Could someone correct me if I am wrong but I remember reading somewhere that even those souls who get picked by their dieties do not exactly exist forever with them. From what I remember souls who get to go their dieties home plane eventually become one with either the god or the (energies of the ) plane itself.
As in your a Lawful good worshipper of Tyr and you go to his plane in the afterlife. After a long number of years, your soul eventually ceases to exist and becomes one with the plane/god.
Wall of the faithless
Débuté par
PJ156
, août 17 2010 08:58
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#27
Posté 18 août 2010 - 08:35
Seagloom
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@Vaalyah - True. Since a druid needs to worship a god to cast anything, you can't really be a level 1 druid without meeting that prerequisite but there's nothing saying it can't happen either.
To be honest, I kind of like that about Forgotten Realms. Kelemvor is one of the most interesting gods of death in D&D because he is so atypical. The Wall is part of that charm. It's undeniably unfair though.
To be honest, I kind of like that about Forgotten Realms. Kelemvor is one of the most interesting gods of death in D&D because he is so atypical. The Wall is part of that charm. It's undeniably unfair though.
Modifié par Seagloom, 18 août 2010 - 08:36 .
#28
Posté 18 août 2010 - 08:46
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@Sarethus - It depends on the god's realm. Player's Guide to Faerûn goes into detail on this. To cite three examples: souls in the Barrens of Doom and Despair (Bane, Beshaba, Loviatar, et al) become larvae and are snatched up for use as currency by fiends. Souls of Bright-water (Sune, Tymora, Selûne) change into apparitions that resemble how they looked in life and spend all their time reveling. Whereas souls in Malar's dominion gradually take on the shape of deadly predators until all they can think about are hunting prey.
Modifié par Seagloom, 18 août 2010 - 08:49 .
#29
Posté 18 août 2010 - 08:58
Vaalyah
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Seagloom, since you are so skilled on this subjects, do you know anything about 4th edition? I heard the wall of faithless doesn't exist any more. Is it true?
#30
Posté 18 août 2010 - 08:58
MokahTGS
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Ok, you guys just gave me a really evil idea for Jabberwocky....thanks! 
#31
Posté 18 août 2010 - 09:08
Seagloom
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Vaalyah wrote...
Seagloom, since you are so skilled on this subjects, do you know anything about 4th edition? I heard the wall of faithless doesn't exist any more. Is it true?
The Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide doesn't mention it at all. Howver, it is mentioned in the Realms of the Dead anthology--specifically in the Ressurection Agent short story which takes place during 4e's timeline. Since Forgotten Realms novels are considered canon by Wizards of the Coast we can safely conclude Kelemvor kept the Wall around. About the only thing that's changed is gods no longer claim the souls of all their worshippers. They only care about the exceptional among them; making Kelemvor's realm the home of most souls now.
Modifié par Seagloom, 18 août 2010 - 09:11 .
#32
Posté 18 août 2010 - 09:12
Vaalyah
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Well, we're here to provide evil ideas! ... or maybe not! 
@ Seagloom: hmmmm that's disappointing... so Kelemvor would have a city a bit overcrowded... it doesn't make any sense, why divinities should left their devotees there?
@ Seagloom: hmmmm that's disappointing... so Kelemvor would have a city a bit overcrowded... it doesn't make any sense, why divinities should left their devotees there?
Modifié par Vaalyah, 18 août 2010 - 09:14 .
#33
Posté 18 août 2010 - 09:29
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Well... he is capable of making his city effectively infinite. That's how most of the planes were. 4e made a lot of what I feel are arbitrary changes to the Forgotten Realms. Most of them were illogical from an in-world perspective. I could rant about it for pages. Of course, that would be grossly off topic for this forum and drive you all mad.
#34
Posté 18 août 2010 - 09:39
Vaalyah
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That is one of the reason I strongly hope the next D&D pc game would not be ruled by 4th ed.
However... in this sense Kelemvor in growing stronger and stronger...
However... in this sense Kelemvor in growing stronger and stronger...
#35
Posté 18 août 2010 - 09:51
kamalpoe
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Because this way they can make all the plots that should happen in Sigil happen there and not have it asked why they are still using a 2E setting?Vaalyah wrote...
@ Seagloom: hmmmm that's disappointing... so Kelemvor would have a city a bit overcrowded... it doesn't make any sense, why divinities should left their devotees there?
#37
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:27
kamalpoe
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It sounds very much like Sigil.Vaalyah wrote...
I am not sure to have understood...
"[Planescape] was a setting where cannibal halflings could open an eatery
and employ a Drow as the bartender while an angel and a demon fought
each other on the floor of the bar."
That's what would seem to happen if you kept packing beings from every alignment into one city. Sigil is highly crowded as well.
#38
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:34
Seagloom
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Well... Sigil has been referenced in 4e. They even referenced Spelljammer of all things. They have put out a lot more on the City of Brass (a city in the Elemental Chaos, formerly the Elemental Plane of Fire in past editions) than Sigil, though. Sigil does still get mentioned here and there, as do the factions even if they are based elsewhere. I don't think WotC is ready to bury Planescape just yet. It may even come back. This year's campaign setting is Dark Sun and that's darn old.
Modifié par Seagloom, 18 août 2010 - 10:36 .
#39
Posté 19 août 2010 - 02:29
Thiefy
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so what happened to them before kelemorv became a god?Seagloom wrote...
Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
that's my point though, and what I didn't like about the wall. You are more or less forced to have a faith regardless of how you live your life. Also, what happens to kids that are too young to have a faith or never get introduced to one? I'm assuming their souls get sucked into the wall too.
The sad part is it originally wasn't that way. When Kelemvor first ascended to godhood he strove to make the Afterlife reward the noble and punish the guilty. Evil people were tortured or used as labor, and those who lived good lives were rewarded. Unfortunately this approach had catastrophic results once his clerics made it known the afterlife worked that way. No one had any reason to to worship a god. Many people still did, but a steadily increasing number of individuals figured there was no point in doing so. All they had to do was be good people to get a nice afterlife.
The other gods, good and evil, got annoyed at their steady decline in worshippers and erosion of power, so they put Kelemvor, Mystra, and Cyric on trial (all for different reasons) with the accusation that they failures as gods. Kelemvor had a choice between losing his status or changing to another system that rectify's the current one's failings. At this point his LN nature kicked in hard and he came up with the current system that punishes those who don't worship gods. He basically became a conformist to keep his status. It fits in with his whole life story as a man who wanted to be heroic and good, but could never quite make it. Too bad for every soul on Toril though.
As far as children without a deity, I'm not sure on the specifics. There is a Forgotten Realms novel that covers this very subject, but I've forgotten the name and never read it besides.
@Kamalpoe - Dead deities end up floating endlessly in the Astral Plane. Their portfolios are taken by other gods or left unclaimed if no one else desires them or can somehow incorporate them. The husks of dead deities are where the Githyanki build their cities. They literally live on the backs of massive divine corpses. On those rare occasions when a dead deity's worship resumes enough for it to ressurect itself, it leaves the Astral Plane and takes up dominion in its own godly realm.
#40
Posté 19 août 2010 - 05:01
Seagloom
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Cyric did not care about doing a good job and no one called him on it during his tenure. Myrkul and Jergal before him were in power during a period when worshipers were less important and could do whatever they wanted to any souls. The latter was so possessive in fact that he needed to be appeased to release souls.
Cyric held the portfolio and did nothing special over it. He reveled in his power and used it to terrify people. Maybe Cyric would have run into issues eventually; except he was so paranoid and obsessed with gaining an edge over Mystra he eventually lost portfolios to Kelemvor and Iyatchu Xvim. In any case, the brief decade in which he held the office was full of chaos and it was not until the dust settled shortly after Kelemvor ascended that other gods started losing patience with the newbies.
Before 1358 (The Time of Troubles) there was no special system in place before gods needed no worshipers to thrive. They had clerics to promote their agendas or use as pawns in their struggles against rivals, but could largely do whatever the heck they wanted. The need to coerce worship for survival was nonexistent. It was Bane and Myrkul overstepping their bounds and the ensuing carnage caused by the Time of Troubles that made Ao decide the gods were being neglectful of their followers. He decreed they were all dependent on their followers from that point forward.
Cyric held the portfolio and did nothing special over it. He reveled in his power and used it to terrify people. Maybe Cyric would have run into issues eventually; except he was so paranoid and obsessed with gaining an edge over Mystra he eventually lost portfolios to Kelemvor and Iyatchu Xvim. In any case, the brief decade in which he held the office was full of chaos and it was not until the dust settled shortly after Kelemvor ascended that other gods started losing patience with the newbies.
Before 1358 (The Time of Troubles) there was no special system in place before gods needed no worshipers to thrive. They had clerics to promote their agendas or use as pawns in their struggles against rivals, but could largely do whatever the heck they wanted. The need to coerce worship for survival was nonexistent. It was Bane and Myrkul overstepping their bounds and the ensuing carnage caused by the Time of Troubles that made Ao decide the gods were being neglectful of their followers. He decreed they were all dependent on their followers from that point forward.
