55 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaalyah]

Hello everybody. I am interested in the creation of custom contents and whatever... I've seen some mods around extremely interesting and I would like to know what exactly we can do with toolset and mods without going against the copyright of Bioware game.
Anyone knows?
Thanks.

[c i p h e r]

That's probably spelled out in the EULA but if it's the same as NWN1, you can do whatever you want except sell your work. Anything you create legally belongs to the publisher. They own the copyrights to your mods. That's the cliff notes version, anyway.

[Vaalyah]

That's for sure, but since in BG, for example, we can do everything except modifying BGmain.exe, and since I am not a lawyer, I was curious about what we are supposed to "can" do and "can't".



And by the way, if you can tell me how to find the "find all post by this user" query here around, I will thank you, since I couldn't remember where I have posted this thread and I am unable to find the search post by user query to find it!

[Dynamomark]

Vaalyah wrote...

And by the way, if you can tell me how to find the "find all post by this user" query here around, I will thank you, since I couldn't remember where I have posted this thread and I am unable to find the search post by user query to find it!

To the left of the search box at the top, there's a Jump To drop down menu. Choose: "Your Posts."

[Urk]

Cypher has it right. What it boils down to is that everything you do in the toolset, and all files you create in any NWN specific file format, is the property of Atari and can be used for anything... at their discretion. Technically they can do whatever they want, including revoke your license to use your toolset because they don't like your favorite sweater. Legally other users can do whatever they want with your submissions provided Atari doesn't care. What's legal and what's right are two different things, though. As a rule the community expects you to respect the CC of other content creators and not use it in a manner inconsistant with their wishes. 

Modifié par Urk, 25 août 2010 - 03:55 .

[Vaalyah]

@ Dynamomark: sure, it's true! I haven't noticed it before, thank you!



@ Urk: from what I had listened, there were some files on the vault that Atari (or someone for it) has asked to be removed...

[dunniteowl]

Vaalyah, to the best of my knowledge, that was the Dragon Lance series from NWN, not NWN2, though I don't know if there has been any indication since that time that Atari even pays attention to any of this, including the Vault submissions. Still, the best you can hope for is some big company actually pays attentiion to the efforts and, if it suits them, to file a Cease and Desist. You know what they say, "Any press is good press."

dno

[Ingthar]

Urk wrote...

What it boils down to is that everything you do in the toolset, and all files you create in any NWN specific file format, is the property of Atari and can be used for anything... at their discretion. Technically they can do whatever they want, including revoke your license to use your toolset because they don't like your favorite sweater. Legally other users can do whatever they want with your submissions provided Atari doesn't care.

Uh...oh... No! Neither Atari nor any other user are allowed to do what they want with any content you create. This depends on local law... For example, in Germany -- and I assume this is true for whole european union --, you can NOT give up your copyright. It is, well, I don't know how to translate, so let's try: not transferable.

I've never ever signed an EULA for the toolset. And if Atari brought up an EULA before installing the game, this one is invalid (at least in Germany). But, well,  this is just legal rubbish, lawyers like to talk about.

Going back to Vaalyah's question. If you want to create custom content you should not violate any licence given by Atari. And do not violate copyright of any third party. And do not expect anyone, beside the community, to respect or to credit you work.

Well, my answer is as vague as Vaalyah's question... Maybe I've should have said nothing... But, sorry, I can not stay silent if I read assumptions, like Urk's, which may be true for the US but not for the whole world. So, let us finish with some wise words:

Urk wrote...

As a rule the community expects you to respect the CC of other content
creators and not use it in a manner inconsistant with their wishes.

[Vaalyah]

Well, just to make people understand my point... it is not that I want to crack a game or whatever, it is just that I would like to translate into Italian the romance mod (if the authors still agree) and add some other contents to the game. I don't even know if I would ever share those contents, but just in case... you know!

I was in the Sims2 community and I totally agree that stealing others' contents, claiming others CCs for yours is a bad way of behaving. So this is not my case. I would like to translate that mod for those who are not good in English and I would like to add some other CCs in my game for myself (hoping the toolset would work on my computer). But I am curious: in case the things I do for myself could ever interest someone else, so I share them... what can/can't I do without going against the copyright?



That is my question.

[Lightfoot8]

The toolset is the property of Atari. Being the property of Atari they have stated that anything that you make with it and distribute belongs to them. You can not sell it or make money on it. If this was not the case we would be breaking the copyright of Hasbro with most of the content we make. After all it is Atari that has the license to make content relating to D&D from Hasbro.



Now You can make your own content and not give Atari the right to use it. In this case per the EULA you are not allowed to distribute it. Once you distribute, Atari has the right to also package and distribute it if they chose to. With or without giving credit to the person who made it. It is all in the Original EULA that came with NWN.



So if you make a model. No Atari has No right to it. As soon as you place it in there Game and make it publicly available (Other then a server ran by yourself) you wave your rights.

[Ingthar]

Vaalyah wrote...

I would like to translate that mod for those who are not good in English and I would like to add some other CCs in my game for myself (hoping the toolset would work on my computer). But I am curious: in case the things I do for myself could ever interest someone else, so I share them... what can/can't I do without going against the copyright?

That is my question.

First of all: Translating a module into a foreign language is, usually, nothing an author would deny.

If you want to apply some changes you should ask the author first; this should be no hassle if the module is on the vault. It get's hard if the author left the community. Legally you may not base your work on his/her work. but it's unusal that anyone will chase you for that as long as you give credits.

[Vaalyah]

So in this sense I can create whatever I want with the toolset?

Ie: let's say someone create with the toolset a setting or a mod for the OC that is not politically correct (don't know, just an example). Has Atari the right to remove it?

This is not my case, it is just to understand the matter a bit better.

[Ingthar]

Lightfoot8 wrote...

So if you make a model. No Atari has No right to it. As soon as you place it in there Game and make it publicly available (Other then a server ran by yourself) you wave your rights.

No.

[Lightfoot8]

You can not modify any .exe or .dll
Per the NWN EULA. I have not read the NWN2 EULA.

3. End-User Variations. So long as you fully comply, at all times,
with this License, Atari, Inc. grants to you a limited, personal, revocable,
non-exclusive right to: (i) use the Software's toolset feature to create
your own NEVERWINTER NIGHTS modules ("Modules"), and (ii) create your
own modifications to work with the Software (e.g., custom data files not
created using the toolset) (the "User Conversions", and together with the
Modules, the "Variations"). Your rights to create Variations are subject
to the following restrictions: (1) your Variations must only work with
the full commercial version of the software game NEVERWINTER NIGHTS;
(2) your Variations must not contain modifications to any executable file;
(3) your Variations must not contain any libelous, defamatory, pornographic,
obscene, or other illegal material, material that is scandalous or
invades the rights of privacy or publicity of any third party, or
contain any trademarks, copyright-protected work or other property of
third parties, or contain any viruses, worms, or other malicious code;
and (4) you may not rent, sell, lease, lend, offer on a pay-per-play or
timesharing basis or otherwise commercially exploit or commercially distribute
your Variations (including, without limitation, hosting pay-per-play servers,
hosting pay-per-download web-sites for Variations including sites that charge
for bandwidth use, and independently selling Variations online, at retail,
mail order, etc.). Without limiting the foregoing, you expressly acknowledge
and agree that in no event shall you have the right or license to make any
modification (whether using the toolkit or otherwise) to any portion of
the Software for the purpose of creating any data file, executable,
or other derivative work that is intended to operate in a stand-alone mode,
with any pre-release or beta version of NEVERWINTER NIGHTS, or any software
program other than NEVERWINTER NIGHTS.

　
The part in red is what I think is violated the most once people start messing with dll's and .exe's. But many around here disagree with me.

Modifié par Lightfoot8, 25 août 2010 - 08:56 .

[Ingthar]

Vaalyah wrote...

So in this sense I can create whatever I want with the toolset?
Ie: let's say someone create with the toolset a setting or a mod for the OC that is not politically correct (don't know, just an example). Has Atari the right to remove it?
This is not my case, it is just to understand the matter a bit better.

Remove from... where?

[Ingthar]

Lightfoot8 wrote...

You can not modify any .exe or .dll

I want to second this. You must not modify the code of the game (regardless of .exe or .dll). This is violating law (and usually does not need to be stated in an EULA).

But as far as I understood the question was: What may I do with the toolset.

[Vaalyah]

Remove from... I don't know, ie: the vault, where many mods are!

Lightfoot: what is the full commercial version? Game plus both expansion?

[Lightfoot8]

Vaalyah wrote...

Remove from... I don't know, ie: the vault, where many mods are!
Lightfoot: what is the full commercial version? Game plus both expansion?

The way I read it is:  If a player has to run an aplication other then Original NWN exe's in order to play your game.  Then more then the Commercial version of the game is needed in order to play.   

Both Expansions would be the full Commercial version.  But it can handle running modules that where made without the expansions also. 

[The Fred]

AFAIK, as a general rule of thumb, all the copyright belongs to Them, even if you made the thing in question.



I do not think this would hold true for third-party programmes, though (e.g. utilities designed to work with the NWN(2) engine and/or files, but not consisting of them) since they are all your own work.

[Urk]

Ingthar wrote...
I've never ever signed an EULA for the toolset.

You agreed to these stipulations when you installed the game. If you don't want to transfer ownership of your IP to Atari you have the option of not using the toolset.

This EULA is on hazy legal ground but has yet to be challenged in court. Nevertheless, by installing the game you agreed to these terms in good faith. If you did not agree to the terms of the EULA you should not have accepted it.

Vaalyah wrote...

 let's say someone create with the
toolset a setting or a mod for the OC that is not politically correct
(don't know, just an example). Has Atari the right to remove it?

Yes. Atari can forbid you from distributing your content, and even revoke your lisence to use the toolset entirely, for any reason. 

Modifié par Urk, 26 août 2010 - 02:26 .

[dunniteowl]

All that said, it's highly unlikely this will happen provided a bit of common sense is applied.

dunniteowl

[Vaalyah]

I read that the toolset patches are independent by the game patches... so I can have the toolset with SoZ functions even if I don't have SoZ or also MotB... so in this sense, how can I try my modules done with patches for SoZ if I haven't SoZ?

[painofdungeoneternal]

Urk wrote...

Ingthar wrote...
I've never ever signed an EULA for the toolset.

You agreed to these stipulations when you installed the game. If you don't want to transfer ownership of your IP to Atari you have the option of not using the toolset.

This EULA is on hazy legal ground but has yet to be challenged in court. Nevertheless, by installing the game you agreed to these terms in good faith. If you did not agree to the terms of the EULA you should not have accepted it.

Vaalyah wrote...

 let's say someone create with the
toolset a setting or a mod for the OC that is not politically correct
(don't know, just an example). Has Atari the right to remove it?

Yes. Atari can forbid you from distributing your content, and even revoke your lisence to use the toolset entirely, for any reason. 

I've never agreed to a EULA and like most people don't even read them and assume they are a standard EULA, i've had many which claimed ridiculous things, such as ownership of anything i post or anything i write or draw using their product. I can understand that with something like Poser, but not for something where most of what is being done is being done by me. If they said by using this software i agree to forfeit my house to you, and i fail to read it, good luck taking my house away from me, nor can it be used to steal copyright ownership in a way that will stand up in court. If you want ownership of my inventions you better have something signed and proof you paid me somehow.

They put it in fine print, in general it's full of wild claims about how they own everything copied from some previous EULA, you don't own anything, and that they can revoke ownership at any time and often you cannot even resell it. Most of it is just "positioning", and has nothing to do with being reasonable, and frankly i am more concerned about whether they plan on suing or asserting their rights. What is reasonable and fair use of their product which i now own is far more important.

I mean imagine if they were binding and we had to hire a lawyer every time we agreed to purchase a game, that would really help them sell their products. The EULA is probably the biggest disconnect between customers and the companies that make software.

[Ingthar]

Urk wrote...

Ingthar wrote...
I've never ever signed an EULA for the toolset.

You agreed to these stipulations when you installed the game. If you don't want to transfer ownership of your IP to Atari you have the option of not using the toolset.

This EULA is on hazy legal ground but has yet to be challenged in court. Nevertheless, by installing the game you agreed to these terms in good faith. If you did not agree to the terms of the EULA you should not have accepted it.

Sorry, but the EULA isn't effective due to German law restrictions. And I assume this holds true for other countries of European Union.

[Ingthar]

Vaalyah wrote...

I read that the toolset patches are independent by the game patches... so I can have the toolset with SoZ functions even if I don't have SoZ or also MotB... so in this sense, how can I try my modules done with patches for SoZ if I haven't SoZ?

Never heard about that. And even then, any change should have been applied to the core game too. So there should not arise any problem. But it's simple to test. Just create a short module and run it.

Please note, that SoZ is more than a patch to the core game. If you don't own SoZ, you're still lacking new spells, the new death script, overland scripts and ui, etc...