Well, now I would like to know your opinion.
This is mine.
For
years, people have spoken about "the new BG2", meaning that BG2 is the
best RPG ever so that any other RPG should try to follow its steps. But
with all these "new BG2" games, I never found a game good half of BG2... till NWN2.
I bought NWN as soon as it came to shops in Italy, waited for 2 months since I needed a better computer to enjoy the game smoothly and then... I found it extremely boring.
I was so shocked by this fact that when I got NWN2 for my birthday I left it on my shelf for 3 years. Really, 3 years. Sure, I needed again a new computer, but also once I got it, I didn't have the idea of installing and playing it, due to my bad experience with the first NWN. At the end, I installed it just for trying my new hardware and... the game is so wonderful I can say that, for me, is the real new BG2, the game I was waiting for 12 long years. (not tried DA:O yet, hope it would be of the same quality!)
So I would like to know what makes, in your opinion, a game "good" or "bad".
In my opinion, a game is good when:
1) not too much fighting... I mean, seriously, if I want a hack&slash or a FPS, I buy a H&S or a FPS! [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie] I cannot
suffer those gigantic dungeons with tons of monsters one after another
without any reason. Or even worse, when you have to kill everyone in a
map, just to run to the following map where you have to kill everyone
again! (like in the Ice Wind Dale series)
2) a party: I
love having companions with me, it makes the game more realistic (who
of you would dare wandering around the fantasy dangerous world, all
alone?) and it allows the player to use a lot of skills that a single PC
cannot have.
3) tons of NPCs interactions: I am speaking about companions. If I can speak a lot with them (and they can speak a lot with me), I am able to know them, I can join their adventures and have a look in their life, it seems that they aren't just pixels on a screen, but real people.
4) building relationship with companions: friendships and romances, just to make the things more realistic. I think this is the base in whatever RPG.
5) a variety of quests in order to use all the abilities of NPCs and PCs. I really like quests where I can just talk, instead of going around killing everything I meet.
6) different choices led to different conclusions. In this way we could really feel that our actions influence the world around us.
so these are my points. Which are yours?
What makes a game successful?
Débuté par
Vaalyah
, août 17 2010 09:21
Retour en haut
#2
Posté 18 août 2010 - 01:46
Dorateen
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- 477 messages
1. A game that captures the "spirit" of Pen and Paper Dungeons & Dragons. Less cinematic, more rules-based and text driven.
2. Party based adventure with the ability to create your own party. Joinable NPCs are fine, so long as they understand they are joining the team, not the other way around.
3. Varied and interesting dungeons to explore, filled with traps and puzzles and other nasty surpises.
4. Good, tactical combat. Difficult fights where one or more party-members go down. And no popping up automatically after combat. A turn-based system is preferred, but otherwise real time with pause is OK. Autopause is even better.
5. A linear adventure is fine, but the more freedom to explore, the better. Wilderness areas and cities to contrast the dungeon areas.
Harumph!
2. Party based adventure with the ability to create your own party. Joinable NPCs are fine, so long as they understand they are joining the team, not the other way around.
3. Varied and interesting dungeons to explore, filled with traps and puzzles and other nasty surpises.
4. Good, tactical combat. Difficult fights where one or more party-members go down. And no popping up automatically after combat. A turn-based system is preferred, but otherwise real time with pause is OK. Autopause is even better.
5. A linear adventure is fine, but the more freedom to explore, the better. Wilderness areas and cities to contrast the dungeon areas.
Harumph!
#3
Posté 18 août 2010 - 02:01
Vaalyah
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Lol. it seems to me we like almost opposite types of games!
#4
Posté 18 août 2010 - 02:23
Dorateen
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Vaalyah wrote...
Lol. it seems to me we like almost opposite types of games!
And this is why NWN2 is superior to other current cRPGs. That it supports multiple preferences for play styles.
Harumph!
#5
Posté 18 août 2010 - 05:45
dunniteowl
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What Makes a Game Successful?
From a gamer's standpoint, it's got to have enough wide ranging appeal to sell enough to allow me to get hold of it.
Marketing helps. If I hadn't come to NWN forums asking for help 5 years ago, I wouldn't have known about NWN2 until I might have randomly seen it on store shelves.
From a playing perspective (which you seem to be heading towards) : For those of you familiar with my posting style, there is the short answer list at the bottom if you don't wish to read the full Monty Haul.
1) Gotta have options.
I like the ability to be able to select and equip my character(s) not only as appropriate to their profession and ability, but also to my ideal of how they should look. This means that I should be able to make them look and appear as if they were truly unique individuals. I can live without this, but this would be a real boon as far as I am concerned. Honestly, I feel I have a bit more variety of character customization, relatively speaking, with SSIs Gold Box Engine Sprites than I do with NWN/2's initial Character customization selections.
Additionally, I don't need great animations, but if you're going to do them, do them well and do them right. Otherwise, don't waste my time making graphics card selection an issue for me. Same goes for models. Looking good is great, especially according to Fernando (dah ling, you look ... ... Mah ... vahlus!) Optimize, please. I would honestly be happier with dozens to scores of enemies on screen that didn't look super duper High Rez, if they all moved right and flowed with the game's encounters appropriately.
2) Make me believe.
I know it's make believe. I think we all do. That said, make me believe that what I am doing is important. Make me believe that I am not just a fricking puppet in a show where I have no control whatsoever. I'm not saying absolutely give me that control -- I'll happily settle for the illusion of that control with believeable dialogue, villains that don't monologue at every opportunity, clues that seem to make no sense until you meet a scholar, another poor unfortunate victim, or another person who's had dealings with these folks before to fill in the gaps.
Make me believe that my characters are successful through the use of their skills and abilities and not my ability to rapidly click away at every single thing on screen. Make me believe that my tracking and survival skills are more than additional blips on the radar screen of an immovable minimap. Make me believe that my Dwarven character can sense which direction we're headed underground, including the off mention of, "Hmm, this looks level, but I'd swear we're getting deeper." Make me believe that if my torches run out, I'd better have something else to help me steer my way in the dark. Make me believe that having a coil of rope really is useful.
3) Give me hard choices.
I don't mean impossible choices (and this is fantasy after all) I mean choices that are tough, though necessary. Do I really need that nice looking sword I just found, or are the gold, silver and gems more important? Do I trust this guy's story about being mistreated by his Lord and go off on a side quest to, 'teach that evil nasty Duke a lesson?' And how do I know? Make it hard to tell who is being truthful with me at times. Make it clear that sometimes, I can save the poor unfortunates or I can grab the loot, but not both.
Make skills and class selection meaningful. If a PrC exists for the game, then make the other factors for having to choose such a Prestige class, in fact, prestigious. In other words, don't just pop it up on the character level up screen for me, make me work for it -- earn it. Isn't there a reason they're called Prestige classes? I always figured it meant you couldn't just take a 'splash' of this or that. Once a RDD, you are now on a path, ditto for Shadow Dancer or Red Wizard. In other words, I should be invited by an order or a group to join them and I have to have all the requisites BEFORE I can even be invited. Once I accept, I'm going to really get screwed over by my new buddies if I switch paths after that. Like I said, Hard Choices.
4) I like to fight, let me at 'em!
But that doesn't mean I only want to fight. What I mean is that I should always have the choice, even if doing so is pretty much pointless, futile and a guranteed trip to the Fugue Plane. Again, though, there should be some choices, occasionally hard ones, to make when it comes to fighting. I hate scaled combat. Hate is a strong word, but in this case, I'm not sure it's strong enough. If I fight a Dragon, it should be pretty tough to do and certainly not something you'd lightly consider doing in the first place and never all on your ownsome.
By the same token, I do like being a relatively high level character and 'wading in' a horde of goblins, orcs, kobolds. I want to see bodies falling like staves of wheat before me, bodies flying and burning, creatures failing their MORALE (I hate it when people spell it Moral, as that's ethical, not a matter of courage) checks and fleeing every which way in a panicked rout. I'm a force to be reckoned with by creatures of lesser merit, and I will never accept that goblins will ever be strong, smart or focused enough to be something to take on a 5th level fighter EVER in single combat. EVER. Well, okay, maybe the goblin King and possibly his guard, but not on their own unaided. Not their style.
5) I thought this was a mystery to be solved?
Not a stupid puzzle quest to open a door. Sheesh. And traps? Come on, I want arrows flying through slots in the walls, activated by little stone pressure plates in several different places. I hate this whole abstracted "Area" you can disarm by kneeling next to it and fiddling about a few seconds. Seriously. What kind of trap is it that can be disarmed from any side, any angle and if your skill is high enough something you can recover to use later?
I want pendulums of flashing steel to swing across my path, ready to slice me in half, Rooms with closing doors and lowering ceilings, full of bloody spikes. Give me pits, moats, and precipices, giant creatures as guardians and make me figure out how to get to that loot, victim or exit with most of my parts still working.
6) Make it Easy to Understand and Use, not Easy to Play.
Good text descriptions when you examine things. Well balanced sounds, visuals and dialog. Give me cues and clues in almost everything I see, hear or do. But, come on, don't make it so dang obvious all the time. I press a single key (or simply mouse over something) and I can highlight every object with a glowing halo that immediately tells me, "Hey! This is useable -- and most likely important, too!" Yawn.
Give me the option to look at everything and if there's really nothing special about this item, then would be the appropriate time to intone, "There is nothing special about this item/object." Or when I mouse over with my little magnifying glass icon, nothing happens, no description comes up and no other options come up either.
When I open my inventory, I want to know, pretty much at a glance, what I'm looking at. I don't care if they're pretty model views or 2d icons only. I just want to be able to tell a dagger from a short sword from a Scottish Claidmorgh, please. A potion from a vial and arrows from bolts without squinting or having to examine each one every time to make sure I'm picking the things I mean to be picking.
If I don't understand a rule, a choice selection for skills, spells, etc, then allow me to click on it and get a help explanation of it. Maybe add just a little question mark option that tells me the basics of what I am doing in a contextually sensitive manner. "When selecting Skills, make sure that you are taking class related ones to enhance your class abilities even more. Taking a non class related Skill uses more skill points and takes longer to bring to a really useful level for Cross class Skills," sort of like that.
And don't confuse, Not Easy to Play with Hard to Do. When I say not easy to play, I mean I don't want to be able to just breeze through the game in a matter of hours with no effort whatsoever on my part. In other words, make sure that there is a challenge there that is Game Related, not Controls and Interface related. A game can be challenging due to poorly designed interfaces, arcane use of symbols and icons, poor positions of GUIs, etc. or it can be hard, because the challenge is in the playing of the game. Solving riddles, choosing tactics in combat, ensuring your characters have the necessary skills, talents and experience necessary to best the encounters they come across, etc. If it's too easy, I'm gonna get bored.
I saw my stepson do this. He'd get a game, then he'd slap in the Gameshark and give himself God like Awesome Powers and blast through a $50-70 game on his PS2 or Gamecube in a matter of a couple of hours. And then, once beaten so rapidly, no further interest was there. The game resell store loved him. You gotta resell like 4 games to be able to buy a new one for only 15 bucks, each of which they'll resell for over 35 dollars.
So don't make it easy by giving me uber weapons, super simple magic deus ex machina or god like powers, be they physical, magical or in the form of some mad ability to escape my own stupidity with invincibility, or a single blow killing weapon that never misses.
Those are what would make a successful game to me. You manage those things and there will be inherent replayability (because I can choose different things to do next time, and they'll send me down another path, different from the first) as well as a visual look and feel that will not demean my playing experience on the whole.
So there you go:
1) Gotta have options.
2) Make me believe.
3) Give me hard choices.
4) I like to fight, let me at 'em!
5) I thought this was a mystery to be solved?
6) Make it Easy to Understand and Use, not Easy to Play.
best regards,
dunniteowl
From a gamer's standpoint, it's got to have enough wide ranging appeal to sell enough to allow me to get hold of it.
Marketing helps. If I hadn't come to NWN forums asking for help 5 years ago, I wouldn't have known about NWN2 until I might have randomly seen it on store shelves.
From a playing perspective (which you seem to be heading towards) : For those of you familiar with my posting style, there is the short answer list at the bottom if you don't wish to read the full Monty Haul.
1) Gotta have options.
I like the ability to be able to select and equip my character(s) not only as appropriate to their profession and ability, but also to my ideal of how they should look. This means that I should be able to make them look and appear as if they were truly unique individuals. I can live without this, but this would be a real boon as far as I am concerned. Honestly, I feel I have a bit more variety of character customization, relatively speaking, with SSIs Gold Box Engine Sprites than I do with NWN/2's initial Character customization selections.
Additionally, I don't need great animations, but if you're going to do them, do them well and do them right. Otherwise, don't waste my time making graphics card selection an issue for me. Same goes for models. Looking good is great, especially according to Fernando (dah ling, you look ... ... Mah ... vahlus!) Optimize, please. I would honestly be happier with dozens to scores of enemies on screen that didn't look super duper High Rez, if they all moved right and flowed with the game's encounters appropriately.
2) Make me believe.
I know it's make believe. I think we all do. That said, make me believe that what I am doing is important. Make me believe that I am not just a fricking puppet in a show where I have no control whatsoever. I'm not saying absolutely give me that control -- I'll happily settle for the illusion of that control with believeable dialogue, villains that don't monologue at every opportunity, clues that seem to make no sense until you meet a scholar, another poor unfortunate victim, or another person who's had dealings with these folks before to fill in the gaps.
Make me believe that my characters are successful through the use of their skills and abilities and not my ability to rapidly click away at every single thing on screen. Make me believe that my tracking and survival skills are more than additional blips on the radar screen of an immovable minimap. Make me believe that my Dwarven character can sense which direction we're headed underground, including the off mention of, "Hmm, this looks level, but I'd swear we're getting deeper." Make me believe that if my torches run out, I'd better have something else to help me steer my way in the dark. Make me believe that having a coil of rope really is useful.
3) Give me hard choices.
I don't mean impossible choices (and this is fantasy after all) I mean choices that are tough, though necessary. Do I really need that nice looking sword I just found, or are the gold, silver and gems more important? Do I trust this guy's story about being mistreated by his Lord and go off on a side quest to, 'teach that evil nasty Duke a lesson?' And how do I know? Make it hard to tell who is being truthful with me at times. Make it clear that sometimes, I can save the poor unfortunates or I can grab the loot, but not both.
Make skills and class selection meaningful. If a PrC exists for the game, then make the other factors for having to choose such a Prestige class, in fact, prestigious. In other words, don't just pop it up on the character level up screen for me, make me work for it -- earn it. Isn't there a reason they're called Prestige classes? I always figured it meant you couldn't just take a 'splash' of this or that. Once a RDD, you are now on a path, ditto for Shadow Dancer or Red Wizard. In other words, I should be invited by an order or a group to join them and I have to have all the requisites BEFORE I can even be invited. Once I accept, I'm going to really get screwed over by my new buddies if I switch paths after that. Like I said, Hard Choices.
4) I like to fight, let me at 'em!
But that doesn't mean I only want to fight. What I mean is that I should always have the choice, even if doing so is pretty much pointless, futile and a guranteed trip to the Fugue Plane. Again, though, there should be some choices, occasionally hard ones, to make when it comes to fighting. I hate scaled combat. Hate is a strong word, but in this case, I'm not sure it's strong enough. If I fight a Dragon, it should be pretty tough to do and certainly not something you'd lightly consider doing in the first place and never all on your ownsome.
By the same token, I do like being a relatively high level character and 'wading in' a horde of goblins, orcs, kobolds. I want to see bodies falling like staves of wheat before me, bodies flying and burning, creatures failing their MORALE (I hate it when people spell it Moral, as that's ethical, not a matter of courage) checks and fleeing every which way in a panicked rout. I'm a force to be reckoned with by creatures of lesser merit, and I will never accept that goblins will ever be strong, smart or focused enough to be something to take on a 5th level fighter EVER in single combat. EVER. Well, okay, maybe the goblin King and possibly his guard, but not on their own unaided. Not their style.
5) I thought this was a mystery to be solved?
Not a stupid puzzle quest to open a door. Sheesh. And traps? Come on, I want arrows flying through slots in the walls, activated by little stone pressure plates in several different places. I hate this whole abstracted "Area" you can disarm by kneeling next to it and fiddling about a few seconds. Seriously. What kind of trap is it that can be disarmed from any side, any angle and if your skill is high enough something you can recover to use later?
I want pendulums of flashing steel to swing across my path, ready to slice me in half, Rooms with closing doors and lowering ceilings, full of bloody spikes. Give me pits, moats, and precipices, giant creatures as guardians and make me figure out how to get to that loot, victim or exit with most of my parts still working.
6) Make it Easy to Understand and Use, not Easy to Play.
Good text descriptions when you examine things. Well balanced sounds, visuals and dialog. Give me cues and clues in almost everything I see, hear or do. But, come on, don't make it so dang obvious all the time. I press a single key (or simply mouse over something) and I can highlight every object with a glowing halo that immediately tells me, "Hey! This is useable -- and most likely important, too!" Yawn.
Give me the option to look at everything and if there's really nothing special about this item, then would be the appropriate time to intone, "There is nothing special about this item/object." Or when I mouse over with my little magnifying glass icon, nothing happens, no description comes up and no other options come up either.
When I open my inventory, I want to know, pretty much at a glance, what I'm looking at. I don't care if they're pretty model views or 2d icons only. I just want to be able to tell a dagger from a short sword from a Scottish Claidmorgh, please. A potion from a vial and arrows from bolts without squinting or having to examine each one every time to make sure I'm picking the things I mean to be picking.
If I don't understand a rule, a choice selection for skills, spells, etc, then allow me to click on it and get a help explanation of it. Maybe add just a little question mark option that tells me the basics of what I am doing in a contextually sensitive manner. "When selecting Skills, make sure that you are taking class related ones to enhance your class abilities even more. Taking a non class related Skill uses more skill points and takes longer to bring to a really useful level for Cross class Skills," sort of like that.
And don't confuse, Not Easy to Play with Hard to Do. When I say not easy to play, I mean I don't want to be able to just breeze through the game in a matter of hours with no effort whatsoever on my part. In other words, make sure that there is a challenge there that is Game Related, not Controls and Interface related. A game can be challenging due to poorly designed interfaces, arcane use of symbols and icons, poor positions of GUIs, etc. or it can be hard, because the challenge is in the playing of the game. Solving riddles, choosing tactics in combat, ensuring your characters have the necessary skills, talents and experience necessary to best the encounters they come across, etc. If it's too easy, I'm gonna get bored.
I saw my stepson do this. He'd get a game, then he'd slap in the Gameshark and give himself God like Awesome Powers and blast through a $50-70 game on his PS2 or Gamecube in a matter of a couple of hours. And then, once beaten so rapidly, no further interest was there. The game resell store loved him. You gotta resell like 4 games to be able to buy a new one for only 15 bucks, each of which they'll resell for over 35 dollars.
So don't make it easy by giving me uber weapons, super simple magic deus ex machina or god like powers, be they physical, magical or in the form of some mad ability to escape my own stupidity with invincibility, or a single blow killing weapon that never misses.
Those are what would make a successful game to me. You manage those things and there will be inherent replayability (because I can choose different things to do next time, and they'll send me down another path, different from the first) as well as a visual look and feel that will not demean my playing experience on the whole.
So there you go:
1) Gotta have options.
2) Make me believe.
3) Give me hard choices.
4) I like to fight, let me at 'em!
5) I thought this was a mystery to be solved?
6) Make it Easy to Understand and Use, not Easy to Play.
best regards,
dunniteowl
#6
Posté 18 août 2010 - 08:40
Vaalyah
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- 953 messages
Well, what can I say? And I was thinking I was the one who write too much :-D
1) you're right. When I had to create my PC I got disconcerted... just 3 or 4 face meshes, each uglier that the previous one... Luckily, at that point, I had already discovered the vault. ie: a very good job has been done with Aion On Line, where you can really customize each aspect of your PC. About equipment, yes, I think it is important too, but maybe, since any RPG I played on the computer has that, I don't even remember to point out that! I would have liked a bit more "customization" on armours and weapons. Due to her high Dex bonus, my PC has to wear just stuffed armour (don't know which is the right word in English, hope you can understand)... and they're SO ugly! In pen&paper game I wear a magic armour with the same scores of a stuffed one, but that looks extremely prettier :-D so, why in the game, I cannot choose a stuffed armour that looks a bit better? o_O
2) I think you are saying you want a decent and credibly plot... and with abilities, skills and items
realistically used in the game
3) big hug for this point!
4) well, as I stated before, I DON'T like to fight. Or better, I like to fight for short times when the situation requires it. Let's get real: in you are a real person, you can't keep fighting for hours and cleaning completely an entire dungeon needs HOURS. So in my opinion, killing an entire mountain of goblins (no spoilers allowed) is gruelling! So why am I supposed to do that in a game?
5) about this, a question... who ever had used the crafting traps ability in the OC??? I usually never put a single point of ability when I level up! For none of the companions too! completely useless!
6) in my opinion, seeing the things I can interact too is useful. In BG I spent hours trying to locate the place where I have to put the item, so not playing time, just searching with the mouse time. I think it is useful to see the things I can interact with, but I think that solving puzzles don't have to be just "click and choose the option different from "leave the item there" "...
From the inventory, I don't want to add anything... I'll be far worse than you in describing all the problems I have with it!
The last part of your 6th point is saying you don't want games for casual-gamers?
I also like to add the possibility to mod the game, for granting more replayability. If a big community creates a lot of mods, then you can customize the game and also add full new parts to it!
1) you're right. When I had to create my PC I got disconcerted... just 3 or 4 face meshes, each uglier that the previous one... Luckily, at that point, I had already discovered the vault. ie: a very good job has been done with Aion On Line, where you can really customize each aspect of your PC. About equipment, yes, I think it is important too, but maybe, since any RPG I played on the computer has that, I don't even remember to point out that! I would have liked a bit more "customization" on armours and weapons. Due to her high Dex bonus, my PC has to wear just stuffed armour (don't know which is the right word in English, hope you can understand)... and they're SO ugly! In pen&paper game I wear a magic armour with the same scores of a stuffed one, but that looks extremely prettier :-D so, why in the game, I cannot choose a stuffed armour that looks a bit better? o_O
2) I think you are saying you want a decent and credibly plot... and with abilities, skills and items
realistically used in the game
3) big hug for this point!
4) well, as I stated before, I DON'T like to fight. Or better, I like to fight for short times when the situation requires it. Let's get real: in you are a real person, you can't keep fighting for hours and cleaning completely an entire dungeon needs HOURS. So in my opinion, killing an entire mountain of goblins (no spoilers allowed) is gruelling! So why am I supposed to do that in a game?
5) about this, a question... who ever had used the crafting traps ability in the OC??? I usually never put a single point of ability when I level up! For none of the companions too! completely useless!
6) in my opinion, seeing the things I can interact too is useful. In BG I spent hours trying to locate the place where I have to put the item, so not playing time, just searching with the mouse time. I think it is useful to see the things I can interact with, but I think that solving puzzles don't have to be just "click and choose the option different from "leave the item there" "...
From the inventory, I don't want to add anything... I'll be far worse than you in describing all the problems I have with it!
The last part of your 6th point is saying you don't want games for casual-gamers?
I also like to add the possibility to mod the game, for granting more replayability. If a big community creates a lot of mods, then you can customize the game and also add full new parts to it!
#7
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:51
dunniteowl
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- Members
- 1 559 messages
I think you mean Padded armor.
On point 4: The one entitled, "I like to fight, let me at 'em"
What I mean by this is that combat should make sense according to your level, not necessarily that you should have to fight all the time. And I did say that I should be allowed to fight (some folks use the "Don't force it, get a bigger hammer" combat method) and that I should also be allowed to find other ways to get the job or task done. Most cRPGs are way too dependant upon the combat centric model.
Again, it boils down to story vs action.
I referred to scaled combat. That's where, no matter what level your group/character is, any encounter is "scaled" to only be about as tough as you/your party is. Totally worthless in my book. There are times when you meet a situation and the right thing to do is pee in your pants and run away. The dragon is a good example. Or entering into a mummy's crypt. A vampire lord. These should always be difficult and scary propositions for the average character without some aids, reinforcement and special tactics at hand.
In a linear story, that's not as big a deal. In a more open situation, unscaled combat means you can run into something that can totally wipe the floor with you/your party. That's as it should be. Just because you're a level 12 Paladin with a level 10 mage in your party doesn't mean you should just walk boldy into any situation.
On Point 6, titled: Make it Easy to Use, not Easy to Play
I happen to hold the view that cRPGs and Casual gaming do not necessarily go hand in hand. That said, if by casual gamer, someone means a person who isn't going to spend the time it takes to get very familiar with the wide range of features, abilities, skills, spells, actions and situations that can come up in an RPG situation, then my answer would be, "No," If, by casual gamer it is meant that they only devote a small amount of time per instance to playing and they don't get too deeply vested, then sure, they can still play.
They just shouldn't expect to blow through the game in two or three sittings of a couple hours each. If the controls are designed well. If the information, both from the user interface and the game required descriptions, directions, and such is designed well. Then even casual gamers should be able to enjoy the game and enjoy it for far longer than usual. You don't (and shouldn't) need to be a D&D aficionado or expert to play such games as these, but, by the same token, this ain't Tetris or Space Invaders, either. It's gonna take some time to get experienced enough to adventure to any degree.
If a player needs it to be easier to play, then they should have a setting, like in Duke Nukem, that allows them to be in, "Please don't hurt me," mode, where you cannot be harmed, don't run out of ammo, etc. But it should not be a situation where, for most experienced players, putting it on Hard Core D&D Rules means it's only marginally more difficult to play. Hard Core Rules are just that, Hard Core. You should be seriously challenged, even as an experienced gaming veteran on that setting and, according to many many reports (even some from folks who've never played these sorts of games before) the Hard Core setting isn't all that hard to deal with.
Think about it like this: If you pay $50.00 or 50 monetary units of whatever country's measure (or more) to buy the game, are you going to be getting more value by spending longer to play it, or less value? If you buy this game and it is designed to hand hold you throughout it, make it easy to do and not seriously challenging, are you going to gain a sense of accomplishment when you're done?
I see hours to play (not because I don't get what I'm doing, mind you, but because there's a long story related adventure to play that isn't just a walk in the park for anyone) versus completion of the game as overall value added to my gaming dollar (or Euro, yen, ruble, etc.) It shouldn't take me longer because it's poorly designed or this large rambling series of totally unconnected events. It should take me longer because it requires of me to actually think about what I'm doing.
Did I use the right spells? Did I bring the right gear and companions? Am I overlooking something? How do I solve this puzzle? How do I get past the dragon without getting eaten?
These are solveable situations that shouldn't require a simple GOD-like power or device and they certainly shouldn't be something as simple as being able to boldly breeze by them with combat or because a character has a bag full of scrolls that would kill a donkey if loaded onto it.
That's what I mean. If this puts the casual gamer off his or her feed, then I am okay with that. RPG gaming in computer form has always been a niche market. A successful one, mind you, and if it has to stay that way to be appropriately designed, then I say, "So be it."
The folks who have a long and rich history, as I and many others do, of playing cRPGs should be rewarded for our loyalty and experience Real World wise by being challenged and listened to when it comes to design. Now if the marketing and design boys want to bring in more folks to make things more profitable, great -- make them do the leg work, and bring it with better documentation, more help related functions in-game that allow a new player to get their legs under them.
What we tend to get instead, though, is the newer casual gamer gets catered to and we, the more experienced and dedicated fan base of this genre, instead, get our legs chopped off at the knees with all the gimping done to the game to generate more gamer interest (which equals more money, I get it.) Instead, designers and marketers should play to the challenge and play to the idea that gamers can be expected to have to dig deeper and reach for the brass ring, not just have it handed to them.
When something is challenging, the reward for accomplishment is greater on a personal level. When games like this are done well and done properly (in terms of story and appropriate challenge) the player base will, ultimately, respond and rise to the occasion.
I guess the difference is that instead of dismissing the casual gamer as not interested in challenge, I feel that the casual gamer would benefit from it, provided that the design of the game can suck them in, in the first place. That means that they can sort of learn as they go, whereas more experienced gamers can simply rock forward, rising to the challenge in that game without having to slide up the scale of challenge just to make it playable for them.
And no, there isn't a soul out there who can out word me -- at least I don't think so. I haven't met anyone yet that can do that naturally. And that's not necessarily a brag. I know I'm wordy. I know everyone else knows it too. I have just never let it stop me.
best regards all,
dunniteowl
On point 4: The one entitled, "I like to fight, let me at 'em"
What I mean by this is that combat should make sense according to your level, not necessarily that you should have to fight all the time. And I did say that I should be allowed to fight (some folks use the "Don't force it, get a bigger hammer" combat method) and that I should also be allowed to find other ways to get the job or task done. Most cRPGs are way too dependant upon the combat centric model.
Again, it boils down to story vs action.
I referred to scaled combat. That's where, no matter what level your group/character is, any encounter is "scaled" to only be about as tough as you/your party is. Totally worthless in my book. There are times when you meet a situation and the right thing to do is pee in your pants and run away. The dragon is a good example. Or entering into a mummy's crypt. A vampire lord. These should always be difficult and scary propositions for the average character without some aids, reinforcement and special tactics at hand.
In a linear story, that's not as big a deal. In a more open situation, unscaled combat means you can run into something that can totally wipe the floor with you/your party. That's as it should be. Just because you're a level 12 Paladin with a level 10 mage in your party doesn't mean you should just walk boldy into any situation.
On Point 6, titled: Make it Easy to Use, not Easy to Play
I happen to hold the view that cRPGs and Casual gaming do not necessarily go hand in hand. That said, if by casual gamer, someone means a person who isn't going to spend the time it takes to get very familiar with the wide range of features, abilities, skills, spells, actions and situations that can come up in an RPG situation, then my answer would be, "No," If, by casual gamer it is meant that they only devote a small amount of time per instance to playing and they don't get too deeply vested, then sure, they can still play.
They just shouldn't expect to blow through the game in two or three sittings of a couple hours each. If the controls are designed well. If the information, both from the user interface and the game required descriptions, directions, and such is designed well. Then even casual gamers should be able to enjoy the game and enjoy it for far longer than usual. You don't (and shouldn't) need to be a D&D aficionado or expert to play such games as these, but, by the same token, this ain't Tetris or Space Invaders, either. It's gonna take some time to get experienced enough to adventure to any degree.
If a player needs it to be easier to play, then they should have a setting, like in Duke Nukem, that allows them to be in, "Please don't hurt me," mode, where you cannot be harmed, don't run out of ammo, etc. But it should not be a situation where, for most experienced players, putting it on Hard Core D&D Rules means it's only marginally more difficult to play. Hard Core Rules are just that, Hard Core. You should be seriously challenged, even as an experienced gaming veteran on that setting and, according to many many reports (even some from folks who've never played these sorts of games before) the Hard Core setting isn't all that hard to deal with.
Think about it like this: If you pay $50.00 or 50 monetary units of whatever country's measure (or more) to buy the game, are you going to be getting more value by spending longer to play it, or less value? If you buy this game and it is designed to hand hold you throughout it, make it easy to do and not seriously challenging, are you going to gain a sense of accomplishment when you're done?
I see hours to play (not because I don't get what I'm doing, mind you, but because there's a long story related adventure to play that isn't just a walk in the park for anyone) versus completion of the game as overall value added to my gaming dollar (or Euro, yen, ruble, etc.) It shouldn't take me longer because it's poorly designed or this large rambling series of totally unconnected events. It should take me longer because it requires of me to actually think about what I'm doing.
Did I use the right spells? Did I bring the right gear and companions? Am I overlooking something? How do I solve this puzzle? How do I get past the dragon without getting eaten?
These are solveable situations that shouldn't require a simple GOD-like power or device and they certainly shouldn't be something as simple as being able to boldly breeze by them with combat or because a character has a bag full of scrolls that would kill a donkey if loaded onto it.
That's what I mean. If this puts the casual gamer off his or her feed, then I am okay with that. RPG gaming in computer form has always been a niche market. A successful one, mind you, and if it has to stay that way to be appropriately designed, then I say, "So be it."
The folks who have a long and rich history, as I and many others do, of playing cRPGs should be rewarded for our loyalty and experience Real World wise by being challenged and listened to when it comes to design. Now if the marketing and design boys want to bring in more folks to make things more profitable, great -- make them do the leg work, and bring it with better documentation, more help related functions in-game that allow a new player to get their legs under them.
What we tend to get instead, though, is the newer casual gamer gets catered to and we, the more experienced and dedicated fan base of this genre, instead, get our legs chopped off at the knees with all the gimping done to the game to generate more gamer interest (which equals more money, I get it.) Instead, designers and marketers should play to the challenge and play to the idea that gamers can be expected to have to dig deeper and reach for the brass ring, not just have it handed to them.
When something is challenging, the reward for accomplishment is greater on a personal level. When games like this are done well and done properly (in terms of story and appropriate challenge) the player base will, ultimately, respond and rise to the occasion.
I guess the difference is that instead of dismissing the casual gamer as not interested in challenge, I feel that the casual gamer would benefit from it, provided that the design of the game can suck them in, in the first place. That means that they can sort of learn as they go, whereas more experienced gamers can simply rock forward, rising to the challenge in that game without having to slide up the scale of challenge just to make it playable for them.
And no, there isn't a soul out there who can out word me -- at least I don't think so. I haven't met anyone yet that can do that naturally. And that's not necessarily a brag. I know I'm wordy. I know everyone else knows it too. I have just never let it stop me.
best regards all,
dunniteowl
#8
Posté 19 août 2010 - 11:18
Vaalyah
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Padded? Ok, thanks, I am referring to the one made of clothes!
4) ok, I've got your point and I think we can easily agree on that. In pen&paper, one of my DM tends to present situations like this, with big bad monsters against 6th level PCs... Sure, I usually run away :-D
Maybe a good idea would be putting a storyline scaled over the level, plus some open area where you can find whatever things (as in BG, you have of course the main plot, but also big area to explore with everything inside).
6) one of the thing I hate in a game is when commands and controls are completely not-intuitive. The interface with the player must be comfortable, of course, but the game itself must give to me a good amount of brain cells work! I don't want a game that I can finish in 3 or 5 hours... I want to spend entire weeks over it, befriend with NPCs, being fond of the places I visit, remember the background musics... that is a game. The other, well, there are even too much internet sites with flash game you can finish in half a hour!
Are you speaking about Hard Core rules meaning combat? Because for plot, RPG and puzzles, I don't think hard core rules are so important...
However, you are saying that RPG is a niche market. True, but not so niche... Have you read how many copies NWN2 or DAO have been sold? WOW is the most crowded persistent world and it is an RPG (too much fighting for my tastes, but... ehi!). Each time an RPG comes out in the market, the result is a lot of money for whom has done it. So, why companies simply don't ask to players to fill a form with their ideas for the next RPG? Many companies that produces many different things (from cell phones to selling energy) do that... That could be an interesting idea to discover the tastes of players...
Moreover, I don't know the situation where you live, but here, except for RPG-lovers, the causal gamers simply download the game illegally by the net, just to try it and then erase it from the HD after few hours. But the RPG-lovers, after a bad experience, are no longer buying game by that company any more! (I didn't like NWN, so I didn't buy the expansions and I have NWN2 just because a friend has bought it for my birthday... then I immediately went to buy MotB... but they risked to loose a buyer [me] due to the ugliness of NWN)
PS: I am not wordy as you just because this is not my mother language and I have to spent a lot of time to make my English understandable :-P
4) ok, I've got your point and I think we can easily agree on that. In pen&paper, one of my DM tends to present situations like this, with big bad monsters against 6th level PCs... Sure, I usually run away :-D
Maybe a good idea would be putting a storyline scaled over the level, plus some open area where you can find whatever things (as in BG, you have of course the main plot, but also big area to explore with everything inside).
6) one of the thing I hate in a game is when commands and controls are completely not-intuitive. The interface with the player must be comfortable, of course, but the game itself must give to me a good amount of brain cells work! I don't want a game that I can finish in 3 or 5 hours... I want to spend entire weeks over it, befriend with NPCs, being fond of the places I visit, remember the background musics... that is a game. The other, well, there are even too much internet sites with flash game you can finish in half a hour!
Are you speaking about Hard Core rules meaning combat? Because for plot, RPG and puzzles, I don't think hard core rules are so important...
However, you are saying that RPG is a niche market. True, but not so niche... Have you read how many copies NWN2 or DAO have been sold? WOW is the most crowded persistent world and it is an RPG (too much fighting for my tastes, but... ehi!). Each time an RPG comes out in the market, the result is a lot of money for whom has done it. So, why companies simply don't ask to players to fill a form with their ideas for the next RPG? Many companies that produces many different things (from cell phones to selling energy) do that... That could be an interesting idea to discover the tastes of players...
Moreover, I don't know the situation where you live, but here, except for RPG-lovers, the causal gamers simply download the game illegally by the net, just to try it and then erase it from the HD after few hours. But the RPG-lovers, after a bad experience, are no longer buying game by that company any more! (I didn't like NWN, so I didn't buy the expansions and I have NWN2 just because a friend has bought it for my birthday... then I immediately went to buy MotB... but they risked to loose a buyer [me] due to the ugliness of NWN)
PS: I am not wordy as you just because this is not my mother language and I have to spent a lot of time to make my English understandable :-P
#9
Posté 19 août 2010 - 11:57
The Fred
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I agree with a lot of this, but to my mind there's a distinction between "successful" as a product and "successful" in terms of my own enjoyment.
#10
Posté 19 août 2010 - 01:53
dunniteowl
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Agreed, The Fred, which is why, in my first post, I make that distinction immediately.
And Yes, Vaalyah, Hard Core Rules affect pretty much only combat. Then again, in this case, that's most of what you're going to be doing. NWN2, as much as it opens the doors to more than combat, is still a VERY combat heavy game. I'd say about 70% of the game's plot rests directly on the combat being the main filler for moving things forward.
dunniteowl
And Yes, Vaalyah, Hard Core Rules affect pretty much only combat. Then again, in this case, that's most of what you're going to be doing. NWN2, as much as it opens the doors to more than combat, is still a VERY combat heavy game. I'd say about 70% of the game's plot rests directly on the combat being the main filler for moving things forward.
dunniteowl
#11
Posté 19 août 2010 - 04:00
Vaalyah
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Sure, and that's the reason I still feel there is too much combat in the game! :-D
I remember in the first NWN, the only quest I liked was
SPOILER
the one you have to judge what has happened in a village
END SPOILER
sure, there was still too much combat, but at least there was also a good plot!
I remember in the first NWN, the only quest I liked was
SPOILER
the one you have to judge what has happened in a village
END SPOILER
sure, there was still too much combat, but at least there was also a good plot!
#12
Posté 20 août 2010 - 11:28
Shallina
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What make a game successfull :
First the technical side of the game need to be good. If the game fail from technical side then no one is going to play it.
Secondly the game need a good gameplay. It needs to be fun when you play it, not something boring ultra streamlined where you got nothing to do and the game almost play on its own like 80% of the released game that are trully afraid to challenge the player.
3d it need to have an interesting plot that will make the player to want to know more and to continue.
First the technical side of the game need to be good. If the game fail from technical side then no one is going to play it.
Secondly the game need a good gameplay. It needs to be fun when you play it, not something boring ultra streamlined where you got nothing to do and the game almost play on its own like 80% of the released game that are trully afraid to challenge the player.
3d it need to have an interesting plot that will make the player to want to know more and to continue.
#13
Posté 20 août 2010 - 01:53
Vaalyah
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What do you mean by technical side? The absence of bug?
#14
Posté 20 août 2010 - 03:55
The Fred
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Yeah, as a commercial product, NWN2 would have been a lot more successful (not saying whether it was successful or not, just that it could have been better) if it hadn't been so buggy when shipped, if it had worked on lower grade PCs or at least given us graphics worth the PC power (what you get is good but not really worth what you need to get it, and I wasn't the only one who needed a new graphics card) and if it had been marketter better early on as a long game-life product with a toolset the community could do wonders with. I think a lot of people were put off early on.
#15
Posté 20 août 2010 - 06:06
Ticladesign
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What makes a RPG game sucsessfull? I'm talking general here, and not per se a D&D type of RPG game, or NWN3 for that matter -
- Excellent animations. You can have crappy textures, or a borked ruleset here and there.. but if the Animations look brilliant, there is alot players forget and simply enjoy the eyecandy.
- High quality soundeffects. If a simple swipe with a sword has this extra "OOMPH" effect in sound, it feels epic. Even when it isnt. And if an Epic fireball goes "plop" The player sure makes a facepalm.
- Easy to get into, hard to master. One of the Blizzard rules. And they're right. This is what makes a RPG awesome. RPG's that are only hard to master, gain only a small group of players, and obiously sell bad. Easy RPG's will be quickly forgotten and will put off the more hardcore players. Key is a good game needs both groups.
- A very own style of graphics and artwork. To make the game stand out from all the rest, visually. That can be, yes.. a cartoony look, to a more alternative look. Hate it or no, an unique look will sell more copies.
- Excellent animations. You can have crappy textures, or a borked ruleset here and there.. but if the Animations look brilliant, there is alot players forget and simply enjoy the eyecandy.
- High quality soundeffects. If a simple swipe with a sword has this extra "OOMPH" effect in sound, it feels epic. Even when it isnt. And if an Epic fireball goes "plop" The player sure makes a facepalm.
- Easy to get into, hard to master. One of the Blizzard rules. And they're right. This is what makes a RPG awesome. RPG's that are only hard to master, gain only a small group of players, and obiously sell bad. Easy RPG's will be quickly forgotten and will put off the more hardcore players. Key is a good game needs both groups.
- A very own style of graphics and artwork. To make the game stand out from all the rest, visually. That can be, yes.. a cartoony look, to a more alternative look. Hate it or no, an unique look will sell more copies.
#16
Posté 20 août 2010 - 07:53
Elvhen Veluthil
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Some quick thoughts in the topic:
- A worthy villain, someone to care to go after and defeat. I hate generic type antagonists.
- Exploration. I am the type to always go the other way that the main quest is going. Let me forgot myself in unknown areas that have nothing to do with the main quest.
- Progressive power gain. I want to enjoy learning fireball as a major event in my magician life. Make each level important and recognizable. Slow and meaningful level progression.
- An epic story. Since you are going to tell one, give us an epic one. All worlds have tales full of epic deeds.
- I like also alignment systems. If I choose to be a heroic paladin, I want the world to recognize me for what I am. If I am evil I want the same. Companions should also generally react to my style of play, and not only in particular occasions.
- Loot, a lot of it. With a worthy inventory aka BG. I love to sit by the hours and to sort out all those items. Holdings bags are helpful for potions, arrows and gems.
- Resting, random encounters, no save in particular areas and situations. Filling up mana systems doesn't work for me. I prefer the resting system.
- Permanent death. Hard to come by, but I want it there. No getting up after each battle, instead have costly resurrection solutions.
- Companions should be just that, companions. Don't make them dominate the game with their personality and personal quests. The story is about the PC (I have particulars examples in mind, but will keep things general to avoid getting in those kind of arguments that don't get nowhere).
- Romance should be there, as a side quest so to speak. I want first and foremost friendsand companions to adventure with, if things goes to that direction, let it take a long time to do so, and if you must, conclude it with a fade-to-black cutscene. We should get up early in the morning and continuing our adventures, no time to chit-chat (I'm a busy man. I got places to go, monsters to kill!).
- No easter eggs in the game. I hate those thing, I demand respect to the setting.
- No enemy level scaling as the above posters said. My power can be understood correctly only in relation with the power of other entities. This is a goldmine for some unforgettable gaming moments.
- A fun combat system that don't rely on animations (except for spells animations, I love that stuff), but in tactics. I won't be able to see the animations anyway, I want to be busy issuing orders to all my party. Difficulty should be what you choose to be.
- Graphics, models and everything else should be faithful to the setting the game takes place. Elves should be elves, and not human with pointy ears. I don't care about the high resolution, but I want things to be as I imagine them to be in the setting.
- Puzzles, dungeons, and lot of quests.
- A worthy villain, someone to care to go after and defeat. I hate generic type antagonists.
- Exploration. I am the type to always go the other way that the main quest is going. Let me forgot myself in unknown areas that have nothing to do with the main quest.
- Progressive power gain. I want to enjoy learning fireball as a major event in my magician life. Make each level important and recognizable. Slow and meaningful level progression.
- An epic story. Since you are going to tell one, give us an epic one. All worlds have tales full of epic deeds.
- I like also alignment systems. If I choose to be a heroic paladin, I want the world to recognize me for what I am. If I am evil I want the same. Companions should also generally react to my style of play, and not only in particular occasions.
- Loot, a lot of it. With a worthy inventory aka BG. I love to sit by the hours and to sort out all those items. Holdings bags are helpful for potions, arrows and gems.
- Resting, random encounters, no save in particular areas and situations. Filling up mana systems doesn't work for me. I prefer the resting system.
- Permanent death. Hard to come by, but I want it there. No getting up after each battle, instead have costly resurrection solutions.
- Companions should be just that, companions. Don't make them dominate the game with their personality and personal quests. The story is about the PC (I have particulars examples in mind, but will keep things general to avoid getting in those kind of arguments that don't get nowhere).
- Romance should be there, as a side quest so to speak. I want first and foremost friendsand companions to adventure with, if things goes to that direction, let it take a long time to do so, and if you must, conclude it with a fade-to-black cutscene. We should get up early in the morning and continuing our adventures, no time to chit-chat (I'm a busy man. I got places to go, monsters to kill!).
- No easter eggs in the game. I hate those thing, I demand respect to the setting.
- No enemy level scaling as the above posters said. My power can be understood correctly only in relation with the power of other entities. This is a goldmine for some unforgettable gaming moments.
- A fun combat system that don't rely on animations (except for spells animations, I love that stuff), but in tactics. I won't be able to see the animations anyway, I want to be busy issuing orders to all my party. Difficulty should be what you choose to be.
- Graphics, models and everything else should be faithful to the setting the game takes place. Elves should be elves, and not human with pointy ears. I don't care about the high resolution, but I want things to be as I imagine them to be in the setting.
- Puzzles, dungeons, and lot of quests.
#17
Posté 21 août 2010 - 01:38
Vaalyah
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I think my intent has been misunderstood... I am not speaking from a marketing-dept point of view, but from a player point of view.
Of course the better the graphic with not expensive hardware would be fantastic, and also no bug and good sounds effects, but I was speaking to more player related experience.
I can summarize as: what would you see in the next game for making you worth to buy it?
PS: but... are the voices about NWN3 true? I'd love that ^^
@ Elvhen: I have to disagree about your sentence: "no save in particular areas and situations". For many reasons. The most important are:
1) usually, I can play for very small amount of time at once, so maybe this evening I play 20 minutes or even less. Yes, it is not nice since it is more difficult to enter in the spirit of the game, but having no time, I prefer playing few but often than a lot of time but once a month. However, if I can't save when I want, each time I would see my efforts being wasted.
2) if there is something very difficult to achieve, playing it several times starting from... ie: 2 hours before, implies that at the 4th time I simply put my game on the shelf. I love a good plot, but doing again and again the pointless 2 hours before the point I get stuck just because I can't save, is frustrating!
I second the option for resurrection. Also because, being a cleric, I am still here wondering what I am supposed to do with my resurrection spell if no one deads and I can't resurrect whoever I want.
About what you said on companions... please, can you provide me an example? Also via PM in case you don't want to generate arguments. Just know that I haven't finished the OC yet (I am just at the keep)
Never seen an easter egg in the game... what have I lost?
Of course the better the graphic with not expensive hardware would be fantastic, and also no bug and good sounds effects, but I was speaking to more player related experience.
I can summarize as: what would you see in the next game for making you worth to buy it?
PS: but... are the voices about NWN3 true? I'd love that ^^
@ Elvhen: I have to disagree about your sentence: "no save in particular areas and situations". For many reasons. The most important are:
1) usually, I can play for very small amount of time at once, so maybe this evening I play 20 minutes or even less. Yes, it is not nice since it is more difficult to enter in the spirit of the game, but having no time, I prefer playing few but often than a lot of time but once a month. However, if I can't save when I want, each time I would see my efforts being wasted.
2) if there is something very difficult to achieve, playing it several times starting from... ie: 2 hours before, implies that at the 4th time I simply put my game on the shelf. I love a good plot, but doing again and again the pointless 2 hours before the point I get stuck just because I can't save, is frustrating!
I second the option for resurrection. Also because, being a cleric, I am still here wondering what I am supposed to do with my resurrection spell if no one deads and I can't resurrect whoever I want.
About what you said on companions... please, can you provide me an example? Also via PM in case you don't want to generate arguments. Just know that I haven't finished the OC yet (I am just at the keep)
Never seen an easter egg in the game... what have I lost?
#18
Posté 21 août 2010 - 06:52
Elvhen Veluthil
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When I say no save, I don't mean something like Final Fantasy VII for example. But in the other hand, don't autosave for me right before each difficult situation (Dragon Age does that here and there). If you know that you'd loose one hour of progress if you loose to a boss fight, I bet you'd be more careful and more alert during the fight, situations that create strong feelings with either outcome.
About the companions, that's something Bioware is doing with all their late games, and it seems will continue with DA2. ME2 was only about the companions. It's a personal preference, but I don't like when my companions are all too present everywhere, having opinions about everything, just being everywhere. To be honest, I prefer more the BG1 companions that all those new ones. They were mostly silent, but any of them had a distinct personality, someone was the silent hunter, someone the greedy dwarf, their alignment made it easier for me to imagine their personality and to determine what feelings I had for them.
I wasn't speaking about easter eggs in NWN2 but in general. There is one in DAO for example that is so tasteless and totally out of place. These kind of things tend to ruin my experience significantly.
About the companions, that's something Bioware is doing with all their late games, and it seems will continue with DA2. ME2 was only about the companions. It's a personal preference, but I don't like when my companions are all too present everywhere, having opinions about everything, just being everywhere. To be honest, I prefer more the BG1 companions that all those new ones. They were mostly silent, but any of them had a distinct personality, someone was the silent hunter, someone the greedy dwarf, their alignment made it easier for me to imagine their personality and to determine what feelings I had for them.
I wasn't speaking about easter eggs in NWN2 but in general. There is one in DAO for example that is so tasteless and totally out of place. These kind of things tend to ruin my experience significantly.
Modifié par Elvhen Veluthil, 21 août 2010 - 06:55 .
#19
Posté 21 août 2010 - 08:20
The Fred
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Autosaves are good, because the game might know if you're about to face a tough foe when you don't. I don't usually notice autosaves anyway.
#20
Posté 21 août 2010 - 10:25
Vaalyah
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@Elvhen: if you want to say the truth, I usually save evry 5 seconds or something like that :-D autosave is completely useless for me :-P
However, at the opposite of you, I LOVE NPCs having their own comments on what is happening, hearing their opinions, their voices... you see, in real life, when you travel with friends, they are not supposed to follow blindly your choices... they are real people and real people tends to have opinions and reactions to what is happening.
So I do like a lot "intrusive" NPCs :-D
However, at the opposite of you, I LOVE NPCs having their own comments on what is happening, hearing their opinions, their voices... you see, in real life, when you travel with friends, they are not supposed to follow blindly your choices... they are real people and real people tends to have opinions and reactions to what is happening.
So I do like a lot "intrusive" NPCs :-D
