425 réponses à ce sujet

[addiction21]

Modifié par addiction21, 17 août 2010 - 10:39 .

[Saibh]

elearon1 wrote...

Images are important to people, images can sell products. Whether you want to admit it or not, the cover of a book *does* make up quite a few minds about the content. For myself and many others, the imagine of a female hero on the cover of a fictional work - so rare it is - does go a long way toward making me stop and take a second look at the material.

Kay, first of fall, we're not asking for cover time. We have gotten nothing yet, so we're requestion the bare minium. Second...

[img]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:6YEkTvye7f3drM:http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/Croix28/KOTOR.png&t=1[/img][img]http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bigboxshots/8/920668_54425_front.jpg[/img]
[img]http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID6894/images/Jade_Empire_box_art.png[/img]

All of them featuring a female more predominately than a male.

And then...

[img]http://gaygamer.net/images/mass-effect-boxart.jpg[/img][img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSV16sZ_17S-zHPgqAKxwHRUzUf8VwO6cs8pEV49IK9iaOOZds&t=1&usg=__EArvaY5MxzhHp4u9PX5Le6eO5yE=[/img]

These aren't afraid to show a female obviously on the cover art--neither of whom are overtly sexualized.

EDIT: Screw you, formatting!

Modifié par Saibh, 17 août 2010 - 10:49 .

[WilliamShatner]

dbankier wrote...

Greye wrote...

I just found out about this male-only game.

You can still play as a female character in DA2.

You wouldn't know from the marketing.

[Dave of Canada]

Saibh wrote...

elearon1 wrote...

Images are important to people, images can sell products. Whether you want to admit it or not, the cover of a book *does* make up quite a few minds about the content. For myself and many others, the imagine of a female hero on the cover of a fictional work - so rare it is - does go a long way toward making me stop and take a second look at the material.

Kay, first of fall, we're not asking for cover time. We have gotten nothing yet, so we're requestion the bare minium. Second...

These aren't afraid to show a female obviously on the cover art--neither of whom are overtly sexualized.

EDIT: Screw you, formatting!

But look at the demon positioned between the girl's legs for Jade Empire.

[The Edge]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Saibh wrote...

elearon1 wrote...

Images are important to people, images can sell products. Whether you want to admit it or not, the cover of a book *does* make up quite a few minds about the content. For myself and many others, the imagine of a female hero on the cover of a fictional work - so rare it is - does go a long way toward making me stop and take a second look at the material.

Kay, first of fall, we're not asking for cover time. We have gotten nothing yet, so we're requestion the bare minium. Second...

These aren't afraid to show a female obviously on the cover art--neither of whom are overtly sexualized.

EDIT: Screw you, formatting!

But look at the demon positioned between the girl's legs for Jade Empire.

It's secretly sexist!!!
jk

[elearon1]

>>Kay, first of fall, we're not asking for cover time. We have gotten nothing yet, so we're requestion the bare minium. Second...<<



Not sure if or why you're arguing with me here - since everything I said was in support of giving a female Hawke more exposure.



I would like to see a female version of the protagonist appear somewhere and hope we see something in the art in the near future.

[Saibh]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Saibh wrote...

elearon1 wrote...

Images are important to people, images can sell products. Whether you want to admit it or not, the cover of a book *does* make up quite a few minds about the content. For myself and many others, the imagine of a female hero on the cover of a fictional work - so rare it is - does go a long way toward making me stop and take a second look at the material.

Kay, first of fall, we're not asking for cover time. We have gotten nothing yet, so we're requestion the bare minium. Second...

These aren't afraid to show a female obviously on the cover art--neither of whom are overtly sexualized.

EDIT: Screw you, formatting!

But look at the demon positioned between the girl's legs for Jade Empire.

I lol'd!

I own that very same copy, and I never noticed. Wow, nice raepface.

[Bryy_Miller]

zahra wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Don't remind me of how old I turn tomorrow.

Thirteen?

I was wondering about this. Are you turning 18 or something? 

28. 

[Saibh]

elearon1 wrote...

>>Kay, first of fall, we're not asking for cover time. We have gotten nothing yet, so we're requestion the bare minium. Second...

Not sure if or why you're arguing with me here - since everything I said was in support of giving a female Hawke more exposure.

I would like to see a female version of the protagonist appear somewhere and hope we see something in the art in the near future.

...I think I should have started with that reply saying:

"I agree.

Kay, first of all..."

I sort of forgot in my effort to get those pictures to arrange properly.

I'm sorry!

[zahra]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Saibh wrote...

elearon1 wrote...

Images are important to people, images can sell products. Whether you want to admit it or not, the cover of a book *does* make up quite a few minds about the content. For myself and many others, the imagine of a female hero on the cover of a fictional work - so rare it is - does go a long way toward making me stop and take a second look at the material.

Kay, first of fall, we're not asking for cover time. We have gotten nothing yet, so we're requestion the bare minium. Second...

These aren't afraid to show a female obviously on the cover art--neither of whom are overtly sexualized.

EDIT: Screw you, formatting!

But look at the demon positioned between the girl's legs for Jade Empire.

Chai Ka is just going "Yo, whaddup!"

Get those filthy thoughts out of your head. *judging you right now*

[zahra]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

zahra wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Don't remind me of how old I turn tomorrow.

Thirteen?

I was wondering about this. Are you turning 18 or something? 

28. 

Oh okay, your status update made me think you were just coming of age or something. 

[elearon1]

Saibh wrote...
..I think I should have started with that reply saying:
"I agree.
Kay, first of all..."
I sort of forgot in my effort to get those pictures to arrange properly.
I'm sorry!

No problem, just wanted to avoid any unnecessary misunderstandings. 

[Tirigon]

zahra wrote...

_purifico_ wrote...

I am female and I don't give a **** whether the main character of Dragon Age or any other game is male or female. I also don't care whether the gender of choice for marketing purposes in games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age (i.e. games where the protagonist can be both male and female) is male as long as the game itself is good.
Come to think of it - I'd prefer to drool all over sexy male Hawke swinging his polearm, casting forbidden magicks and all that jazz, rather than stare blandly at some chick.

Also, games are for fun, not for your stupid feminist crap.

Eloquently put, and so insightful as well.

/sarcasm

Remove the sarcasm and you´re right, zahra.

I am glad to see women like purifico who have some sense in them.

[syllogi]

Tirigon wrote...

zahra wrote...

_purifico_ wrote...

I am female and I don't give a **** whether the main character of Dragon Age or any other game is male or female. I also don't care whether the gender of choice for marketing purposes in games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age (i.e. games where the protagonist can be both male and female) is male as long as the game itself is good.
Come to think of it - I'd prefer to drool all over sexy male Hawke swinging his polearm, casting forbidden magicks and all that jazz, rather than stare blandly at some chick.

Also, games are for fun, not for your stupid feminist crap.

Eloquently put, and so insightful as well.

/sarcasm

Remove the sarcasm and you´re right, zahra.

I am glad to see women like purifico who have some sense in them.

So...this is sarcasm too???    Purifico is saying that she prefers turning male protagonists into sexual objects for her to drool over, rather than have the OPTION to play a female character that could be a positive role model.  She also thinks that feminism has something to do with the issue, which is patently false.

All of the people in favor of having female player characters in marketing for games have been eloquent and polite, generally, while many of the people in this thread who are against it or don't think it matter feel the need to resort to insults or pull out Godwin or make up false statistics about how few women gamers there are.  It's pretty indicative of how little progress the world has actually made in breaking down gender roles, and how much misogyny still exists in the 21st century. 

Modifié par TeenZombie, 17 août 2010 - 11:41 .

[Saibh]

Tirigon wrote...

zahra wrote...

_purifico_ wrote...

I am female and I don't give a **** whether the main character of Dragon Age or any other game is male or female. I also don't care whether the gender of choice for marketing purposes in games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age (i.e. games where the protagonist can be both male and female) is male as long as the game itself is good.
Come to think of it - I'd prefer to drool all over sexy male Hawke swinging his polearm, casting forbidden magicks and all that jazz, rather than stare blandly at some chick.

Also, games are for fun, not for your stupid feminist crap.

Eloquently put, and so insightful as well.

/sarcasm

Remove the sarcasm and you´re right, zahra.

I am glad to see women like purifico who have some sense in them.

You know, Tirigon, I've consistently seen you post some chauvinist stuff. You don't want women in trailers, you think they should where chainmail bikinis...

Just because one woman doesn't care to see a female Hawke doesn't mean she shouldn't be here. I'm glad you think wanting to be represented even a little is ignorant.

Also, we have a dev on our side.

Modifié par Saibh, 17 août 2010 - 11:44 .

[Thicos]

I love the idea.



Why not a hermaphrodite Hawke? hahahahah

[mellifera]

Sure, why not? Having an intersexed individual presented in a positive light as a hero and not a fetishist ****** toy would be groundbreaking. An accurate protrayal, not some half-man/half-woman fantasy thing. But that's lightyears away, if we can't even get females portrayed that way, much less a person who doesn't fit socially enforced gender stereotypes (I mean, look at all the hatred for Alistair for not being 'manly' enough, even, and he's a white, able bodied male...)

Modifié par yukidama, 17 août 2010 - 11:58 .

[Eudaemonium]

Why not? Well, except for the reasons that a strict hermaphodite isn't technically possible. Intersex Hawke? that I could go for.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by yukidama!

Modifié par Eudaemonium, 17 août 2010 - 11:58 .

[Dave of Canada]

zahra wrote...

Chai Ka is just going "Yo, whaddup!"

Get those filthy thoughts out of your head. *judging you right now*

That's exactly what I was implying! What were YOU thinking?

[Elanareon]

How about making Male Hawke main protagonist for Males and Bethany Hawke will be main protagonist for female? What im saying is if you're a male, you're a male hawke with a female sib, and if you're female, you're a female hawke with a male sib?

[Bryy_Miller]

zahra wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

zahra wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Don't remind me of how old I turn tomorrow.

Thirteen?

I was wondering about this. Are you turning 18 or something? 

28. 

Oh okay, your status update made me think you were just coming of age or something. 

Who says I'm not? 

[Haexpane]

Saibh wrote...

elearon1 wrote...

Images are important to people, images can sell products. Whether you want to admit it or not, the cover of a book *does* make up quite a few minds about the content. For myself and many others, the imagine of a female hero on the cover of a fictional work - so rare it is - does go a long way toward making me stop and take a second look at the material.

Kay, first of fall, we're not asking for cover time. We have gotten nothing yet, so we're requestion the bare minium. Second...

[img]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:6YEkTvye7f3drM:http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/Croix28/KOTOR.png&t=1[/img][img]http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bigboxshots/8/920668_54425_front.jpg[/img]
[img]http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID6894/images/Jade_Empire_box_art.png[/img]

All of them featuring a female more predominately than a male.

And then...

[img]http://gaygamer.net/images/mass-effect-boxart.jpg[/img][img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSV16sZ_17S-zHPgqAKxwHRUzUf8VwO6cs8pEV49IK9iaOOZds&t=1&usg=__EArvaY5MxzhHp4u9PX5Le6eO5yE=[/img]

These aren't afraid to show a female obviously on the cover art--neither of whom are overtly sexualized.

EDIT: Screw you, formatting!

Cover comments (thanks for posting them)

DAO - most artistic cover
ME2 - most cheeseball looks like an 80s action/sci fi junk novel cover
Jade Empire - best overall, reminds me of old Star Wars movie posters and has a spoiler for the best weapon
KotoR - most world altering cover ever.  A game that was better than 4 of the Star Wars films!

[Haexpane]

Did someone say "role model"

No, fictional characters are not "role models" unless you are really dopey.

Modifié par Haexpane, 18 août 2010 - 12:31 .

[Blessed Silence]

JohnEpler wrote...

Blessed Silence wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

suemaw wrote...

Maybe not a trailer, but it would be nice to have artwork with the default female Hawke the same day as the trailer. Do you guys at Bioware even have your default female Hawke done yet?

I can't comment on anything else in this thread (because I really don't have the relevant information on any of it!), but I can tell you that on the Cinematic Design team, at least, we're splitting our time about 50/50 between using the Male Hawke and the Female Hawke for iteration. This is to ensure that, in conversation, Female Hawke doesn't end up looking like Male Hawke but with a different model.

Sadly, the fem****s probably will find a way to make this a bad thing as well.
"Only 50%?"

Honestly, I don't see a desire for more female-focused attention in development to be an unreasonable request. And this thread has been very reasonable and quite pleasant, really.

It's easy to forget that, for a lot of the population, there's a sizable portion of entertainment that doesn't really take them into consideration. And attempting to ensure that this not be the case is not what I'd classify as something I take umbrage at. If anything, it's good to be reminded that there are all sorts of people who enjoy the work you put out, and who would enjoy it more if you took a little extra time to make it more appealing to them.

Sooo ... care for some of my homemade cookies?   Lasagna?  Chicken?  I make a mean stir fry!

*tries to distract so she can sneak into Mr. Epler's office*

I don't know, I make some pretty spectacular white chocolate macademia nut cookies. And I am oft-referred to as the 'Stir-fry king'. Well, the latter is mostly me referring to myself, but still.

And the Mr. Epler business! It makes me feel old. I'm only 25!

/blink

Goodness you could be my brother at that age!

[addiction21]

Saibh wrote...


Also, we have a dev on our side.

1. I do not agree with Tirgon
2. You have a dev on your side as far as the game is concerned... and other then it being arkward playing a female in some of the previous games (the dialogue choices) what has changed? Oh that there was a trailer that lacked a female protaganist.
Here let me provide some examples of previous BioWare games and the trailers that preceded them.

Mass Effect 2. Where was the outrage then? (still wondering where the outrage is of the countless butt and cleavage shots forced into that game but i guess thats nothing compared to some marketing 3 minute CGI trailer)
http://www.dailymoti...iler_videogames The Mass Effect trailer... lack of female protaginist shown, Still wonder where the outrage was...
Again a lack of a female lead being shown...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVpl4eKn3aY Jade Empire. Now this one has a couple of scenes with a female lead shown but it is close to 90% male 10% female.

I apologize again for my lack of tact but what is it you ladies really want?

I just linked trailers from the past decade of BioWare games and even tho the marketing did not show females in the majority but every single game gave you the option of playing as a male or female. I cannot think of another game developer that has done more for this idea of "gender neutrality"

So what is it? Marketing making preconceptions is a poor argument. Barbie's and G.I. Joes are as much action figures as they are dolls. Marketing (and those people performing that job) are in it for the numbers. The number show something so they follow it. There is no big conspiracy. Hell the fact that more money has been poored into the development of these games to allow you to choose between genders proves there is not.

Also after reading David Gaiders comment that it is a 50/50 split is astounding. Can anyone of you name a previous game that devoted to that is astounding. I can not think of a game previously that has done that or put that type of time into making the male experiance as unique as the females.

If your sole decision on buying something is the cgi (that lacks any gameplay) trailer (commercial they are the same thing) then there should be no pity for you. You also must think Burgerking makes the best hamburgers and McDonalds has the best breakfest.

I mean it has nothing to do with the actual product. It has everything to do with those so weak minded they accept what equilvates to propaganda as the truth.

The truth is BIoWare with every release is doing MORE AND MORE for your "gender neutrality". The evidence lays in the previous games, their content, and the trailers that preceded them.

But at some point a choice has to be made in some areas.

The proof is in the pudding and the pudding was not that trailer.

Just so it is clear. I agree that there should be more female leads but because something does not have on does no mean it is some sexist conspiracy. The rants going on today are nothing different then me complaing that the lead in this trailer made me upset because he was not a clean shaven, short haired man, standing six foot eight inches who walked with a limp.

Again MOUNTAINS OUT OF MOLE HILLS

Modifié par addiction21, 18 août 2010 - 12:51 .