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[Pysces]

I finally purchased DA:O for the PC and super pleased after having played on the PS3… the tactical mode is sweet!
 
I’ve been running through with the same character I played last time (Rogue, only dex based instead of Cun based) and sort of realised it was all a tad boring playing a Rogue... You sacrifice a lot of early skills to get things like open locks, stealth, persuasion and steal, that 90% of the time I’m just auto attacking with momentum on and controlling my other party members most of the time in between repositioning to get backstabs. Everything I read seems to suggest it doesn’t get better then this, because the skills are generally worse then just auto attacking away.
 
I guess I just like hitting buttons, even if I know that Rogue is doing some serious damage with that setup.
 
I figured a Mage or a Warrior is going to be more enjoyable for me as a main character.
 
For a Warrior, like many, I’m debating between 2H, Dualwield, or S&S. This is a summary if my findings so far about what to pick. I play on the PC, and on Hard difficulty at the moment.
 
I know I’m not really interested in building a “dex” based tank, even if it’s the most 100% efficient way. I like the philosophy of “the quicker it dies, the less damage I take”. 
 
I know that S&S Warriors can get quite beefy in the damage department against a single target. They get crowd control through Warcry, and potentially the Templar Holy Smite ability, if I go that way over say Berserker. Their abilities obviously work well towards tanking/absorbing damage.
 
I like the idea of Dual Wield Warriors because from what I’ve read, they spam attacks, and that sounds pretty interactive. They also pump dex (a concession I’m willing to make if required), which helps efficiently with tanking, and their abilities hold threat well. The downside is they don’t have a mode like Shield Wall/Indomitable, relying what seems like solely dex for tanking, nor any crowd control abilities above S&S.
 
Two-Handed seems to be where I like. Skill based, big damage, with some skills that indirectly assist with tanking. You could have three crowd control skills (Sweeping Strikes, War Cry, and Holy Smite), backed up by Indomitable, which of course is great. 
 
I thought about complimenting my “Two-Handed” tank with Shale as a party member, since she is so malleable. Tough fight? Switch her to tank mode, should be alright between the two. Otherwise put her in whatever mode suits (Stone Aura seems best).
 
How would I go about best building these tanks stats wise? I know to crank STR basically, with the minimum Dex required into skills, but what about CON? I know CON is largely viewed as useless, but I figure it can’t be bad as everyone makes it out to be. As long as you end the fight alive, you won the battle in my books.
 
 
 
 

[ezrafetch]

I am a fan of 2H warriors. I think they're by far the best tanks because of Indomitable. Stuns and knockdowns are nothing to you, which means you're much more able to control the battlefield. There's a pretty solid guide on tanking as a 2H on the DA Wiki, it's worth taking a look at. I followed it to the tee, except that I went with CGM as my endgame weapon, went max Strength, and found the bow option lackluster since switching weapon sets turns off Indomitable (unacceptable!).

But to summarize what I would run with a 2H tank:

[Max] Strength
[to taste, if you need the attack] Dexterity
[to taste, but CGM eliminates the need for points] Willpower

Talents are pretty easy, just max out the 2H tree, the top of the Warrior line (Death Blow), then pick up Taunt. That's 18 points. Then you dump points into your two specs. I'd suggest Templar and Reaver. Templar is key if you're tanking since you want to aim for 100% spell resist, and Templar is the only spec that gives you the option of getting anywhere near that (Knight-Commander's Armor for the win). I love the Holy Smite AoE knockdown/damage, and the fact that it's a cast-able means you can plant it anywhere you want, really. The other spec is up to you, but I prefer Reaver since you become a little more self-reliant. Devour is nice, then you also have stun in Frightening Appearance (also synergizes Taunt/Threaten, allowing better threat management).

Champion's also a fine choice, but I left that to Oghren, personally. I ran with Oghren + Leliana + Wynne. Oghren for DPS/CC, Leliana for utility (Ranger+SoC), and Wynne to heal. With my 2H, there was no need for another tank. Just make sure you manage your threat correctly...if you forget to Taunt or Threaten, you'll find dead teammates pretty quickly (Leliana's Scattershot = everyone gangs up on her)...though you yourself probably won't really die at all.

Modifié par ezrafetch, 18 août 2010 - 05:46 .

[Limorkil]

I agree with ezrafetch.



A 2h warrior with every point in strength is not really going to be all that much worse at tanking than a tank.

- They really cannot take too many hits, but nothing lives long enough to do a lot of damage.

- They do not get stunned or knocked down. If sword/shield tank had this ability they would be way better.

- They are THE boss killers. Elites and bosses generally cause way more problems than normal mobs, but against a 2h warrior they go down amazingly quickly.

- They do not run out of stamina because almost every blow kills something (which returns stamina with the right talent).



I am not saying 2h>SS, just that it is not much worse and has more utility. To be honest though, a DW warrior is not that much worse than SS either.

[Pysces]

Started the my Two Handed Dwarf yesterday, really enjoy it so far. Been pumping pure STR so far, only stopping for a bit of cun when needed for the persuasion talent.



First thing I did was respec out of the starting Shield Talent, and went for Sunder Arms, Pommel Strike, Powerful, & Precise Strike. I've held onto one talent to wait until level for and get both Taunt and Threaten. I haven't gotten Indomitable yet because I know Ostagar isn't that hard, and it seems like I can't run both Precise Strike and Indomitable without sucking all my Stamina. I'll get it soon, as it doesn't seem like I have much choice yet (waiting until level 10 to get Sunder Armor).

[swk3000]

Pysces wrote...

Started the my Two Handed Dwarf yesterday, really enjoy it so far. Been pumping pure STR so far, only stopping for a bit of cun when needed for the persuasion talent.

Excellent choice. In fact, you don't need to put put points anywhere else. Keep in mind that STR boosts Attack, as well, so you don't need to boost DEX at all.

First thing I did was respec out of the starting Shield Talent, and went for Sunder Arms, Pommel Strike, Powerful, & Precise Strike. I've held onto one talent to wait until level for and get both Taunt and Threaten. I haven't gotten Indomitable yet because I know Ostagar isn't that hard, and it seems like I can't run both Precise Strike and Indomitable without sucking all my Stamina. I'll get it soon, as it doesn't seem like I have much choice yet (waiting until level 10 to get Sunder Armor).

One of the biggest issues with a Two-Handed Warrior is that they lack the Stamina to do everything they need to do early in the game. They really like equipment that gives boosts to Stamina early on, so the Warden Commander Boots and the Executioner's Helm are great items. If you've got Return to Ostagar, the Nug-Crusher is also excellent.

As a general commentary, the Two-Handed Warrior does make a decent Tank; however, they lack the extra defensive bonuses provided by Shields, and don't have an immunity to Flanking Attacks. That doesn't mean they can't be Tanks, though. And Indomitable is indeed amazing.

[Super ._. Shepard]

dwarves are fighting machines they are the best with two handed weapons

[ANDY5151]

Super ._. Shepard wrote...

dwarves are fighting machines they are the best with two handed weapons

I am positive it is irrelevant as to what race you pick for a 2handed warrior...maybe at the start a small bit...but my 2handed human performed the same as my dwarf with the same exact build and spec....yes i played the same char twice on 2 origins..

[ashwind]

2H Warrior is definitely my favorite amongst the 3 warrior variation. I however invested more in con - about 30+ (equipment). The damage it can do and the never missing Sunder Arms and Armor means not many can withstand your onslaught. Also, the sight of your opponents flying around is quite the spectacle - for myself that is the highlight of a 2H warrior XD

Even in Nightmare mode, few can withstand the raw power of a berserk 2H warrior. I remember killing Loghain Nightmare mode in 3 seconds (more than once actually) with some lucky critical hits XD but even without the critical he cant last for more than 6 seconds against a Str 2H warrior - usually he dies immediately after he executes 1 skill: Assault - even if you do miss, 90% of the time he dies by the next hit.

The other Warriors are not any less powerful BUT if you enjoy smashing through your enemies and send them flying in all directions - 2H warrior with high str comes highly recommended.

Modifié par ashwind, 21 août 2010 - 05:16 .

[Arthur Cousland]

Hopefully you didn't put too many points into cunning for coercion. You get 5 points for free after going through the fade during the Broken Circle part if the main quest. Since you only need 16 cunning for max coercion, you should be either set or just need 1 point after finishing that part.

[termokanden]

ezrafetch wrote...

But to summarize what I would run with a 2H tank:

[Max] Strength
[to taste, if you need the attack] Dexterity
[to taste, but CGM eliminates the need for points] Willpower

Wait what? Strength and dex both increase your melee attack rating by 0.5. So why would you not put the point into strength for damage also?

Each point of dex does give 1 defense though.

I'm wondering one thing though. I read there was some kind of cap of 100 on the bonus damage from attributes. Say you play 2h and pour all points into strength for all of Origins and Awakening. Is it possible to hit the cap this way?

Modifié par termokanden, 21 août 2010 - 02:38 .

[ezrafetch]

termokanden wrote...

ezrafetch wrote...

But to summarize what I would run with a 2H tank:

[Max] Strength
[to taste, if you need the attack] Dexterity
[to taste, but CGM eliminates the need for points] Willpower

Wait what? Strength and dex both increase your melee attack rating by 0.5. So why would you not put the point into strength for damage also?

Each point of dex does give 1 defense though.

I'm wondering one thing though. I read there was some kind of cap of 100 on the bonus damage from attributes. Say you play 2h and pour all points into strength for all of Origins and Awakening. Is it possible to hit the cap this way?

Orite.  Strength adds to attack in this game.  I keep mixing it up with Diablo II (game of my childhood, sigh), where Strength is only useful for wearing items and for small damage, aka pretty useless.  I suppose if you really need the Defense, add in Dex, that's the only excuse in DAO (for 2H).

For your question, I would assume it's possible.  3 attribute points per level, you level up to 35, so that plus Fade plus any Tomes should definitely get you to hit the cap.  Whether the cap exists, I'm not sure, I've never heard of it.

[Last Darkness]

Two Hander definetly go with Champion/Reaver, theres two stat distribution builds and both are effective. The first is 100% all points into Str, this is the pure "A good defense is a great offense" type of character you will hit big and often. The second build as suggested by Elhanan that ive tried is a Will 30(With Buffs) all other points Str build. This build allows for much more talent spam which is what a two hander warrior is all about. Also info no one has mentioned about two handers, they suck at the begining of the game when you only have a couple talents and have to rely on auto attacking and because your gear is lower your going to die just rushing in. Two hand dosnt really become good till close to halfway through the game. Then it sky rockets.



Duelwielder....theres like 15 guides and topics on them on teh first 3 pages look there.



What you may wanna consider is the offensive shield warrior setup. 26 Dex, all other points str. You have the survivabiliy of a tank whileing doing on average three times the damage. Very fun character to play as, also since you have so few abilities you dont have to get complecated with so many skill choices or manage your stamina. Champion/Templar, Champion/Berserker, Champion/Reaver, Templar/Reaver are all good setups here.

[_Greenbottle]

Actually, offensive-shield warrior was my favourite setup, especially when you get some of the better shields towards the end. Sure, you've only got one sword (while a 2-weapon warrior gets twice as many, and a two-handed warrior maybe 1.5x as many), but your survivability definitely flies up (and there are fewer abilities to worry about). I find with two-handed tanks that they either do really well, or everything goes terribly wrong and they get struck down in no time. Sword-shield warriors definitely have a higher reliability factor.

[Pysces]

I ended up settling for a Dual Wield Warrior. It felt the most kosher in a way. You have two characters setup for Two Handed already,so I figured why miss the opportunity to play with them without a serious case of the deja vu.

The respec mod and DLC items are spoiling things a little at the moment though. At first, I just respecced my main character (noble human) to get rid of eye sore starting shield talent. Then I went and respecced Alistair, and pumped his STR through the roof as I would if he were the main. Next thing you know, Alistair is wearing Blood Dragon Armor wielding Starfang, and my main is wielding Blightblood & Duncan's Dagger along with Battledress of the Provocateur. One word: Machines. This is all before doing the Circle (which I normally always do first to get the stats).

That respec mod can be such a slippery slope. I then ended up respeccing Morrigan, cause I "could" and didn't like the stray point in lightning, and she's a monster now too. The only one dragging is Leiliana, and if she didn't open locks, I'd boot her.  My only constraint has been to keep the characters somewhat "as intended".  Morrigan is still a shapeshifter, even if I could change her to a Spirit Healer for instance.

This 1) At least gives me a reason to play other characters other then their dialog, and 2) leaves some room to try new things.

I might see about upping the difficulty to nightmare. A lot of challenging battles in the Circle have been basically cakewalks now.

I find it a little ironic though that in order to have a challenge, you basically have to play with 3 "broken" characters so to speak. A few change in skills and stats, and suddenly Alistair tanks like a champ, Morrigan has much more valuable skills, and everything runs smoothly.  I know, with a few levels, these characters get to where they need to be anyway, but man does it make a difference.

Modifié par Pysces, 22 août 2010 - 10:48 .

[ashwind]

The only one dragging is Leiliana, and if she didn't open locks

You can try Leliana's Captivating Song, that should kill "challenging" encounters even more, at least for me. When her cunning is high enough, you get to spend most of your time hitting standing targets and you dont even have to "spoil" the intended build.

[Last Darkness]

Play on hard or better yet nightmare now.

[ashwind]

Only difference between normal and nightmare is - normal, do not need to cast heal except for a few encounters (full party) and never needed potions (full party). Nightmare, need to cast heal more and need to use potions. Oh yeah and there is also a higher chance to die soloing in Nightmare

Reason being, Nightmare does not make the mobs any smarter 

Modifié par ashwind, 22 août 2010 - 12:59 .

[swk3000]

Ashwind, what you need to realize is that AI doesn't stand for Artificial Intelligence; it stands for Artificial Idiocy.

[ashwind]

swk3000 wrote...

Ashwind, what you need to realize is that AI doesn't stand for Artificial Intelligence; it stands for Artificial Idiocy.

Truer words has never been spoken. Actually, AI does stand for artificial idiocy when it comes to game programming. The real challenge is to make the mobs stupid enough to lose to the player even when they have the advantage but subtly - we cant let the players "know for sure" that the mobs are going easy on them now can we

The "worst" AI would mean that the computer is so smart that all the archers will automatically pick the mage and rain arrow of slaying on the mage, or take turns to use scattering arrow. Enemy mages will join effort and send Storm of the Century your way every time .

So, in short, the programmers are trying to make the otherwise perfect mobs stupid and flawed so that we can brag about how we own them 

[DWSmiley]

Last Darkness wrote...

Will 30(With Buffs) all other points Str build. This build allows for much more talent spam

Sorry but that's just not true.  On average, it takes 10-11 points of willpower to activate one additional talent per combat and even that applies mostly to pre-level 12, when a 2hander should pick up death blow.  There's nothing wrong with putting points in willpower - or anywhere else - for those who dislike min/maxing but it's a personal preference.

[ezrafetch]

Pysces wrote...

I ended up settling for a Dual Wield Warrior. It felt the most kosher in a way. You have two characters setup for Two Handed already,so I figured why miss the opportunity to play with them without a serious case of the deja vu.

No, this is where you respec and have a 2H party-fest with FOUR 2H Warriors!!!!  2H Sweeps and Sunders flying around everywhere?  Huzzah!