

Caridin´s comment about what an easy way entails is one of my favorite phrases of the game.

Point with Orzammar, it is already a tyranny for a good part of the population. From a fereldian POV it should be even worse. I didn´t realize it at first though.

[FedericoV]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Caridin´s comment about what an easy way entails is one of my favorite phrases of the game.
Point with Orzammar, it is already a tyranny for a good part of the population. From a fereldian POV it should be even worse. I didn´t realize it at first though.

Yep, but you do not know if you can really trust Bhelen untill the end of the game unfortunately.

[Morroian]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

As mentioned, some expected to return from the tower to find everyone dead.  If that's the case, why did you go to the tower?  And if even you expected it would fail, then you can't really fault someone else for failing to choose the option.  Yes, it had the optimal outcome, but you thought it wouldn't.  That alone seems sufficient reason not to choose it.

Yep my first play through thats what I thought and chose to sacrifice Isolde rather than risk it. 

[errant_knight]

FedericoV wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Except the PC isn't aware of the optimal solution until later.

As mentioned, some expected to return from the tower to find everyone dead.  If that's the case, why did you go to the tower?  And if even you expected it would fail, then you can't really fault someone else for failing to choose the option.  Yes, it had the optimal outcome, but you thought it wouldn't.  That alone seems sufficient reason not to choose it.

Yes, all the choices look simple when you metagame your way through them.

I do not understand your tone, it sounds a little bit polemic. If I misunderstood, sorry in advance . Having said that, my opinion from a design point of view is that if a game do not want the players to metagame their choices, it should not allow them to do so. Since most players will take the easy route and metagame. It only asks you to save the game and spend 5 minutes to see the result if I remember well. Since everyone is free to play the game they own as they like and there is not a superior way to play them (untill it's estabilished from the game itself).

Personally, I tried for the optimal solution because it was what my charachter would have done in real life. I'm only saying that I prefer quests like the brecilian forest one, where you loose something even if you choose the overall optimal solution.

We can indeed agree to disagree, and I do enjoy a discussion when disagreement is this civil. I may not entire ly understand your argument, either, as I thought the Forest outcome was pretty optimal, in that Zathrian deserved to pay a price for what he'd done and the curse was broken. The Lady had to sacrifice herelf, but she'd lived a long life outside the fade that she wouldn't otherwise have had, and was ready to end it, so...pretty much wins all around.

[FedericoV]

errant_knight wrote...

We can indeed agree to disagree, and I do enjoy a discussion when disagreement is this civil. I may not entire ly understand your argument, either, as I thought the Forest outcome was pretty optimal, in that Zathrian deserved to pay a price for what he'd done and the curse was broken. The Lady had to sacrifice herelf, but she'd lived a long life outside the fade that she wouldn't otherwise have had, and was ready to end it, so...pretty much wins all around.

Maybe you're right and I liked the Spirit of the Forest and Zathrian too much . I've allready explained why I think that it was an harder choice, at least for me. Let's say that the Orzammar/Anvil of The Void choices like pointed out before were not depressing but interesting and full of meaning/grey areas.

Modifié par FedericoV, 18 août 2010 - 11:55 .

[AlanC9]

Morroian wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

As mentioned, some expected to return from the tower to find everyone dead.  If that's the case, why did you go to the tower?  And if even you expected it would fail, then you can't really fault someone else for failing to choose the option.  Yes, it had the optimal outcome, but you thought it wouldn't.  That alone seems sufficient reason not to choose it.

Yep my first play through thats what I thought and chose to sacrifice Isolde rather than risk it. 

Me too. My first PC's relationship with Alistair never recovered.

I used to say that Bio wimped out by not making it a disaster to go to the tower rather than take the darker alternatives. But in retrospect, chances should work out sometimes.

[Wompoo]

davidk1991 wrote...

After some banter Varric reveals that the Chantry, a church group that worships The Maker, is in ruins, the world is on the brink of war and the church needs Hawke to help reassemble the pieces.

But I want my Hawke to be anti-Chantry 

Same, nothing would give me greater pleasure then to crush the Chantry completely.

[staby-mc-stab-stab]

What about orzammar no mater who you put on the throne they both have their cons (which are admittedly much worse if you preserve the anvil of the void but still...

[phantomrachie24]

Morroian wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

As mentioned, some expected to return from the tower to find everyone dead.  If that's the case, why did you go to the tower?  And if even you expected it would fail, then you can't really fault someone else for failing to choose the option.  Yes, it had the optimal outcome, but you thought it wouldn't.  That alone seems sufficient reason not to choose it.

Yep my first play through that’s what I thought and chose to sacrifice Isolde rather than risk it. 

I thought this in my first play though and sacrificed Isolde, however in my second play through I wanted to try it as I thought if everyone is dead when I come back, it'll teach Alistair a lesson about making hard choices.

I don't fault anyone else for failing to choose that option, the whole point of options is that you can choice which one is right for you.

I just think that, if you do take a chance and try to save both Isolde and Connor that it should not always work out.

If you took too long i.e. did not go straight to the circle, then you should have returned to find Isolde dead and then have to kill Connor.

If there is an optimum resolution there should also be one where it all goes horribly wrong

[HighMoon]

DAMN IT! I promised myself I was going to resist clicking the link, but it's proving too difficult! I just NEED information to sustain me over a 6 month period. As long as it's nothing game ruining. I remember when I found out about the Dark Ritual in DAO before I even purchased the game. I tried to forget about what I heard, but it was too late...

Well, here goes nothin'! I'm going under! *holds breath*

EDIT: The link doesn't work. *sigh*

Modifié par Golden-Rose, 19 août 2010 - 12:13 .

[Dynamomark]

Golden-Rose wrote...

DAMN IT! I promised myself I was going to resist clicking the link, but it's proving too difficult! I just NEED information to sustain me over a 6 month period. As long as it's nothing game ruining. I remember when I found out about the Dark Ritual in DAO before I even purchased the game. I tried to forget about what I heard, but it was too late...

Well, here goes nothin'! I'm going under! *holds breath*

EDIT: The link doesn't work. *sigh*

The link works perfectly, at least right now. The first sentence or two of each paragraph generally puts you on notice if there's something in it that you don't wanna know, so you can skip over them. That worked for me.

[HighMoon]

Okay, viewed the article.. didn't really spoil too much for me, but it did make me MUCH more excited for the game! Yipee! Can't wait to find out who the two victims are, hopefully no one in the family!



Something tells me a family member dying is unavoidable though..*sigh*



So where's the father in all this?

[mousestalker]

David Gaider wrote...

UberDuber wrote...
They also said that we would be surprised when we figured out who the "dragon lady" was in the concept art.

Yeah, but when we say "you might be surprised" people seem to assume "you will be so shocked your head will explode" when what we mean is "the assumptions you guys are making are generally wrong". If we mean "shocked" we'll say it.

Yet another disappointment. Here I was all ready for a cinematic experience as promised, and that promise remains unfulfilled. Sheesh. 

[AlanC9]

There's definitely something funny about the link on the first page. The text of the link is fine, but the actual link's got "%20http//" stuck in the middle of the url.

Edit: Hmm... I was expecting the site to automatically encode this.

http://pc.ign.com/ar.../1113408p1.html

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 août 2010 - 05:37 .