425 réponses à ce sujet

[Kohaku]

C9316 wrote...
I agree with your statement but if some people aren't going to take the time to pay attention to detail then not being aware is their fault and should not be blamed on the company.

This is pretty much what I said in another thread. If you can't take the time to be informed then that's your problem. Enough information is out there (Internet, Magazines) that it's easy to find the answer to certain questions in seconds.

@sw33t nothings - I totally agree with a lot you said as well. I'm one of those girls that likes her chainmail bikinis (so sue me). I also would love to see a woman in the marketing materials but it's not going to stop me from buying the game if I don't, just like you said.

[JustValiant]

 I wonder if the female default Hawke will create the same excitement in the community t)  like her male counterpart did -  especially in the female part of the network as it seems. 

[Kohaku]

StarMarine wrote...

 I wonder if the female default Hawke will create the same excitement in the community t)  like her male counterpart did -  especially in the female part of the network as it seems. 

I wonder that too. We've embraced Default Hawke when just a few weeks ago lots of people wanted to kill him with fire. I'm actually shocked at the turn around.

[Enshaid]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

StarMarine wrote...

 I wonder if the female default Hawke will create the same excitement in the community t)  like her male counterpart did -  especially in the female part of the network as it seems. 

I wonder that too. We've embraced Default Hawke when just a few weeks ago lots of people wanted to kill him with fire. I'm actually shocked at the turn around.

*points at sig*

[Kohaku]

He makes me want to push the LI question. Ha.

Modifié par Kerridan Kaiba, 19 août 2010 - 01:56 .

[C9316]

Freek on a Leesh wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

StarMarine wrote...

 I wonder if the female default Hawke will create the same excitement in the community t)  like her male counterpart did -  especially in the female part of the network as it seems. 

I wonder that too. We've embraced Default Hawke when just a few weeks ago lots of people wanted to kill him with fire. I'm actually shocked at the turn around.

*points at sig*

I wonder who his VA will be *points at sig*

[yhibiki]

C9316 wrote...

I agree with your statement but if some people aren't going to take the time to pay attention to detail then not being aware is their fault and should not be blamed on the company.

Actually, no, it's not their fault. It's a bad marketing campaign. We're inundated by advertisements from all sides, and I don't see why anyone should go out of their way to find out whether or not a certain leisure item may be for them.

Video games are not a necessity for life. It's something you do in your spare time for fun. It is quite reasonable for people to only buy games that appear appealing to them. They can get this information either through media or friends or just by looking at the box art in a store. If interest isn't sparked, then it's not because the person wasn't trying hard enough -- it's because the marketing team wasn't trying hard enough. That is their job. To make the product appealing to potential buyers.

What is the most frustrating is that the end product has the potential to appeal to a vast audience, but the marketing wouldn't make you think that. Every article refers to Hawke as "he" and all screenshots are of a man, and this newest trailer uses exclusionary language (semantics about the intended meaning aside, in this day and age it is exclusionary). If people look at these articles and get the wrong impression that Hawke can only be male, it is not because the readers failed to go out of their way to find the one article that gives you the proper information: it is because the marketing team failed to market this aspect of the game.

[AlanC9]

What sort of trailer would you release?

[Saibh]

AlanC9 wrote...

What sort of trailer would you release?

A B*TCHIN' ONE!

Joking aside, we don't really know what's in the game, do we? Generally, the differences between a female protagonist and a male protagonist is love interests--that would be the obvious one to include. Besides that, I would like to see various ass-kicking.

Just a good trailer. I don't need "female power!" or anything in it.

Modifié par Saibh, 19 août 2010 - 07:09 .

[syllogi]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

StarMarine wrote...

 I wonder if the female default Hawke will create the same excitement in the community t)  like her male counterpart did -  especially in the female part of the network as it seems. 

I wonder that too. We've embraced Default Hawke when just a few weeks ago lots of people wanted to kill him with fire. I'm actually shocked at the turn around.

It actually makes me a little sad that so many people are jumping on the default Hawke bandwagon right now.  I guess marginalizing the female version of the player character is justified, when the majority is so taken with the stoic, alpha male, obviously heterosexual white male.

Why bother giving people choice when all they want is the status quo, right? 

[Saibh]

TeenZombie wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

StarMarine wrote...

 I wonder if the female default Hawke will create the same excitement in the community t)  like her male counterpart did -  especially in the female part of the network as it seems. 

I wonder that too. We've embraced Default Hawke when just a few weeks ago lots of people wanted to kill him with fire. I'm actually shocked at the turn around.

It actually makes me a little sad that so many people are jumping on the default Hawke bandwagon right now.  I guess marginalizing the female version of the player character is justified, when the majority is so taken with the stoic, alpha male, obviously heterosexual white male.

Why bother giving people choice when all they want is the status quo, right? 

...I think it has more to do with him being hot and doing some cool stuff and us, you know, actually seeing him in action. We don't even know what Marian looks like. There's nothing "anti-female" to liking the default Hawke.

[Mecha Tengu]

mosaiclobster wrote...

I know a lot of threads have been made about this before, but since this one is nice hopefully it will stay open

I was *just* thinking about this. How freakin amazing would it be to have female be canon? I understand that games are marketed to males because they're a larger part of the target market, but I think on novelty alone such a game would get tons of attention. It's probably too much to hope for, but good lord I would buy that game so fast. And I'm tired of being told it's not a big deal, that we should just be grateful there's an option at all. It's easy for you to say guys, you're the ones that are being catered to!

you answered your own question

since males will always be a larger market, of course game companies would create content to cater to male wants. You are part of a minority, and it will always be so. There is no reason for any game company to cater to females if they want to make profit.

For a female protagonist to be canon: she would have to be very hawt and revealing, which I don't mind at all and actually prefer, but I'm VERY sure that many girl gamers and femminists will find it "offensive" 

it is EXTREMELY easy for us to say its not a big deal because it isnt. 90% of all gamers will almost definitely be males.

[NatOreN]

Just throwing in my support for a female canon, is all. And if it does indeed happen, please, keep it realistic (no bikini armor, thank you very much, no matter how appealing I might find it).

[Patriciachr34]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

mosaiclobster wrote...

I know a lot of threads have been made about this before, but since this one is nice hopefully it will stay open

I was *just* thinking about this. How freakin amazing would it be to have female be canon? I understand that games are marketed to males because they're a larger part of the target market, but I think on novelty alone such a game would get tons of attention. It's probably too much to hope for, but good lord I would buy that game so fast. And I'm tired of being told it's not a big deal, that we should just be grateful there's an option at all. It's easy for you to say guys, you're the ones that are being catered to!

you answered your own question

since males will always be a larger market, of course game companies would create content to cater to male wants. You are part of a minority, and it will always be so. There is no reason for any game company to cater to females if they want to make profit.

For a female protagonist to be canon: she would have to be very hawt and revealing, which I don't mind at all and actually prefer, but I'm VERY sure that many girl gamers and femminists will find it "offensive" 

it is EXTREMELY easy for us to say its not a big deal because it isnt. 90% of all gamers will almost definitely be males.

And I bet you think women shouldn't be allowed to drive either. <_<

If done well,  a female protagonist can be just as appealing and compelling as any male counter part.  Gender does not matter, but how the character is written does.  This is what makes or breaks a character of any gender. 

Considering Bioware's excellent writing staff, I think the fem Hawke will be equally badaxx as her male counterpart, but not a clone of him.  They both will be distinct and well done.  For this reason, I would appeal to Bioware to give us a short of some fem Hawke action.  If you need a bribe, I can make you an apple pie after I change the oil on your car.

[yhibiki]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

you answered your own question

since males will always be a larger market, of course game companies would create content to cater to male wants. You are part of a minority, and it will always be so. There is no reason for any game company to cater to females if they want to make profit.

For a female protagonist to be canon: she would have to be very hawt and revealing, which I don't mind at all and actually prefer, but I'm VERY sure that many girl gamers and femminists will find it "offensive" 

it is EXTREMELY easy for us to say its not a big deal because it isnt. 90% of all gamers will almost definitely be males.

Source?

For example, NPD states that female gamers are on the rise, and that in 2008 57% of all young girls were gamers; the ESA tells us that 40% of all gamers are female.

Now, if you have studies from recent years supporting YOUR claim, I'd like to see them.

Modifié par yhibiki, 19 août 2010 - 07:42 .

[Vandrayke]

yhibiki wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

you answered your own question

since males will always be a larger market, of course game companies would create content to cater to male wants. You are part of a minority, and it will always be so. There is no reason for any game company to cater to females if they want to make profit.

For a female protagonist to be canon: she would have to be very hawt and revealing, which I don't mind at all and actually prefer, but I'm VERY sure that many girl gamers and femminists will find it "offensive" 

it is EXTREMELY easy for us to say its not a big deal because it isnt. 90% of all gamers will almost definitely be males.

Source?

For example, NPD states that female gamers are on the rise, and that in 2008 57% of all young girls were gamers; I've also read that 40% of all gamers are female.

Now, if you have studies from recent years supporting YOUR claim, I'd like to see them.

I think a more important question is: who is playing what games?  The girls I know who play games all play guitar hero, the sims, and farmville.  Sometimes WoW.  Obviously, all girl gamers are not like this, but maybe a large number are?  

[ReinaHW]

I play Farmville when I'm not on the Wii or the 360, it passes the time. As soon as I'm on the console though, it's either smashing other racers about, killing monsters, exploring worlds, solving puzzles and so on.



A nice bit of farming before the slaughter of self proclaimed 'godly' male gamers and other assorted things. Great fun.

[namedforthemoon]

Thank you for the source links, Yhibiki

[yhibiki]

Vandrayke wrote...

I think a more important question is: who is playing what games?  The girls I know who play games all play guitar hero, the sims, and farmville.  Sometimes WoW.  Obviously, all girl gamers are not like this, but maybe a large number are?  

Oh, I don't doubt that there's a difference in gaming habits. However, I'm sick and tired of this "90%" stat being quoted as absolute fact. Are there more women playing Farmville than Dragon Age? Probably. However, women playing Farmville might be a different age bracket. They may also, like ReineHW above, play both farmville and RPGs*! Go to the livejournal Dragon Age,Mass Effect, girl gamers, WoW Ladies community. Some of the memberships overlap. Not all female gamers are on livejournal. Not all members of those communities are female. But they are still a sizeable amount, and the fact that we get discounted over and over and over again is extremely irritating.

Besides which, there are different gaming habits for male gamers too. Not all male gamers play RPGs. Of the 60% of gamers who are male, not all of them would be interested in Dragon Age. So, again, I don't see why all the marketing is catering to only a small subset of users.

Again, I'm not saying DON'T MARKET TO MALE GAMERS AT ALL. I'm saying, include a few screenshots of female Hawke so people interested in her side of things have a hint of what they'll be getting!


*I can't find the source right now, but I read in an article recently that most of Facebook's casual game players are women in the 40-50 age bracket. Again, I can't find the source, so I can't verify anything.

Modifié par yhibiki, 19 août 2010 - 07:56 .

[syllogi]

Saibh wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

StarMarine wrote...

 I wonder if the female default Hawke will create the same excitement in the community t)  like her male counterpart did -  especially in the female part of the network as it seems. 

I wonder that too. We've embraced Default Hawke when just a few weeks ago lots of people wanted to kill him with fire. I'm actually shocked at the turn around.

It actually makes me a little sad that so many people are jumping on the default Hawke bandwagon right now.  I guess marginalizing the female version of the player character is justified, when the majority is so taken with the stoic, alpha male, obviously heterosexual white male.

Why bother giving people choice when all they want is the status quo, right? 

...I think it has more to do with him being hot and doing some cool stuff and us, you know, actually seeing him in action. We don't even know what Marian looks like. There's nothing "anti-female" to liking the default Hawke.

Not saying it's "anti-female" at all to like what people have seen so far, just thinking that the marketing team could very well point to all the excitement on the forum, and say that there's no interest in seeing the female version of Hawke represented in trailers and screenshots.

I really don't care for "Garrett Hawke" at all, I thought the Destiny trailer was generic and nothing special, and I was sick of seeing default Hawke splashed all over the place within a day of the announcement of DA2. 

Everything about this game screams "not made for you," even though I keep coming back, hoping that there will be something to change my mind.  Having to look at Garrett Hawke everywhere is just a reminder of how disappointing that is.

[namedforthemoon]

Lots of women play RPG games. It was my grandmother who got me into D&D! Dragon Age is a hack and slash game, true, but it's also a story-driven RPG.

[Mecha Tengu]

yhibiki wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

you answered your own question

since males will always be a larger market, of course game companies would create content to cater to male wants. You are part of a minority, and it will always be so. There is no reason for any game company to cater to females if they want to make profit.

For a female protagonist to be canon: she would have to be very hawt and revealing, which I don't mind at all and actually prefer, but I'm VERY sure that many girl gamers and femminists will find it "offensive" 

it is EXTREMELY easy for us to say its not a big deal because it isnt. 90% of all gamers will almost definitely be males.

Source?

For example, NPD states that female gamers are on the rise, and that in 2008 57% of all young girls were gamers; the ESA tells us that 40% of all gamers are female.

Now, if you have studies from recent years supporting YOUR claim, I'd like to see them.

"gamer" does not mean a one time girl who plays halo or guitar hero when she is at a party
"gamer" does not mean girls who play Sims
"gamer" does not mean a girl who exploits herself in MMOs for gold and attention

when I say gamer, I mean real PEOPLE who play games for the sake of gaming, not for attention

[ReinaHW]

Most male gamers tend to prefer a game where you're the gun on the screen, or some over muscled man with muscles bigger than his head, and going around shooting anyone and anything.

For many males the idea of an RPG, of doing something that doesn't resort to just killing everything, is quite complex. I've seen a lot of complaints about RPG's from many males who find the concept of having to think before attacking to be much too hard to grasp, when they would prefer to just charge in, kill and keep killing.

Aggression may be in both genders, but in males it's quite strong a lot of the time. Many developers cater to that by making games that cater to that aggression, which is why shooters are so popular.
No thought required for the majority of those games, just the gun, generic male character and lots of targets to kill.

Female gamers play such games as well and can be very deadly, something many of the male fans of such games hate. For them being killed in a game by a female is shameful and robs them of their manliness.
But what if the reality is what if female gamers are every bit as good as male gamers, no matter the games they play? While many might play games like Farmville and The Sims and not touch many other games, there are still a lot who like to have a wide selection of games to play.

Applying gender choice to a wider selection of games instead of only male can ultimately lead to more sales and can keep a genre from being stale, like shooters and Rockstar's games and many sports games have become due to the constant insistence on it being 'male only'.
For all we know, there could be a much higher figure of female gamers than any statistics care to show. Not everyone likes to boast about being a gamer.

Oh, and a post just above, I'm in my early 30s, my mum got me started on Farmville so that I had something to do while online.  It's not Harvest Moon, sadly, but it's better than nothing.

Modifié par ReinaHW, 19 août 2010 - 08:04 .

[Vandrayke]

ReinaHW wrote...
For all we know, there could be a much higher figure of female gamers than any statistics care to show. Not everyone likes to boast about being a gamer.
.

lol that's true enough.  I once knew a girl for like a couple of years before I found out one day that we both liked the same fantasy fiction.  I'd imagine playing certain games is the same way.  I don't exactly advertise the games I like to play in my day-to-day life.  

Modifié par Vandrayke, 19 août 2010 - 08:07 .

[namedforthemoon]

Anyway, there are enough female gamers here on Bioware's forums in this thread alone (although I've seen people asking for it in other threads on these forums) asking to see what Fem!Hawke looks like.

We're Dragon Age fans. We have jobs and pay bills and buy games for our own entertainment. We're asking to see what Fem!Hawke can do. It's not a big deal, just give us a picture, or a screenshot, or a little clip of her in-game footage. We're not asking for much!