4454 réponses à ce sujet

[Le_Saboteur]

The main reason I was looking forward to Aveline being a love interest was the depth of her character development. As long as we get that without the lovin', I'm okay.



Still, it would have been nice to have a character like Aveline as an LI. Hopefully by the end..?

[The Halfman]

Just to stirr the coals a bit, can anybody point to a direct quote from a dev refuteing Aveline as a love intrest? Lots of people are saying it and its stated on the wiki with a referance to a point in this post which has nothing to do with a LI and this is realy bugging me.

[Shiro_the_Gambler]

Check a few pages ago or check the Bioware responses in this thread. Lukas said it himself. With no small amount of flippant dismissal... still bitter sorry.

EDIT:  Page 106 to be exact.

Modifié par Shiro_the_Gambler, 10 février 2011 - 07:23 .

[JediHealerCosmin]

The Halfman wrote...

Just to stirr the coals a bit, can anybody point to a direct quote from a dev refuteing Aveline as a love intrest? Lots of people are saying it and its stated on the wiki with a referance to a point in this post which has nothing to do with a LI and this is realy bugging me.

http://www.sfx.co.uk...-bloody-sexy/1/

You can find it way down. Knock youself out. This interview brings tears to my eyes 

[JediHealerCosmin]

Cheer up 
                  by Cosmin


As disappointment may be present in this thread,
I am putting this down before going to bed.
We have fought long and hard,
And for that we should be proud.

We've lost nothing, we gained a friend
Who will fight beside us till the end.
As the sun sets, I say good night
Everyone keep a smile and be polite.

[otaku4ever]

JediHealerCosmin wrote...

Cheer up 
                  by Cosmin


As disappointment may be present in this thread,
I am putting this down before going to bed.
We have fought long and hard,
And for that we should be proud.

We've lost nothing, we gained a friend
Who will fight beside us till the end.
As the sun sets, I say good night
Everyone keep a smile and be polite.

/polite. i keed.

I wonder if a mage Hawke will have it harder to go up the friendship bar than a warrior Hawke... If this= true, ninja pirates fom spacewill rogue Hawke have it "normal"?

[BurtonSD]

Guys I just heard the news... I'm taking this harder than I thought. My chest... the paaaain.



Let's hope for some good NPC F/F LI's. Still crossing my fingers for that at least.

[Maelora]

I didn't want to romance her personally, but I'm sorry for you guys. Would have been interesting.



Me, I'm feeling a strong chance f/f is out now. Bait and switch as per ME2.

[C-Gamer90]

JediHealerCosmin wrote...

Cheer up 
                  by Cosmin


As disappointment may be present in this thread,
I am putting this down before going to bed.
We have fought long and hard,
And for that we should be proud.

We've lost nothing, we gained a friend
Who will fight beside us till the end.
As the sun sets, I say good night
Everyone keep a smile and be polite.

Very well said good sir.

[falconlord5]

Maelora wrote...

I didn't want to romance her personally, but I'm sorry for you guys. Would have been interesting.

Me, I'm feeling a strong chance f/f is out now. Bait and switch as per ME2.

There was no bait and switch for ME2, I remember that wait on the forums.

Secondly, we were never going to get Aveline for a F/F romance. Wasn't going to happen. But that still leaves Merrill and Isabela, with Isabela's already established bisexuality making her the most likely candidate.

[Lukas Kristjanson]

Shiro_the_Gambler wrote...

Check a few pages ago or check the Bioware responses in this thread. Lukas said it himself. With no small amount of flippant dismissal... still bitter sorry.

EDIT:  Page 106 to be exact.

Now, now, my intent was not to say “ha, not yours!” My concern is that because of the label, players will not have the optimal experience. I don’t mean the experience of my writing; I mean the experience of “their story,” which is constructed not just by what we tell them, but also by what they assume during the experience. The out-of-game knowledge they bring to any character (not just Aveline) changes how they interact with that character.

Swap “romance” for “betrayal.” A betrayal can be interesting to dissect, but if you know a punch is coming, you flinch. Everything said has a different context. And if you know it’s not coming, that changes interaction too. For characters and plots to have real impact they need honest emotional investment, and that’s a fragile thing easily spoiled by being aware of the existence or nonexistence of a mechanic/label. The curtain is there for a reason.

If I had my way, you wouldn’t know who is what. I don’t want you to play any character as a “romance” or “non-romance.” I want you to play and see what happens. Without honest emotional investment I can disappoint you, but I can’t hurt you.

Or bring you true joy, but I'm mostly about the hurting.

[Maugrim]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Shiro_the_Gambler wrote...

Check a few pages ago or check the Bioware responses in this thread. Lukas said it himself. With no small amount of flippant dismissal... still bitter sorry.

EDIT:  Page 106 to be exact.

Now, now, my intent was not to say “ha, not yours!” My concern is that because of the label, players will not have the optimal experience. I don’t mean the experience of my writing; I mean the experience of “their story,” which is constructed not just by what we tell them, but also by what they assume during the experience. The out-of-game knowledge they bring to any character (not just Aveline) changes how they interact with that character.

Swap “romance” for “betrayal.” A betrayal can be interesting to dissect, but if you know a punch is coming, you flinch. Everything said has a different context. And if you know it’s not coming, that changes interaction too. For characters and plots to have real impact they need honest emotional investment, and that’s a fragile thing easily spoiled by being aware of the existence or nonexistence of a mechanic/label. The curtain is there for a reason.

If I had my way, you wouldn’t know who is what. I don’t want you to play any character as a “romance” or “non-romance.” I want you to play and see what happens. Without honest emotional investment I can disappoint you, but I can’t hurt you.

Or bring you true joy, but I'm mostly about the hurting.

Despite my searching for spoilers and eagerly devouring of all morsels  thrown to us I would very much agree with your approach and minimize, if not elimanate such spolierly annoucements.  Personally I'd like to know if romances existed and all and if certain permuations like M/M and F/F existed but that would be it.  Until then....who is romanceable anyways? 

[Gabriel S.]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Shiro_the_Gambler wrote...

Check a few pages ago or check the Bioware responses in this thread. Lukas said it himself. With no small amount of flippant dismissal... still bitter sorry.

EDIT:  Page 106 to be exact.

If I had my way, you wouldn’t know who is what. I don’t want you to play any character as a “romance” or “non-romance.” I want you to play and see what happens. Without honest emotional investment I can disappoint you, but I can’t hurt you.

I can't say I disagree.

[_Aine_]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

If I had my way, you wouldn’t know who is what. I don’t want you to play any character as a “romance” or “non-romance.” I want you to play and see what happens. Without honest emotional investment I can disappoint you, but I can’t hurt you.

Or bring you true joy, but I'm mostly about the hurting.

Well, honestly, I wish you had your way then. In general, marketing/advertising in the attempt to entice and tempt, tends to tell too much.    I *thought* at the time that I was devouring every morsel on the forums because I was hungry for DA:O.  Knowing too much *did* change the experience, despite every attempt otherwise.   

[Altima Darkspells]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...


 but I'm mostly about the hurting.

Hmm, I dunno, I feel a distinct lack of suffering in Origins.

Sure, several of the Origins start off with a solid seven-seven point five on the suffering scale, but after Ostagar, the game seems to switch more towards annoyance.

On a scale of one to ten, how badly will Hawke be potentially distressed in DA2, do ya think?

With one being, say, pre-hunter Bambi and ten being a monstrous, happiness blackhole like Joss Whedon who delights in nothing more than torturing his creations?

[Master Shiori]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

If I had my way, you wouldn’t know who is what. I don’t want you to play any character as a “romance” or “non-romance.” I want you to play and see what happens.

Hah, I think David said the same thing once. Is this something you and him simply agree on or a general stance from the whole writing team? 

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Without honest emotional investment I can disappoint you, but I can’t hurt you.

Or bring you true joy, but I'm mostly about the hurting.

Oh, feel free to hurt us as long as the story  and characters are good. Just keep in mind that David Gaider already called dibs on our sweet, sweet fan tears and I'm not sure how open he is to the idea of sharing them around.. 

[TheRevanchist]

Eh...I can see the logic involved in that process. That deff makes sense, besides nothing says we don't get Aveline in DA3 -still hopes-

[otaku4ever]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...
If I had my way, you wouldn’t know
who is what. I don’t want you to play any character as a “romance” or
“non-romance.” I want you to play and see what happens. Without honest
emotional investment I can disappoint you, but I can’t hurt you.
Or bring you true joy, but I'm mostly about the hurting.../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png

Fairy nuff. I see why Aveline is most devs favorite character [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

kylecouch wrote...

Eh...I can see the logic involved in that process. That deff makes sense, besides nothing says we don't get Aveline in DA3 -still hopes-

DAIII: Aveline, fresh guard of Kirkwall. Press a button and an awesome romance happens. Coming holidays 2013.

[Inzhuna]

I'm a bit disappointed, of course, as all of us, but after those amazing posts by Lukas I feel better. I'm sure Aveline will be an amazing character and our Hawkes can be friends with her. We can even roleplay as having unrequited feelings toward her if we want

[Wynne]

Maelora wrote...

Me, I'm feeling a strong chance f/f is out now. Bait and switch as per ME2.

With all due respect, that is utter crap. Mike Laidlaw wouldn't say that there would be romance options for players of all genders and orientations if it wasn't true. He's too knowledgeable and too nice a guy to lie on such an epic scale.

Liara was an alien, so the ME team could pull that "what same-sex romance?" nonsense and sort of get away with it. But if the DA team didn't shy away from a lesbian companion, a gay male companion, and a freaking foursome with both of them, why would they suddenly do that now when they chose a known, established bisexual of a particularly adventurous nature (Isabela) to be a main companion? No, no, no, no, no. Aveline may be out as a traditional LI, but S/S romance is in. Period. Don't let this disappointment confuse you about that much.

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

If
I had my way, you wouldn’t know who is what. I don’t want you to play
any character as a “romance” or “non-romance.” I want you to play and
see what happens. Without honest emotional investment I can disappoint
you, but I can’t hurt you.

This is essentially what I was thinking after reading the other post; we believe we know what to expect from a romance in ways, even after Alistair possibly leaving you to be a drunkard and Morrigan leaving you to bear a child you have no guarantee of ever seeing. And that is a disadvantage. We ruin our own experience a little bit in that way. It might actually be easier on us, a better experience, if we learn to expect not to be able to have those expectations.

Much as I avoid uncertainty in most cases, in a game, I... like it. For that very reason. Because not being sure of a happy ending makes the happy endings you do find all the sweeter, and feeling something real for someone means putting your heart on the line. A couple of lyrics plucked from an old song I once heard:

"Sometimes the answer that love gives,
is the hardest one to take...

You sew your heart onto your sleeve,
and wait for the axe to fall."

Modifié par Wynne, 11 février 2011 - 01:10 .

[TheRevanchist]

Aveline is most displeased by this news. (the little girl is Bioware)

[C-Gamer90]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Now, now, my intent was not to say “ha, not yours!” My concern is that because of the label, players will not have the optimal experience. I don’t mean the experience of my writing; I mean the experience of “their story,” which is constructed not just by what we tell them, but also by what they assume during the experience. The out-of-game knowledge they bring to any character (not just Aveline) changes how they interact with that character.

Swap “romance” for “betrayal.” A betrayal can be interesting to dissect, but if you know a punch is coming, you flinch. Everything said has a different context. And if you know it’s not coming, that changes interaction too. For characters and plots to have real impact they need honest emotional investment, and that’s a fragile thing easily spoiled by being aware of the existence or nonexistence of a mechanic/label. The curtain is there for a reason.

If I had my way, you wouldn’t know who is what. I don’t want you to play any character as a “romance” or “non-romance.” I want you to play and see what happens. Without honest emotional investment I can disappoint you, but I can’t hurt you.

Or bring you true joy, but I'm mostly about the hurting.

As much as I want to disagree with your logic and be upset, it makes sense and I wont. Oh well, I'm happy to have a female warrior who isn't going to die within an hour of gameplay AND is a couple of devs favorite character to boot. I'm really excited to get to know Aveline's character. 

[TheRevanchist]

Yea...but she better not get with anyone else...or else they will die...as will all who isn't me

[Shiro_the_Gambler]

Still having trouble coming to terms with this. I guess it just another reason to have low expectations even if it is Bioware. Aveline is going to be a Sten clone with a dash of Samara thrown in. Fenris is Morrigan with some Sten flavoring. Merrill is Alistair crossed with Leilana. Anders is probably going to be Wynne with a splash of Leilana. Varric, no doubt, is going to be a rehash of Bodahn with Zevran. Isabella is kind of tough, oh wait, no she isn't; easily Zevran with a dash of Morrigan.



Let's see for romances should be a little difficult, but I don't think so. Since Aveline is out; guess Isabella is going to fill Zevran's role. Merrill is going to fill Alistair's. Fenris is going to be Morrigan's mirror. Anders will probably take the role of Leilana. Until I'm proven wrong this is how I'm going to look at.

[JediHealerCosmin]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Now, now, my intent was not to say “ha, not yours!” My concern is that because of the label, players will not have the optimal experience. I don’t mean the experience of my writing; I mean the experience of “their story,” which is constructed not just by what we tell them, but also by what they assume during the experience. The out-of-game knowledge they bring to any character (not just Aveline) changes how they interact with that character.

Swap “romance” for “betrayal.” A betrayal can be interesting to dissect, but if you know a punch is coming, you flinch. Everything said has a different context. And if you know it’s not coming, that changes interaction too. For characters and plots to have real impact they need honest emotional investment, and that’s a fragile thing easily spoiled by being aware of the existence or nonexistence of a mechanic/label. The curtain is there for a reason.

If I had my way, you wouldn’t know who is what. I don’t want you to play any character as a “romance” or “non-romance.” I want you to play and see what happens. Without honest emotional investment I can disappoint you, but I can’t hurt you.

Or bring you true joy, but I'm mostly about the hurting.

I fully understand what you mean. Thank you very much.
And to be honest, I really wish you had your way. It makes sense and it works. Everyday we may complain that we want more info and a few spoilers, but in the end the silence makes that first experience to most enjoyable playthrough of all.

I may have a lot of disagreements about the way your marketing team handles these things, but that's another story.