10 réponses à ce sujet

[SometimesSpring]

 ...quite possibly too powerful for this game, even on insane.

Robe of Vecna + Amulet of Power + Improved Alacrity

Flail of Ages (main) + Defender of Easthaven (off)  + Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization

Stoneskin + Holy Power + Righteous Magic + Improved Haste + Time Stop

Whack away.

Sunray on undead. Holy Bolt on demons. Summon Fire Elementals, Aerial Servants, Mordekainen Swords, Devas, and Planetars. The only challenge I can think of here is Balthazar/Improved Balthazar. This class is just so powerful, combining multiple spells per round with near-instant casting of every needed buff. I just want to know your thoughts on this class, since I've been thinking of playing it with a party of three (cleric/mage, bounty hunter or assassin, monk). What are the ups and downs? Challenges and tough battles? Do cleric/mages reek of cheese? Do you think this makes Aerie the (potentially) most powerful NPC? Anything regarding the class... please jot down your thoughts.

[corey_russell]

This just my opinion, but a high level anything/mage is powerful (especially if the mage class is high enough to cast a planetar). E.g., high level fighter/mage is powerful, high level thief/mage is powerful, etc.



A cleric/mage is pretty flexible class, but pretty gimp early on and takes forever to level in a full party. Therefore, Aerie is pretty weak 1st 1/2 of SoA, but becomes a powerhouse in ToB. I usually prefer Anomen and Nalia to Aerie as they will get access to their 6th and 7th level spells before Aerie will. In addition both Nalia and Anomen will have their animate dead spells get skeletal warriors before Aerie will.



Saying that, being a cleric/mage as a player character is fun as there are so many things you can do. I don't think cleric/mage reeks of cheese, see the Aerie solo run that Catrina is doing, she has plenty of problems being cleric/mage solo in the early going.



A fighter/mage (multi-classed or dualed) however, is strong in the early going, middle of the game, and late game. In my no-reload runs only my fighter/mages ever survive to ToB. A fighter mage has access to BOTH powerful weapons and spells, which is part of the reason they can get so strong.

[Seagloom]

Yes. Plain and simply yes. When you combine BG2's laundry list of broken arcane spells with the more useful divine magic it becomes untouchable. Being able to melee competently even with one base attack per round is overkill. It's the illusions and sequencers in particular that make them so godly even before considering melee buffs on the cleric side. I noticed this difference right away when playing a cleric/mage in Icewind Dale. Since that game lacks the craziness of such spells as Improved Alacrity, Contigencies, and Sequencers, they are much more manageable. The only classes that come close in my opinion are multiclass fighter/mages and maybe sorcerers or wild mages with all out cheese tactics.

I'm not nearly the BG2 expert that others here are, but that's been my experience. I do like the concept of cleric/mages, but phew! Powerful! And yes I consider Aerie one of the toughest NPCs. I once played a very arcane caster heavy party and she was right up in melee range beside Mazzy and Jaheira. I used her as a tank. She also obliterated anything evil with the three Holy Smites at once combination. That combination is nastier than Dragon's Breath or Comet.

The only downside to the class is it takes a long time to get going. You spend a good portion of BG2 being pretty good, then suddenly turn into the wrath of Bhaal incarnate at epic levels. The leap in power isn't as gradual as I would like, and makes playing the class a drag in chapter two sometimes.

Modifié par Seagloom, 18 août 2010 - 06:07 .

[AnonymousHero]

Not that I disagree, but the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization cannot be used by a C/M.

[Slyx]

This is probably only viable in a solo game, but how about this: Priest of Lathander to 21 (for 3x stackable Boon of Lathander [for +3 dmg, +3 THAC0, +3 saves, and +3 base APR]) dualed to a mage, which will cap out at lvl 23. Could use improved alacrity to get off buffs really quickly. Dual wield base APR for a cleric/mage = 2, add the 3 APR from 3x Boon of Lathander = 5 APR, improved haste = 10 APR for 2+ minutes. Add righteous magic and you have 10 APR at max damage, with 25 str. Or, if you prefer something like the Staff of the Ram, you'd have 1 base APR, +3 more for Boon so 4 APR + Improved Haste = 8 APR for 2 minutes at = or > warrior THAC0 (with holy power, and depending on warriors proficiencies) and max damage with RM.

Now THAT is power I'd say =)

Modifié par Slyx, 18 août 2010 - 06:15 .

[SometimesSpring]

Okay so no Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization.



Slyx, your build is extremely tempting to try out but I think boredom would shut down that game for me while trying to regain my cleric levels. Holy Power + Righteous Magic + Improved Haste on top of 3 Boons of Lathander while dual wielding... that's so awesome they're still inventing a word to describe it.

[Slyx]

Yes, it would be quite a chore regaining the cleric levels... but at least you're leveling up a mage, and not a weak thief or another weak single class. I got a PoL to lvl 20, and planned on getting a thief up to 21, but have put him on the shelf for now (got the thief to about 14) and have gone with a multi cleric/thief instead =P  No Boon, but I'll have cleric HLA's now, will get the cleric's holy symbol, better turn undead, etc.  Not to mention, much less frustration leveling up.

Modifié par Slyx, 18 août 2010 - 06:53 .

[SometimesSpring]

Hmm I guess in you case the boon issue can be overridden somewhat by dual-wielding your primary weapon with Scarlet Ninja-to after you get UAI. That gives you 3 APR, 6 with Imp. Haste cast via scroll/item. Pretty sweet deal I think, what race is your cleric/thief?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

I agree completely with the statement that the CM is powerful, but why is Balthazar listed as the only possible threat?

Are we thinking of the same character? Monk, only melee attacks, limited amount of HP?

Admittedly, my sorc had a bit of trouble the last time I fought him, but that was because I started the fight completely unbuffed...

[corey_russell]

Balthazar can really clean a person's clock unbuffed due to his stuns/holds he like to use. However, a cleric/mage can put free action/chaotic commands on themselves, and once you have a defense to that he's almost a pushover.

[Slyx]

SometimesSpring wrote...

Hmm I guess in you case the boon issue can be overridden somewhat by dual-wielding your primary weapon with Scarlet Ninja-to after you get UAI. That gives you 3 APR, 6 with Imp. Haste cast via scroll/item. Pretty sweet deal I think, what race is your cleric/thief?

I could use the Scarlet Ninja-to AND belm if I wanted a base of 4 APR, and eventually I could use the Gauntlets of Ext Spc for 4 1/2 (9 with imp haste).  Of course that only allows me that many APR with those 2 specific weapons (or Kundane), but I figure the one thing about Boon of Lath is it's only usable once a day (in the stacked form anyway), so unless you like to rest between every fight (which I do not) it's something you get to use only occasionally.  I love Energy Blades, Deva is great, and there's at least another couple useful cleric HLA's as well.  I figure Energy Blades will be a great support attack for the summons I plan on using against most of my enemies.  4 skelly warriors + 1 Deva (and perhaps a simulacrum version of me from Vhailor's helm who will also be able to cast HLA's) will be a nice trade-off for Boon.