90 réponses à ce sujet

[SheffSteel]

good points
haha

You are all victims of my mind control.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 23 octobre 2009 - 06:41 .

[EvilPistolet]

I don´t know in my head i felt som similarities, maybe i´m a schizophrenic. A few heroes, take on the threat of the great evil rising..

[Arttis]

Not a few.

You need to gather an army.Thats your journey/quest or whatever.

[Hotpepper6]

NO! NOT RIP OFF! IT ALL THE SAME AS ALL OTHER FANTSY GAMES! PEPPERS!

[YDragGoth]

Well it cant be argued that Dragon Age is a familiar world to many other fatasy worlds. And yes LOTR used many mytical creatures and lore to put the whole world together, but Tolkien did so in his own way. He created a fatasic Lore and story. I havent played Dragon Age yet so I can realy say how it will turn out, but of what I have seen I must say its nothing new and "fresh"

[JTwizzy88]

EvilPistolet wrote...

I don´t know in my head i felt som similarities, maybe i´m a schizophrenic. A few heroes, take on the threat of the great evil rising..

What new style plotline would you prefer?  This scenario may be a cliché but it's a very good and well aprpreciated one for the story of a video game.  Using popular clichés doesn't make a story a ripoff.

[EvilPistolet]

JTwizzy88 wrote...

EvilPistolet wrote...

I don´t know in my head i felt som similarities, maybe i´m a schizophrenic. A few heroes, take on the threat of the great evil rising..

What new style plotline would you prefer?  This scenario may be a cliché but it's a very good and well aprpreciated one for the story of a video game.  Using popular clichés doesn't make a story a ripoff.

I would love a game where the good one´s are the bad guys. everyone live in some lie that the king and his empire is protecting them, though as the story proceeds you unwheil the dark secrets and thwarth and saves the kingdom by terrorism. You do evil things in order to achieve the freedom of the people etc.

Or a fantasy game involving different planets, no sci-fi you teleport with magic devices through the space empire. That would open up for diversity in races cultures settings etc. 

What if you would play as a 50 year old famous warhero and your son is the evil villain, you have to kill your one and only in order to save the world you have grown veary upon...

 There are thousands of unique possibilities to make something new and interesting.

i hope in Dragon age´s case that they capture the good metaphore of the great evil rising from within.. not just the mountains but inside of the living beings.. 

[KethWolfheart]

EvilPistolet wrote...

JTwizzy88 wrote...

EvilPistolet wrote...

I don´t know in my head i felt som similarities, maybe i´m a schizophrenic. A few heroes, take on the threat of the great evil rising..

What new style plotline would you prefer?  This scenario may be a cliché but it's a very good and well aprpreciated one for the story of a video game.  Using popular clichés doesn't make a story a ripoff.

I would love a game where the good one´s are the bad guys. everyone live in some lie that the king and his empire is protecting them, though as the story proceeds you unwheil the dark secrets and thwarth and saves the kingdom by terrorism. You do evil things in order to achieve the freedom of the people etc.

Or a fantasy game involving different planets, no sci-fi you teleport with magic devices through the space empire. That would open up for diversity in races cultures settings etc. 

What if you would play as a 50 year old famous warhero and your son is the evil villain, you have to kill your one and only in order to save the world you have grown veary upon...

 There are thousands of unique possibilities to make something new and interesting.

i hope in Dragon age´s case that they capture the good metaphore of the great evil rising from within.. not just the mountains but inside of the living beings..

That sounds like it would have very limited appeal to the public - which is the entire problem already mentioned.  If you do something that is not familiar people are not going to be as interested.  A business has to survive after all.

What you are describing is PERFECT examples of what modders can do.  This type of thing is best left to modders or those people who can create that type of unique content without having to worry about turning a profit to stay in business.

I like some of your ideas, and would by such a game, but others I do not and would not by a game if that was the plot.  As pointed out - Bioware wanted something new but NOT so new that it alienated people.  They are trying to get as many people to be interested as they can, not just the hard-core or those looking for something totally outside the norm.

Good or bad that is the reality.  Again modders and indies can sometimes help in that regard.  Bigger companies can still innovate - but they have to be more cautious.

[Herr Uhl]

You want half life?



But a thing that has been stressed is that there is moral ambiguity, and from someones POV you probably will inevitably be seen as evil.

[EvilPistolet]

Well, what bioware did is some kind of analysis of human nature. What are some of out stongest primary instincts? Sex, violence and death. They build a game with these mechanics and make trailers full of it

Then they rip off elements from other fantasy worlds add some of their experience from their past games and then twist scramble it into their own thing..

I´m neutral in my judgement, i´m not saying it is bad.



Wolfheart what you say is true though, their primary goal is money, to sell copies and the best way to do it may be to look on what things are popular and what people like, then use that formula..

[Shattered Shield]

wow all i read in this was blah blah blah bash on Bioware blah blah.

[gethsemani87]

Wolf Northwind wrote...

There are 12 stories. Every tale ever told is a variation on one or more of them.

He said it best. And let's face it, we can never be truly original. If we look hard enough, there is always someone that came before, or something that seems quite similar to what I am doing. Besides, being diffrent for diffrents sake is pointless.

Mass Effect was so generic a Sci-Fi setting that you could almost gag on the blatant rip-offs some time. But Mass Effect stands out because it played the world to the fullest, it fleshed it out to the point where you have over a dozen entries in your codex about Capital Ship Combat. Something that you only see in a chopped up cutscene in the game. They also go on about how trade is worked out between races, the principles of shipbuilding etc. etc. What Bioware did was that they gave you a rather generic setting and fleshed it out to the point where it became so immersive you didn't pay much mind to the genericness.
I am betting Dragon Age will be the same.

[thheNO]

@EvilPistolet:



By your definition every book, film and game is a ripoff. I must admit that DA:O has a standard fantasy plot, but theyr setting aren't. Dwarfes who are assassins is not common in all other Fantasy litterature, but here they are(political murder and mysterious deaths is common in Ogrizmmar(whatever the name was ) ). Elves that live in a city just above beggars instead in a magical forrest(even the Dalish differs from standard Elfs). I don't want to bring up more examples, as you probably see my point.



The Grey Wardens is also somewhat different. SPOILERS ALERT: They actually become infested with the blight, so that they can feel it. This is not normal in fantasy books, as becoming infected is certain death over time. SPOILERS ENDED.



And you can be evil in this game to achieve the greater good. You can kill, destroy artifacts and maim inncent people, so that they/it does not fall in enemy hands.

[Mordaedil]

So... What, every game needs to innovate now? We can't have a good formulae that has inspired outside thought, without adding random bits just to make it 'innovative' and 'new'?

I'm sorry, I don't buy into that philosophy.

There is a large territory where ripoff ends and inspiration starts. Inspiration is an idea. A rip-off is stolen content or valuable concepts. Fantasy, comes from ancient stories, rooted in the beginnings of our world, and thus noone can really take credit for that, even Tolkien would be sued by a dead guy if it was liable.

So, the fantasy is a free idea. Anyone can take inspiration from it and apply it as they want in media. That's the beauty of it. But this means taking pieces of art, using scissors to cut out parts of it and pasting it back together doesn't make art, it makes inspiration from art. You can't place credit on someone elses art and when it's still recognizable as someone elses work, it means you didn't put enough effort into it for it become your own.

For Dragon Age, it goes a little different. ALL set pieces that Bioware has used has been crafted by their own hands and they are their own concepts. They didn't take the elves straight from LotR, nor did they use models from someone elses game.

It's their product and saying they are ripping off is the equivalant of accusing someone of breathing your air. You really have no right.

[JTwizzy88]

EvilPistolet wrote...

JTwizzy88 wrote...

EvilPistolet wrote...

I don´t know in my head i felt som similarities, maybe i´m a schizophrenic. A few heroes, take on the threat of the great evil rising..

What new style plotline would you prefer?  This scenario may be a cliché but it's a very good and well aprpreciated one for the story of a video game.  Using popular clichés doesn't make a story a ripoff.

I would love a game where the good one´s are the bad guys. everyone live in some lie that the king and his empire is protecting them, though as the story proceeds you unwheil the dark secrets and thwarth and saves the kingdom by terrorism. You do evil things in order to achieve the freedom of the people etc.

Or a fantasy game involving different planets, no sci-fi you teleport with magic devices through the space empire. That would open up for diversity in races cultures settings etc. 

What if you would play as a 50 year old famous warhero and your son is the evil villain, you have to kill your one and only in order to save the world you have grown veary upon...

 There are thousands of unique possibilities to make something new and interesting.

i hope in Dragon age´s case that they capture the good metaphore of the great evil rising from within.. not just the mountains but inside of the living beings.. 

Some of your ideas are nigh impossible for a gaming scenario and others could work but they actually sound like ripoffs of other ideas.  Hell, your first idea sounds eerily similar to the plotlines of Jade Empire and Final Fantasy 10.  And the idea of commiting evil to do good was explored adequately in Mass Effect. 

But anyway none of this is really relevant as we all know that at the very least, aspects of DA:Origins plot will concern the wickedness and depravity of humans/elves/dwarves as well as that of the darkspawn.  So I imagine your hope will be fulfilled.


On somewhat of a side note. If you'd read any of the background concerning the history of the Dragon Age universe, you would understand the Blight was brought about by mankinds sins.  The pride of the ancient human mages allowed them to believe they could enter Heaven while still alive but by doing so they irrevocably corrupted both Heaven and themselves and thus caused the blight.  So metaphorically speaking, you could consider the blight to be the phyisiical manifestation of mankinds' sins against Heaven. I.E. A great evil rising from within.  Depends on how you look at it though.

[SheffSteel]

I has an idea: dwarf in treez and teh elevs digging and minign. Originalty FTW!

[Herr Uhl]

JTwizzy88 wrote...
On somewhat of a side note. If you'd read any of the background concerning the history of the Dragon Age universe, you would understand the Blight was brought about by mankinds sins.  The pride of the ancient human mages allowed them to believe they could enter Heaven while still alive but by doing so they irrevocably corrupted both Heaven and themselves and thus caused the blight.  So metaphorically speaking, you could consider the blight to be the phyisiical manifestation of mankinds' sins against Heaven. I.E. A great evil rising from within.  Depends on how you look at it though.

Can people please stop stating that as a fact. It is what the chantry teaches, not definitive facts.

[EvilPistolet]

I will make my own game, something unique, and one day it will be the thing others will compare with. Sadly people will copy it but it will breed new possibilities to gamedesign.



Thheno No I have not said that. DA is not a completely ripoff but they full of small "ripoffs" ingredients we see in a lot of other fantasy stories. Though it would seem the example you have given could be made up by Bioware I dont know. What I wanted from this thread was people adding things to similarities between DA and other fantasys as well as suggestions to what Bioware could have done to make something we have never seen before in a fantasy setting. I hope these things you mention are original even though i somehow recognise that of drinking someones cursed blood to get abilities etc.

[Riot Inducer]

Just for a little perspective I'll list off some games/stories that follow the few examples you posted.

EvilPistolet wrote...
I would love a game where the good one´s are the bad guys. everyone live in some lie that the king and his empire is protecting them, though as the story proceeds you unwheil the dark secrets and thwarth and saves the kingdom by terrorism. You do evil things in order to achieve the freedom of the people etc.

Jak 2 -> The autorities protect the people from an evil menace but they are in fact using and mistreating their own people. You join a resistance movement and end up exposing the corruption.
Beyond Good and Evil -> Same as Jak 2 essentially
Crackdown -> You believe you're serving the good guys all along but it turns out you weren't.

EvilPistolet wrote...
Or a fantasy game involving different planets, no sci-fi you teleport with magic devices through the space empire. That would open up for diversity in races cultures settings etc.

Stargate-> Yes its sci-fi but for all intents and purposes the rest fits like a glove
Spyro the Dragon series-> It's cartoonish but it nails your description, magical portals lead to different worlds many with very different creatures.

EvilPistolet wrote...
What if you would play as a 50 year old famous warhero and your son is the evil villain, you have to kill your one and only in order to save the world you have grown veary upon...

I'll give you this one I can't think of any off the top of my head.

EvilPistolet wrote...
 There are thousands of unique possibilities to make something new and interesting.

Yes there are, but you can't exactly call things a rip off just because a few setting or plot points are similar.

EvilPistolet wrote...
i hope in Dragon age´s case that they capture the good metaphore of the great evil rising from within.. not just the mountains but inside of the living beings.. 

Given the lore about the Grey Wardens that seems a definite possibility. But also you have to give BioWare some credit their games are some of the most highly rated rpgs of all time and are well known for making very deep and engaging stories for their games. 

[LaztRezort]

I would oppine that DA is just familier enough, but at least strives to be less cliche than many settings.

I remember when DMing D&D back in the day, the most interesting settings were pure cliche on the surface, but when digging deeper you'd find startling twists.  These twists stood out more, and were more suprising, due to the familier elements that surrounded them.

Hopefully, DA will provide these islands of the unique among the ocean of the familier (and it appears, from what I've seen, that it will).  IMO, that is the best a game can strive for, and still have mass appeal.

[JTwizzy88]

Herr Uhl wrote...

JTwizzy88 wrote...
On somewhat of a side note. If you'd read any of the background concerning the history of the Dragon Age universe, you would understand the Blight was brought about by mankinds sins.  The pride of the ancient human mages allowed them to believe they could enter Heaven while still alive but by doing so they irrevocably corrupted both Heaven and themselves and thus caused the blight.  So metaphorically speaking, you could consider the blight to be the phyisiical manifestation of mankinds' sins against Heaven. I.E. A great evil rising from within.  Depends on how you look at it though.

Can people please stop stating that as a fact. It is what the chantry teaches, not definitive facts.

Point conceded but I think you may be quibbling a bit since it's a recognized fact that until the game is out, the majority of what is stated on these forums is pure speculation.  And considering that as of this moment, there are no other plausible theories (that I'm aware of) as to the origin of the blight this one may as well be a fact.

[dewcrowe]

M_arc wrote...

Is it a ripp off? No

Could it have been more original? Yeah probably.

Do I care? No, it's gonna be awsome =D

Stated perfectly good sir!

[jazzy B 3]

Tolkien was hardly original. Virtually everything except the ring wraiths in his books came from folk lore and myths. Why would you assume that Dragon age is the first thing to fail to be original in every aspect.

[SheffSteel]

Honestly, from what I've seen I would compare this game to the new Star Trek film. It most definitely is not original, nor would I want it to be. Instead, it's an inventive twist on something we all know and love.

[EvilPistolet]

Jazzy that depends on how you define original. To me it is on a whole other level.



Riot inducer. Yes but we are talking RPG´s, I don´t care if Spyro or other platform games have used these themes, I would like a genuine roleplaying experience.

Im getting confused...

Now maybe we should get philosophical: who owns an idea, how can your own a thought? Where does it come from? Maybe it is the only thing that is truly yours, since you made it in your head, what is around us we do not own, one cannot claim the earth and its material as its possession.



Or maybe we should doom this thread. Hah.