4454 réponses à ce sujet

[Boost31]

Aermas wrote...

Alright, I'm not going to waste time quoting everyone so here goes.

When in combat you usually end up striking for the head & the arms, & the legs, no one thinks to protect their legs enough. These are the easiest to hit & will debilitate your opponent faster than hacking at the core, movies & TV shows where the hero slices the enemy in the gut & he falls are inaccurate.

Her apron cannot be used for smithing, the front of the chest has no protection, neither does her arms, if anyone has ever tried to smith their own armor you would know this.

If you are a Champion & a hero & have influence & have so much money from questing & have killed many many people you could have looted, you should be able to rustle up a suit of nice armor

thats why later she acquire a nice suit of armor
 

[Sir JK]

For the cold hard logic reasoning of that anyone ever coming close to the possibility of combat must wear armour: Remember that armour cannot really make you a better or more durable fighter, it can only turn a fatal hit to a incapacitating hit. Instead of dying you'll simply break bones, rip out tendons and similar. Either way you'll be useless in any future fighting.

Aveline (and others) are running from Darkspawn... who'll kill you and drag your dead body underground if you're lucky (remember, Aveline is a female... dying might actually be a better idea... *shudders at thinking of broodmothers*) so it matters little if she's wearing armour at that point or not.

That's an excuse though, the reason that she simply cannot afford it (her husband got his as part of his profession, being a templar and all) and the game does not accurate portray the world (but rather a simplified abstraction) is the real and better explanation.



Seriously, I for one am glad she's not decked out in plate from the get-go and I love realistic armour and weapons. That's also why I am glad that she's not. To show that it is indeed expensive, rare and a symbol of status to have proper armour. Rather than look at the isolated case of wether or not it is optimal in combat but also at all the factors surrounding it.



I think two of the "rules" of military applies here so I'll end this post with them:

No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection

No inspection-ready unit has ever passed combat

[In Exile]

Aermas wrote...
Her apron cannot be used for smithing, the front of the chest has no protection, neither does her arms, if anyone has ever tried to smith their own armor you would know this.

You come from a very different world (and potentially time) than I do.

[Face of Evil]

Sheryl Chee wrote...

For example, here's a conversation I had with Mary just this week:

Mary: Do you think Aveline could create a weight so heavy she couldn't lift it?

Sheryl: *horrified at the thought that there might exist something that Aveline couldn't bench press.* Ummmm... maybe? I... I don't know. I am disturbed by the thought.

Mary: Don't worry. I'm sure if Aveline created such a weight, she'd train until she could lift it. And then move on to heavier things.

That's similar to the question "could God make a burrito so big that even he could not eat it?"

The answer is "yes, and then he'd eat it anyway."

I think Aveline looks quite pretty. She's no cover model, mind you. But not every woman needs to be one.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 27 novembre 2010 - 11:54 .

[crimzontearz]

In Exile wrote...

Aermas wrote...
Her apron cannot be used for smithing, the front of the chest has no protection, neither does her arms, if anyone has ever tried to smith their own armor you would know this.

You come from a very different world (and potentially time) than I do.

he is right tho...a smith would have his arms covered....and his chest too

[Aermas]

In Exile wrote...

Aermas wrote...
Her apron cannot be used for smithing, the front of the chest has no protection, neither does her arms, if anyone has ever tried to smith their own armor you would know this.

You come from a very different world (and potentially time) than I do.

I have some interesting extracurricular activities.

[Johnny Chaos]

I'm going to start replacing chuck norris jokes with Aveline

[Aermas]

Boost31 wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Alright, I'm not going to waste time quoting everyone so here goes.

When in combat you usually end up striking for the head & the arms, & the legs, no one thinks to protect their legs enough. These are the easiest to hit & will debilitate your opponent faster than hacking at the core, movies & TV shows where the hero slices the enemy in the gut & he falls are inaccurate.

Her apron cannot be used for smithing, the front of the chest has no protection, neither does her arms, if anyone has ever tried to smith their own armor you would know this.

If you are a Champion & a hero & have influence & have so much money from questing & have killed many many people you could have looted, you should be able to rustle up a suit of nice armor

thats why later she acquire a nice suit of armor
 

To be honest, I don't think she will ever wear armor like most are thinking. I believe she will wear the armor like the town guards. Linen & Maille

[tmp7704]

Sir JK wrote...

Seriously, I for one am glad she's not decked out in plate from the get-go and I love realistic armour and weapons. That's also why I am glad that she's not. To show that it is indeed expensive, rare and a symbol of status to have proper armour. Rather than look at the isolated case of wether or not it is optimal in combat but also at all the factors surrounding it.

I think it would work if it wasn't for running into everyone else who does sport this supposedly expensive armour. And if there wasn't vendors with armour starting at price of 15 silver or so. These may be results of game mechanics but they are also the surrounding factors, and it's these very factors that make it rather blatantly the isolated case.

I bet it would be much easier to accepts if the armour wasn't as common in the game as it is... but it is. It's just hard to pretend it's rare, expensive symbol of status when everything you experience in the game makes it appear exactly to the contrary.

Modifié par tmp7704, 28 novembre 2010 - 12:01 .

[slimgrin]

Aveline's skin is protection enough. Even a furtive glance at her breasts is like gazing into the sun...poor fools. Her blade cuts you down in an instant.


Edit: ok, I'll stop with the Aveline jokes.

Modifié par slimgrin, 28 novembre 2010 - 12:10 .

[crimzontearz]

Sir JK wrote...

For the cold hard logic reasoning of that anyone ever coming close to the possibility of combat must wear armour: Remember that armour cannot really make you a better or more durable fighter, it can only turn a fatal hit to a incapacitating hit. Instead of dying you'll simply break bones, rip out tendons and similar. Either way you'll be useless in any future fighting.
Aveline (and others) are running from Darkspawn... who'll kill you and drag your dead body underground if you're lucky (remember, Aveline is a female... dying might actually be a better idea... *shudders at thinking of broodmothers*) so it matters little if she's wearing armour at that point or not.
That's an excuse though, the reason that she simply cannot afford it (her husband got his as part of his profession, being a templar and all) and the game does not accurate portray the world (but rather a simplified abstraction) is the real and better explanation.

Seriously, I for one am glad she's not decked out in plate from the get-go and I love realistic armour and weapons. That's also why I am glad that she's not. To show that it is indeed expensive, rare and a symbol of status to have proper armour. Rather than look at the isolated case of wether or not it is optimal in combat but also at all the factors surrounding it.

I think two of the "rules" of military applies here so I'll end this post with them:
No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection
No inspection-ready unit has ever passed combat

lol really?

ok, my stepson is in the marines, he recently came back (in the summer) from Afghanistan......he disagrees with your last statements

furthermore, I KNOW I am gonna catch heat for this but.....I was watching a re-run of the deadliest warrior on Spike, and happened upon the demonstration of the prowess of the Katana.....basically the guy using it was able to slice three pig carcasses on on top of the other with a single blow...but put even a simplt chainmail on the pig carcass and the katana was utterly unable to even nick at the skin of the pig underneat

same situation later in another episode they tried a Nanigata against a bronze chestplate...result was that PERHAPS the guy underneath the armor would be bruised, perhaps even break a rib but guess what? he would still be able to fight........the nanigata in the "unarmored" demonstration caused fatal wounds ALL the time on each blow......

yeah I think people underestimate the protective ability of armor against certain weapons and utterly overstimate the armor penetrating abilities of other weapons

[Sepewrath]

Maria Caliban wrote...

While I'm inclined to give BioWare the benefit of the doubt, I can see how people might look at Mass Effect 2 and wonder what warriors characters with a fixed appearance might look like in Dragon Age.

I will point out here that Alavine's outfit is already more practical than Miranda's, Jack's, or Samara's.

Well the ME crew has shields and barriers, but its interesting when people talk about practicality in video games. I had this discussion on another forum, a fighter lives on muscle memory, the more you push them away from thier muscle memory, the less effective they become. A person who doesn't fight in armor, if you suddenly slap an extra 100 pounds on them, it doesn't help them. It makes them less effective as a fighter, so if Jack is use to running around in fights with just what she has on, then its more practical for her to wear that than armor.

But its a video game, the only thing that matters is the health bar, she could run around dressed like a Ghostbuster for it all matters. Armor doesn't actually add any protection in the game, it just adds stats that can be applied to anything. It could be magic spells, a lucky rabbits foot or a goodwill from your friends and neighbors. I believe visual design is more important than a half cocked attempt at real world practicality.

[Aermas]

Sepewrath wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

While I'm inclined to give BioWare the benefit of the doubt, I can see how people might look at Mass Effect 2 and wonder what warriors characters with a fixed appearance might look like in Dragon Age.

I will point out here that Alavine's outfit is already more practical than Miranda's, Jack's, or Samara's.

Well the ME crew has shields and barriers, but its interesting when people talk about practicality in video games. I had this discussion on another forum, a fighter lives on muscle memory, the more you push them away from thier muscle memory, the less effective they become. A person who doesn't fight in armor, if you suddenly slap an extra 100 pounds on them, it doesn't help them. It makes them less effective as a fighter, so if Jack is use to running around in fights with just what she has on, then its more practical for her to wear that than armor.

But its a video game, the only thing that matters is the health bar, she could run around dressed like a Ghostbuster for it all matters. Armor doesn't actually add any protection in the game, it just adds stats that can be applied to anything. It could be magic spells, a lucky rabbits foot or a goodwill from your friends and neighbors. I believe visual design is more important than a half cocked attempt at real world practicality.

Muscle memory is to react instinctively, having weight won't slow down your reflexes so much as long as you are not wearing chain, & even then it won't be too much of a hindrance. Plate & Ridged Leather are pretty light., & Brigandine is nice & snug.

[Allison W]

Actually, plate is kind of heavy, but its weight is very well-distributed, so it's actually less cumbersome than its total weight would suggest.

[tmp7704]

Sepewrath wrote...

I believe visual design is more important than a half cocked attempt at real world practicality.

But then visual design draws in large part from our expectations and habits which in turn are based on our practical experience and knowledge, and if you deviate from that too far you risk alienating or confusing the viewer to the point where they no longer feel connection with what you're trying to show them. Consider how the movies go about their visual design -- its very goal tends to be the half-cocked version of real world practicality.

[Atakuma]

This thread is going to get locked if you guys keep going on about this.

[Lukas Kristjanson]

filaminstrel wrote...

Perhaps the discussion of armor realism should be taken to a thread about armor realism and leave this thread to a discussion about Aveline.

Yay!

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Will Aveline have an Orlesian accent, since her father was a Chivalier? Or will it be more of a mix, since she grew up out of Orlais?

Aveline has no memory of Orlais, and carries the accent of the country she grew up in. She is a proud Fereldan but, you know, things change in difficult times.

[Sepewrath]

Aermas wrote...Muscle memory is to react instinctively, having weight won't slow down your reflexes so much as long as you are not wearing chain, & even then it won't be too much of a hindrance. Plate & Ridged Leather are pretty light., & Brigandine is nice & snug.

Yes weight does effect you, obviously it will slow you down and fatigues you faster; even if it isn't immediately noticable to you, it is happening. Having to chug around more than your body weight puts extra stain on you, there is no way around that.

Secondly it effects your muscle memory because you have to compensate for the new conditions, if you go from no armor to wearing juggernaut armor, you obviously aren't going to be doing any backflips. Of course really light armor has less of an effect than heavier armor, but it still has an effect. Armor for someone who doesn't use armor, wont make you a better fighter, it wont make you harder to kill either.

[Suicider_11]

I hope to see character trailers in the future, im just curious about the  allies/enemies shown in her screenshots in the DA2 website. esp the guy with the axe and a mage/warrior. hmmmm.





:wizard::wizard:

Modifié par Suicider_11, 28 novembre 2010 - 12:58 .

[Lord_Valandil]

Face of Evil wrote...
I think Aveline looks quite pretty. She's no cover model, mind you. But not every woman needs to be one.

Of course, not every woman needs to be a cover model. I agree 100% with that.
But I don't think she looks pretty...in fact, to me, she looks about as pretty as Oghren. Not hatin' on her, I'm sure she'll be an interesting character, but she certainly wouldn't win a beauty contest.


Not that I'm oh-so-handsome, I'm about as good-looking as an Ogre, I tell ya. But then again, Ogres are cool

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 28 novembre 2010 - 12:51 .

[Sir JK]

tmp7704: Hence "the game is not a accurate depiction of Thedas but a abstraction for simplicity and practicality". Noone here would want armour to be as rare and expensive as it would be realistically. You don't want to come to the games only armoursmith only to find a price lying in the hundreds of sovereigns. In RL most knights did not own their own armour, but it was provided to them by their lieges. Just like the body armours provided to modern soldiers, the vast amount of armour was owned by the armies (specifically the ones paying for the army).

So for practicality and fun, the game gives us cheap armour.



crimzontearz: It's a joke



The thing is, to give you a sense of scale, what you and Aermas (and others. sorry to point out just you two specifically) are asking for is the equalient of giving the modern marine corps outfit to a refugee. Body armour, helmet and everything. Completely ignoring any surrounding circumstances. Just like you don't see refugees these days wearing that sort of stuff, you don't see refugees in Thedas have decent armour without good reason. Even if they have to fight their way to freedom. Because it's not that common, that cheap or that easy to lug around.



If Aveline gets decent armour later, great. If not, *shrug*. There's no point in working oneself up over her lack of the best thing that's available. She will wear what the writers think is appropriate, not just in combat but also in regards to what she can afford/aquire and is willing to wear. Which is exactly what she should be wearing. No more, no less.

[ErichHartmann]

I think Aveline is pretty and it's good to see a strong female warrior. One thing that bothers me about DAO is every female companion being regulated to mage or rogue...accept for Ariane from Witch Hunt.

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 28 novembre 2010 - 12:58 .

[B3taMaxxx]

ErichHartmann wrote...

I think Aveline is pretty and it's good to see a strong female warrior. One thing that bothers me about DAO is every female companion being regulated to mage or rogue...accept for Ariane from Witch Hunt.

 I to like the addition, and am wondering how long until we see the companion video........................

[Allison W]

You know, I'm mystified by all this talk of how not-pretty Aveline is. It completely misses the point. Pretty is not a warrior's objective. Pretty is for rogues and mages. Warriors need to look like they can twist the head off of an ogre and spit down its throat.

Now, what Aveline is is handsome. She is definitely that. She looks good because she looks tough and powerful, not because she looks ornamental (which she most certainly does not).

Modifié par Allison W, 28 novembre 2010 - 01:04 .