425 réponses à ce sujet

[obnoxiousgas]

yukidama wrote...

obnoxiousgas wrote...

yukidama wrote...
Didn't seem to be a problem for DAO girls, they had huge boobs made of cement that were apparently also weightless. Sigh. I mean, a strapless bra? Hah.

On the one hand, I appreciate the lack of boob jiggle. On the other, the (human) boobs in DA were pretty badly done, especially in the 'naked' model. Especially since the human females were pretty skinny, but for some reason the default was D-cups that defied the laws of physics. Elves and dwarves had it better, but the bras in general were pretty ridiculous.

namedforthemoon wrote...
Yes, I'm still trying to figure out how Morrigan has any support at
all with just... Strings... Because she isn't wearing that funny bra
when she has her robes on, that's for sure.

Whenever Morrigan takes her clothes off, she puts on weight and a bra to preserve her modesty. Also, bikini tops clearly offer a bunch of support. It's not like a lot of exertion would cause the strings to come undone or anything.


... I think I'm overthinking this. Dear Bioware, can we have some better boob support because I apparently get OCD over the comfort of video game characters.

Oh, I don't want boob jiggle. PLEASE GOD, NO. I play a lot of JRPGs and it makes me sick how the boobs move. Like jello molds trapped in a wind tunnel. I just want some nice, natural looking shapes so that I'm not distracted by how wrong they are. And preferably something smaller than a D-cup. I kind of like smaller boobs (at least for elves and humans, dwarf ladies should be stacked) or at least wearing armor that appropriately suits the fact that females have extra stuff on their chest.

Ah, boob jiggle physics. I like Soul Calibur, but the boob jiggle in that game can reach nauseating proportions (oh god Taki stop jumping THINK  ABOUT  WHAT  YOU'RE DOING TO YOUR LIGAMENTS), so yeah. I'd settle for a lot of things over boob jiggle. (Even if it is kind of fun to say if you're mentally seven years old, like me.)

On the subject of armour, I think that massive and medium handled it pretty well. Heavy was kind of weird, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what. Light and mage armour was, uh... problematic, however. Light armour had cleavage (because there's nothing important there, am I right?) and the Dalish armour had exposed stomachs (no vital organs there!), and some of the mages' robes... Um. Yeah. I know that robes don't strictly need to be protective, but do the robes really need to come with a built-in wonderbra for that willpower bonus?

(Again, thinking about this too much. )

[Eudaemonium]

Ah okay, yeah the SA Leliana costume was pretty crazy. Though Saibh is right about Morri. I actually have a mod that makes her in-game robes like the one from the SA trailer - yay for *more* clothed Morrigan.

obnoxiousgas wrote...

On the subject of armour, I think that massive and medium handled it pretty well. Heavy was kind of weird, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what. Light and mage armour was, uh... problematic, however. Light armour had cleavage (because there's nothing important there, am I right?) and the Dalish armour had exposed stomachs (no vital organs there!), and some of the mages' robes... Um. Yeah. I know that robes don't strictly need to be protective, but do the robes really need to come with a built-in wonderbra for that willpower bonus?

(Again, thinking about this too much. )

The Heavy Armour on female characters did breasts *really* strangely, so that might be what you're thinking of. I have tmp's proportions fixes and something else that alters the Heavy Armour model to make it slightly less bizarre, but I largely play elves and it still looks a bit off on humans. I almost refuse to wear light armour on women, it just seems so... impractical and dangerous.

Modifié par Eudaemonium, 17 août 2010 - 06:31 .

[Daur]

Merced256 wrote...

yea i mean look how awesome heavy metal was..

THIS

[Bryy_Miller]

yukidama wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

suemaw wrote...

Maybe not a trailer, but it would be nice to have artwork with the default female Hawke the same day as the trailer. Do you guys at Bioware even have your default female Hawke done yet?

I can't comment on anything else in this thread (because I really don't have the relevant information on any of it!), but I can tell you that on the Cinematic Design team, at least, we're splitting our time about 50/50 between using the Male Hawke and the Female Hawke for iteration. This is to ensure that, in conversation, Female Hawke doesn't end up looking like Male Hawke but with a different model.

Sadly, the fem****s probably will find a way to make this a bad thing as well.
"Only 50%?"

Seriously? Comparing people who want to see females included and represented better in media to genocidal maniacs? Nice.

Not at all. You've never heard that term before? First off, I'm sorry if this offended you or anyone, really; I was not saying that females should not get equal screentime. In fact, earlier in this thread, I was interested at Daveo f Canada's idea that it was the original idea for the trailer.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 17 août 2010 - 06:34 .

[Chaos-fusion]

Eudaemonium wrote...

Ah okay, yeah the SA Leliana costume was pretty crazy. Though Saibh is right about Morri. I actually have a mod that makes her in-game robes like the one from the SA trailer - yay for *more* clothed Morrigan.

I am using this. I was truly shocked to find a mod that exposed less skin than the original. I was happy.

[pizoxuat]

JohnEpler wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

suemaw wrote...

Maybe not a trailer, but it would be nice to have artwork with the default female Hawke the same day as the trailer. Do you guys at Bioware even have your default female Hawke done yet?

I can't comment on anything else in this thread (because I really don't have the relevant information on any of it!), but I can tell you that on the Cinematic Design team, at least, we're splitting our time about 50/50 between using the Male Hawke and the Female Hawke for iteration. This is to ensure that, in conversation, Female Hawke doesn't end up looking like Male Hawke but with a different model.

Sadly, the fem****s probably will find a way to make this a bad thing as well.
"Only 50%?"

Honestly, I don't see a desire for more female-focused attention in development to be an unreasonable request. And this thread has been very reasonable and quite pleasant, really.

It's easy to forget that, for a lot of the population, there's a sizable portion of entertainment that doesn't really take them into consideration. And attempting to ensure that this not be the case is not what I'd classify as something I take umbrage at. If anything, it's good to be reminded that there are all sorts of people who enjoy the work you put out, and who would enjoy it more if you took a little extra time to make it more appealing to them.

Thank you very much for taking the time out of your day to let us know that you've heard us, and for doing so in such a kind and thoughtful way. 

[payroo]

Thanks, Mr. Epler!



anyway, on the important subject of bewbies...

I still dream of a slider for breast size in chargen, so I can one day make all my f!PCs ironing boards (though I'm sure there would be plenty of fun to be had with the opposite end of the slider).

[tom2504]

I don't want to seem too chauvinistic but it's really hard to pull off a badass female character for a game, it's doable - sure, but male characters simply give off a more epic feeling that adds to the anticipation of the game.

It's like taking out Leonidas in 300 and adding Boudica instead.

Plus the obvious reasion - most gamers are male

[Eudaemonium]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Eudaemonium wrote...

Ah okay, yeah the SA Leliana costume was pretty crazy. Though Saibh is right about Morri. I actually have a mod that makes her in-game robes like the one from the SA trailer - yay for *more* clothed Morrigan.

I am using this. I was truly shocked to find a mod that exposed less skin than the original. I was happy.

It is a light in the darkness. I also like how it manages to stay sexy and appealing without being the highly-unrealistic and oversexualised robe of the vanilla game. It's still Morrigan. The added bustier/corset-thing also gives her some much-needed support.

[Freakaz0idx]

Women are a minority in gaming, I don't know why a lot of people on these forums want to push for a female lead character, it's the same deal with a homosexual lead. It's safe to assume the target audience or the majority of people who will play DA2 are straight males, hence a badass male lead character to cater to the majority of the game's audience, they want to sell the game. In my opinion, it's selfish to be upset that a main character isn't female/gay/etc. They want their game to be succesful, even having a female option available is a huge honor.

Not trying to disrespect anyone btw.

Modifié par Freakaz0idx, 17 août 2010 - 06:40 .

[AlexXIV]

tom2504 wrote...

I don't want to seem too chauvinistic but it's really hard to pull off a badass female character for a game, it's doable - sure, but male characters simply give off a more epic feeling that adds to the anticipation of the game.

It's like taking out Leonidas in 300 and adding Boudica instead.

Plus the obvious reasion - most gamers are male

I am pretty sure it IS possible to make a badass female hero for a trailer or game. Just look at Jack from ME2 as an example. Just looks kinda silly if she actually looks like a fashion model rather than a warrior.

[jlb524]

tom2504 wrote...

I don't want to seem too chauvinistic but it's really hard to pull off a badass female character for a game, it's doable - sure, but male characters simply give off a more epic feeling that adds to the anticipation of the game.

I don't know...that trailer didn't feel very 'epic' to me.

[mellifera]

payroo wrote...

Thanks, Mr. Epler!

anyway, on the important subject of bewbies...
I still dream of a slider for breast size in chargen, so I can one day make all my f!PCs ironing boards (though I'm sure there would be plenty of fun to be had with the opposite end of the slider).

Haha, I used the nude mods briefly and all my characters had the smallest cup size I could give them. The dudes stayed vanilla because of an unfortunate incident with dead Calian being way too happy to see me :crying::crying: I wouldn't have even used the nude mods if the underwear wasn't so hideous...

[iTomes]

tom2504 wrote...

I don't want to seem too chauvinistic but it's really hard to pull off a badass female character for a game, it's doable - sure, but male characters simply give off a more epic feeling that adds to the anticipation of the game.

It's like taking out Leonidas in 300 and adding Boudica instead.

Plus the obvious reasion - most gamers are male

pretty much something around these lines... its possible to make females really badass, there are enough movies showing it, but still..... there is a little more effort with it i guess (identification-wise).... and besides: trailers are expensive so you want them to appeal to the largest possible audience... i think that the femHawke will be seen, but surely not in a cinematic....

[Eudaemonium]

tom2504 wrote...

It's like taking out Leonidas in 300 and adding Boudica instead.

I actually think this would be equally epic and amazing, but with a poignancy and tragedy to it. I don't really think female characters are *less* epic and badass, its just that female leads often have different associations which can lead to them being viewed this way.

EDIT: There is also the issue that 'badass female lead' is usually just a badass male lead with breasts. Which is why I'm so glad that Mr. Epler has stated they're spending equal time on crafting teh game for Fem!Hawke. Its substantially less fun to play a female character if, for all intents and purposes, you're playing a male character with a female body morph and a female voice.

Modifié par Eudaemonium, 17 août 2010 - 06:44 .

[WilliamShatner]

Freakaz0idx wrote...

Women are a minority in gaming, I don't know why a lot of people on these forums want to push for a female lead character, it's the same deal with a homosexual lead. It's safe to assume the target audience or the majority of people who will play DA2 are straight males, hence a badass male lead character to cater to the majority of the game's audience, they want to sell the game. In my opinion, it's selfish to be upset that a main character isn't female/gay/etc. They want their game to be succesful, even having a female option available is a huge honor.

Not trying to disrespect anyone btw.

I think you will find that the split is a lot closer than you think.

Most PC gamers are female.  Most DS owners are female.

[Dave of Canada]

yukidama wrote...

payroo wrote...

Thanks, Mr. Epler!

anyway, on the important subject of bewbies...
I still dream of a slider for breast size in chargen, so I can one day make all my f!PCs ironing boards (though I'm sure there would be plenty of fun to be had with the opposite end of the slider).

Haha, I used the nude mods briefly and all my characters had the smallest cup size I could give them. The dudes stayed vanilla because of an unfortunate incident with dead Calian being way too happy to see me :crying::crying: I wouldn't have even used the nude mods if the underwear wasn't so hideous...

WAT.

[namedforthemoon]

tom2504 wrote...

I don't want to seem too chauvinistic but it's really hard to pull off a badass female character for a game, it's doable - sure, but male characters simply give off a more epic feeling that adds to the anticipation of the game.

It's like taking out Leonidas in 300 and adding Boudica instead.

Plus the obvious reasion - most gamers are male

In the Sacred Ashes trailer, Lelianna and Morrigan kicked way more butt than the male character or the other character (was it Sten?) that was featured. It was Lelianna and Morrigan that made that trailer rock.

[mellifera]

tom2504 wrote...

I don't want to seem too chauvinistic but it's really hard to pull off a badass female character for a game, it's doable - sure, but male characters simply give off a more epic feeling that adds to the anticipation of the game.

It's like taking out Leonidas in 300 and adding Boudica instead.

Plus the obvious reasion - most gamers are male

If it weren't for the preponderance of female characters that are weak, vapid eyecandy and/or used as plot devices to further the male protagonist's story, then a badass female main character wouldn't be such a hard sell.

We just need to start changing that image and maybe one day it won't seem like such a stretch. Females can be just as "epic" as males, perhaps even moreso because they're doing amazing things in a place where they're not seen as equal to or as able/cool as men.

[yhibiki]

tom2504 wrote...

I don't want to seem too chauvinistic..

I'm going to stop you right there: if you need to start your comment with a line like that, you know that the rest of it is, in fact, chauvinistic.

Badass females: Sigourney Weaver in Aliens, Sarah Connor in the Terminator series, Fiona in Burn Notice, Jade in Beyond Good and Evil, Samus in Metroid, even Bayonetta, fanservice design aside, is extremely badass. Just to name a few. (I have more! If you need a longer list!)

Even if a majority of gamers who play RPGs are male, that doesn't change the fact that a female main character is not lesser, nor does it erase the female gamers who DO play RPGs (and I would dare say more female gamers play RPGs than FPS, though I have no hard statistics on this). If women can manage to play games with male leads, I'm sure men can manage to play female leads.

Which is besides the point though, because DA2 allows you to choose your gender. Showcasing that option in a trailer doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Modifié par yhibiki, 17 août 2010 - 06:46 .

[Dave of Canada]

namedforthemoon wrote...

In the Sacred Ashes trailer, Lelianna and Morrigan kicked way more butt than the male character or the other character (was it Sten?) that was featured. It was Lelianna and Morrigan that made that trailer rock.

.. but Sten had a goatee.

[Eudaemonium]

Dave of Canada wrote...

yukidama wrote...

payroo wrote...

Thanks, Mr. Epler!

anyway, on the important subject of bewbies...
I still dream of a slider for breast size in chargen, so I can one day make all my f!PCs ironing boards (though I'm sure there would be plenty of fun to be had with the opposite end of the slider).

Haha, I used the nude mods briefly and all my characters had the smallest cup size I could give them. The dudes stayed vanilla because of an unfortunate incident with dead Calian being way too happy to see me :crying::crying: I wouldn't have even used the nude mods if the underwear wasn't so hideous...

WAT.

Happy Cailan is Happy. Seriously though, this can kill immersion. But yukidama, there is a mod that makes the male models... un-happy. Admittedly it makes the more explicit sex scene mods rather... amusing (disfunction much?). I think there's even one you can configure with DAModder that only makes them happy in certain situations.

Dave of Canada wrote...

namedforthemoon wrote...

In the Sacred Ashes trailer, Lelianna and Morrigan kicked way more butt than the male character or the other character (was it Sten?) that was featured. It was Lelianna and Morrigan that made that trailer rock.

.. but Sten had a goatee.

He also looked like a completely different character. I have at times modded Sten to have a goatee, though. Even though I am uncertain whether qunari can even grow facial hair.

Modifié par Eudaemonium, 17 août 2010 - 06:50 .

[Blessed Silence]

suemaw wrote...

Maybe not a trailer, but it would be nice to have artwork with the default female Hawke the same day as the trailer. Do you guys at Bioware even have your default female Hawke done yet?

This reminds me on reading about Crackdown 2 where there was supposed to be female characters, but due to time and resource constraints, they all were removed ... don't do that BioWare.

As for the OP, as a female gamer I personally don't care either way.  Unlike my sister who will only place games if there is a female lead (like FF13) or a trailer shows you can be female character lead.  I am very used to playing games as male characters or ungendered ones (PONG!).  I grew up on DnD games (Eye of the Beholder anyone?) where it was a given you could be female so I never worried.

Of course with God of War out and sooo many war based games (WW2 is done to death people!) the air is pretty thick with testosterone I agree.

So though I would like it would be neat to make a female orientated trailer or gameplay footage (though DA:O didn't have that, did they? ... well if you could the origins snippets) it won't keep me from buying the game.

....

And defauly male!Hawke is HAWT

[obnoxiousgas]

tom2504 wrote...

I don't want to seem too chauvinistic but it's really hard to pull off a badass female character for a game, it's doable - sure, but male characters simply give off a more epic feeling that adds to the anticipation of the game.

It's like taking out Leonidas in 300 and adding Boudica instead.

Plus the obvious reasion - most gamers are male

I... why would you use the comparison of Leonidas with possibly one of the most badass women to ever live? It doesn't really help your point.

And honestly, the idea that women are somehow innately less epic than men is chauvinistic (although of course I'm not saying that you yourself are a chauvinist), and the fact that this gets perpetuated by the media is a bad thing. Just because it happens doesn't mean it's fair, and it certainly doesn't mean it should carry on this way. People don't always understand that small changes can have a huge impact, and while using a female character in a trailer might not seem like a big deal for you it can make a big difference to the many female gamers out there.

[namedforthemoon]

yhibiki wrote...

tom2504 wrote...

I don't want to seem too chauvinistic..

I'm going to stop you right there: if you need to start your comment with a line like that, you know that the rest of it is, in fact, chauvinistic.

Badass females: Sigourney Weaver in Aliens, Sarah Connor in the Terminator series, Fiona in Burn Notice, Jade in Beyond Good and Evil, Samus in Metroid, even Bayonetta, fanservice design aside, is extremely badass. Just to name a few. (I have more! If you need a longer list!)

Even if a majority of gamers who play RPGs are male, that doesn't change the fact that a female main character is not lesser, nor does it erase the female gamers who DO play RPGs (and I would dare say more female gamers play RPGs than FPS, though I have no hard statistics on this). If women can manage to play games with male leads, I'm sure men can manage to play female leads.

Which is besides the point though, because DA2 allows you to choose your gender. Showcasing that option in a trailer doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Absolutely this. Very excellent points.