425 réponses à ce sujet

[Saibh]

Mehow_pwn wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Mehow_pwn wrote...

Because then dragon age could end up as twilight... and we all know how crapy **** that was. Where the vampires didnt drink blood but shined like a diamond in the sun..

What are you talking about? 

Also, I'm no fan, but...yeah, the sparklepires drink blood. That's pretty much the only vampire thing they do.

Im talking about this wave of feministic women into gaming thinking they can turn dragon age into twilight...

Not that women are a bad thing.. ever! ,but in this subject.. maybe.. becaue mostly what women think is cool is not the same.. as men least I think(I am probobly worng..)

...

Dude.

I...

Please. Leave. Before...

...

Modifié par Saibh, 17 août 2010 - 09:50 .

[Saibh]

WilliamShatner wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Catt128 wrote...

_purifico_ wrote...

I am female and I don't give a **** whether the main character of Dragon Age or any other game is male or female. I also don't care whether the gender of choice for marketing purposes in games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age (i.e. games where the protagonist can be both male and female) is male as long as the game itself is good.
Come to think of it - I'd prefer to drool all over sexy male Hawke swinging his polearm, casting forbidden magicks and all that jazz, rather than stare blandly at some chick.

Also, games are for fun, not for your stupid feminist crap.

I somewhat agree with this... 

I would argue, though, that just because you don't want more representation in games, that doesn't mean it should be verboten for others to want it. Obviously, the first priority of any game should be making it an enjoyable game to play. But what's the harm in asking (in a polite way, I will emphasize once more!) the development team to take your concerns into consideration?

No one's asking for a game and story based around the ideals of second-wave feminism, but merely that we as developers acknowledge that there are more than one audience interested in our product. And I honestly don't see that as unreasonable in the slightest.

You are far too nice and in-touch with the fans to be a developer.  

Are you someone from the community who managed to hack a developer's account? 

Yeah, because that's what we would do if we got ahold of a developers account...you give us much credit.

[heretica]

JohnEpler wrote...

Catt128 wrote...

_purifico_ wrote...

I am female and I don't give a **** whether the main character of Dragon Age or any other game is male or female. I also don't care whether the gender of choice for marketing purposes in games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age (i.e. games where the protagonist can be both male and female) is male as long as the game itself is good.
Come to think of it - I'd prefer to drool all over sexy male Hawke swinging his polearm, casting forbidden magicks and all that jazz, rather than stare blandly at some chick.

Also, games are for fun, not for your stupid feminist crap.

I somewhat agree with this... 

I would argue, though, that just because you don't want more representation in games, that doesn't mean it should be verboten for others to want it. Obviously, the first priority of any game should be making it an enjoyable game to play. But what's the harm in asking (in a polite way, I will emphasize once more!) the development team to take your concerns into consideration?

No one's asking for a game and story based around the ideals of second-wave feminism, but merely that we as developers acknowledge that there are more than one audience interested in our product. And I honestly don't see that as unreasonable in the slightest.

I wrote "somewhat" in there. It's not that I agree 100% with what she says but I'm too lazy to write a five pages essay on my views about videogames and feminism.

So please don't pull the ".. Just because you don't want more reprentation in games, that doesn't mean it should be verboten for others to want it." card on me because I find it unfair.

[Mehow_pwn]

Saibh wrote...

Mehow_pwn wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Mehow_pwn wrote...

Because then dragon age could end up as twilight... and we all know how crapy **** that was. Where the vampires didnt drink blood but shined like a diamond in the sun..

What are you talking about? 

Also, I'm no fan, but...yeah, the sparklepires drink blood. That's pretty much the only vampire thing they do.

Im talking about this wave of feministic women into gaming thinking they can turn dragon age into twilight...

Not that women are a bad thing.. ever! ,but in this subject.. maybe.. becaue mostly what women think is cool is not the same.. as men least I think(I am probobly worng..)

...

Dude.

I...

Please. Leave. Before...

...

I dont understand........

[addiction21]

Sorry for the rant. Being a white male I have been on the wrong side of political correctness and affirmitive action far too many times. Only made worse by living in the U.S.A. and coming of age in the 1990's.

No malice is ment but I think people need to readjust themselves. Why is it such a big deal that a cgi trailer developed by a seperate company that has no impolication of how the game plays matter? When it is allready confirmed that you will have a Female Hawkes and Devid Gaider has allready said there is as much effort into making that a unique experiance as the male side?



If the femlae side was cut entirley FROM THE GAME then I could understand.

[John Epler]

Catt128 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Catt128 wrote...

_purifico_ wrote...

I am female and I don't give a **** whether the main character of Dragon Age or any other game is male or female. I also don't care whether the gender of choice for marketing purposes in games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age (i.e. games where the protagonist can be both male and female) is male as long as the game itself is good.
Come to think of it - I'd prefer to drool all over sexy male Hawke swinging his polearm, casting forbidden magicks and all that jazz, rather than stare blandly at some chick.

Also, games are for fun, not for your stupid feminist crap.

I somewhat agree with this... 

I would argue, though, that just because you don't want more representation in games, that doesn't mean it should be verboten for others to want it. Obviously, the first priority of any game should be making it an enjoyable game to play. But what's the harm in asking (in a polite way, I will emphasize once more!) the development team to take your concerns into consideration?

No one's asking for a game and story based around the ideals of second-wave feminism, but merely that we as developers acknowledge that there are more than one audience interested in our product. And I honestly don't see that as unreasonable in the slightest.

I wrote "somewhat" in there. It's not that I agree 100% with what she says but I'm too lazy to write a five pages essay on my views about videogames and feminism.

So please don't pull the ".. Just because you don't want more reprentation in games, that doesn't mean it should be verboten for others to want it." card on me because I find it unfair.

I apologize, I wasn't really responding to you - yours was just the most recent post in the chain.

[mordy_was_here]

Somewhat on topic, I've watched that trailer about ten times now, and I can't help but think how interesting it would have been to have seen FemHawke face off against that brute. Do want.

[Saibh]

Mehow_pwn wrote...

I dont understand........

http://t1.gstatic.co...qGB4qUj_7fIR1Q=

(get it? )

I'm sorry, but assuming that all women like Twilight, that all women who would like to hear a voice clip of female Hawke want their games to be more sparklepire is just plain sexist.

Not one. Single. Person. Has requested as much.

Modifié par Saibh, 17 août 2010 - 09:52 .

[rexil]

WilliamShatner wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Catt128 wrote...

_purifico_ wrote...

I am female and I don't give a **** whether the main character of Dragon Age or any other game is male or female. I also don't care whether the gender of choice for marketing purposes in games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age (i.e. games where the protagonist can be both male and female) is male as long as the game itself is good.
Come to think of it - I'd prefer to drool all over sexy male Hawke swinging his polearm, casting forbidden magicks and all that jazz, rather than stare blandly at some chick.

Also, games are for fun, not for your stupid feminist crap.

I somewhat agree with this... 

I would argue, though, that just because you don't want more representation in games, that doesn't mean it should be verboten for others to want it. Obviously, the first priority of any game should be making it an enjoyable game to play. But what's the harm in asking (in a polite way, I will emphasize once more!) the development team to take your concerns into consideration?

No one's asking for a game and story based around the ideals of second-wave feminism, but merely that we as developers acknowledge that there are more than one audience interested in our product. And I honestly don't see that as unreasonable in the slightest.

You are far too nice and in-touch with the fans to be a developer.  

Are you someone from the community who managed to hack a developer's account? 

It's because Mike brought his whip with him to Germany.
Now the other devs are free to come pay a visit to the fellows forumites.

[Mehow_pwn]

Saibh wrote...

Mehow_pwn wrote...

I dont understand........

http://t1.gstatic.co...qGB4qUj_7fIR1Q=

(get it? )

I'm sorry, but assuming that all women like Twilight, that all women who would like to hear a voice clip of female Hawke want their games to be more sparklepire is just plain sexist.

Not one. Single. Person. Has requested as much.

I get it now  

maybe your right

[Haexpane]

Dear Bioware -

Make Jade Empire 2 for PS360 nowkthxbye
Make Kotor 3 for PS360 nowkthxbye
Make Baldur's Gate 3 for PS360 nowkthxbye
Make Star Trek Deep Space 9 for PS360 nowkthxbye using ME1/2 engine nowkthxbye
Port BG1 and BG2 and all NWN games to PSN/XBL nowkthxbye

Keep on making as many MEs and Dragon Ages as you'd like, but howzabout some love for us other series fans?

I  Bioware, canadian or not!:wub::wub:

[yhibiki]

addiction21 wrote...

Sorry for the rant. Being a white male I have been on the wrong side of political correctness and affirmitive action far too many times. Only made worse by living in the U.S.A. and coming of age in the 1990's.
No malice is ment but I think people need to readjust themselves. Why is it such a big deal that a cgi trailer developed by a seperate company that has no impolication of how the game plays matter? When it is allready confirmed that you will have a Female Hawkes and Devid Gaider has allready said there is as much effort into making that a unique experiance as the male side?

If the femlae side was cut entirley FROM THE GAME then I could understand.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that asking for a little bit more information about the female side of DA2 somehow cut into your rights as a white male.

It matters because despite what you may think, marketing shapes a lot of perspectives. If little boys were constantly told that they should play with dolls, I'm fairly sure they would be playing with them. Heck, action figures aren't that much different from barbie dolls, it's all a matter of marketing. If game companies start marketing to include women, then the game community wouldn't feel as toxic to female gamers. (And yes, depending on which forums you frequent, it can be very off-putting.) It could also expand the female gaming audience.

You have the privilege to "not care" about this issue. I don't. I notice it every time it happens. Quite honestly, until my guy friend showed me Mass Effect and played some of it with me, I had no idea the game was anything other than "generic space shooter." There's a reason I gravitated towards JRPGs -- main characters might be male, but the supporting cast tends to include strong female characters. (There are definitely gender issues in JRPGs as well, and I'm not giving them a free pass. I just tend to notice more notable female characters in Japanese games.)

[Greye]

I just found out about this male-only game.



Epic. Fail. Feel like I was punched in the stomach.



I was going to buy a second copy of DA 1 to play again since I just upgraded my PC (I have it on PS3), but Bioware won't get another DA dollar from me.



Thanks for making this thread.

[manda65]

Eh I don't really mind that it's marketed towards males.



I do however don't think that it's too much to ask to see a picture of default female Hawke though.

[obnoxiousgas]

yhibiki wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Sorry for the rant. Being a white male I have been on the wrong side of political correctness and affirmitive action far too many times. Only made worse by living in the U.S.A. and coming of age in the 1990's.
No malice is ment but I think people need to readjust themselves. Why is it such a big deal that a cgi trailer developed by a seperate company that has no impolication of how the game plays matter? When it is allready confirmed that you will have a Female Hawkes and Devid Gaider has allready said there is as much effort into making that a unique experiance as the male side?

If the femlae side was cut entirley FROM THE GAME then I could understand.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that asking for a little bit more information about the female side of DA2 somehow cut into your rights as a white male.

It matters because despite what you may think, marketing shapes a lot of perspectives. If little boys were constantly told that they should play with dolls, I'm fairly sure they would be playing with them. Heck, action figures aren't that much different from barbie dolls, it's all a matter of marketing. If game companies start marketing to include women, then the game community wouldn't feel as toxic to female gamers. (And yes, depending on which forums you frequent, it can be very off-putting.) It could also expand the female gaming audience.

You have the privilege to "not care" about this issue. I don't. I notice it every time it happens. Quite honestly, until my guy friend showed me Mass Effect and played some of it with me, I had no idea the game was anything other than "generic space shooter." There's a reason I gravitated towards JRPGs -- main characters might be male, but the supporting cast tends to include strong female characters. (There are definitely gender issues in JRPGs as well, and I'm not giving them a free pass. I just tend to notice more notable female characters in Japanese games.)

Thank you for responding to this. I kept trying, but I was getting way more testy than is really necessary online.

[Haexpane]

yhibiki wrote...

 
  then the game community wouldn't feel as toxic to female gamers. (And yes, depending on which forums you frequent, it can be very off-putting.) It could also expand the female gaming audience.

 

I have to break it to you, the game community, especially on forums isn't 'off putting' to women.  It's 'off-putting' to anyone who is sane.

We come to these forums because it's Bioware and it's a game we love, no other reason.

Someone could spend a BILLION DOLLARs in marketing and that would never change.  The internet is a cesspool of anonymous hate and trolling.  It's also the only place left free of any sort of censorship (Not these forums but the internet in general)

The result has seen some wonderfully funny cat videos, and also some of the most dumb racism I've ever seen (youtube)

To ask Bioware to fix the problem of the internet being a scary dangerous place is simply unrealistic at best.

[DPB]

Greye wrote...

I just found out about this male-only game.

You can still play as a female character in DA2.

[rexil]

Greye wrote...

I just found out about this male-only game.

Epic. Fail. Feel like I was punched in the stomach.

I was going to buy a second copy of DA 1 to play again since I just upgraded my PC (I have it on PS3), but Bioware won't get another DA dollar from me.

Thanks for making this thread.

WAT

[John Epler]

Haexpane wrote...

yhibiki wrote...

 
  then the game community wouldn't feel as toxic to female gamers. (And yes, depending on which forums you frequent, it can be very off-putting.) It could also expand the female gaming audience.

 

I have to break it to you, the game community, especially on forums isn't 'off putting' to women.  It's 'off-putting' to anyone who is sane.

We come to these forums because it's Bioware and it's a game we love, no other reason.

Someone could spend a BILLION DOLLARs in marketing and that would never change.  The internet is a cesspool of anonymous hate and trolling.  It's also the only place left free of any sort of censorship (Not these forums but the internet in general)

The result has seen some wonderfully funny cat videos, and also some of the most dumb racism I've ever seen (youtube)

To ask Bioware to fix the problem of the internet being a scary dangerous place is simply unrealistic at best.

I don't think it's inaccurate to suggest that a lot of game forums are more toxic towards females than towards males. There's a reason that any initiatives that attempt to remove the veil of anonymity in game communities are more vocally opposed by women than by men.

Though again, we're starting to trend away from this topic relating to DA2, so let's try and nudge it back on-course

Modifié par JohnEpler, 17 août 2010 - 10:11 .

[Haexpane]

yhibiki wrote...
 There's a reason I gravitated towards JRPGs -- main characters might be male

Might being the key here...

Vagrant Story for the PS1 is one of my favorite RPGs of all time.  One of the most deep and challenging dungeon crawling RPGs ever made

The main character is named "Ashley" and one of the early villains has a 19" waist, long flowing blonde hair, and long fingernails.

It took me 1.5 hours before I realized both characters are supposed to be male

[zahra]

Saibh wrote...

Mehow_pwn wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Mehow_pwn wrote...

Because then dragon age could end up as twilight... and we all know how crapy **** that was. Where the vampires didnt drink blood but shined like a diamond in the sun..

What are you talking about? 

Also, I'm no fan, but...yeah, the sparklepires drink blood. That's pretty much the only vampire thing they do.

Im talking about this wave of feministic women into gaming thinking they can turn dragon age into twilight...

Not that women are a bad thing.. ever! ,but in this subject.. maybe.. becaue mostly what women think is cool is not the same.. as men least I think(I am probobly worng..)

...

Dude.

I...

Please. Leave. Before...

...

There are no words that can aptly describe my hatred for Twilight.

@Mehow Also if that is your world view on women in general then you are either very young, or should expand your social circle. Seriously.

[Danjaru]

mosaiclobster wrote...

I know a lot of threads have been made about this before, but since this one is nice hopefully it will stay open

I was *just* thinking about this. How freakin amazing would it be to have female be canon? I understand that games are marketed to males because they're a larger part of the target market, but I think on novelty alone such a game would get tons of attention. It's probably too much to hope for, but good lord I would buy that game so fast. And I'm tired of being told it's not a big deal, that we should just be grateful there's an option at all. It's easy for you to say guys, you're the ones that are being catered to!

Lol what? There is no Canon in Dragon Age, Warden was whatever you made him, no underlining canon that's there for continuity, same with Mass Effect. Only ones using Canon are star wars RPGs because of continuity.

But yeah, back to topic, I don't care either way, if a female Hawke trailer is made I'll just dismiss it as my Hawke will be male so in my canon it'll just be false. But on the other hand it would be nice to see Bioware make an awesome female Hawke to appease that demographic.

But for some reason I see Fem Hawke being built like a playboy model like many games portray their female characters, which is bad.

Modifié par Danjaru, 17 août 2010 - 10:40 .

[Greye]

dbankier wrote...
You can still play as a female character in DA2.

Oh.  That's not what this says at Escapist.  Sorry for my outburst.  I just assumed you could only play Hawke, reinforced by the wording of the OP.  Thanks for clarifying. 

[elearon1]

Images are important to people, images can sell products. Whether you want to admit it or not, the cover of a book *does* make up quite a few minds about the content. For myself and many others, the imagine of a female hero on the cover of a fictional work - so rare it is - does go a long way toward making me stop and take a second look at the material.



For DA2, I know that there will be potential for a female hero - which I will play first - so it doesn't influence me as much ... but for those who haven't followed the forums and stayed on top of the articles (and some of those have been terribly inaccurate anyway) the lack of a female hero in the marketing imagery may be enough to cause them to give the game an initial pass.



I'm not saying DA2 will bomb if it doesn't have a female hero on the cover - but I'd bet money it would sell a few more copies if it did.

[Chaos-fusion]

Greye wrote...

dbankier wrote...
You can still play as a female character in DA2.

Oh.  That's not what this says at Escapist.  Sorry for my outburst.  I just assumed you could only play Hawke, reinforced by the wording of the OP.  Thanks for clarifying. 

To be fair, marketing will no doubt keep referring to Hawke as male. Even at the Gamescom event earlier, it was all he this, and he that. It's no suprise that it can cause confusion.

Also, how did Twilight get into this? Bleh!

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 17 août 2010 - 10:39 .