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[Maria Caliban]

I was hoping you could romance Aveline but I'm not upset that I can't. When I came back to the boards, Isabela had already been revealed as a companion and love interest, but if she hadn't been, I wouldn't have been upset. I thought Morrigan was very attractive in DA:O, but when I learned she was for male Wardens only, I enjoyed having her as a friend.

The writers aren't denying you anything. They're *giving* you great, engaging characters. Whether friend, rival, or love interest, these characters are what make BioWare games so compelling.

I would rather the writers create and bring a character to life to the best of their ability than shoe-horn them into a role like 'love interest' simply to please the fans.

[TheRevanchist]

blothulfur wrote...

Wynne is nicer than Wynne.

Actually I've never had any problem with Wynne. I don't know how people consider her mean or whatever. I always enjoyed talking to her and she helped my Warden through tough times my simply being there to leand an ear. Not to mention my Warden actually liked her advice.

[blothulfur]

Ooh me and Wynne never got on except as a Cousland, always thought of my Aeducan as not really needing any of her advice because he was five schemes ahead by the time she'd finished a sentence and he saw everybody and everything as a means to an end.

He even romanced Leliana just because he thought he might need an orlesian spy and bard while "advising" the throne of Ferelden, lovely cute vulnerable lass that the bastards just using the same as Marjolaine did. To be honest that dwarf was a tosser but a fine deep character with a real purpose in life.

Anyway on topic the bond of fleeing lothering might be a big thing with mike mentioning it on the devchat so do you guys think you'll go friend or rival, because by her reaction to Isabela i'm thinking Avelines gonna have iron hard morals that can be softened with rivalry.

[TheRevanchist]

blothulfur wrote...

Ooh me and Wynne never got on except as a Cousland, always thought of my Aeducan as not really needing any of her advice because he was five schemes ahead by the time she'd finished a sentence and he saw everybody and everything as a means to an end.
He even romanced Leliana just because he thought he might need an orlesian spy and bard while "advising" the throne of Ferelden, lovely cute vulnerable lass that the bastards just using the same as Marjolaine did. To be honest that dwarf was a tosser but a fine deep character with a real purpose in life.
Anyway on topic the bond of fleeing lothering might be a big thing with mike mentioning it on the devchat so do you guys think you'll go friend or rival, because by her reaction to Isabela i'm thinking Avelines gonna have iron hard morals that can be softened with rivalry.

Hmm...I guess that really depends on her stance with important issues...I might agree with her on some and disagree with others...thats one thing I hated about DAO...you have to be an unwitting slave to that persons thought process for them to like you. DA2's system is far more real...because really...how often do couples agree on everything? little to never from my experience lol.

[Wynne]

kylecouch wrote...

Wynne...thank you for your kind words...you made my absolutly terrible week just a little bit better. You are far more consideret then most people I know. It is indeed true Aveline embodies the perfect woman for me as you said, which is why I took this revelation so hard to begin with. Because since I have been unable to find such a woman in reality...for a few months I thought "well at least I'll have it in the game." Looking back at my foolish posts I clearly over-reacted. But I honestly felt betrayed even if it was unfounded and foolish. I can freely admit to myself I'm pretty jelous when it comes to women I like. Which is why the thought of her shacking up with someone else at the end of the game makes my blood boil with contained rage. But like you said...if that happens...I should put that aside and try to be happy for her. After all some of the best love stories ever written were tragic.

So again...thank you...for being a bright spot in a very very dark week.

I know firsthand how it feels to live with only escapism as an outlet for the emotions you want to share with someone. That was the first half of my twenties, actually. Sometimes a game like this is a kind of mirror; it shows you the qualities you value in yourself and others. It highlights what you hope for.

This isn't a loss. The fact that a character provoked such strong emotions in you means that you've learned something about yourself and the sort of person you'd work with; someone you could respect and cherish for a lifetime. She's out there, man. You'll find her, and possibly with less trouble now that you've seen a clear picture of what you are looking for. I know they're hard to find, but there are women out there, who will appreciate a guy like you who values them for who they are instead of being intimidated by it. Maybe volunteering for the kind of job you think Aveline would do would help you meet someone like her, and even if it didn't, that kind of work is its own reward. I'll never forget the week I spent in NY helping kids, regardless of the fact that my attempts at romance didn't work out. (Heh, I was a teenager, so it's no wonder, but still.)

I get the sense that playing the game will inspire a lot of emotions--even more than DAO did, if I'm gauging things right. And while some of them could be very negative, I think many more will be positive.

Even if there is tragedy with Aveline, I think there will be a whole lot of sweetness as well... enough to make up for the losses.

[blothulfur]

Yeah kind of encouraged metagaming which I try not to do, but then again I could never put a foot wrong with Sten i'd come out of a simple conversation laughing at one of his "jokes" and bam +26 approval. Its like we'd got some weird jedi mind meld going on, I had to stop talking to him so I could get the fight at haven.

Oghren complete opposite could never get the little fart happy then I finally gave up in awakening and just worked on making him hate me so he'd die at the end.

Ten to one though Aveline and Isabela are going to have a bit of a thorny relationship, and is it me or was she taller than carver (who's looking more like bruce campbell every time I see him) in the video.

[Inzhuna]

I am actually thinking that Aveline might 'give in' to feelings by the end of the 10 years if you don't romance anyone else and try to woo her throughout the game.

So we won't see the romance play out but we will know that Hawke and Aveline might have a future after the game is finished.

[TheRevanchist]

Inzhuna wrote...

I am actually thinking that Aveline might 'give in' to feelings by the end of the 10 years if you don't romance anyone else and try to woo her throughout the game.
So we won't see the romance play out but we will know that Hawke and Aveline might have a future after the game is finished.

This is honestly what I'm hoping for...so maybe in DA3 (because I feel Hawke will be back for that game) we actually see that commitment bear fruit.

[otaku4ever]

Inzhuna wrote...

I am actually thinking that Aveline might 'give in' to feelings by the end of the 10 years if you don't romance anyone else and try to woo her throughout the game.
So we won't see the romance play out but we will know that Hawke and Aveline might have a future after the game is finished.

This is just what I was thinking might happen but only if you do some flirting for dummies and not get too raunchy...
If the Aveline romance starts in the epilogue, I'll lol then squee

kylecouch wrote...
This is honestly what I'm hoping for...so maybe
in DA3 (because I feel Hawke will be back for that game) we actually see
that commitment bear fruit.

Nah, in DA3 we'll play as the Fex, who are all part of a worldwide courier guild

Modifié par otaku4ever, 12 février 2011 - 12:28 .

[Inzhuna]

We won't get a love scene, but I think we will get some beautiful moments with Aveline where she will say she respects you and admit there might be something else there, but it's just not the time and place. Come on, that would probably be even more awesome than a regular romance. I love heartbreaking gut-wrenching stories.

[otaku4ever]

Inzhuna wrote...

We won't get a love scene, but I think we will get some beautiful moments with Aveline where she will say she respects you and admit there might be something else there, but it's just not the time and place. Come on, that would probably be even more awesome than a regular romance.

It would, indeed.
Maybe she promises to think about it as the game is about to end?
And would we get this if we're rivals?

I love heartbreaking gut-wrenching stories.

So much it affects my mental health

[TheRevanchist]

See the thing with this is...IF this is the case...I hope Flirt lines aren't blatent douchey lines like "Where can I get some sauce for that rump roast?" Because while I laughed histaricly at that line...I feel from a realistic standpoint thats one of those lines sleezy guys use when they don't really care about the person. I want flirt lines...at least with her...to be meaningful passes at her to express geniune interest instead of a desire to get in her pants.

[Inzhuna]

@kylecouch I agree. I don't think that would work with Aveline.

@otaku4ever I'm thinking we would get it even if we're rivals, as long as we express the romantic interest/feelings and maybe only if we reach the end of the relationship bar? (not sure if it's still 100 like in Origins.)

[HolyJellyfish]

One of the most beautiful "romance" scenes I remember dearly from Bioware involve Samara. Wonderful way to tear my heart out of my chest cavity and stomp on it....



Aveline may have a similar vein, where her duties overwrite her sense of romance. I personally find that beautiful, especially for an attractive female videogame character. Such types rarely exist.

[Shiro_the_Gambler]

Wynne wrote...

Shiro_the_Gambler wrote...

Still having trouble coming to terms with this. I guess it just another reason to have low expectations even if it is Bioware. Aveline is going to be a Sten clone with a dash of Samara thrown in. Fenris is Morrigan with some Sten flavoring. Merrill is Alistair crossed with Leilana. Anders is probably going to be Wynne with a splash of Leilana. Varric, no doubt, is going to be a rehash of Bodahn with Zevran. Isabella is kind of tough, oh wait, no she isn't; easily Zevran with a dash of Morrigan.

Aveline isn't as wise or as old as Samara, nor does she have a different cultural background. Fenris is NOT Morrigan ffs, he is "stoic", as his writer has said, and has been compared to Valen a bit. He has a dry, deadpan sense of humor that some people mistake for seriousness. Merrill is a freaking blood mage--she's not going to be all cutesiness regardless of her looks. Anders--WYNNE? WTF? No! Not in the least! Just because he's a spirit healer? Ridiculous nonsense. Wynne never had a spirit of vengeance, and Anders is as goofy as Alistair, albeit in a different way; there's a comparison I could understand.

Maybe it's good to lower your expectations after a blow like this, but that's going pretty far.

Do people miss the parts of my post where I say I want to be wrong?  Now, I could go through and defend all my opinions but this is not the thread for that.  I probably shouldn't have posted that here, but this is the only thread I am active in.  I've only really had two expectations for Bioware in general; those are great story and great characters.  They take a game with good gameplay and make it great with those two items.  I may not have liked the other characters but I was still on the positive side that they would be greatly written characters.  Yes, part of my anger was unreasonable, because I did build up my expectations with this character without any real information.  The other part though, came from an expectation for something different that Chris (or David, I don't remember) said they weren't going to rest on their laurels.  That they were going to try new things.

The last couple of my post were made with venomous intent.  I will own up to that.  The venom was not just unleashed from learning Aveline isn't going to be a love interest.  I got over that real quick.  What got my ire up though, and what caused the overload of hyperbolic statements; was the statement that it was my fault for having high expectations.  Now that I've calmed down significantly, my expectations have risen from self-indulgent doomsaying to the characters are going to be passable, at best.  My point of view has shifted away from; they are only going to use the same characters over and over with slight variations to a small list of character concepts that will always appear in DA titles:  A promiscuous, bisexual rogue with a troubled past/inner conflict, a mage that is playing host to a Fade Spirit, a mage that uses 'forbidden' magicks, and a warrior that puts up a stoic front.

I don't mind these concepts.  The idea of a character binding with a Fade Spirit is an awesome idea.  I think it would be great as a main character, but if a character like it keeps appearing it lessens what could be an awesome character.  To bring this back around though, I like seeing a female warrior for once.  It's a nice change of pace.  Again, I want my worries and negativity to come to naught.

[TheRevanchist]

Inzhuna wrote...

@kylecouch I agree. I don't think that would work with Aveline.
@otaku4ever I'm thinking we would get it even if we're rivals, as long as we express the romantic interest/feelings and maybe only if we reach the end of the relationship bar? (not sure if it's still 100 like in Origins.)

The end of the bar thing always bothers me and I hope that isn't the case. Because you basicly have to metagame choices either way to reach the end result. I hope as long as you express interest it will happen no matter where you are on the bar...although to be fair I don't see that happening...ever...because the game needs a way of tracking the progress of the relationship. Which of course leads to flirt lines...which I hope is different from simply "hitting on them" as it were. Flirt lines that are sleezy and such will be disapointing.

[Shiro_the_Gambler]

I actually don't want to see them toy with a possible love interest in the future. I feel it would cheapen her friendship. Ten years is a long time, but it works both ways. I don't think it's healthy to pine over someone who isn't going to reciprocate your feelings for whatever reason for too long of a time. This is based on absolutely no knowledge of how the romance or flirt mechanics work though. If you can't start flirting with her until later in the time-line then I wouldn't mind nearly as much.

[otaku4ever]

kylecouch wrote...

Inzhuna wrote...

@kylecouch I agree. I don't think that would work with Aveline.
@otaku4ever I'm thinking we would get it even if we're rivals, as long as we express the romantic interest/feelings and maybe only if we reach the end of the relationship bar? (not sure if it's still 100 like in Origins.)

The end of the bar thing always bothers me and I hope that isn't the case. Because you basicly have to metagame choices either way to reach the end result. I hope as long as you express interest it will happen no matter where you are on the bar...although to be fair I don't see that happening...ever...because the game needs a way of tracking the progress of the relationship. Which of course leads to flirt lines...which I hope is different from simply "hitting on them" as it were. Flirt lines that are sleezy and such will be disapointing.

This worries me as Aveline seemed to not like Isabela at first just for being a pirate (this is just my own speculation from the dev chat) so if I get a bit "lawful evil" I migh miss it...

[TheRevanchist]

otaku4ever wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Inzhuna wrote...

@kylecouch I agree. I don't think that would work with Aveline.
@otaku4ever I'm thinking we would get it even if we're rivals, as long as we express the romantic interest/feelings and maybe only if we reach the end of the relationship bar? (not sure if it's still 100 like in Origins.)

The end of the bar thing always bothers me and I hope that isn't the case. Because you basicly have to metagame choices either way to reach the end result. I hope as long as you express interest it will happen no matter where you are on the bar...although to be fair I don't see that happening...ever...because the game needs a way of tracking the progress of the relationship. Which of course leads to flirt lines...which I hope is different from simply "hitting on them" as it were. Flirt lines that are sleezy and such will be disapointing.

This worries me as Aveline seemed to not like Isabela at first just for being a pirate (this is just my own speculation from the dev chat) so if I get a bit "lawful evil" I migh miss it...

lol well I don't typically play "lawful evil" characters because I personaly think that only makes sense on a rogue and I basicly never ever ever play rogues. But on the off chance that I do. I typicaly wouldn't try to win the affections of someone in the City Guard. But still that might be what the rivalry thing is all about.

[Inzhuna]

kylecouch wrote...

Inzhuna wrote...

@kylecouch I agree. I don't think that would work with Aveline.
@otaku4ever I'm thinking we would get it even if we're rivals, as long as we express the romantic interest/feelings and maybe only if we reach the end of the relationship bar? (not sure if it's still 100 like in Origins.)

The end of the bar thing always bothers me and I hope that isn't the case. Because you basicly have to metagame choices either way to reach the end result. I hope as long as you express interest it will happen no matter where you are on the bar...although to be fair I don't see that happening...ever...because the game needs a way of tracking the progress of the relationship. Which of course leads to flirt lines...which I hope is different from simply "hitting on them" as it were. Flirt lines that are sleezy and such will be disapointing.

It's a game mechanic to judge how serious your character is about the respective companion. So that it's clear if you flirted with her and remained at, say, 50, you just flirted for the hell of it and don't care that much. But if you're beyond 75, for example, it means you have serious feelings. I don't really think you'll have to metagame much for that.
Not an ideal way, of course.

[TheRevanchist]

Well that does make sense...but 75 rivalry with romance attempts...lol thats gotta be some angry sex "I F***ING HATE YOU! BUT YOUR REALLY GOOD AT THIS!"

[JediHealerCosmin]

Inzhuna wrote...

We won't get a love scene, but I think we will get some beautiful moments with Aveline where she will say she respects you and admit there might be something else there, but it's just not the time and place. Come on, that would probably be even more awesome than a regular romance. I love heartbreaking gut-wrenching stories.

Aye, they have a way of making you cry, and for some reason, you enjoy crying. I hope Inon Zur put something great together to go along with the romance theme of the story.

In retrospect, the hero doesn't always get the girl.
And most of the time when he/she doesn't, they try to become something more, like a symbol for others.

[moilami]

I remember when Alistair dumped me and started up a relationship with alcoholism. I could've reloaded and tried for a different ending. But as much as it seared my heart, it made me feel like my little Brosca heroine was all the more badass for pushing aside her own pain to do what she knew was right. As much as it sucks to see your beloved walk away from you, even in a game, it can also be a very involving experience. How bittersweet to stab that archdemon with Loghain at my side--my love had become my foe, and my foe had become my man-at-arms. *suddenly feels like a dork* Anyway, it felt really cool despite how depressing it was in ways. It was a memorable playthrough.

First puke on Bioware forums.

Now I am very happy Avelina is not LI in game so she can't be abused by that kind of psychopathic all MEMEMEMEMEMEME behaviour.

Your badass wannabe dropped a great leader who provenly had big support from people because you wanted to believe power hungry FAIL called Anora was better than Alistair.

I raise my hat and bow Alistair he had the guts to drop you. He did just the right thing, he was IC and not your puppet.

You forget by the way that Alistair would had had friends there, and to make it realistical they should had followed Alistair and say forget that chick, she was never worth of you.

*ding* Sten leaves the party.
*ding* Oghren leaves the party.
*ding* Wynne leaves the party.
*ding* Leliana leaves the party.
*ding* Shale leaves the party.
*ding* The dog leaves the party.

*ding* Sten is hostile now.
*ding* Oghren burbs and laughs,
*ding* Wynne follows Alistair outside.
*ding* Shale grins.
*ding* The dog growls.

*ding* Sten pushes his sword fully through you.
*ding* You don't feel so badass anymore.
*ding* You wonder what went wrong.
*ding* You have died.
*ding* You are dead.

*ding* Morrigan curses.
*ding* Morrigan leaves the party.
*ding* Morrigan goes away.
*ding* zevran leaves the party.
*ding* Zevran joins the winning side.

*ding* Anora realizes it is better to flee.
*ding* Alistair is the new king.
*ding* The archdemon is defeated.
*ding* Anora ends up as prostitute in the Pearl.
*ding* Leliana and Alistair marry.

*ding* Happiness in Feralden has never been so high before.

Modifié par moilami, 12 février 2011 - 07:09 .

[Uhh.. Jonah]

moilami wrote...

I remember when Alistair dumped me and started up a relationship with alcoholism. I could've reloaded and tried for a different ending. But as much as it seared my heart, it made me feel like my little Brosca heroine was all the more badass for pushing aside her own pain to do what she knew was right. As much as it sucks to see your beloved walk away from you, even in a game, it can also be a very involving experience. How bittersweet to stab that archdemon with Loghain at my side--my love had become my foe, and my foe had become my man-at-arms. *suddenly feels like a dork* Anyway, it felt really cool despite how depressing it was in ways. It was a memorable playthrough.

First puke on Bioware forums.

Now I am very happy Avelina is not LI in game so she can't be abused by that kind of psychopathic all MEMEMEMEMEMEME behaviour.

Your badass wannabe dropped a great leader who provenly had big support from people because you wanted to believe power hungry FAIL called Anora was better than Alistair.

I raise my hat and bow Alistair he had the guts to drop you. He did just the right thing, he was IC and not your puppet.

You forget by the way that Alistair would had had friends there, and to make it realistical they should had followed Alistair and say forget that chick, she was never worth of you.

*ding* Sten leaves the party.
*ding* Oghren leaves the party.
*ding* Wynne leaves the party.
*ding* Leliana leaves the party.
*ding* Shale leaves the party.
*ding* The dog leaves the party.

*ding* Sten is hostile now.
*ding* Oghren burbs and laughs,
*ding* Wynne follows Alistair outside.
*ding* Shale grins.
*ding* The dog growls.

*ding* Sten pushes his sword fully through you.
*ding* You don't feel so badass anymore.
*ding* You wonder what went wrong.
*ding* You have died.
*ding* You are dead.

*ding* Anora realizes it is better to flee.
*ding* Alistair is the new king.
*ding* The archdemon is defeated.
*ding* Anora ends up as prostitute in the Pearl.
*ding* Leliana and Alistair marry.

*ding* Happiness in Feralden has never been so high before.

....wow.

[Shiro_the_Gambler]

I may be Mister Negativity of late but I don't go about trashing the choices someone else made for a valid RP reason.