180 réponses à ce sujet

[Loc'n'lol]

David Gaider wrote...

One question I have though is with the exaggerated flashbacks- how does inventory and such work there? Or just in general with the flashbacks? Will our inventory constantly be emptied or generically restocked throughout each of the flashbacks?

I'm not sure what you're asking. I think you're making an assumption which I'm not following, and asking a question based on that? Either way, I doubt the flashbacks work quite like you think they do.

I think the question is like : since those "exagerated" flashbacks are not real, does what you do there have an impact on the more authentic version of the story. A good comparison would be the fade in DAO, when you are in the fade in DAO, there is no loot that carries over to when you return to your physical body (although you can use your material inventory in the fade somehow, probably for simplification). At most you may find temporary healing items to help you, but they will disappear when you leave the fade.

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 18 août 2010 - 03:07 .

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
Well something along the lines of the approval system- some sort of numerical indication or way to quantify what cumulative personality your Hawke was taking. I'm not a big fan of shoving the mechanics and such on screen, but sometimes its better than keeping them hidden and ending up confused as to why things are playing out a given way...

No, there's no indication of what your current dominant personality is other than what you're seeing play out on-screen. This is a simple number tracked behind the scenes (though "switching" personalities takes a few more choices each time you do it, to avoid the appearance of schizophrenia).

At least, that's how it works right now. As with other things if our testing proves that people have a hard time wrapping their heads around the mechanic we might have to give more feedback. As it is, my feeling is that this is purely a story mechanic and thus not one we really want people to "game".

We still show the approval meter for followers, as before... although approval itself has changed somewhat (heh, I'll just throw that nugget out there for fun).

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...
I think the question is like : since those "exagerated" flashbacks are not real, does what you do there have an impact on the more authentic version of the story.

Err... no, they don't. But I'd wait until you actually see them to start worrying about it, as you won't expect them to.

nightcobra8928 wrote...
so if i choose a lot of "good" character choices but also choices that make hawke sound like a commanding officer, will these mix and alter hawke's dialogue or will the game choose the more dominant one even if they're pretty close with each other in numbers?

It will choose the one your choose most often. But keep in mind this is just for situations when we need to figure out what tone you actually take in order to use it-- very often you'll be able to speak with whatever tone you like from the choices available.

Modifié par David Gaider, 18 août 2010 - 03:15 .

[nightcobra]

about the approval system, is it possible that even if a party member doesn't like you,  can they  actually grow to respect you?
for example: a selfish party member grows to respect my dedication to do good or something like that.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 18 août 2010 - 03:14 .

[Oblivious]

Not that worried about the tone since I'm sure I won't be the only smartass their first 5 playthroughs but I am curious as to how the tone translates into other responses. For example, if a good character takes a response that has them threaten someone and cut off a limb would the character do it all in a nice, soothing manner? Or would he shout it like a bad character would usually do? Or, and this is the most important one, if a smartass were to select that option would he make a joke and "laugh out loud"?

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...

We still show the approval meter for followers, as before... although approval itself has changed somewhat (heh, I'll just throw that nugget out there for fun).

I'm guessing you're referring to the whole "negative" approval aspect thats been hinted at  in some previews? Sort of like Alpha Protocol- so you don't end up gaming the approval system with certain companions just to get the bonuses, but rather can have them "disapprove" and end up in a more antagonistic relationship but have them still get "bonuses" or something? That, combined with way fewer throwaway gifts, so that you can't make Alistair your friend by spamming dog bone gifts to him? But having more plot related gifts, like Morrigan's mirror?

My one question regarding the whole relationship aspect of DA2 is this: For instance, my Cousland often did things that Morrigan may have disapproved of, yet through conversations and Morrigan's quest gifts, my Cousland was able to romance her and keep her approval high. Is that sort of thing still possile in DA2 or would a "nice" Hawke be screwed if he was trying to be friends with a more "evil" companion and be stuck with them being in an antagonistic relationship seeing as there are fewer chances to boost approval?

I just look at it this way sort of: will the PC and companions be able to get along even if they have different world views? Like for instance, a conservative Republican can be good friends with a Liberal Democrat even if they have totally different political views. Like my humanitarian Cousland could romance and be good friends with the more pragmatic, harsh Morrigan. Or will the new approval system kind of force relationships to one extreme?

Or should I just wait for gameplay videos to explain this all much more succinctly than is possible through text on the internet?

Modifié par Brockololly, 18 août 2010 - 03:28 .

[Andraste_Reborn]

Can I just say that the response tracking is one of the best ideas for DA2 I've seen so far?



It's such a minor things in many ways, but I'd love playing a game where my noble warrior and my crafty mage don't say precisely the same things every time. Tracking it over time sounds good, too - maybe my warrior becomes an angrier person over the course of the game, or something, and her dialogue can reflect that.

[Thiefy]

David Gaider wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Well something along the lines of the approval system- some sort of numerical indication or way to quantify what cumulative personality your Hawke was taking. I'm not a big fan of shoving the mechanics and such on screen, but sometimes its better than keeping them hidden and ending up confused as to why things are playing out a given way...

No, there's no indication of what your current dominant personality is other than what you're seeing play out on-screen. This is a simple number tracked behind the scenes (though "switching" personalities takes a few more choices each time you do it, to avoid the appearance of schizophrenia).

At least, that's how it works right now. As with other things if our testing proves that people have a hard time wrapping their heads around the mechanic we might have to give more feedback. As it is, my feeling is that this is

sounds kind of like, for example, if you play as a "good" character, then dialouge options that are "Evil" won't be opened up to you unless you act/speak towards that direction for quite a few actions, at which point in time you would no longer be considered "good". or at least that's what i could come up with... i know in the NWN games you don't always get the evil options for dialouge branches off the bat if you play as a neutral unless you actually say some "evil" things before hand.

[TimelordDC]

David Gaider wrote...

Personally, I think austere means clean and uncluttered. I know you guys have only really seen the Blightlands so far (ready for something else, yet?) but to me the new areas look quite striking. Part of it is the new lighting system (as a non-artist I had no idea what a difference that makes until I saw an Origins level using the new lighting) and part of it is the stylistic choice the artists are making. If one simply isn't open to the idea of something different, however, I guess it might be hard to accept. It took me some time to warm up to it, myself, but I'm a bit of a design curmudgeon.

That's interesting. So, the lighting system in DA2 is different from that of DA:O? Or have you guys improved the lightmapping solution that was present in DA:O? I am assuming we would still have lighting baked into the level?

[David Gaider]

Oblivious wrote...
Not that worried about the tone since I'm sure I won't be the only smartass their first 5 playthroughs but I am curious as to how the tone translates into other responses. For example, if a good character takes a response that has them threaten someone and cut off a limb would the character do it all in a nice, soothing manner? Or would he shout it like a bad character would usually do? Or, and this is the most important one, if a smartass were to select that option would he make a joke and "laugh out loud"?

What you'd need to understand is there are two types of player responses that you're being asked for: one is the "personality choice" -- picture those times in Origins where you're not really making a story decision (take/refuse a quest, decide which path in a quest to follow, etc.) but simply selecting how you say something. In Origins we called that flavor and they didn't affect anything. Here we track it and have it affect the other responses-- the "action choice". If you're taking/refusing a quest or deciding on a path, we're not generally assigning a tone to that response. We offer you options (and possibly different motivations for those options) but how you say them will depend on the personality choices you've been picking. Not all the time, of course, but often enough that you'll notice.

So you may be talking to someone where your personality choices are threaten/negotiate/joke... but as soon as you're offered an action choice it isn't with a tone. The action choice might, I suppose, be to threaten them if that leads to an action-- and thus you could indeed threaten them in a joking manner, yes.

Clear as mud, I'm sure. The icons are present on lines to offer some context to the player, as otherwise paraphrases could lead to some surprises, but as I said before the idea is to allow the player to craft her own personality.

[Oblivious]

Yea that cleared it up. Thanks dude, this is even better than I thought

[Shepard Lives]

The response tracking sounds awesome. Also I like that bit about the new lighting.



And David- you are going to regret that nugget you threw. In an hour, ninety gazillion threads are going to pop up saying "THEY ARE DUMBING DOWN THE APPROVAL SYSTEM! THEY ARE CHANGING THE APPROVAL SYSTEM TO MAKE IT WORSE! RRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGHHH" and all that jive. You should know better than giving the forum mysterious hints about changes to core mechanics- we are not mature or long-sighted enough to calmly evaluate your declarations.

[MerinTB]

David Gaider wrote...

Oblivious wrote...
Not that worried about the tone since I'm sure I won't be the only smartass their first 5 playthroughs but I am curious as to how the tone translates into other responses. For example, if a good character takes a response that has them threaten someone and cut off a limb would the character do it all in a nice, soothing manner? Or would he shout it like a bad character would usually do? Or, and this is the most important one, if a smartass were to select that option would he make a joke and "laugh out loud"?

What you'd need to understand is there are two types of player responses that you're being asked for: one is the "personality choice" -- picture those times in Origins where you're not really making a story decision (take/refuse a quest, decide which path in a quest to follow, etc.) but simply selecting how you say something. In Origins we called that flavor and they didn't affect anything. Here we track it and have it affect the other responses-- the "action choice". If you're taking/refusing a quest or deciding on a path, we're not generally assigning a tone to that response. We offer you options (and possibly different motivations for those options) but how you say them will depend on the personality choices you've been picking. Not all the time, of course, but often enough that you'll notice.

So you may be talking to someone where your personality choices are threaten/negotiate/joke... but as soon as you're offered an action choice it isn't with a tone. The action choice might, I suppose, be to threaten them if that leads to an action-- and thus you could indeed threaten them in a joking manner, yes.

Clear as mud, I'm sure. The icons are present on lines to offer some context to the player, as otherwise paraphrases could lead to some surprises, but as I said before the idea is to allow the player to craft her own personality.

No, no, that was a good explanation.

I'll add this to my pile of "this is good news about DA2" and keep wishing as hard as I can for more good news so I can balance the scales.

I'm hesitant how, on execution, this will work... but I still do trust that you guys are building the best game you can, and BioWare has excellent quality to their finished products, so I'll trust that it'll work fine.

[Maverick827]

David Gaider wrote...

Personally, I think austere means clean and uncluttered. I know you guys have only really seen the Blightlands so far (ready for something else, yet?) but to me the new areas look quite striking. Part of it is the new lighting system (as a non-artist I had no idea what a difference that makes until I saw an Origins level using the new lighting) and part of it is the stylistic choice the artists are making. If one simply isn't open to the idea of something different, however, I guess it might be hard to accept. It took me some time to warm up to it, myself, but I'm a bit of a design curmudgeon.

This might be unrelated, but when did this new lightning system come into play?  I felt that the Awakenings environments were much better than those in Origins, but I couldn't quite put my finger on why.

Then again, I've played Origins : Awakenings probably 20 : 1 times, so it could just be because it's still new.

[Thatdude88]

One question I have though is with the
exaggerated flashbacks- how does inventory and such work there? Or just
in general with the flashbacks? Will our inventory constantly be emptied
or generically restocked throughout each of the flashbacks?

I'm
not sure what you're asking. I think you're making an assumption which
I'm not following, and asking a question based on that? Either way,
I doubt the flashbacks work quite like you think they do.

I think what was meant here is that ign review states that you start out a bad ass kicking ass then it cuts to varic and he is told hes exaggerating then you are a much weaker character with less equipment

For there to be a 10 year period I imagine theirs time jumps so we can assume that if time jumps a year or 2 that the inventory isnt going to remain the exact same so will we be losing items and having items thrown into our inventory randomly ?

[Inzhuna]

Wow, this personality tracking sounds awesome!

[Saibh]

Now, I was excited for the game, in a "I know it will be good, I love BioWare", yadda yadda, generic sense, right?



But, oooh! This personality tracker thing sounds fantastic! I'm excited! I didn't find the trailer particularly exciting, just interesting...this makes me want the game now...which is slightly bad, since I'm going to have to wait...

[Vandrayke]

Saibh wrote...

Now, I was excited for the game, in a "I know it will be good, I love BioWare", yadda yadda, generic sense, right?

But, oooh! This personality tracker thing sounds fantastic! I'm excited! I didn't find the trailer particularly exciting, just interesting...this makes me want the game now...which is slightly bad, since I'm going to have to wait...

Same for me.  The personality tracker and the possibility of more epic combat leaves me wanting more, for sure!

[Apollo Starflare]

Loving the sound of the personality tracking, I remember a lot of people having issues with the way in ME if you picked a certain dialogue choice you would say something completely out of character, yet you had no idea it would sound that way.



I am amazed people are still carping on about 'hack and slash' combat though. There have been other previews that quite clearly said the combat is remaining the same, with an increase in the response and smoothness of commands/movement. It will still be tactical, you still have all the tactics options, the pc version is even confirmed as having a version of the tactical camera (albeit changed a bit). People saying it will be like Assassin's Creed II just make me facepalm.

[mr_luga]

I'm still confused but my mind is simple. I'll need to acually see it in progress to know how it is

[Brockololly]

The personality tracking thing sounds interesting, but I'm somewhat worried it may railroad you into playing as a certain type of character. Like if my guy is sarcastic most of the time but say there is a certain instance he doesn't want to jokingly threaten somebody, but actually slam some heads, that angry action wouldn't be available? I guess it comes down to the devs determining the significance of the scene as to when its ok for the personality to dictate things versus when the full range of options should be open.



Sounds neat, but I just hope it doesn't cause Hawke to get too one dimensional or to take away too much agency from the player. Sometimes I want my PC to be a little schizophrenic!

[Vandrayke]

Brockololly wrote...

The personality tracking thing sounds interesting, but I'm somewhat worried it may railroad you into playing as a certain type of character. Like if my guy is sarcastic most of the time but say there is a certain instance he doesn't want to jokingly threaten somebody, but actually slam some heads, that angry action wouldn't be available? I guess it comes down to the devs determining the significance of the scene as to when its ok for the personality to dictate things versus when the full range of options should be open.

Sounds neat, but I just hope it doesn't cause Hawke to get too one dimensional or to take away too much agency from the player. Sometimes I want my PC to be a little schizophrenic!

I think the point of this is to not jar the character by forcing them to select out-of-character options.  Upon replaying Jade Empire I noticed that you could select closed fist options a good amount of the time but while discussing certain quest options, you could only pick "quest-discussing polite" as your general response.  This can be even more jarring when the character is voiced.  You spend 75% of the game with a contemptuous sneer on your face and demean everyone, and then all of a sudden you HAVE to say, "Tell me, where might I find this widget in the forest?"   

Obviously, you can't eliminate this issue, but you can limit it.  I think the tone option is a good idea.  

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
The personality tracking thing sounds interesting, but I'm somewhat worried it may railroad you into playing as a certain type of character. Like if my guy is sarcastic most of the time but say there is a certain instance he doesn't want to jokingly threaten somebody, but actually slam some heads, that angry action wouldn't be available? I guess it comes down to the devs determining the significance of the scene as to when its ok for the personality to dictate things versus when the full range of options should be open.

Right. Whenever you're presented personality options, you're always going to get them all. It's when you get the action options that you will see the personality pop up-- but even then, we're going to take the situation into account. If something sad just happened we're not going to have you cracking wise (as a for instance). If there's a question in our heads of motivation (as in it's not clear from the paraphrase why the player is taking an action, in situations where the motivation could be really different even if the action is the same) then we'll list those action options separately.

Ultimately, though, it's down to the writing. Trust us?

[Brockololly]

I'm just thinking in terms of RP- say for example if I want my Hawke to be sarcastic and a joker but he may only be that way with those in his party or people he knows. But as a result, his personality becomes "sarcastic." Yet when dealing with strangers or people he isn't familiar with, he may be a bit of an ass.

Will the "personality tracking" allow for such nuance? Or will it just stick you with the joking response/action even when you want your PC to bash some skulls or be a bastard?

Edit: Ninja'd by Gaider.....I guess I'll trust the writers on this one....

Modifié par Brockololly, 18 août 2010 - 06:06 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Brockololly wrote...

The personality tracking thing sounds interesting, but I'm somewhat worried it may railroad you into playing as a certain type of character. Like if my guy is sarcastic most of the time but say there is a certain instance he doesn't want to jokingly threaten somebody, but actually slam some heads, that angry action wouldn't be available? I guess it comes down to the devs determining the significance of the scene as to when its ok for the personality to dictate things versus when the full range of options should be open.

Sounds neat, but I just hope it doesn't cause Hawke to get too one dimensional or to take away too much agency from the player. Sometimes I want my PC to be a little schizophrenic!

The way I understood it they were taking care to make it so the new personality modifier didn't restrict your character in that way,  but it is hard to say for sure until we see it in action I suppose.

[Dave of Canada]

I'm cheerful that my sarcastic-loveable rogue option won't be removed. Thank you.