425 réponses à ce sujet

[Saibh]

yhibiki wrote...

tom2504 wrote...

I don't want to seem too chauvinistic..

I'm going to stop you right there: if you need to start your comment with a line like that, you know that the rest of it is, in fact, chauvinistic.

Badass females: Sigourney Weaver in Aliens, Sarah Connor in the Terminator series, Fiona in Burn Notice, Jade in Beyond Good and Evil, Samus in Metroid, even Bayonetta, fanservice design aside, is extremely badass. Just to name a few. (I have more! If you need a longer list!)

Even if a majority of gamers who play RPGs are male, that doesn't change the fact that a female main character is not lesser, nor does it erase the female gamers who DO play RPGs (and I would dare say more female gamers play RPGs than FPS, though I have no hard statistics on this). If women can manage to play games with male leads, I'm sure men can manage to play female leads.

Which is besides the point though, because DA2 allows you to choose your gender. Showcasing that option in a trailer doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

That giraffe doesn't count. >[ Everything she does is too sexualized--I can't consider her "badass", because she's only doing what she does for fanservice. I mean, her attacks consist of taking off her clothes.

In any case, it is most certainly possible to present female badasses. The trick is to not make them like Bayonetta or Rubi the megab*tch from Wet.

[Freakaz0idx]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Freakaz0idx wrote...

Women are a minority in gaming, I don't know why a lot of people on these forums want to push for a female lead character, it's the same deal with a homosexual lead. It's safe to assume the target audience or the majority of people who will play DA2 are straight males, hence a badass male lead character to cater to the majority of the game's audience, they want to sell the game. In my opinion, it's selfish to be upset that a main character isn't female/gay/etc. They want their game to be succesful, even having a female option available is a huge honor.

Not trying to disrespect anyone btw.

I think you will find that the split is a lot closer than you think.

Most PC gamers are female.  Most DS owners are female.

This game is for PC, 360, PS3. Wouldn't you agree the Male Female ratio is lopsided? It doesn't make sense for a lead chick to sell an action/rpg game, it's very hit or miss.

Modifié par Freakaz0idx, 17 août 2010 - 06:50 .

[Blessed Silence]

Roth wrote...

Wow, the whining is really coming from all directions...
Seriously, if Hawke was a woman half of that trailer would show us sexy closeups of her bosom and ass. Just so we get the point that she is sexier than Lara Croft and Samus Aran in a latex suit. And this tells us who play games...
If the main protagonist is a woman she is hot and scarcely clad to attract the attention of the nerds. I loved Beyond Good and Evil and in that game the main prot is female and well... plain. I dare say it is a forgotten and underrated game, and that is quite sad. The woman wasn't a bomb and that showed in the number of sales. Still, IMO it's one of the better games of the last decade.
That's why I don't like games with female leads. Because they always turn out sexistic to please the hormonal gamerkids. And I don't want DA to turn into a game they can w*** to. Morrigan was enough.

Okay .. this is a blantatly sexist post here.

So you think men can be so degrading that they have to show T&A shots all the time?  Well in that case, I need a new CGI trailer of male!Hawke shirtless and a few shots of his package ....

Thank you for your ignorance and lumping all males into one area ....

[Thiefy]

Lol love how there are a ton of guys coming into this thread now calling females selfish for just wanting some concept art and his res models made for them.

God, you mean it's not enough that 98% of the gaming world (PC and Consoles) already cater to your every whim and wet dream, that 2% is clearly better used at pleasing people who will never be satisfied as opposed to trying to tap into a relatively untapped niche in the gaming world. How greedy we women are.

Next you know us women-folk will actually dare to come out of the kitchen and vote for politicians!

Edit - not to say that all guys posting here are like that, and if it comes off like that i apologize. but there are clearly posts here meant to do nothing but rabbly rouse even though we have had a Dev come in a clearly say that it's perfectly legit for women to want to be represented equally and that we were nice in our way of asking (thereby disproving everything they type, anyway).

Modifié par Thief-of-Hearts, 17 août 2010 - 06:53 .

[Blessed Silence]

Eudaemonium wrote...

LupusYondergirl wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I'm going to play the game, and I thought the trailer looked awesome (for something that will have no bearing on actual game play I REMEMBER YOU SACRED ASHES YOU WON'T FOOL ME AGAIN).

I'd actually played and completed DAO before seeign *any* of the trailer material. When I did it was like, 'What game is this? Wait, it's Dragon Age!!!?'

Funny you mentioned that because I didn't find the trailers until after I played alot of the game.  Same with the one for ME2.  I have a feeling if I saw ME2's CGI stuff before I bought the game I might have waited a bit longer or lost interest even though I played and beat ME1.

[Blessed Silence]

yukidama wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

suemaw wrote...

Maybe not a trailer, but it would be nice to have artwork with the default female Hawke the same day as the trailer. Do you guys at Bioware even have your default female Hawke done yet?

I can't comment on anything else in this thread (because I really don't have the relevant information on any of it!), but I can tell you that on the Cinematic Design team, at least, we're splitting our time about 50/50 between using the Male Hawke and the Female Hawke for iteration. This is to ensure that, in conversation, Female Hawke doesn't end up looking like Male Hawke but with a different model.

Sounds great. I hope she has the same style armor as Male Hawke, please no stupid low cut robes/armor and boobs flapping in the wind. Some of us ladies like our attractiveness to depend on more than our jibblies showing

Indeed.  And being a female that isn't very attractive (and I'm quite conservative in clothing) a woman can still be pretty and kick rear in full plate armor (meaning covering everything).

[WilliamShatner]

Freakaz0idx wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Freakaz0idx wrote...

Women are a minority in gaming, I don't know why a lot of people on these forums want to push for a female lead character, it's the same deal with a homosexual lead. It's safe to assume the target audience or the majority of people who will play DA2 are straight males, hence a badass male lead character to cater to the majority of the game's audience, they want to sell the game. In my opinion, it's selfish to be upset that a main character isn't female/gay/etc. They want their game to be succesful, even having a female option available is a huge honor.

Not trying to disrespect anyone btw.

I think you will find that the split is a lot closer than you think.

Most PC gamers are female.  Most DS owners are female.

This game is for PC, 360, PS3. Wouldn't you agree the Male Female ratio is lopsided? It doesn't make sense for a lead chick to sell an action/rpg game, it's very hit or miss.

Lead chick? Jesus get out of the 1960s.

I don't think anyone is arguing for the female PC to be the LEAD, just given EQUAL share with the male.  This is about equality not superiority.

[Saibh]

Freakaz0idx wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Freakaz0idx wrote...

Women are a minority in gaming, I don't know why a lot of people on these forums want to push for a female lead character, it's the same deal with a homosexual lead. It's safe to assume the target audience or the majority of people who will play DA2 are straight males, hence a badass male lead character to cater to the majority of the game's audience, they want to sell the game. In my opinion, it's selfish to be upset that a main character isn't female/gay/etc. They want their game to be succesful, even having a female option available is a huge honor.

Not trying to disrespect anyone btw.

I think you will find that the split is a lot closer than you think.

Most PC gamers are female.  Most DS owners are female.

This game is for PC, 360, PS3. Wouldn't you agree the Male Female ratio is lopsided? It doesn't make sense for a lead chick to sell an action/rpg game, it's very hit or miss.

Here you go.

"Forty percent of all game players are women. In fact, women over the age of 18 represent a significantly greater portion of the game-playing population (33 percent) than boys age 17 or younger (18 percent)."

Modifié par Saibh, 17 août 2010 - 06:54 .

[payroo]

yukidama wrote...

payroo wrote...

Thanks, Mr. Epler!

anyway, on the important subject of bewbies...
I still dream of a slider for breast size in chargen, so I can one day make all my f!PCs ironing boards (though I'm sure there would be plenty of fun to be had with the opposite end of the slider).

Haha, I used the nude mods briefly and all my characters had the smallest cup size I could give them. The dudes stayed vanilla because of an unfortunate incident with dead Calian being way too happy to see me :crying::crying: I wouldn't have even used the nude mods if the underwear wasn't so hideous...

Oh God...  Well, you do know what they say about dead men who have been hanged... (luckily I installed that mod after I did RtO)

and back on topic, I actually wish they could make the trailers (for future games, at least) more generic. Like a hood/cloak deal for the CGI trailers to avoid depicting gender... but likely that would be a pain to animate. In the meantime, I do cheer for more fem!

I think the key to making women seem 'bad-ass' is not to oversexualize them or make them into men-with-boobs, but just to show that they are very good at what they are doing.

[Bryy_Miller]

yukidama wrote...

tom2504 wrote...

I don't want to seem too chauvinistic but it's really hard to pull off a badass female character for a game, it's doable - sure, but male characters simply give off a more epic feeling that adds to the anticipation of the game.

It's like taking out Leonidas in 300 and adding Boudica instead.

Plus the obvious reasion - most gamers are male

If it weren't for the preponderance of female characters that are weak, vapid eyecandy and/or used as plot devices to further the male protagonist's story, then a badass female main character wouldn't be such a hard sell.

We just need to start changing that image and maybe one day it won't seem like such a stretch. Females can be just as "epic" as males, perhaps even moreso because they're doing amazing things in a place where they're not seen as equal to or as able/cool as men.

As a guy who writes females as his leads in a good 90% of his work, this is a constant issue. I see so much media where the female lead or minor is given almost too much to do in an effort to make it seem like she actually is important. The female lead, Janet, on Persons Unknown is so great because she doesn't have to get physical or "epic" in order to hold her ground. And then, nine episode in, when she DOES hit someone? It is epic, because it adds a completely new side to this already strong woman. But then you get Firefly, where the women are only SO strong, and the rest of their character is masked by an over-abundance of "isn't sexism funny" jokes. 

We as a society have almost made it impossible to write a strong female, simply because "strong female" has become a buzzword. A talking point. That's why I like RPGs, that's why I like writing. Nobody defines the character but you.

</rant>

[obnoxiousgas]

Hurrah, I misposted!

Modifié par obnoxiousgas, 17 août 2010 - 06:55 .

[Blessed Silence]

JohnEpler wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

suemaw wrote...

Maybe not a trailer, but it would be nice to have artwork with the default female Hawke the same day as the trailer. Do you guys at Bioware even have your default female Hawke done yet?

I can't comment on anything else in this thread (because I really don't have the relevant information on any of it!), but I can tell you that on the Cinematic Design team, at least, we're splitting our time about 50/50 between using the Male Hawke and the Female Hawke for iteration. This is to ensure that, in conversation, Female Hawke doesn't end up looking like Male Hawke but with a different model.

Sadly, the fem****s probably will find a way to make this a bad thing as well.
"Only 50%?"

Honestly, I don't see a desire for more female-focused attention in development to be an unreasonable request. And this thread has been very reasonable and quite pleasant, really.

It's easy to forget that, for a lot of the population, there's a sizable portion of entertainment that doesn't really take them into consideration. And attempting to ensure that this not be the case is not what I'd classify as something I take umbrage at. If anything, it's good to be reminded that there are all sorts of people who enjoy the work you put out, and who would enjoy it more if you took a little extra time to make it more appealing to them.

Sooo ... care for some of my homemade cookies?   Lasagna?  Chicken?  I make a mean stir fry!

*tries to distract so she can sneak into Mr. Epler's office*

[Blessed Silence]

yukidama wrote...

Oh, I don't want boob jiggle. PLEASE GOD, NO. I play a lot of JRPGs and it makes me sick how the boobs move. Like jello molds trapped in a wind tunnel. I just want some nice, natural looking shapes so that I'm not distracted by how wrong they are. And preferably something smaller than a D-cup. I kind of like smaller boobs (at least for elves and humans, dwarf ladies should be stacked) or at least wearing armor that appropriately suits the fact that females have extra stuff on their chest.

I just spit all over my keyboard on that .... thank you! 

[Blessed Silence]

Freakaz0idx wrote...

Women are a minority in gaming, I don't know why a lot of people on these forums want to push for a female lead character, it's the same deal with a homosexual lead. It's safe to assume the target audience or the majority of people who will play DA2 are straight males, hence a badass male lead character to cater to the majority of the game's audience, they want to sell the game. In my opinion, it's selfish to be upset that a main character isn't female/gay/etc. They want their game to be succesful, even having a female option available is a huge honor.

Not trying to disrespect anyone btw.

Oddly enough female gamers are climbing pretty rapidly I think especially witht he Wii coming out.  And don't think females don't play war games ... my sister and I enjoy picking up a gun and blowing a guy's head off just as much as any male.

And why is it selfish to have a chance to be heard and seen?  BTW, having a female option as you call it has gone back quite a way so don't think it is new.  Heck you could be female in pnp DnD games.  Yeesh.

[ReinaHW]

I agree, let's see the female Hawke get a chance to shine in a new trailer. And for it to be known that the player can choose from female or male for their main character, it's such a minor thing to do which can mean a lot. After decades of having to put up with the whole 'Man the best, man rule all' nonsense and female characters either being a target, a damsel in distress, a pleasure toy for men or all three, it would be nice if more developers, not just Bioware, started being more open minded as a whole, had more female leads in games and show cased that the player can choose from a female or male lead.

Instead of the usual generic male lead who is usually about as exciting as a bill in the post.



Already got a series of images, with voice, in mind for show casing female Hawke - Blood chipping from her armour, a sword in her hand and it's got lightening on the blade. She looks wounded, but she isn't, she turns to face a mass of enemies and speaks: "I didn't come all this way to do nothing, it's still midday" And her and her companions charge into the oncoming army.

And a narration from Felmeth - "Courage can be in any heart, should that heart have the strength to stand"



Gaming isn't a male only thing, it never has been. Both genders game, it's just that many female gamers don't get noticed due to the narrow minded views of those who want to easily define everything.

Gaming is something that both genders, regardless of race and age can do, if they wish to.



Men get more than enough ego stroking by the media as it is, it's boring and makes humanity look like it still hasn't grown up to the concept of equal consideration.

[SirShreK]

JohnEpler wrote...

Apollo Starflare wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

suemaw wrote...

Maybe not a trailer, but it would be nice to have artwork with the default female Hawke the same day as the trailer. Do you guys at Bioware even have your default female Hawke done yet?

I can't comment on anything else in this thread (because I really don't have the relevant information on any of it!), but I can tell you that on the Cinematic Design team, at least, we're splitting our time about 50/50 between using the Male Hawke and the Female Hawke for iteration. This is to ensure that, in conversation, Female Hawke doesn't end up looking like Male Hawke but with a different model.

That's great to hear John. Hope they let you show off your work in one of the trailers before launch. :happy:

Ha! I wish. Unfortunately, the stuff I'm working on that I'd call 'trailer-worthy' is also 'filled to the brim with spoilers galore'.

Does that mean that the fem hawke IS flemeth?

Modifié par SirShreK, 17 août 2010 - 07:12 .

[Bryy_Miller]

SirShreK wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Apollo Starflare wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

suemaw wrote...

Maybe not a trailer, but it would be nice to have artwork with the default female Hawke the same day as the trailer. Do you guys at Bioware even have your default female Hawke done yet?

I can't comment on anything else in this thread (because I really don't have the relevant information on any of it!), but I can tell you that on the Cinematic Design team, at least, we're splitting our time about 50/50 between using the Male Hawke and the Female Hawke for iteration. This is to ensure that, in conversation, Female Hawke doesn't end up looking like Male Hawke but with a different model.

That's great to hear John. Hope they let you show off your work in one of the trailers before launch. :happy:

Ha! I wish. Unfortunately, the stuff I'm working on that I'd call 'trailer-worthy' is also 'filled to the brim with spoilers galore'.

Does that mean that the fem hawke IS flemeth?

That would really not be in the best interest of a customizable character.

[syllogi]

Agreed very much with the OP. We don't need a fancy CGI trailer, just screenshots, ingame footage showing off Lady Hawke's animations, and to hear her voice, and you would not only have the female fans you already have hooked interested, but you would also potentially be bringing in even more gamers -- gamers who are brand loyal, more likely to be fanatical, and are often in charge of leisure spending in the household -- women.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

OK, I'm not supposed ot p[ost this, but I have found a picture of Lady hawke! Enjoy!

[obnoxiousgas]

Shinian2 wrote...

OK, I'm not supposed ot p[ost this, but I have found a picture of Lady hawke! Enjoy!
[bearded Salma Hayek]

The majesty of Hawke's beard does not discriminate based on sex! Clearly this is a sign that promo stuff for DA2 should follow suit.

[Tirigon]

namedforthemoon wrote...

Dear Bioware,

I am a female gamer, and I love the fact that I can play a female character in your games. I especially love Dragon Age and the Dragon Age franchise.

I know you already have a male Hawke set up for your Dragon Age 2 trailers, but in the future, would you please consider showcasing a female hero for future Dragon Age games? I would appreciate it so much, and I'm sure other female nerds such as myself who love your games would be just as thrilled and appreciative.

Thank you!

Chanda E.



(Feel free to chime in, other femme la fatales!)

Let me say that, as a male gamer, I totally support this. It sucks only to see badass heroes. I much prefer to see a sexy heroine.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

obnoxiousgas wrote...

Shinian2 wrote...

OK, I'm not supposed ot p[ost this, but I have found a picture of Lady hawke! Enjoy!
[bearded Salma Hayek]

The majesty of Hawke's beard does not discriminate based on sex! Clearly this is a sign that promo stuff for DA2 should follow suit.

I agree! lol

[Tirigon]

Shinian2 wrote...

OK, I'm not supposed ot p[ost this, but I have found a picture of Lady hawke! Enjoy!

Awesome. Just sucks she is not a dwarf.

BUT THIS, OH FELLOW FORUMITES AND ESPECIALLY BIOWARE DEVS, IS HOW A FEMALE DWARF SHOULD LOOK!!!!!

[In Exile]

Dave of Canada wrote...

But "men" could also be referencing the "race of men", meaning humans in general instead of "guy".

Just because it's an anacronistic usage does not make it any less sexist.

[zahra]

JohnEpler wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

suemaw wrote...

Maybe not a trailer, but it would be nice to have artwork with the default female Hawke the same day as the trailer. Do you guys at Bioware even have your default female Hawke done yet?

I can't comment on anything else in this thread (because I really don't have the relevant information on any of it!), but I can tell you that on the Cinematic Design team, at least, we're splitting our time about 50/50 between using the Male Hawke and the Female Hawke for iteration. This is to ensure that, in conversation, Female Hawke doesn't end up looking like Male Hawke but with a different model.

Sadly, the fem****s probably will find a way to make this a bad thing as well.
"Only 50%?"

Honestly, I don't see a desire for more female-focused attention in development to be an unreasonable request. And this thread has been very reasonable and quite pleasant, really.

It's easy to forget that, for a lot of the population, there's a sizable portion of entertainment that doesn't really take them into consideration. And attempting to ensure that this not be the case is not what I'd classify as something I take umbrage at. If anything, it's good to be reminded that there are all sorts of people who enjoy the work you put out, and who would enjoy it more if you took a little extra time to make it more appealing to them.

*fan-girling hard for John Epler rn*