425 réponses à ce sujet

[ReinaHW]

In Exile wrote...

ReinaHW wrote...

Most male gamers tend to prefer a game where you're the gun on the screen, or some over muscled man with muscles bigger than his head, and going around shooting anyone and anything.

Holy sexism batman!

For many males the idea of an RPG, of doing something that doesn't resort to just killing everything, is quite complex. I've seen a lot of complaints about RPG's from many males who find the concept of having to think before attacking to be much too hard to grasp, when they would prefer to just charge in, kill and keep killing.

Holy sexism batman! Regale us with more tales of essentialism. It in no way hampers the discussion of gender appropriateness in video-games.

Aggression may be in both genders, but in males it's quite strong a lot of the time.

Right, except aggression is actually very complicated, psychologically.  Violence and  a preference for violence do not perfectly relate to aggression.

For example, an aggresive violent person may strike someone to get them to do what they want. An aggressive intellectual person may verbally push them until they concede a point to get them to do what they want. A non-aggresive person might do what the other person wants, or make many concessions.

Violence is not aggresion, and you're getting dangerously close to just calling men neanderthals.

More to the point, it is not entirely clear women are less aggresive than men. One problem we have is with the cultural bias in defining aggression. Women potentially express aggression differently, and we need different measures for it.

No thought required for the majority of those games, just the gun, generic male character and lots of targets to kill.

This isn't aggression. It is a type of aggresion, certainly, but

Female gamers play such games as well and can be very deadly, something many of the male fans of such games hate. For them being killed in a game by a female is shameful and robs them of their manliness.

....What? Let the armchair psychoanalysis go, seriously.

For all we know, there could be a much higher figure of female gamers than any statistics care to show. Not everyone likes to boast about being a gamer.

Right, but this is not adversarial. Making it about the morality of gender is the right move - it is unfair to dismiss women as an irrelevant demographic. Making it about men vs. women, talking about complexity in loaded language, that is absolutely uncalled for.

Spare the vitrol, please.

Not sexist, if I were I would be telling many of the male members what to go do to themselves along with being hateful and nasty towards them.
It's just general observations from a long time of gaming.

[In Exile]

ReinaHW wrote...

Not sexist, if I were I would be telling many of the male members what to go do to themselves along with being hateful and nasty towards them.
It's just general observations from a long time of gaming.

Sexism is not just about behaviour. A sexist who does not beat women, but believes all women are inferior is still a sexist. I can't speak to what sample of people that you've met, but when you start saying, all male gamers are this instead of the douchebag guys I met were this, you've crossed the line.

I if I were to say, all women are emotional and only want to go pla with babaries, this is sexist. If you say, all males are aggressive and only want to shoot things, this is sexist.

[Patriciachr34]

@namedforthemoon... Here! Here!



@Mecha Tengu...Please stop derailing this thread. All we (men and women alike) want is to see a little fem Hawke action. If you don't want this, then please leave the thread.

[yhibiki]

ReinaHW wrote...
Not sexist, if I were I would be telling many of the male members what to go do to themselves along with being hateful and nasty towards them.
It's just general observations from a long time of gaming.

Ouch, sorry, but I'm going with In Exile on this one. Unless you have a study* to back up your observations, they're just your subjective observations of a very limited sample size. I know that all of my female gamer friends love RPGs -- but that's more likely because I surround myself with people who enjoy the same things I do than that all female gamers love RPGs. Sweeping generalizations about any group of people tend to be just that: sweeping generalizations.

Let's just stick to requesting a few pics or gameplay footage about fem!Hawke.

(*Admittedly, even studies can be skewed, particularly in the social sciences.)

[namedforthemoon]

Can we please stop trying to define what is sexist and what is not, who the better gamer is, etc, and get this thread back on track. I would rather not see this thread locked.





Please Bioware, show us the Fem!Hawke.

[ReinaHW]

In Exile wrote...

ReinaHW wrote...

Not sexist, if I were I would be telling many of the male members what to go do to themselves along with being hateful and nasty towards them.
It's just general observations from a long time of gaming.

Sexism is not just about behaviour. A sexist who does not beat women, but believes all women are inferior is still a sexist. I can't speak to what sample of people that you've met, but when you start saying, all male gamers are this instead of the douchebag guys I met were this, you've crossed the line.

I if I were to say, all women are emotional and only want to go pla with babaries, this is sexist. If you say, all males are aggressive and only want to shoot things, this is sexist.

I didn't say men were inferior, there is no such thing as inferior and superiour once equality is considered.

Thing is the majority of men I've encountered in my life, from my dad upwards, have been very aggressive in their behaviour, always looking for a fight or letting their anger out all too often without any calm and rational thought.
It's been very rare that I've encountered a man who isn't only thinking about killing and wooing the ladies while trying to impress them with their aggressive behavior.

And a lot of games I've played, before gender choice began to appear, even though it's still a rarity in the majority of the gaming market, catered to that aggressive behaviour and many games still do.  Violence sells.
Having to put up with so much testosterone in the air and how to be, it gets to the point where getting away from that is a blessing.

With the simple and rational request to see anything of the female Hawke being asked and the responses from some, it can sound like those kinds feel threatened by the idea, when they frankly have nothing to be threatened about.
All that's being asked is to see something instead of nothing, it's not like it's being asked that the male Hawke be removed completely.

Modifié par ReinaHW, 19 août 2010 - 09:21 .

[syllogi]

It occurs to me that what is really needed is a support thread for Female Hawke. Just a place to talk about the potential character, speculate about her VA, and share fanart and banners.



This thread, and all the other threads that have simply asked Bioware to show us FemHawke in advertising, have been derailed or driven offtopic by trolls and talk of sexism. It's probably best to start a thread that is about positivity, and has a clear message.

[In Exile]

yhibiki wrote...

Let's just stick to requesting a few pics or gameplay footage about fem!Hawke.

I really want to see a model of femHawke. One issue I had with femShep was that she moved exactly like maleShep. It may well have been that I played several maleSheps first, but there was just something very dissonant seeing the same behaviour by femShep.

I'm also wondering about the VA. I happen to like sarcasm, so I'm really hopping we can get someone who can do a Zevran-like rogue well.

[Patriciachr34]

@In Exile...I agree with the fem Shepherd walk.  I've also noticed, and it really kind of bubs me, the Origins women all walk like they "have a pair".  Uhmm, women just do not move like that unless they have a rash on their thighs.  Getting the "woman gait" correct would be stellar!

[namedforthemoon]

TeenZombie wrote...

It occurs to me that what is really needed is a support thread for Female Hawke. Just a place to talk about the potential character, speculate about her VA, and share fanart and banners.

This thread, and all the other threads that have simply asked Bioware to show us FemHawke in advertising, have been derailed or driven offtopic by trolls and talk of sexism. It's probably best to start a thread that is about positivity, and has a clear message.

Done.

[yhibiki]

@In Exile:



I'd love a sarcastic voice too. I'm actually really digging the idea that if you play an evil-ish character, later choosing the good options means you act sarcastic. It's more in keeping with my character who is willing to act nice if it means she'll get out on top, but who actually cares very little for anybody but herself. (That was the best part of the Redcliffe quest for me: getting to pretend to be doing something amazing, and then taking the demon up on her offer to teach my mage blood magic.)



I played both in ME1, although so far apart that I couldn't remember much of the male playthrough. ME2 was all female, and when I tried importing my male character it just felt kind of wrong to me. Well, also, I love romancing Garrus and Thane. XD

[ReinaHW]

I thought one of the voices in DA:O was a somewhat sacastic one, used it for my City Elf Rouge and my newer Elf Mage.

[Mecha Tengu]

namedforthemoon wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

yhibiki wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

"gamer" does not mean a one time girl who plays halo or guitar hero when she is at a party

I don't know how the ESA got their numbers, but the NPD clearly states their research methods, and how they defined somebody as a "casual" versus "extreme" gamer, which is in the number of hours they play per week. The first study I linked to says that "extreme gaming" is on the rise with women.

"gamer" does not mean girls who play Sims

The Sims is a game; ergo, people who play it are gamers.

"gamer" does not mean a girl who exploits herself in MMOs for gold and attention.

1: Any woman playing an MMO is a gamer. Whatever you may think, women do not pay a monthly fee and spend many hours online just "for the attention." The women on WoW_Ladies do, in fact, tell stories of the annoyances of being sexually harrassed in game when they just want to game.

2: You have no idea what any person's motivation for playing an MMO is, so don't try to judge them for something you have no knowledge of.

when I say gamer, I mean real PEOPLE who play games for the sake of gaming, not for attention

Yes, women who play video games, whatever their motivation, are REAL PEOPLE.

I'm done responding to you though; I hope you're just a troll and not somebody actually that ignorant.

lol see this is what happens when you argue with  a "girl gamer" 

you get called a troll/flamer and the worse part is all the other girls will flock to your defense and ofc I am evil

back to my original post: Female protagonist may seem like a cool idea, but males cannot relate to it, unless she is extremely busty and hot, which apparently most women find offensive (funny because most women try to look like them).

when you get into real games, and I'm talking about RTS, old school RPGs (where one mistake can lead to a game over 30 hours later), Real shooters (not braindead shooters with hitscan, and where any idiot can snipe)
There are no women. MMOs are a bit tricky. Most are men pretending to be women, others just use their sex for internet attention. While I have seen and played with many good girl gamers in MMOs, the majorty tend to fail or are there for the wrong reasons

and to spite you: show me ONE WOMAN that plays an enhancement shaman and I will take back everything I've said

Dragon Age isn't a real game?

Anyway, none of that matters. The whole 90% of gamers are men, or 60%, or whatever, it doesn't matter. It doesn't actually pertain to this thread, though this thread has somehow degraded into that.

This thread is about asking Bioware to show us their female version of Hawke. There's a lot of people on these forums, men and women alike, who would like to see her.

Enough with the 'men gamers are REAL gamers and women gamers are just jokes' crap.

dragon age is a very americanized and predictable RPG

still fun, but not really a challenge

and you will get your female hawke. It's just not the marketable image of the game (like male shepard). Female hawke will be an option for DA2

[Saibh]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

dragon age is a very americanized and predictable RPG

still fun, but not really a challenge

and you will get your female hawke. It's just not the marketable image of the game (like male shepard). Female hawke will be an option for DA2

Excusing the Mass Effect series, only four series in BioWare's history applied a "face" to the game. Of those four, three of them were women; only one was male. Now we have Garrett Hawke, and it's up to three women, two men.

Really, your misogyny is the only thing preventing you from seeing it otherwise.

[addiction21]

Would you care to list these games and your reasons for "excusing" Mass Effect.

[Haexpane]

Mecha Tengu wrote...
 

dragon age is a very americanized and predictable RPG

 

False!  It's Canadianized! 

[Haexpane]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

yhibiki wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

"gamer" does not mean a one time girl who plays halo or guitar hero when she is at a party

I don't know how the ESA got their numbers, but the NPD clearly states their research methods, and how they defined somebody as a "casual" versus "extreme" gamer, which is in the number of hours they play per week. The first study I linked to says that "extreme gaming" is on the rise with women.

"gamer" does not mean girls who play Sims

The Sims is a game; ergo, people who play it are gamers.

"gamer" does not mean a girl who exploits herself in MMOs for gold and attention.

1: Any woman playing an MMO is a gamer. Whatever you may think, women do not pay a monthly fee and spend many hours online just "for the attention." The women on WoW_Ladies do, in fact, tell stories of the annoyances of being sexually harrassed in game when they just want to game.

2: You have no idea what any person's motivation for playing an MMO is, so don't try to judge them for something you have no knowledge of.

when I say gamer, I mean real PEOPLE who play games for the sake of gaming, not for attention

Yes, women who play video games, whatever their motivation, are REAL PEOPLE.

I'm done responding to you though; I hope you're just a troll and not somebody actually that ignorant.

lol see this is what happens when you argue with  a "girl gamer" 

you get called a troll/flamer and the worse part is all the other girls will flock to your defense and ofc I am evil

back to my original post: Female protagonist may seem like a cool idea, but males cannot relate to it, unless she is extremely busty and hot, which apparently most women find offensive (funny because most women try to look like them).

when you get into real games, and I'm talking about RTS, old school RPGs (where one mistake can lead to a game over 30 hours later), Real shooters (not braindead shooters with hitscan, and where any idiot can snipe)
There are no women. MMOs are a bit tricky. Most are men pretending to be women, others just use their sex for internet attention. While I have seen and played with many good girl gamers in MMOs, the majorty tend to fail or are there for the wrong reasons

and to spite you: show me ONE WOMAN that plays an enhancement shaman and I will take back everything I've said

Mecha Tengu are you this big of a douchebag in real life or do you just pretend to be  ignorant on the boards for attention?  This whole "men cannot relate to... [Mecha's 100 year old sexist ideas] and "real games".

You are a nerdy embarrassment to the entire board.  Delete your account, now.

[Haexpane]

Mecha Tengu wrote...
 

"gamer" does not mean a one time girl who plays halo or guitar hero when she is at a party
"gamer" does not mean girls who play Sims
"gamer" does not mean a girl who exploits herself in MMOs for gold and attention

when I say gamer, I mean real PEOPLE who play games for the sake of gaming, not for attention

Wow, someone delete his internet access, like now before the CYBER PULICE close down the boards for 1950s sexism as viewed through the eyes of a kiddie troll.

[namedforthemoon]

It's gotten a bit too ugly in here. Please lock this thread.

[Saibh]

namedforthemoon wrote...

It's gotten a bit too ugly in here. Please lock this thread.

I don't believe threads should get locked because one troll marches in and refuses to leave--I think said troll should get warned by mod via PM and thread should be allowed to return back to normal.

[namedforthemoon]

Saibh wrote...

namedforthemoon wrote...

It's gotten a bit too ugly in here. Please lock this thread.

I don't believe threads should get locked because one troll marches in and refuses to leave--I think said troll should get warned by mod via PM and thread should be allowed to return back to normal.

True, but when people start throwing insults at each other, that's where I draw the line. Unless their posts are removed or edited.

[filetemo]

mecha tengu should get banned



he likes JRPGS

[Saibh]

Other one was closed...so, uh...free for all spam of Etain/Olga again?





Okay, okay, that's enough outta me.

[javierabegazo]

As per request of OP

we're switching threads once more

../../../images/forum/icon_topic_unread_hot.gif



Please show us Fem!Hawke

[Saibh]

javierabegazo wrote...

As per request of OP

we're switching threads once more

../../../images/forum/icon_topic_unread_hot.gif



Please show us Fem!Hawke

...

You just want me to spam that woman, don't you?