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[Inzhuna]

SilentK wrote...

Ohh... I got the friendly kiss on the mouth from Aveline after the long road. That was so sweet =)

What is this about an almost fight between Aveline and Isabela before The Long Road-q. I have completely missed that. What do I have to do to see that on the next Hawke?

Just bring Isabela with you, I think she alwaysoverrides everyone else's comments.

[SilentK]

Thank you Inzhuna =)

I'll do that next time around!

[Jarlof Seoul]

TriviaAeducan wrote...

I'm going to try modding Fenris with Aveline's model during the Fenris/FHawke romance scene.

Anybody interested in seeing?

I'll take a look.

[The Cannibal Factory]

TriviaAeducan wrote...

I'm going to try modding Fenris with Aveline's model during the Fenris/FHawke romance scene.

Anybody interested in seeing?

YES!!!

:innocent:

[bossk-office]

They’re all bisexual ... except the stud butch, who is straight? Just weird. So weird in fact that it may be even more queer and progressive than all Bioware’s gay love interests put together

[mesmerizedish]

panchamkauns wrote...

They’re all bisexual ... except the stud butch, who is straight? Just weird. So weird in fact that it may be even more queer and progressive than all Bioware’s gay love interests put together

Aveline is not butch!

[GameBoyish]

panchamkauns wrote...

They’re all bisexual ... except the stud butch, who is straight? Just weird. So weird in fact that it may be even more queer and progressive than all Bioware’s gay love interests put together

Well, Sebastian is definitely straight.

She is NOT butch.<_<

Nor is she straight IIRC. She can still ask a Female Hawke if there could have been anything between them two...

[Inzhuna]

TriviaAeducan wrote...

Nor is she straight IIRC. She can still ask a Female Hawke if there could have been anything between them two...

Yeah, this. She never said "Well it wouldn't work cause I don't swing that way". She meant it and honestly wondered, so it means she's open for a s/s relationship.

[Zandilar]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

panchamkauns wrote...

They’re all bisexual ... except the stud butch, who is straight? Just weird. So weird in fact that it may be even more queer and progressive than all Bioware’s gay love interests put together

Aveline is not butch!

It completely depends on your definition of the word butch, though. Look at her attempts to romance Donnic... She's clueless, and her attempts to impress him are distinctly masculine in tone. She gives him flowers (granted, it's a copper etching or whatever), she uses her authority to try to give him easy duty, and she talks about giving his mother a dowry gift... No wonder Donnic was confused by her!

I honestly can't see her in a dress or otherwise femmed up. She might not be an extreme butch, but she definitely falls on the butch side of the butch/femme line, IMHO.

[Inzhuna]

Zandilar wrote...

It completely depends on your definition of the word butch, though. Look at her attempts to romance Donnic... She's clueless, and her attempts to impress him are distinctly masculine in tone. She gives him flowers (granted, it's a copper etching or whatever), she uses her authority to try to give him easy duty, and she talks about giving his mother a dowry gift... No wonder Donnic was confused by her!

I honestly can't see her in a dress or otherwise femmed up. She might not be an extreme butch, but she definitely falls on the butch side of the butch/femme line, IMHO.

*shrug* I can see her in a dress and with her hair down easily. I think Aveline has a soft, feminine side, as well.

[Jarlof Seoul]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

panchamkauns wrote...

They’re all bisexual ... except the stud butch, who is straight? Just weird. So weird in fact that it may be even more queer and progressive than all Bioware’s gay love interests put together

Aveline is not butch!

Not butch. In fact, to me she is hotter than Isabela...despite her lack surgically enhanced adult actress body. She is as red-blooded as Isabela and less weird, which by today's social standards makes her the non-conformist

[SilentK]

My Hawke just spoke to Aveline after Leandra died, that is such a great scene. The camera slowly moves in close to Aveline while she tells of when her father read to her when she was little. Never really took notice of the camera-movement earlier but I noticed it now and it was well done. Times like this really makes Aveline feel like part of the extended family     <3

[bossk-office]

She might not be an extreme butch, but she definitely falls on the butch side of the butch/femme line, IMHO.

What I appreciate most about Aveline and one of the things that quite impress me about DA2 is that Bioware has created a female warrior who actually looks strong and tough, with a jaw that looks like she could really take one on it.* A plausible military woman. She is never played for ****** and ass, something you can’t exactly take for granted in games. 

I don’t know what to think about the fact that she’s the only female companion your female Hawke can’t go to bed with. It could be construed both ways, if you want to read anything into it: it could be fear of butch homosexuality, or it could be a queer celebration of butch heterosexuality. Perhaps, as some have pointed out, even of hetero-butch bi-curiosity! At any rate, this confusion only makes it better! I do appreciate Aveline! <3

Everything I write on this forum is after a glass or two of wine, by the way. Here’s hoping for a straight (OR IS HE REALLY ...?) sissy-boy in DA3!

——————————————————

*) Isabela calls her ”a woman-shaped battering ram”; I am in agreement at least 50% . 

Modifié par panchamkauns, 27 avril 2011 - 10:40 .

[hoorayforicecream]

panchamkauns wrote...

Everything I write on this forum is after a glass or two of wine, by the way. Here’s hoping for a straight (OR IS HE REALLY ...?) sissy-boy in DA3!

Sebastian is already in DA2. 

[Zandilar]

I want to say something about the defensive reactions of some posters to the suggestion that Aveline is butch, but I'm not really sure where to start. And I don't really feel like inadvertently insulting people this early in the morning (oh, okay, it's like 9:30am where I am at the moment as I post this, but it's early enough).

Does anyone have any examples of Aveline being particularly feminine during the game? I already provided an example of her being "masculine" in her attempts court Donnic.

[SilentK]

Zandilar wrote...

I want to say something about the defensive reactions of some posters to the suggestion that Aveline is butch, but I'm not really sure where to start. And I don't really feel like inadvertently insulting people this early in the morning (oh, okay, it's like 9:30am where I am at the moment as I post this, but it's early enough).

Does anyone have any examples of Aveline being particularly feminine during the game? I already provided an example of her being "masculine" in her attempts court Donnic.

Hmm.... I don't know if I feel that giving a present to someone you care for is masculine, hell, I did that when I first meet my husband. And he is a bigger romantic than me so I have given him flowers as well, a big bunch of red roses       I guess that Avelines way of courtship wasn't what Donnic expected but I wouldn't call it masculine. Unusual perhaps? I baked cinnamonbuns and brought it to uni, Aveline is a smith so she made something in metal. Is it perhaps not the act of giving that you thought was masculine but the nature of the gift?

In order to really respond I guess I would want to define what is masculine and what is feminine, but it doesn't really feel like the point of this tread.

But if I have to, I would say taking care of people might be seen as a feminine thing perhaps. It doesn't have to be done in the role of cooking and such. Aveline always watches out for Hawke, remember the conversation you first have with her in the keep. I says that she's been keeping her eyes on you. She trains her guards herself so that she knows they are ready for the real thing.

Hmm... I wouldn't say that using your position in an organization to take actions in order to make someone happy is butch or masculine. It's just using an advantage. Must confess that when my hubby and I was in the same uni-thing we were part of a group that welcomed new students. I had a hand in scheduling so I shamelessly switched things around so that we would be working at the same time     :innocent:     Don't know if it makes me a bad person, but it worked  

[Inzhuna]

I just hate stereotyping, full stop. I see no point in trying to place men and women on some kind of scale of masculinity vs femininity and judge them according to that. Aveline defies stereotypes, that's why I love her.

Modifié par Inzhuna, 28 avril 2011 - 06:33 .

[GameBoyish]

Inzhuna wrote...

I just hate stereotyping, full stop. I see no point in trying to place men and women on some kind of scale of masculinity vs femininity and judge them according to that. Aveline defies stereotypes, that's why I love her.

QFT

[Maria Caliban]

Aveline is butch. She's a woman who performs in a masculine manner. It's an unusual term to apply to a woman whose primary romantic relationship is with men, however.

I actually consider heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, butch, and femme to all be terms rooted in modern, Westerns concepts of sexuality and gender. While we might use these terms to describe characters in Thedas, I'm don't think they'd conceive of themselves as such.

[Inzhuna]

The problem I have with "butch" is that it comes with the concept of gender roles (i.e. women have to behave this way, whilst men have to be this way) which I detest.

[TobiTobsen]

Aveline is Dragon Age's Samara. Both are strong, independent, non-evil, desirable and totaly crushed my little gamers hope when I tried to romance them.

BioWare is a cruel, cruel company. The LI's I want, I don't get and the LI's I get are somehow killed or leave me after getting pregnant. BioWare. Punishing my taste in LI's since Baldur's Gate.

*shakes fist at Donnic* Damn you for stealing my woman shaped battering ram from me.

[Inzhuna]

I wish we had an option to say a definite "Yes" when Aveline asks if you ever wondered about you and her. It would be a kind of jerkish thing to do at that point, I guess, but I have one or two jerk!Hawkes.

[mesmerizedish]

Inzhuna wrote...

The problem I have with "butch" is that it comes with the concept of gender roles (i.e. women have to behave this way, whilst men have to be this way) which I detest.

The problem I have with "butch" is that I've never seen or heard it used except as an insult.

[Inzhuna]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

The problem I have with "butch" is that I've never seen or heard it used except as an insult.

Yes, and that is precisely because of the gender roles that are branded in people's consciousness - a woman that behaves or looks in a "masculine" way (ie. is "butch) is a bad thing.

[Zandilar]

Actually, it rather surprises me that you have only ever seen it hurled around as an insult, ishmaeltheforsaken. I can assure you that many lesbians can and do use the term as a way of identifying themselves, and pretty much all of them use it with pride.

I am a (very) soft butch myself. I detest a lot of feminine things, to be perfectly honest.

Inzhuna, you're right by the way. If we could see the back of stereotypes, it would be a glorious day. Unfortunately, human beings don't think that way. I'm sure you label yourself every day, and probably do it reflexively without realizing what you're doing.

I realize the proceeding paragraph probably makes me sound like a hypocrite, however. I used the labels myself, I called her more butch than femme, I said her actions with regards to Donnic were masculine-ish. In the latter case, I was actually referring specifically to her offer to pay a dowry to Donnic's mother, which, on Earth is traditionally the role of the groom, who is traditionally male. It could, and most certainly does, work differently in Thedas, which seems to have better equality of the sexes than Earth did in medieval times.