42 réponses à ce sujet

[RavenousBear]

jln.francisco wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

There is no canon.

Yet.

There are bits of cannon regardless of playthroughes. At the end of the game these things always happen:
Calian is dead.
Duncan is MIA.
Lothering is destroyed.
There is a new Dwarven King.
Sacred Ashes are found.
Eamon is saved.
There are no longer werewolves.
Blight has ended.

There was a thread about this sometime back and this is what i remembered.

quick note, Duncan is KIA (killed in action) not MIA (missing in action). And I thought the werewolves remained if you sided with them and massacred the elves because you hate elves or didn't have enough melee units or something.

*Spoiler*

In the epilogue the werewolves become hostile towards nearby human settlements and vanish without a trace.

[Thiefy]

jln.francisco wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

There is no canon.

Yet.

There are bits of cannon regardless of playthroughes. At the end of the game these things always happen:
Calian is dead.
Duncan is MIA.
Lothering is destroyed.
There is a new Dwarven King.
Sacred Ashes are found.
Eamon is saved.
There are no longer werewolves.
Blight has ended.

There was a thread about this sometime back and this is what i remembered.

quick note, Duncan is KIA (killed in action) not MIA (missing in action). And I thought the werewolves remained if you sided with them and massacred the elves because you hate elves or didn't have enough melee units or something.

Actually he is assumed dead, there's no solid proof, like a body, that shows he is dead. Hence MIA.

And even if the werewolves side with you they go berserk after the ending and the people kill them, or something to that extent. So they are either cured, killed by you, or killed by an angry mob. Regardless, no more Fereldan werewolves.

[TJPags]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

jln.francisco wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

There is no canon.

Yet.

There are bits of cannon regardless of playthroughes. At the end of the game these things always happen:
Calian is dead.
Duncan is MIA.
Lothering is destroyed.
There is a new Dwarven King.
Sacred Ashes are found.
Eamon is saved.
There are no longer werewolves.
Blight has ended.

There was a thread about this sometime back and this is what i remembered.

quick note, Duncan is KIA (killed in action) not MIA (missing in action). And I thought the werewolves remained if you sided with them and massacred the elves because you hate elves or didn't have enough melee units or something.

Actually he is assumed dead, there's no solid proof, like a body, that shows he is dead. Hence MIA.

And even if the werewolves side with you they go berserk after the ending and the people kill them, or something to that extent. So they are either cured, killed by you, or killed by an angry mob. Regardless, no more Fereldan werewolves.

There were a LOT of bodies missing at Ostagar.  Like, all of them, except Caillain.

Are they all MIA too?

[Sarah1281]

Duncan has also been confirmed dead by the devs who insist that the only things we may see of Duncan in the future are pre-Ostagar.

[Thiefy]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Duncan has also been confirmed dead by the devs who insist that the only things we may see of Duncan in the future are pre-Ostagar.

Didn't realize that or see that quote; i've only recently been active in the forum after a several month hiatus.

[Last Darkness]

Stop thinking this is real and literal and understand this is a game meant to make money.
That being said...

There is Canon, We have seen it in Darkspawn Cronicles in Alistairs choices, in Awakening if you import a Orlesian Warden, and in Dragon Age 2 there will be a default canon if you dont import your save data.

The canon is a Grey Warden neutral path as I have explained, its whats best vrs the blight. Not whats right or wroung.

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
There are bits of cannon regardless of playthroughes. At the end of the game these things always happen:
Calian is dead.
Duncan is MIA.
Lothering is destroyed.
There is a new Dwarven King.
Sacred Ashes are found.
Eamon is saved.
There are no longer werewolves.
Blight has ended.

Corrections and Addedums
Duncan Recruits a New Warden(All the other Origens characters are in game actualy)
Calian dies at Ostagar.
Duncan is presumed dead. (You never actualy see him die or find his body)
Lothering is destroyed.
Templars end up killing the mages, or Mages are saved.
Dahlish survive and Werewolves are Killed or Cured, or Werewolves survive, Dahlish are killed or turned into Werewolves.
Anvil is redicovered or destroyed, a new king is on teh dwarvern throne, Bhelen or Harrowmont.
Connor and Isolde are saved, or Connor is Killed,or Isolde is Killed,or  Bargains with Desire demon are made or demon is killed.
Sacred Ashes are Found, Cult is destroyed or left alone, or Sacred ashes are found and location is never revealed.
Not a real variance in DLC but we have confirmation they are tracking wether you did it or not.
Landsmeet (Too many varibles)
Confirmed Canon, Alistair kills Lohgaine and assumes the throne. I belive its a confirmed "Hardened" Alistair.
Confirmed Canon, Dark Ritual with Morrigan, The Warden if male or Alistair if female.

Thats the basic rough rundown.
What shows up in more then one instance is Werewolves, and Golems. We have to extrapolate what events are likly to have occured. I  like to think Anvil+Bhelen as thats the most beneficial to teh dwarves and the wardens cause, On the Dahlish side till talking to lady of teh forest then betray Zathrian once the warden learned the truth. Warden may be racist against elves, but still the werewolves were the superior army compared to the dahlish(Since the dahlish were not ALL dahlish just the clan taht was there while the werewolves were hunting everything in the forest elves, humans, dwarves whatever and infecting them to boost their ranks.) If on PC I suggest getting the mod "Wolf Shop" so that you get a werewolf vendor to replace varehil.

The events of the circle tower.....well they have to be a course that you get Wynn in, generaly we have to assume the mages were saved because of this, but as said you could have teh scenario where wynn is still there but the mages got screwed. So this is up in the air but it still has got to be a way Wynn is recruited.

Also along these same lines, the Sacred Ashes can NOT be defiled.

[Thiefy]

I could have added a lot more to that list but events that have variables that change depending on your actions were not listed for obvious reasons.



cannon is something that forces everyone to have the same plot point...aside from what i listed there are very few other things that can be considered canon.



default and canon are not the same, much as people may disagree. it was to my understanding that the dragon age franchise was a "choose your own story/fate" kind of game (within the limits presented to us, naturally), and *we* make the canon.



Where did "Dark Ritual confirmed canon" come from anyway? Mr. Gaider even said himself that it would be pretty lame to force people to accept that as canon should they chose not to.



i'll never understand the fascination other people have trying to force their stories down other people's playthroughes =/

[Sarah1281]

There is Canon, We have seen it in Darkspawn Cronicles in Alistairs choices, in Awakening if you import a Orlesian Warden, and in Dragon Age 2 there will be a default canon if you dont import your save data.

You can't take a DLC that has been confirmed as AU and call it canon. It is all Alistair's choices (which make no freaking sense) with no input from the Warden. At all. That 'canon' also has Zevran hiding out in the Alienage, Oghren hanging out in a tavern, Wynne being escorted by Cullen and someone else to Denerim, Sten off doing who knows what, and Alistair and Leliana together. It has the ashes never found. It has Howe surviving the Landsmeet and on your side. Are we just supposed to assume that all of that is also true?



AU is kind of the exact opposite of canon.

[RavenousBear]

I think Bioware added Golems and Werewolves in the DLC just to add more variety to the enemies you get to slaughter in the game. The "savior" and his crew already slaughtered many elves in the Alienage, what is the point of adding more in (unless you hate elves of course)?



In my opinion siding with the werewolves will NOT be canon. The wardens have a treaty with the elves; switching sides at the very last moment is extremely risky and they are not obligated to help you once you clear the Dalish camp. Finishing off the werewolves who have attacked your potential ally and have been hostile towards you throughout the mission makes more sense to me.

[Last Darkness]

theif-of-hearts makes a good point.
I wasnt thinking of seperating canon and default.

There is defined Canon, and then there is also defined defaults. We should make a list of both.

Sarah, are you a drama queen and have to blow everything out of proportion? since when are we assuming all teh events of darkspawn C are fact? (technicaly they are Fact in that AU lol)
Im using DC even though its a AU for that fact that despite it being a AU the choice made also reflected the default choices for Awakening. Or the fact that say...Alistair is King in two seperate modules by default mean that its just a coincidence or a linking factor? Im not saying your wroung, your very right on alot but you keep overexagerating points.

Can we all agree on making a default list, a Canon (Events that always happen for everyone) list, and a varibles list or are Theif and myself the only ones who are trying to work this out to get to as mcuh of the truth as possible?



*edit* Oh and im fairly certain Dark Ritual is going to be future canon as it such a huge plot point to use in the future you would have to be stupid not to use it. Plus its the only option where someone dosnt permanetly die. Bioware has shown they will bend the rules on this issue with Awakening being able to import a warden that died.

Modifié par Last Darkness, 19 août 2010 - 04:36 .

[Sarah1281]

Sarah, are you a drama queen and have to blow everything out of proportion? since when are we assuming all teh events of darkspawn C are fact? (technicaly they are Fact in that AU lol)

...Excuse me? I disagree that an AU DLC can help you find a 'canon' and list several decisions that are impossible or at least highly unlikely to be canon to support my position and you accuse me of being a drama queen?

Modifié par Sarah1281, 19 août 2010 - 04:50 .

[errant_knight]

Sarah1281 wrote...

HAL4294 wrote...

In my opinion, canon is most likely whatever nets the highest approval/least substantial approval loss among all party members in a scenario where all companions are recruited.

You know, that's really difficult to do given that Loghain is a companion and recruiting him makes Alistair hostile...

Given the OP's hypothesis, that would make recruiting Loghain non-canon.

[errant_knight]

Sarah1281 wrote...

There is Canon, We have seen it in Darkspawn Cronicles in Alistairs choices, in Awakening if you import a Orlesian Warden, and in Dragon Age 2 there will be a default canon if you dont import your save data.

You can't take a DLC that has been confirmed as AU and call it canon. It is all Alistair's choices (which make no freaking sense) with no input from the Warden. At all. That 'canon' also has Zevran hiding out in the Alienage, Oghren hanging out in a tavern, Wynne being escorted by Cullen and someone else to Denerim, Sten off doing who knows what, and Alistair and Leliana together. It has the ashes never found. It has Howe surviving the Landsmeet and on your side. Are we just supposed to assume that all of that is also true?

AU is kind of the exact opposite of canon.

Agreed. Darkspawn Chronicles has no bearing on anything except the financial bottom line.

[Last Darkness]

Your argument and opinions are worth nothing if you dont read the full posts.



So people are saying that because Alistair made some of the same choices in Darkspawn Chronicles that are Default for a Orlesian Warden. The Fact that they have shown up twice in two contents created by the developer, that it means nothing.

*Sigh* I lose my faith in human intelligence more and more.

[Sarah1281]

Last Darkness wrote...

Your argument and opinions are worth nothing if you dont read the full posts.

So people are saying that because Alistair made some of the same choices in Darkspawn Chronicles that are Default for a Orlesian Warden. The Fact that they have shown up twice in two contents created by the developer, that it means nothing.
*Sigh* I lose my faith in human intelligence more and more.

I, for one, did read your full posts and it's very offensive for you to just completely write off what I said with a 'well, clearly you didn't read what I wrote.' Why in the world are you translating 'I disagree with you' to all these other things? Disagreeing with you does not mean that people don't understand what you said, it doesn't mean that they haven't read what you said, and it doesn't mean that they are necessarily being dramatic. Sure, I only quoted part of it but that was the part I was addressing. The only choice that, to my knowledge, is default in both DSC and Awakening for an Orlesian Warden is Alistair for King. The DR isn't taken in Awakening as you have an US Warden, the dwarven King isn't mentioned by name in Awakening, the Dalish/Werewolf situation isn't mentioned, the mage/Templar situation isn't mentioned...am I forgetting anything? 

Oh, and yes: having the same default King does not have to mean anything. Bioware wasn't 'bending the rules' for you to import a dead Warden; there's no save after you choose to sacrifice yourself. If you choose to import a dead Warden, the game assumes that, since you can't be the protagonist if you're dead, that Loghain or Alistair took the blow.

Also? Claiming to lose your faith in human intelligence because people on the internet disagree with you about a video game and you're either misunderstanding or choosing to misinterpret what they've said is really kind of over-the-top. And what was I overexaggerating about? I just listed actual default DSC choices. No embellishments at all. Just simple listing. I don't think it's at all exaggerating to counter your suggesting that we take some choices in DSC to be canon but pointing to other clearly non-canon choices to support why I don't think that's a good idea.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 19 août 2010 - 06:45 .

[TJPags]

Canon - Duncan is dead people . . .dead.