4454 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

Dear BioWare,

Your unwillingness to let me slide my virtual bits into Aveline's virtual bits means you're committed to telling sub-par stories with sub-par characters that are obviously inferior because they don't turn me on. Your lack of artistic integrity when it comes to helping me get my mack on is appalling! There is no possible way that you could do justice to the awesome character that is Aveline through a deep friendship, camaraderie, or any other relationship that doesn't include Hawke making smoochie face with her.

I'm not saying that I'm not going to buy BioWare games in the future because Aveline isn't a love interest but that because Aveline isn't a love interest, BioWare games aren't as exciting so I might not buy them anymore.

That you dare to laugh at my completely rational mindset shows you DON'T CARE about me. And not caring about me and what I want is possibly the gravest sin a writer could make.

Love,
Your biggest fan,
Maria

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 02 mars 2011 - 04:16 .

[JediHealerCosmin]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

It causes no end of amusement here in the writing pit that the hypothetical romance I didn’t write is/would apparently have been/is better than the actual romances you haven’t seen. A quantum state, like assumptions about the playfulness of Schrödinger's cat and, I don't know, Freud's box terrier.

Aveline is what she is because it was right for the character, because of and despite player demand for “romance” and “non-romance” labels, categories that I have already said I despise because they restrict more than they benefit.

Besides, taking what players already have is easy. As a tool of manipulation, I much prefer "want."

*long sigh*

BioWare... You can't hate them, but you can't love them either  
All you can do is believe 

Modifié par JediHealerCosmin, 02 mars 2011 - 04:15 .

[Shiro_the_Gambler]

Shiro_the_Gambler wrote...

I would love to be wrong. I really, really do. I am not expecting anything, though.

Shiro_the_Gambler wrote...

Just a friendly reminder. I am pessimistic because I love surprises.

I am just gonna quote myself here.  I will continue to see through these eyes.

However, what truly gets my ire up, is Lukas' responses to us.  More appropriately, my perception of his responses.  If I am wrong, I apologize but until then I won't.

Maria, thanks for that enjoyable read.

[TheRevanchist]

I mean it's totaly understandable from certin perspectives. For those people who role play the character as themself, they obviously won't want someone who don't turn them on. WOuld you settle for somthing else in real life when the thing you want is right in front of you and is not off limits?

[tmp7704]

kylecouch wrote...

Speaking of Seb...what exactly IS he the Prince of?

Cornwall, hopefully.

[Maria Caliban]

kylecouch wrote...

I mean it's totaly understandable from certin perspectives. For those people who role play the character as themself, they obviously won't want someone who don't turn them on. WOuld you settle for somthing else in real life when the thing you want is right in front of you and is not off limits?

A woman who is not interested in you is off limits.

[fighterchick]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Dear BioWare,

Your unwillingness to let me slide my virtual bits into Aveline's virtual bits means you're committed to telling sub-par stories with sub-par characters that are obviously inferior because they don't turn me on. Your lack of artistic integrity when it comes to helping me get my mack on is appalling! There is no possible way that you could do justice to the awesome character that is Aveline through a deep friendship, camaraderie, or any other relationship that doesn't include Hawke making smoochie face with her.

I'm not saying that I'm not going to buy BioWare games in the future because Aveline isn't a love interest but that because Aveline isn't a love interest, BioWare games aren't as exciting so I might not buy them anymore.

That you dare to laugh at my completely rational mindset shows you DON'T CARE about me. And not caring about me and what I want is possibly the gravest sin a writer could make.

Love,
Your biggest fan,
Maria

Oh my...you always make me laugh.  

I don't understand why it *has* to be a romance.  Aveline will be awesome in the game.  IT's not like we even know that much about Aveline anyways.

[android654]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Dear BioWare,

Your unwillingness to let me slide my virtual bits into Aveline's virtual bits means you're committed to telling sub-par stories with sub-par characters that are obviously inferior because they don't turn me on. Your lack of artistic integrity when it comes to helping me get my mack on is appalling! There is no possible way that you could do justice to the awesome character that is Aveline through a deep friendship, camaraderie, or any other relationship that doesn't include Hawke making smoochie face with her.

I'm not saying that I'm not going to buy BioWare games in the future because Aveline isn't a love interest but that because Aveline isn't a love interest, BioWare games aren't as exciting so I might not buy them anymore.

That you dare to laugh at my completely rational mindset shows you DON'T CARE about me. And not caring about me and what I want is possibly the gravest sin a writer could make.

Love,
Your biggest fan,
Maria

That's not cool, you totally took the letter I just mailed to Laidlaw and put your own name on it. I'll let it slide this time.

[Taleroth]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Dear BioWare,

Your unwillingness to let me slide my virtual bits into Aveline's virtual bits means you're committed to telling sub-par stories with sub-par characters that are obviously inferior because they don't turn me on. Your lack of artistic integrity when it comes to helping me get my mack on is appalling! There is no possible way that you could do justice to the awesome character that is Aveline through a deep friendship, camaraderie, or any other relationship that doesn't include Hawke making smoochie face with her.

I'm not saying that I'm not going to buy BioWare games in the future because Aveline isn't a love interest but that because Aveline isn't a love interest, BioWare games aren't as exciting so I might not buy them anymore.

That you dare to laugh at my completely rational mindset shows you DON'T CARE about me. And not caring about me and what I want is possibly the gravest sin a writer could make.

Love,
Your biggest fan,
Maria

When I read your posts, sometimes I get a subtle sense of seething hatred for all that live.

The rest of the time, it's not so subtle.

[tmp7704]

That's just spirit of Sarcasm taking over occasionally.

[TheRevanchist]

Maria Caliban wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

I mean it's totaly understandable from certin perspectives. For those people who role play the character as themself, they obviously won't want someone who don't turn them on. WOuld you settle for somthing else in real life when the thing you want is right in front of you and is not off limits?

A woman who is not interested in you is off limits.

Well obviously...however your not restricted to programmed limitations in RL...which is what I was implying to begin with.

[otaku4ever]

kylecouch wrote...

Speaking of Seb...what exactly IS he the Prince of?

He's the Fresh Prince of Kirkwall


On a related note, we've seen that Aveline is interested in Hawke, just not that interested. (She even spies on him for Andraste's sake!)

[TheRevanchist]

otaku4ever wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Speaking of Seb...what exactly IS he the Prince of?

He's the Fresh Prince of Kirkwall


On a related note, we've seen that Aveline is interested in Hawke, just not that interested. (She even spies on him for Andraste's sake!)

If someone wasn't that interested...they wouldn't be spying on them on at least two different occasions lol

[Icy Magebane]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

You know, I like Aveline, but I'm kinda tired of hearing how Aveline is the most awesome character in the game while Merrill and Isabela are fetid dregs BioWare is foisting upon you.

Fans make anything worse. Tool's fans are douchebags, Bieber's fans are douchebags, Aveline's fans are douchebags. It's the way the world works.

Hilarious.  Except you wouldn't like that if I said the same about Merrill's fans...   >.>

Let me just add one more name to this.  Bethany.  All the hate that Carver got LONG before the demo was released, and with everyone saying "OMG I can't wait to kill off Carver so I can get Bethany LOLZ," that was okay.  Give me a damn break.

Aveline's fans have nothing to apologize for.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 02 mars 2011 - 01:48 .

[blothulfur]

Actually i've got lots to apologise for, but i'd never admit it in court.

[TheRevanchist]

lol yea..."How can you hate Merrill!?!?! shes so adorable!!!" or "LULZ ITS HERP DERP HAWKE! HE DISAGRESS WITH MY OPINION AND MUST DIE!" I mean really...I never even got the Herp Derp thing...that one screen shot of his didn't look retarded or anything...all I saw was another screenshot.

Modifié par kylecouch, 02 mars 2011 - 02:54 .

[Beerfish]

Sure Maria.....just change 'Aveline' to 'Desire Spirit' in your letter and see how much conviction you have! 

[Lukas Kristjanson]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Aveline's fans have nothing to apologize for.

I agree. And like Bender says, we’re all jerks. Probably me especially. In my defense, it’s my job to approach the player as a character, and good stories aren’t about giving characters what they appear to want, good stories emerge when you hurt good characters in interesting ways. It certainly wasn’t my intent to insult anyone, especially not for wanting to connect emotionally with a character. Of course I want people to have an emotional reaction, what writer wouldn’t?

My frustration is with labels and expectations generated by the process, because I think that changes the experience more than anything I do or don’t write. Did you guys know there were romances in BG1? People were absolutely certain of this. There weren’t, not a “romance” character in the lot, not with the PC and not between NPCs. It was downright primitive, but because there also weren’t any “non-romance” labels, people made connections anyway, because nothing said it wasn’t possible, and nobody assumed that the interaction would be less deep because of it. They “wanted” and the game was better for it, even if there was no “having.”

There’re a lot of posts on the forum right now arguing about labels and what players were expecting. Romance, Sequel, Hours of play, RPG. If a player comes at any aspect of the game thinking “it can’t be good because it’s not X,” well, we might change their mind, but it’s hardly a level playing field. And I'm not suggesting that this is necessarily intentional, it's a natural reaction. I'm arguing the ideal, not the reality. That’s just what I believe dwelling on a label does, so I try to ignore them and encourage others to do so as well.

YMMV

[C-Gamer90]

kylecouch wrote...

otaku4ever wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Speaking of Seb...what exactly IS he the Prince of?

He's the Fresh Prince of Kirkwall


On a related note, we've seen that Aveline is interested in Hawke, just not that interested. (She even spies on him for Andraste's sake!)

If someone wasn't that interested...they wouldn't be spying on them on at least two different occasions lol

I don't believe that we even know the context of why Aveline is keeping an eye on Hawke. She is a member of the Kirkwall guard and with Hawke ending up being "The Champion" just means that Hawke has done things worthy of Kirkwall's attention. 

[JediHealerCosmin]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Aveline's fans have nothing to apologize for.

I agree. And like Bender says, we’re all jerks. Probably me especially. In my defense, it’s my job to approach the player as a character, and good stories aren’t about giving characters what they appear to want, good stories emerge when you hurt good characters in interesting ways. It certainly wasn’t my intent to insult anyone, especially not for wanting to connect emotionally with a character. Of course I want people to have an emotional reaction, what writer wouldn’t?

My frustration is with labels and expectations generated by the process, because I think that changes the experience more than anything I do or don’t write. Did you guys know there were romances in BG1? People were absolutely certain of this. There weren’t, not a “romance” character in the lot, not with the PC and not between NPCs. It was downright primitive, but because there also weren’t any “non-romance” labels, people made connections anyway, because nothing said it wasn’t possible, and nobody assumed that the interaction would be less deep because of it. They “wanted” and the game was better for it, even if there was no “having.”

There’re a lot of posts on the forum right now arguing about labels and what players were expecting. Romance, Sequel, Hours of play, RPG. If a player comes at any aspect of the game thinking “it can’t be good because it’s not X,” well, we might change their mind, but it’s hardly a level playing field. And I'm not suggesting that this is necessarily intentional, it's a natural reaction. I'm arguing the ideal, not the reality. That’s just what I believe dwelling on a label does, so I try to ignore them and encourage others to do so as well.

YMMV

Well, even with all the hurting going on, at least I can speak for myself when I say that even though I complain a lot about... a great many things, I still appreciate what you guys manage to accomplish with your stories. Nobody really has to apologise about anything (at least until they start overreacting) because we are doing what human beings ussualy do. 

And I wouldn't be surprised if in a week I come back here and start contradicting my former beliefs. 

[blothulfur]

Well said sir, well said.

[Maria Caliban]

Icy Magebane wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Fans make anything worse. Tool's fans are douchebags, Bieber's fans are douchebags, Aveline's fans are douchebags. It's the way the world works.

Hilarious.  Except you wouldn't like that if I said the same about Merrill's fans...

Knowing ishmeal, she'd probably laugh and agree.

Beerfish wrote...

Sure Maria.....just change 'Aveline' to 'Desire Spirit' in your letter and see how much conviction you have! 

I expect that the game will give me the chance to do sleep with a desire spirit. Possibly in exchange for something like the soul of a Scottish sounding Prince.

As in Origins, I'll probably have to turn it down. Not so much because it's immoral but because it sounds like a horrible bargain.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 02 mars 2011 - 07:48 .

[Maria Caliban]

kylecouch wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

A woman who is not interested in you is off limits.

Well obviously...however your not restricted to programmed limitations in RL...which is what I was implying to begin with.

Do you want to think of Aveline as a real person, a character, or a computer program? I suspect the answer is whatever combination allows you to romance her while you can still find her attractive.

Sure, as a computer program (or part of one) Aveline is flexible. There's no reason for her to not romance the PC other than BioWare not wanting to spend the resource to make her romancable.

As a character, she fulfills a certain role. How the player interprets and reacts to that role is up in the air. "Love interest" is a role, but it's not one she's intended for.

As a person, we can only interpret her actions. If she shows no interest in Hawke, I'd assume she's not interested in Hawke or she is but doesn't want to pursue those interests.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 02 mars 2011 - 08:00 .

[1conor5]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Dear BioWare,

Your unwillingness to let me slide my virtual bits into Aveline's virtual bits means you're committed to telling sub-par stories with sub-par characters that are obviously inferior because they don't turn me on. Your lack of artistic integrity when it comes to helping me get my mack on is appalling! There is no possible way that you could do justice to the awesome character that is Aveline through a deep friendship, camaraderie, or any other relationship that doesn't include Hawke making smoochie face with her.
 
I'm not saying that I'm not going to buy BioWare games in the future because Aveline isn't a love interest but that because Aveline isn't a love interest, BioWare games aren't as exciting so I might not buy them anymore.

That you dare to laugh at my completely rational mindset shows you DON'T CARE about me. And not caring about me and what I want is possibly the gravest sin a writer could make.

Love,
Your biggest fan,
Maria

Although i really like Aveline and she was my 2nd favourite character in the demo (Bethany was my 1st ) it makes complete sense that she isnt a LI, considering her husband just died it makes complete sense she wouldnt be interested in a romance. And from what we saw in the demo she seemed to really like her husband "They will not have you!" it would be a bit strange if she immediately moved onto hawke. Even after 10 years it is quite normal to not want a romance with anyone else. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Modifié par 1conor5, 02 mars 2011 - 08:12 .

[blothulfur]

In the shadows he waited, silent and unseen his sunken eyes watching every swing of the blade and his keen ears listening for every grunt of exertion, it was his task to watch and wait but of late something other than faultless service had driven him to watch her, something he feared had no place in the Qun.

Twice he had considered asking to be relieved of this onerous duty and twice his courage had failed, what excuse could he give to the Arishok that would not be lie or lechery revealed. No the Qun had placed a temptation in his path and he must prove himself the equal of it or lose himself to the way of the tal'vashoth forever.

"Anaan esaam Qun", he murmured hands twisting into huge fists and his young horned brow furrowing in concentration. He would not damn himself to that, not now, not ever.

A nearby sound whispered from the darkness and a raider more cunning than his brethren emerged from the shadows to level a crossbow at the captain of the guards undefended back and hiss, "With compliments from Castillon Aveline".

"Aveline". The name rumbled forth from the darkness and the raider found himself looking up into burning violet eyes that studied him for a brief moment before returning to the red haired rose who was captain of the kirks guard. "No such a woman will not die by a thiefs hand".

The raider felt the brief urge to argue this point with the qunari but suddenly realised that his body had not turned in tandem with his head and that the click he had heard scant moments before was not in fact the crossbow but his spine, his last words as the qunari dropped his limp bodies would have shrivelled the ears of a fishwife but he was in no position to breathe let alone speak.

Later a distraught Aveline would kneel by the thugs side and study the huge bruises that marked his broken neck and the loaded crossbow that lay nearby her brow furrowed in irritation, had Hawke hired some thug to watch her back while on patrol or was this some vigilante stalking low town. By the Maker she would know the answer and punish the varlet whether he had saved her life or not, the law in the kirk was hers to uphold and no one else's.