Aller au contenu

Photo

Dear Bioware


425 réponses à ce sujet

#276
ReinaHW

ReinaHW
  • Members
  • 354 messages
Whenever I've voiced my thoughts and feelings on more female leads for games in other forums, the response is always the same - males acting like they'll become an endangered species at the mere thought of a female lead.
They seem to have this odd notion that gaming should be male only and that everything should be male only. Where I live it's even seen as wrong to be anything less than a man, the amount of male enforcement as I was growing up was horrible, the whole 'Be a man! It's the greatest!' thing was beyond a joke, still is.

After years of putting up with a heavy male focus in games, the rare chances of a female lead, even gender choice, is refreshing from all of the virtual testosterone, bad enough in real life.
But it's still something that needs a lot of improvement, like not having the female lead/female choices as little more than eye candy with gravity defying bounciness.

It was a Bioware game that got me back into gaming when I began to give up due to the heavy focus on male leads, Knights Of The Old Republic 1. A friend suggested I try it, even though I hate Star Wars.
Fell in love with the game within the first hour, and having the gender choice was great, I was worried that like the movies the game was inspired from that it would be a forced male only character, like Force Unleashed is.

And when I found that Oblivion and Fallout 3 had gender choice, something which is still a rarity on the 360 when you take into account the sheer number of male only characters for that machine in comparsion to female characters and gender choice, I was overjoyed.
And then there was Saint's Row 2 doing something that not even Rockstar has the creative skills to do - it had a gender choice and the female choice turned out to be a lot better than the male due to the fun voices used, better clothing selection and the fun fitting a female lead a lot better than the male.

Yet whenever I mention that it would be nice to see more female leads, more gender choice in gaming more often, the majority of the responses from males is shocking due to the sheer hate there tends to be towards the idea.
It's like they fear the idea of progression for the gaming industry, the idea of change.

Never a good sign.

I definitely know that if I had seen the trailer and never known that there was a choice of gender for the main character and knew nothing about Bioware and their games, my first thought would have been 'Oh, yet another manly man hero saves the day game, ho hum, guess I'll skip that and save being bored to tears by the same old nonsense I've seen many times before'.

That's how I felt with Origins, before I knew there was gender choice, I was worried that they were just going to make it a male focused RPG like Risen and Two Worlds.
Thankfully after some research I found there was gender choice and kept up to date on the game till it's release, now I'm so hooked to the gme that I've had to force myself to take a break from it again.  Made one very deadly female mage who loves to fry and zap her targets with a mixed combination of Inferno and Tempest.

Great fun.

Modifié par ReinaHW, 18 août 2010 - 03:39 .


#277
Mysot_Stormrage

Mysot_Stormrage
  • Members
  • 168 messages
*sigh* The interwebs is making me sad.........well atleast this page with all its fighting......anywho I'm Bisexual and tend to have to play female characters to get male love interests....sorta blegh but anyways I agree it would be nice to see what the femHawkes look like so I can plan my editing.....Muhahahaha

#278
tybbiesniffer

tybbiesniffer
  • Members
  • 213 messages

Saibh wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...

I have no problem with a female hawke trailer
I'm not Antifeminism

If it's to heavy for you i understand .. Not because you're inferior but that because you're weaker than me.Just like every man in some eyes should be strong and if you show sign of weakness(crying of physical prowess) you're a **** (Okay i'm not homophobe either before you start)..

Seriously it's 50/50 ...But it's another story.


So, let me get this straight...

You're not antifeminist, but all women are weaker than you?

You're not homophobic, but men who cry are, to put it far kinder than you did, gay?


I don't think he intended to be insulting.  I think he meant that if you are weaker because of physical build and not gender.  And that some people, not necessarily him, think men should be tough and if not...it makes suggestions about their masculinity.  Perhaps not the most apt comparison but not meant in an unpleasant way.

#279
Angel of Nessus

Angel of Nessus
  • Members
  • 393 messages

ReinaHW wrote...

Whenever I've voiced my thoughts and feelings on more female leads for games in other forums, the response is always the same - males acting like they'll become an endangered species at the mere thought of a female lead.
They seem to have this odd notion that gaming should be male only and that everything should be male only. Where I live it's even seen as wrong to be anything less than a man, the amount of male enforcement as I was growing up was horrible, the whole 'Be a man! It's the greatest!' thing was beyond a joke, still is.

After years of putting up with a heavy male focus in games, the rare chances of a female lead, even gender choice, is refreshing from all of the virtual testosterone, bad enough in real life.
But it's still something that needs a lot of improvement, like not having the female lead/female choices as little more than eye candy with gravity defying bounciness.

It was a Bioware game that got me back into gaming when I began to give up due to the heavy focus on male leads, Knights Of The Old Republic 1. A friend suggested I try it, even though I hate Star Wars.
Fell in love with the game within the first hour, and having the gender choice was great, I was worried that like the movies the game was inspired from that it would be a forced male only character, like Force Unleashed is.

And when I found that Oblivion and Fallout 3 had gender choice, something which is still a rarity on the 360 when you take into account the sheer number of male only characters for that machine in comparsion to female characters and gender choice, I was overjoyed.
And then there was Saint's Row 2 doing something that not even Rockstar has the creative skills to do - it had a gender choice and the female choice turned out to be a lot better than the male due to the fun voices used, better clothing selection and the fun fitting a female lead a lot better than the male.

Yet whenever I mention that it would be nice to see more female leads, more gender choice in gaming more often, the majority of the responses from males is shocking due to the sheer hate there tends to be towards the idea.
It's like they fear the idea of progression for the gaming industry, the idea of change.

Never a good sign.

If you really care about whether or not a lead character is female, you have already fallen off the important path- the path of how fun the game is.  It seems, at least in this instance, that the canonical character is supposed to be male.  If' that's how the developers want it, then that's how it's going to be, and I guarantee that it's not going to make the game any less fun unless you allow it to.  I'm all for equal representation and everything, but this seems like a bit of a stretched argument.

#280
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

ReinaHW wrote...

Yet whenever I mention that it would be nice to see more female leads, more gender choice in gaming more often, the majority of the responses from males is shocking due to the sheer hate there tends to be towards the idea.
It's like they fear the idea of progression for the gaming industry, the idea of change.

Never a good sign.

Great fun.


Here's the thing: you can make a case for a reasonable justification for the response if we were talking about replacing a male lead in a game, or making new games with female leads, because that will exclude at least some male gamers.

That's not even at issue here. The game has this feature; the lead can be either gender. Every Bioware RPG has had this feature. It's hard to see a reason for restricting marketing. I think you can make cases for favouring marketing one gender versus the other, or pushing a consistant gender in your GCI flavour trailers, but IMO the ME lack of gameplay videos for non-default male characters is just a little out of whack.

#281
Angel of Nessus

Angel of Nessus
  • Members
  • 393 messages

tybbiesniffer wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...

I have no problem with a female hawke trailer
I'm not Antifeminism

If it's to heavy for you i understand .. Not because you're inferior but that because you're weaker than me.Just like every man in some eyes should be strong and if you show sign of weakness(crying of physical prowess) you're a **** (Okay i'm not homophobe either before you start)..

Seriously it's 50/50 ...But it's another story.


So, let me get this straight...

You're not antifeminist, but all women are weaker than you?

You're not homophobic, but men who cry are, to put it far kinder than you did, gay?


I don't think he intended to be insulting.  I think he meant that if you are weaker because of physical build and not gender.  And that some people, not necessarily him, think men should be tough and if not...it makes suggestions about their masculinity.  Perhaps not the most apt comparison but not meant in an unpleasant way.

Yes, but that notion of masculinity is based on oldschool arrogance.  Crying does not make you any less of a man- it just means that you don't have the emotional scarring that prevents you from showing any feeling at all.  

That said, this thread is getting a little too political and serious.  Lets lighten it up, shall we?

Posted Image

#282
Mysot_Stormrage

Mysot_Stormrage
  • Members
  • 168 messages

Angel of Nessus wrote...

tybbiesniffer wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...

I have no problem with a female hawke trailer
I'm not Antifeminism

If it's to heavy for you i understand .. Not because you're inferior but that because you're weaker than me.Just like every man in some eyes should be strong and if you show sign of weakness(crying of physical prowess) you're a **** (Okay i'm not homophobe either before you start)..

Seriously it's 50/50 ...But it's another story.


So, let me get this straight...

You're not antifeminist, but all women are weaker than you?

You're not homophobic, but men who cry are, to put it far kinder than you did, gay?


I don't think he intended to be insulting.  I think he meant that if you are weaker because of physical build and not gender.  And that some people, not necessarily him, think men should be tough and if not...it makes suggestions about their masculinity.  Perhaps not the most apt comparison but not meant in an unpleasant way.

Yes, but that notion of masculinity is based on oldschool arrogance.  Crying does not make you any less of a man- it just means that you don't have the emotional scarring that prevents you from showing any feeling at all.  

That said, this thread is getting a little too political and serious.  Lets lighten it up, shall we?

Posted Image


I can shamelessly say I giggled and smiled at that for 3 minutes.....

#283
yhibiki

yhibiki
  • Members
  • 127 messages

Angel of Nessus wrote...
If you really care about whether or
not a lead character is female, you have already fallen off the
important path- the path of how fun the game is.  It seems, at
least in this instance, that the canonical character is supposed to be
male.  If' that's how the developers want it, then that's how it's going
to be, and I guarantee that it's not going to make the game any less
fun unless you allow it to.  I'm all for equal representation and
everything, but this seems like a bit of a stretched argument.


One person's personal choices do not in any way affect you. I agree with ReinaHW's assessment: I couldn't get into Alpha Protocol because it was yet again a game where I'm a white dude saving the world being manly and seducing a bunch of ladies. I wouldn't be playing ME or DAO if I couldn't pick a female character. Or rather: I wouldn't have paid for the games; I'd have borrowed it off my friend and let it end like that. I got into the games a lot more thanks to being able to choose my gender.

In any case, Dragon Age does allow for a female main character, and it would be very nice for us considering buying the game to see how the female main character plays out in the games. Not asking for Bioware to remove any hint of a male Hawke; I just want to see a glimpse of fem!Hawke (and the LI's for fem!Hawke, yeah, that'd be nice too.)

#284
tybbiesniffer

tybbiesniffer
  • Members
  • 213 messages

Angel of Nessus wrote...

tybbiesniffer wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...

I have no problem with a female hawke trailer
I'm not Antifeminism

If it's to heavy for you i understand .. Not because you're inferior but that because you're weaker than me.Just like every man in some eyes should be strong and if you show sign of weakness(crying of physical prowess) you're a **** (Okay i'm not homophobe either before you start)..

Seriously it's 50/50 ...But it's another story.


So, let me get this straight...

You're not antifeminist, but all women are weaker than you?

You're not homophobic, but men who cry are, to put it far kinder than you did, gay?


I don't think he intended to be insulting.  I think he meant that if you are weaker because of physical build and not gender.  And that some people, not necessarily him, think men should be tough and if not...it makes suggestions about their masculinity.  Perhaps not the most apt comparison but not meant in an unpleasant way.

Yes, but that notion of masculinity is based on oldschool arrogance.  Crying does not make you any less of a man- it just means that you don't have the emotional scarring that prevents you from showing any feeling at all.  

That said, this thread is getting a little too political and serious.  Lets lighten it up, shall we?

Posted Image


Hehe    I could do that...when I was younger....and much less sober.

(And I do agree with you about the out-dated idea of masculinity.)

#285
ReinaHW

ReinaHW
  • Members
  • 354 messages
Thats why cat's shouldn't get to play Twister.



I don't have fun with games that have male only characters with no gender choice due to being unable to identify with the character, I feel no connection and end up not caring at all about what happens to them, beyond hoping they'll die and a female lead can take over so that maybe the game will have a better chance of being enjoyable.

I like to be able to identify with the character, to care about the progression of them. Not be bored to tears of yet another male character I care nothing for, which in turn causes me to lose any focus on the game.



Having a choice helps.

#286
Ziggy

Ziggy
  • Members
  • 760 messages

tybbiesniffer wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...
I have no problem with a female hawke trailer
I'm not Antifeminism

If it's to heavy for you i understand .. Not because you're inferior but that because you're weaker than me.Just like every man in some eyes should be strong and if you show sign of weakness(crying of physical prowess) you're a **** (Okay i'm not homophobe either before you start)..

Seriously it's 50/50 ...But it's another story.

So, let me get this straight...

You're not antifeminist, but all women are weaker than you?

You're not homophobic, but men who cry are, to put it far kinder than you did, gay?


I don't think he intended to be insulting.  I think he meant that if you are weaker because of physical build and not gender.  And that some people, not necessarily him, think men should be tough and if not...it makes suggestions about their masculinity.  Perhaps not the most apt comparison but not meant in an unpleasant way.

It's true though, the same group who are anti-feminist also tend to be anti-men-doing-anything-they-perceive-as-'unmanly', which is just as unfair.

#287
Vandrayke

Vandrayke
  • Members
  • 643 messages

In Exile wrote...

ReinaHW wrote...

Yet whenever I mention that it would be nice to see more female leads, more gender choice in gaming more often, the majority of the responses from males is shocking due to the sheer hate there tends to be towards the idea.
It's like they fear the idea of progression for the gaming industry, the idea of change.

Never a good sign.

Great fun.


Here's the thing: you can make a case for a reasonable justification for the response if we were talking about replacing a male lead in a game, or making new games with female leads, because that will exclude at least some male gamers.

That's not even at issue here. The game has this feature; the lead can be either gender. Every Bioware RPG has had this feature. It's hard to see a reason for restricting marketing. I think you can make cases for favouring marketing one gender versus the other, or pushing a consistant gender in your GCI flavour trailers, but IMO the ME lack of gameplay videos for non-default male characters is just a little out of whack.


lol not really... they have a certain budget and then have to decide the most effective way to allocate said budget.  In this process, they have to omit a lot of things they would like to do and have to settle on doing only the things that they think will be the most effective.  :)

Modifié par Vandrayke, 18 août 2010 - 03:56 .


#288
Mysot_Stormrage

Mysot_Stormrage
  • Members
  • 168 messages

Em23 wrote...

tybbiesniffer wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...
I have no problem with a female hawke trailer
I'm not Antifeminism

If it's to heavy for you i understand .. Not because you're inferior but that because you're weaker than me.Just like every man in some eyes should be strong and if you show sign of weakness(crying of physical prowess) you're a **** (Okay i'm not homophobe either before you start)..

Seriously it's 50/50 ...But it's another story.

So, let me get this straight...

You're not antifeminist, but all women are weaker than you?

You're not homophobic, but men who cry are, to put it far kinder than you did, gay?


I don't think he intended to be insulting.  I think he meant that if you are weaker because of physical build and not gender.  And that some people, not necessarily him, think men should be tough and if not...it makes suggestions about their masculinity.  Perhaps not the most apt comparison but not meant in an unpleasant way.

It's true though, the same group who are anti-feminist also tend to be anti-men-doing-anything-they-perceive-as-'unmanly', which is just as unfair.


I just ignore them, they're those crotchety old guys with ugger beards in the old run down kareoke bars anyways....just avoid them and their smelly bars :P

#289
Saibh

Saibh
  • Members
  • 8 071 messages

Vandrayke wrote...

In Exile wrote...

ReinaHW wrote...

Yet whenever I mention that it would be nice to see more female leads, more gender choice in gaming more often, the majority of the responses from males is shocking due to the sheer hate there tends to be towards the idea.
It's like they fear the idea of progression for the gaming industry, the idea of change.

Never a good sign.

Great fun.


Here's the thing: you can make a case for a reasonable justification for the response if we were talking about replacing a male lead in a game, or making new games with female leads, because that will exclude at least some male gamers.

That's not even at issue here. The game has this feature; the lead can be either gender. Every Bioware RPG has had this feature. It's hard to see a reason for restricting marketing. I think you can make cases for favouring marketing one gender versus the other, or pushing a consistant gender in your GCI flavour trailers, but IMO the ME lack of gameplay videos for non-default male characters is just a little out of whack.


lol not really... they have a certain budget and then have to decide the most effective way to allocate said budget.  In this process, they have to omit a lot of things they would like to do and have to settle on doing only the things that they think will be the most effective.  :)


I don't even really care about mass-marketing. It can't cost anything extra to put concept art up on the site? Even to cobble together a trailer--CG not necessary--isn't going to take a hefty chunk out of their budget.

#290
Beocat

Beocat
  • Members
  • 1 109 messages
I also think a female lead, or a representation of one, is not too much to ask for future games. They give us the option, so why slap a male lead up there every time? Heck...we didn't even have trailers with our female's voice in it for Mass Effect that I can remember. I actually know a couple of guys that prefer playing female leads, and yes they are straight. I'm guessing from the males that they do play they don't like the bodybuilder body on any character... Regardless, please consider shining more light on us Bioware.



We are here and we are just as loyal as the guys.

#291
tybbiesniffer

tybbiesniffer
  • Members
  • 213 messages

Mysot_Stormrage wrote...

Em23 wrote...

tybbiesniffer wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...
I have no problem with a female hawke trailer
I'm not Antifeminism

If it's to heavy for you i understand .. Not because you're inferior but that because you're weaker than me.Just like every man in some eyes should be strong and if you show sign of weakness(crying of physical prowess) you're a **** (Okay i'm not homophobe either before you start)..

Seriously it's 50/50 ...But it's another story.

So, let me get this straight...

You're not antifeminist, but all women are weaker than you?

You're not homophobic, but men who cry are, to put it far kinder than you did, gay?


I don't think he intended to be insulting.  I think he meant that if you are weaker because of physical build and not gender.  And that some people, not necessarily him, think men should be tough and if not...it makes suggestions about their masculinity.  Perhaps not the most apt comparison but not meant in an unpleasant way.

It's true though, the same group who are anti-feminist also tend to be anti-men-doing-anything-they-perceive-as-'unmanly', which is just as unfair.


I just ignore them, they're those crotchety old guys with ugger beards in the old run down kareoke bars anyways....just avoid them and their smelly bars :P


Hehe   I wish I lived where you do.  Here, that's the default attitude of the region.  The only thing my town has is bars and churches if that gives you an idea.  

#292
Angel of Nessus

Angel of Nessus
  • Members
  • 393 messages

ReinaHW wrote...

Thats why cat's shouldn't get to play Twister.

I don't have fun with games that have male only characters with no gender choice due to being unable to identify with the character, I feel no connection and end up not caring at all about what happens to them, beyond hoping they'll die and a female lead can take over so that maybe the game will have a better chance of being enjoyable.
I like to be able to identify with the character, to care about the progression of them. Not be bored to tears of yet another male character I care nothing for, which in turn causes me to lose any focus on the game.

Having a choice helps.

I can agree with that- and if this is the point you were trying to make all along, I don't see what the argument is.

#293
Mysot_Stormrage

Mysot_Stormrage
  • Members
  • 168 messages

tybbiesniffer wrote...

Hehe   I wish I lived where you do.  Here, that's the default attitude of the region.  The only thing my town has is bars and churches if that gives you an idea.  


Silly just go to the gaybars on Housenight! Back on topic --- I don't really see why they don't make videos with she-heroes, afterall all my WoW-Geek-Friends like to play she-elfs cause they "don't want to stare at a guys butt" hehehe :D You'd think since these geeks played DA and alot of them rolled fems, and most men I know rolled a femshep....that they would make a trailer or atleast a single concept art of femhawke.....

Modifié par Mysot_Stormrage, 18 août 2010 - 04:10 .


#294
Bryy_Miller

Bryy_Miller
  • Members
  • 7 676 messages

Suprez30 wrote...
I have no problem with a female hawke trailer
I'm not Antifeminism

If it's to heavy for you i understand .. Not because you're inferior but that because you're weaker than me.Just like every man in some eyes should be strong and if you show sign of weakness(crying of physical prowess) you're a **** (Okay i'm not homophobe either before you start)..

Seriously it's 50/50 ...But it's another story.


Wait.
My mind is spinning at the amount of.... shenanigans... in your post, Supes.
You just implied that women are dumber than men, right?
Wow.

#295
ReinaHW

ReinaHW
  • Members
  • 354 messages
Because no matter how often I explain my reasons, someone always has to argue that it's 'wrong' and 'not manly'.

As for the person who implied that women are dumber than men and much weaker, if I had that owl picture I've seen online a lot I would have that appearing.
Intellect is something that's aqquired, I know of a lot of men who barely have the intellect to switch on a light without it breaking into a  fight over which one of them is manly enough to do it.
Just as I've seen some women who are so intellectly limited that it's amazing they can blink while they talk.

I've also seen a few men who are quite intellingent, not many, but a few.  Just as I've seen seen women who are extremely smart.
Of course intellect tends to be frowned upon when it's regarded as easier and less hassle to be thicker than a brick.

As for strength, physical strength isn't the only kind of strength, there's a strong free will, a strong mind, a strong sense of conviction.  Strength doesn't just men how many beach presses you can do and how many muscles you have, strength can be in how you handle life, how you get through each day.

Modifié par ReinaHW, 18 août 2010 - 04:19 .


#296
Mysot_Stormrage

Mysot_Stormrage
  • Members
  • 168 messages

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...
I have no problem with a female hawke trailer
I'm not Antifeminism

If it's to heavy for you i understand .. Not because you're inferior but that because you're weaker than me.Just like every man in some eyes should be strong and if you show sign of weakness(crying of physical prowess) you're a **** (Okay i'm not homophobe either before you start)..

Seriously it's 50/50 ...But it's another story.


Wait.
My mind is spinning at the amount of.... shenanigans... in your post, Supes.
You just implied that women are dumber than men, right?
Wow.


Yes.......something like that, sad isn't it, its like were stuck in the 1800s.......

#297
Bryy_Miller

Bryy_Miller
  • Members
  • 7 676 messages

ReinaHW wrote...

Because no matter how often I explain my reasons, someone always has to argue that it's 'wrong' and 'not manly'.


Cats playing Twister? Well, I mean, if they are male cats...

#298
Mysot_Stormrage

Mysot_Stormrage
  • Members
  • 168 messages

Bryy_Miller wrote...

ReinaHW wrote...

Because no matter how often I explain my reasons, someone always has to argue that it's 'wrong' and 'not manly'.


Cats playing Twister? Well, I mean, if they are male cats...


Everyone plays Twister!!!

#299
Davony

Davony
  • Members
  • 6 messages
I love dragon age it's a game of relation and decisions and so much more but the on thing that made it one of my most played games it's because I felt like it was my game I could create my own player and dident have to feel like I am playing someone els game but now I look at part 2 and I like it but it's not my game am playing your story not mine I can't make my own player making it feel like my story I hope some ppl understand what I mine but by me saying this won't chang anything but I hope for part 3 u make it different plz

#300
mordy_was_here

mordy_was_here
  • Members
  • 770 messages

Davony wrote...

I love dragon age it's a game of relation and decisions and so much more but the on thing that made it one of my most played games it's because I felt like it was my game I could create my own player and dident have to feel like I am playing someone els game but now I look at part 2 and I like it but it's not my game am playing your story not mine I can't make my own player making it feel like my story I hope some ppl understand what I mine but by me saying this won't chang anything but I hope for part 3 u make it different plz


I think my brain just died.