425 réponses à ce sujet

[Vulee94]

ReinaHW wrote...

Most male gamers tend to prefer a game where you're the gun on the screen, or some over muscled man with muscles bigger than his head, and going around shooting anyone and anything.

For many males the idea of an RPG, of doing something that doesn't resort to just killing everything, is quite complex. I've seen a lot of complaints about RPG's from many males who find the concept of having to think before attacking to be much too hard to grasp, when they would prefer to just charge in, kill and keep killing.

Aggression may be in both genders, but in males it's quite strong a lot of the time. Many developers cater to that by making games that cater to that aggression, which is why shooters are so popular.
No thought required for the majority of those games, just the gun, generic male character and lots of targets to kill.

Female gamers play such games as well and can be very deadly, something many of the male fans of such games hate. For them being killed in a game by a female is shameful and robs them of their manliness.
But what if the reality is what if female gamers are every bit as good as male gamers, no matter the games they play? While many might play games like Farmville and The Sims and not touch many other games, there are still a lot who like to have a wide selection of games to play.

Applying gender choice to a wider selection of games instead of only male can ultimately lead to more sales and can keep a genre from being stale, like shooters and Rockstar's games and many sports games have become due to the constant insistence on it being 'male only'.
For all we know, there could be a much higher figure of female gamers than any statistics care to show. Not everyone likes to boast about being a gamer.

Oh, and a post just above, I'm in my early 30s, my mum got me started on Farmville so that I had something to do while online.  It's not Harvest Moon, sadly, but it's better than nothing.

Oh yeah?
Who told you that you can leave the kitchen? <_<

Modifié par Vulee94, 19 août 2010 - 08:08 .

[Vandrayke]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

yhibiki wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

you answered your own question

since males will always be a larger market, of course game companies would create content to cater to male wants. You are part of a minority, and it will always be so. There is no reason for any game company to cater to females if they want to make profit.

For a female protagonist to be canon: she would have to be very hawt and revealing, which I don't mind at all and actually prefer, but I'm VERY sure that many girl gamers and femminists will find it "offensive" 

it is EXTREMELY easy for us to say its not a big deal because it isnt. 90% of all gamers will almost definitely be males.

Source?

For example, NPD states that female gamers are on the rise, and that in 2008 57% of all young girls were gamers; the ESA tells us that 40% of all gamers are female.

Now, if you have studies from recent years supporting YOUR claim, I'd like to see them.

"gamer" does not mean a one time girl who plays halo or guitar hero when she is at a party
"gamer" does not mean girls who play Sims
"gamer" does not mean a girl who exploits herself in MMOs for gold and attention

when I say gamer, I mean real PEOPLE who play games for the sake of gaming, not for attention

why would anyone play the sims to get attention?  

[yhibiki]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

"gamer" does not mean a one time girl who plays halo or guitar hero when she is at a party

I don't know how the ESA got their numbers, but the NPD clearly states their research methods, and how they defined somebody as a "casual" versus "extreme" gamer, which is in the number of hours they play per week. The first study I linked to says that "extreme gaming" is on the rise with women.

"gamer" does not mean girls who play Sims

The Sims is a game; ergo, people who play it are gamers.

"gamer" does not mean a girl who exploits herself in MMOs for gold and attention.

1: Any woman playing an MMO is a gamer. Whatever you may think, women do not pay a monthly fee and spend many hours online just "for the attention." The women on WoW_Ladies do, in fact, tell stories of the annoyances of being sexually harrassed in game when they just want to game.

2: You have no idea what any person's motivation for playing an MMO is, so don't try to judge them for something you have no knowledge of.

when I say gamer, I mean real PEOPLE who play games for the sake of gaming, not for attention

Yes, women who play video games, whatever their motivation, are REAL PEOPLE.

I'm done responding to you though; I hope you're just a troll and not somebody actually that ignorant.

Modifié par yhibiki, 19 août 2010 - 08:11 .

[Vandrayke]

namedforthemoon wrote...

Anyway, there are enough female gamers here on Bioware's forums in this thread alone (although I've seen people asking for it in other threads on these forums) asking to see what Fem!Hawke looks like.
We're Dragon Age fans. We have jobs and pay bills and buy games for our own entertainment. We're asking to see what Fem!Hawke can do. It's not a big deal, just give us a picture, or a screenshot, or a little clip of her in-game footage. We're not asking for much!

don't forget this rule: internet forums are not at all representative of the general state of affairs when it comes to any topic.   

[ReinaHW]

@Vulee
When I made my supper, washed the dishes and didn't have to bother with cooking for anyone else, the bonus of living alone, no one to boss me about.

And if you want a sandwich, make it yourself, I'll be gaming.

Modifié par ReinaHW, 19 août 2010 - 08:10 .

[Vandrayke]

and why would anyone play a game, alone and at home, for 5 hours straight for any reason other than that they like the game?

[Vulee94]

ReinaHW wrote...

@Vulee
When I made my supper, washed the dishes and didn't have to bother with cooking for anyone else, the bonus of living alone, no one to boss me about.

And if you want a sandwich, make it yourself, I'll be gaming.

Touche. I yeld.

[syllogi]

namedforthemoon wrote...

Anyway, there are enough female gamers here on Bioware's forums in this thread alone (although I've seen people asking for it in other threads on these forums) asking to see what Fem!Hawke looks like.
We're Dragon Age fans. We have jobs and pay bills and buy games for our own entertainment. We're asking to see what Fem!Hawke can do. It's not a big deal, just give us a picture, or a screenshot, or a little clip of her in-game footage. We're not asking for much!

Agreed so much.  Just screenshots and footage of her ingame would make many fans happy, and those who are not interested would not be harmed in any way.

[ReinaHW]

@Vandyrake

Why not? Cheaper than wasting money on alcohol and other harmful things, money that can go towards bills, food shopping, a new game and other things.

No way am I going to waste my nights lazing out watching some reality TV junk or sports or those horrible soap operas.

Modifié par ReinaHW, 19 août 2010 - 08:13 .

[namedforthemoon]

Vandrayke wrote...

and why would anyone play a game, alone and at home, for 5 hours straight for any reason other than that they like the game?

I don't know, I play my games (on the Xbox 360 AND on the PC, btw. Yes I went out and bought both the PC and the Xbox versions of Dragon Age) for 5 hours straight, usually longer than that, with my husband pleading with me to get off the computer or the television so he can do something, lol.

[yhibiki]

I think Vandrayke was responding to Mecha Tenguu's extremely misguided comment that women are only gaming for the attention?

[namedforthemoon]

I know. I was also making a point to Mecha Tengu that I am the one who is in control of the computer and television in my house. Especially when I'm gaming.

[ReinaHW]

Just as I'm the one in control of the TV, consoles and PC. When I was younger and used to live with my parents it was like a little war trying to be able to do any gaming while my sister was whining about not getting to watch her pop music videos or Dawson's Creek and Hollyoaks.



Yay for deciding not to get married, nor have anyone in my life in a romantic and intimate sense. No arguments that way.

[John Epler]

Please keep the gender stereotypes (on both sides of the fence, mind) out of this thread, folks. It's been pretty productive and positive thus far! Let's not end up turning this into a 'men like this' 'well women like THIS' debate.

[yhibiki]

@ReinaHW, namedforthemoon: Lol, I solved all those problems by buying my own TV, systems, and laptop. It's all mine mine mine and nobody gets to touch it without my permission >D

Modifié par yhibiki, 19 août 2010 - 08:30 .

[namedforthemoon]

JohnEpler wrote...

Please keep the gender stereotypes (on both sides of the fence, mind) out of this thread, folks. It's been pretty productive and positive thus far! Let's not end up turning this into a 'men like this' 'well women like THIS' debate.

Agreed. Thank you, John.

So back to the main point. Bioware, please show us Fem!Hawke. We want to see what she looks like.

[Vandrayke]

ReinaHW wrote...

@Vandyrake

Why not? Cheaper than wasting money on alcohol and other harmful things, money that can go towards bills, food shopping, a new game and other things.

No way am I going to waste my nights lazing out watching some reality TV junk or sports or those horrible soap operas.

lol sorry I should have quoted Mecha Tenguu's post so that would make more sense.  I meant to challenge the bizarre  idea that women play games to get attention and are therefore not gamers.  

[yhibiki]

namedforthemoon wrote...

So back to the main point. Bioware, please show us Fem!Hawke. We want to see what she looks like.

Lol, yes, fem!Hawke.

Y'know, any game with a decent character creator ends up getting my attention. I mean, I always end up making the SAME character for my main playthroughs (see avatar), but overall I like to give games a chance based on that. I even tried playing Saint's Row 2, except a) I was terrible at it, and it made no difference that I was playing as a woman, she acted exactly like a man.

I'd love to see a bit of info on the character creator in DA2, although that might be a stretch more unreasonable than just a face for fem!Hawke. I'm glad to hear she's getting her own way of acting though, because it was one of the things that threw me out of Saint's Row 2 (and Fallout 3, and Oblivion...)

[Mecha Tengu]

yhibiki wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

"gamer" does not mean a one time girl who plays halo or guitar hero when she is at a party

I don't know how the ESA got their numbers, but the NPD clearly states their research methods, and how they defined somebody as a "casual" versus "extreme" gamer, which is in the number of hours they play per week. The first study I linked to says that "extreme gaming" is on the rise with women.

"gamer" does not mean girls who play Sims

The Sims is a game; ergo, people who play it are gamers.

"gamer" does not mean a girl who exploits herself in MMOs for gold and attention.

1: Any woman playing an MMO is a gamer. Whatever you may think, women do not pay a monthly fee and spend many hours online just "for the attention." The women on WoW_Ladies do, in fact, tell stories of the annoyances of being sexually harrassed in game when they just want to game.

2: You have no idea what any person's motivation for playing an MMO is, so don't try to judge them for something you have no knowledge of.

when I say gamer, I mean real PEOPLE who play games for the sake of gaming, not for attention

Yes, women who play video games, whatever their motivation, are REAL PEOPLE.

I'm done responding to you though; I hope you're just a troll and not somebody actually that ignorant.

lol see this is what happens when you argue with  a "girl gamer" 

you get called a troll/flamer and the worse part is all the other girls will flock to your defense and ofc I am evil

back to my original post: Female protagonist may seem like a cool idea, but males cannot relate to it, unless she is extremely busty and hot, which apparently most women find offensive (funny because most women try to look like them).

when you get into real games, and I'm talking about RTS, old school RPGs (where one mistake can lead to a game over 30 hours later), Real shooters (not braindead shooters with hitscan, and where any idiot can snipe)
There are no women. MMOs are a bit tricky. Most are men pretending to be women, others just use their sex for internet attention. While I have seen and played with many good girl gamers in MMOs, the majorty tend to fail or are there for the wrong reasons

and to spite you: show me ONE WOMAN that plays an enhancement shaman and I will take back everything I've said

[Beocat]

ReinaHW wrote...

Just as I'm the one in control of the TV, consoles and PC. When I was younger and used to live with my parents it was like a little war trying to be able to do any gaming while my sister was whining about not getting to watch her pop music videos or Dawson's Creek and Hollyoaks.

My sister was much the same though we had plenty of tvs and my sister would just wander away to another room.  ~sighs~  My parents still can't believe I'm so into gaming.  However, with them it isn't a gender thing but a "you're too old for that" thing ha!

Yay for deciding not to get married, nor have anyone in my life in a romantic and intimate sense. No arguments that way.

My fiance actually enjoys watching me playing my 360 games and PS2 games.  Apparently, I smile a lot more when I'm playing video games than when we're just watching tv.  I've tried to corrupt his soul and turn him into a gamer, but it just isn't working .  However, if I choose to play video games for 6 hours straight when he's around, he usually just chooses to get the work he needs to get done anyhow on his computer while he casually watches me play.  There are men out there that are completely accepting of their love being more of a gamer than them. 

---

Back to the topic however, I wouldn't mind just seeing and HEARING these characters.  We all knew what man-Shep's voice was, but unless you looked it up you wouldn't have known who voiced the femShep.  In fact, I didn't do that much research into either DA or ME before buying them and was just thrilled and surprised I could make a female lead.  I should have known since it's Bioware, but I was still pleasantly surprised...  Now all I'm asking Bioware is that you stop surprising me and let me see my Christmas present early!  hehe    I'm so bad about that...

[ReinaHW]

yhibiki wrote...

@ReinaHW, namedforthemoon: Lol, I solved all those problems by buying my own TV, systems, and laptop. It's all mine mine mine and nobody gets to touch it without my permission >D

Bought my TV, consoles, PC - which my brother built for me, and almost everything else I own myself.  My mum helped with a few things while I was sorting out my budget.

I hope the voice being used for the female Hawke, unless it's a selection of voices again, will be good.  If there's a Scottish voice and it's a great sounding one for the female Hawke, then I'll be having that voice for my version of Hawke.

[Beocat]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

lol see this is what happens when you argue with  a "girl gamer" 

you get called a troll/flamer and the worse part is all the other girls will flock to your defense and ofc I am evil

back to my original post: Female protagonist may seem like a cool idea, but males cannot relate to it, unless she is extremely busty and hot, which apparently most women find offensive (funny because most women try to look like them).

when you get into real games, and I'm talking about RTS, old school RPGs (where one mistake can lead to a game over 30 hours later), Real shooters (not braindead shooters with hitscan, and where any idiot can snipe)
There are no women. MMOs are a bit tricky. Most are men pretending to be women, others just use their sex for internet attention. While I have seen and played with many good girl gamers in MMOs, the majorty tend to fail or are there for the wrong reasons

and to spite you: show me ONE WOMAN that plays an enhancement shaman and I will take back everything I've said

You have issues and a very narrow, ignorant view if you really believe what you're spouting.  And guys can relate just fine to girls...though you seem to have problems with it yourself.  Anyways, we're not asking for a replacement.  We're asking for a chance to see her.  The Hawke you've seen isn't going away because of it and you can still watch and play your man all you want.

[yhibiki]

ReinaHW wrote...

I hope the voice being used for the female Hawke, unless it's a selection of voices again, will be good.  If there's a Scottish voice and it's a great sounding one for the female Hawke, then I'll be having that voice for my version of Hawke.

Oh, you're making me think of Amy Pond (from Doctor Who) as Hawke now. XD But since it's full voice acting, I'm betting we're only going to get one type of voice, a la Mass Effect. Which is fine if the voice is as awesome as Jennifer Hale's. I was surprised at how well she fit my character. I don't think we've even heard male!Hawke's voice yet though, right? (It's possible I missed it though.) So far, he seems like one of those old silent RPG characters.

[In Exile]

ReinaHW wrote...

Most male gamers tend to prefer a game where you're the gun on the screen, or some over muscled man with muscles bigger than his head, and going around shooting anyone and anything.

Holy sexism batman!

For many males the idea of an RPG, of doing something that doesn't resort to just killing everything, is quite complex. I've seen a lot of complaints about RPG's from many males who find the concept of having to think before attacking to be much too hard to grasp, when they would prefer to just charge in, kill and keep killing.

Holy sexism batman! Regale us with more tales of essentialism. It in no way hampers the discussion of gender appropriateness in video-games.

Aggression may be in both genders, but in males it's quite strong a lot of the time.

Right, except aggression is actually very complicated, psychologically.  Violence and  a preference for violence do not perfectly relate to aggression.

For example, an aggresive violent person may strike someone to get them to do what they want. An aggressive intellectual person may verbally push them until they concede a point to get them to do what they want. A non-aggresive person might do what the other person wants, or make many concessions.

Violence is not aggresion, and you're getting dangerously close to just calling men neanderthals.

More to the point, it is not entirely clear women are less aggresive than men. One problem we have is with the cultural bias in defining aggression. Women potentially express aggression differently, and we need different measures for it.

No thought required for the majority of those games, just the gun, generic male character and lots of targets to kill.

This isn't aggression. It is a type of aggresion, certainly, but

Female gamers play such games as well and can be very deadly, something many of the male fans of such games hate. For them being killed in a game by a female is shameful and robs them of their manliness.

....What? Let the armchair psychoanalysis go, seriously.

For all we know, there could be a much higher figure of female gamers than any statistics care to show. Not everyone likes to boast about being a gamer.

Right, but this is not adversarial. Making it about the morality of gender is the right move - it is unfair to dismiss women as an irrelevant demographic. Making it about men vs. women, talking about complexity in loaded language, that is absolutely uncalled for.

Spare the vitrol, please.

[namedforthemoon]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

yhibiki wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

"gamer" does not mean a one time girl who plays halo or guitar hero when she is at a party

I don't know how the ESA got their numbers, but the NPD clearly states their research methods, and how they defined somebody as a "casual" versus "extreme" gamer, which is in the number of hours they play per week. The first study I linked to says that "extreme gaming" is on the rise with women.

"gamer" does not mean girls who play Sims

The Sims is a game; ergo, people who play it are gamers.

"gamer" does not mean a girl who exploits herself in MMOs for gold and attention.

1: Any woman playing an MMO is a gamer. Whatever you may think, women do not pay a monthly fee and spend many hours online just "for the attention." The women on WoW_Ladies do, in fact, tell stories of the annoyances of being sexually harrassed in game when they just want to game.

2: You have no idea what any person's motivation for playing an MMO is, so don't try to judge them for something you have no knowledge of.

when I say gamer, I mean real PEOPLE who play games for the sake of gaming, not for attention

Yes, women who play video games, whatever their motivation, are REAL PEOPLE.

I'm done responding to you though; I hope you're just a troll and not somebody actually that ignorant.

lol see this is what happens when you argue with  a "girl gamer" 

you get called a troll/flamer and the worse part is all the other girls will flock to your defense and ofc I am evil

back to my original post: Female protagonist may seem like a cool idea, but males cannot relate to it, unless she is extremely busty and hot, which apparently most women find offensive (funny because most women try to look like them).

when you get into real games, and I'm talking about RTS, old school RPGs (where one mistake can lead to a game over 30 hours later), Real shooters (not braindead shooters with hitscan, and where any idiot can snipe)
There are no women. MMOs are a bit tricky. Most are men pretending to be women, others just use their sex for internet attention. While I have seen and played with many good girl gamers in MMOs, the majorty tend to fail or are there for the wrong reasons

and to spite you: show me ONE WOMAN that plays an enhancement shaman and I will take back everything I've said

Dragon Age isn't a real game?

Anyway, none of that matters. The whole 90% of gamers are men, or 60%, or whatever, it doesn't matter. It doesn't actually pertain to this thread, though this thread has somehow degraded into that.

This thread is about asking Bioware to show us their female version of Hawke. There's a lot of people on these forums, men and women alike, who would like to see her.

Enough with the 'men gamers are REAL gamers and women gamers are just jokes' crap.