479 réponses à ce sujet

[Goldrock]

Romance in mass effect is pretty downright flawed for one this is mass effect action and roleplaying i dont think the devs were thinking one tree hill or gossip girl so yeah i dont think the writers knew how too write in the romance only thing it really justified was a little bit of eye candy was all.

[Sailears]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

I could outright shoot Miranda everytime she does her pathetic little "I am Shepards second in Command, on this ship, we follow orders ...". When the frak did I declare her my second in Command? I can't stand her character. Either she is too ****y or she's like "Oh noez, father paid it!". She's not mentally stable. I'd never make her my XO (unless I am playing my Pro-Cerberus Character!). She is even worse than TIMmy, at least he knows what he is fanatic about about. Miranda is just plain fanatic. Dumbest character in this game and with an ass she won't even fit through the Airlock. Seriously, who designed her lower regions? Dat ass, dat cameltoe? Might aswell have been Ero-Sennin himself laying a helping hand on that "researcher" ...

I had to laugh!

Don't get me wrong, I've actually grown to like her character; however the points you make are brutally honest.

I've got to admit though, of all the squad she is the best with the skills for that role in ME2. I don't think anyone else could handle the responsibility. (Shock horror, I'm actually complimenting Miranda! )

[Fanbus]

Goldrock wrote...

Romance in mass effect is pretty downright flawed for one this is mass effect action and roleplaying i dont think the devs were thinking one tree hill or gossip girl so yeah i dont think the writers knew how too write in the romance only thing it really justified was a little bit of eye candy was all.

Yup, some of my feelings as well. I'm beginning to wonder if the team that did ME2 is even the same team that did the old BW games like Baldurs Gate and such?

I'm thinking those folks moved on to bigger and better things and the rest are assigned to SW:TOR

[Shadow_broker]

IanPolaris wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

IanPolaris: I can fire a slingshot.
Nightwriter: I can too. Theoretically anyone could.

IanPolaris: I have a dog.
Nightwriter: I do too. A lot of people do.

It's just how people talk.

Not in a case like this:

In a field exercise, if you are faced with a somewhat difficult climbing challenge, and your best climber Roy says, "Hook that rope up there; I can rappel down the other side and avoid the booby traps, no sweat" and then another good (but not quite as good) athlete, Hank says, "I can do it too" That's clearly an attempt to volunteer for the job and by volunterring in this way is both getting the squad leader's attention and by implication saying that he can do it at least as well if not better.  Saying afterwords that theoretically any soldier in shape could do it does not negate this at all.

Replay it.  The context is very clear.  Miranda is taking the spotlight away from Samara.

-Polaris

Mirandas job is to inform shepard and give him all the options, If he thought samara's talents would be better used for the second fire team (no matter how stupid that shepard is) it's her job to inform him on all his options,

[Ralnith]

While Miranda is definetely capable of managing the ship, I wouldn't let her do it in ME3 given a choice. Her role as the de-facto XO in ME2 was necessary because the SR-2 was a Cerberus vessel, but now that EDI is no longer shackled the Normandy will fully belong to Shepard.



As for Miranda's qualifications: she has personal issues and seemingly next to no self-esteem, but that didn't make her a bad project leader in the past and shouldn't prevent her from being a good administrator. The problems are the lack of respect (aside from Jacob everyone is at best indifferent towards her) and the still questionable loyalty. So yeah, she flips off TIM in the Collector base, but the alternative would be to flip off Shepard, and do so while Shepard is right in front of her with loaded guns, a friend at his/her back and a swarm of angry Collectors could attack at any moment. Besides, TIM clearly will use her father and sister against her.



I don't see how Miranda made a bad choice when she volonteered to hold the biotic bubble, however. Yes, she clearly isn't the best person for the job and she isn't really needed when the strongest biotic on the team volonteers before her, but generating and sustaining biotic fields requires a lot of concentration. Samara is obviously the best choice for the job, but she will be partially distracted in the process and thus more likely to be shot. Should this happen, someone will have to immediately take over the bubble and since Miranda doesn't trust Jack, she thinks that she should be the backup. She also points out that any biotic could, theoretically, do it, thus informing Shepard that Samara/Jack may be replacable if needed. If anything, it would be Shepards failure if he/she picks Miranda as primary bubble holder.





So, really, I'm not sure anyone on the current team qualifies. Garrus would be the best choice, but he is more useful on the ground leading a fire team than on the Normandy, so making him an XO feels like a waste of talent. We need 2 second-in-command-officers, 1 always aboard and 1 who leads the second ground team.

Still, if I had to pick 1, it would be Garrus: he is trusted and respected by everyone on the ship and has all the necessary skills for this position. The "drawback" of a turian leading a mostly human crew is void because all of the "nameless" crewmembers are completely useless thanks to EDI. Really, their only purpose is to stand around the CIC or chat near the water cooler, so I'd transfer/fire them at the first chance. The only important people on the ship are the ground team (most of whom aren't especially fond of Cerberus, so letting a non-human be the leader is actually a plus) and 5 Cerberus employees (2 of whom would pick Shepard or whoever represents him/her over TIM at any time). EDI would work with anyone, I guess, though picking a fight with Joker might now be a bad idea.

[David Knight]

I see Shepard and Garrus/Miranda as very Kirk/Spock, in a way. Garrus is, w/o a doubt, a terrific fireteam leader. If I send an away team down to a planet, Garrus goes. Period. And I go with him. The captain always goes on away missions, right?

As an XO, Miranda is the better choice. She can get the job done and make sure that Shepard has what he needs to do his job. However, and this is a big however, if Shepard were incapacitated for any reason and the job fell to Miranda to lead the crew, she would need to step down and allow someone like Garrus or Jacob to lead. She has no people skills, which is an interesting flaw and one I don't mind because it makes her character dynamic. Her past hasn't allowed her to be normal like Jacob or Garrus, and as such she should refer the title of leader to them and act as THEIR XO when Shep is gone. She's loyal, capable, and the opposite from my Shepard, which is important. Kirk and Spock were opposites. Shepard and Miranda are opposites. Bad guys tend to get shot or blown up. You need someone to present you with alternatives and other viewpoints during missions, and Miranda fills this role terrifically due to her more cold, renegade nature. So Miranda as XO would be fine.

As for her insecurity, yeah, she is insecure. But not to the point some of you are suggesting. I'm pretty sure she says the biotic bubble thing to make sure that idiotic five year olds playing ME2 understand that they have to pick someone with the force powers to go on to the next stage of the SM. I don't think it was supposed to say anything about her character.

As for her advice... she gave some good pointers, too. Recruit Mordin first, gather the squad before going after the IFF, etc. She has some bad moments, but I expected that. She's not perfect, and Garrus would likely have made the same poor advice moments had he been XO.

In the end, a mix of Garrus and Miranda would suit me. If Miranda stays as XO, however, that's fine, because I always take Garrus with me anyway.

Plus, my Shepard has to take a leap of faith with his crew and give them a chance to impress him and show that they can be better than what they already are. Who knows? Maybe Miranda's capacity for being a leader will show in ME3.

Goodnight, all.

[Nightwriter]

IanPolaris wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

IanPolaris: I can fire a slingshot.
Nightwriter: I can too. Theoretically anyone could.

IanPolaris: I have a dog.
Nightwriter: I do too. A lot of people do.

It's just how people talk.

Not in a case like this:

In a field exercise, if you are faced with a somewhat difficult climbing challenge, and your best climber Roy says, "Hook that rope up there; I can rappel down the other side and avoid the booby traps, no sweat" and then another good (but not quite as good) athlete, Hank says, "I can do it too" That's clearly an attempt to volunteer for the job and by volunterring in this way is both getting the squad leader's attention and by implication saying that he can do it at least as well if not better.  Saying afterwords that theoretically any soldier in shape could do it does not negate this at all.

Replay it.  The context is very clear.  Miranda is taking the spotlight away from Samara.

-Polaris

Sometimes I think it's better to play this game if you haven't been in the military. Military seems to mess with your head, gets in the way of the fiction.

You get military types playing it and suddenly I'm hearing stuff like the lights on Shep's armor are a tactical liability and the gun barrels shouldn't be cylindrical. And I can't wear long hair cuz it'd be impractical.

And you suggest you want your Shepard to dress like Selene from Underworld and oh no, we can't have that, we must achieve realism at the sacrifice of awesomeness.

[Fanbus]

Sometimes I think it's better to play this game if you haven't been in the military. Military seems to mess with your head, gets in the way of the fiction.

Sometimes I think it's better to play this game if you weren't born on planet earth. Being an earthling seems to mess with your head, gets in the way of the fiction.

Us space Orks understand this game much betta den yoo pathetic humies.

Anyway, rearding Miranda's insecurities and personal stuff she tells you, I thought she tells you that stuff in confidence? Don't you think that's stepping over the line given you're in command authority, using what subbordinates tell you in confidence against them?
It was my understanding at least in my two run throughs that Miranda doesn't really give details about her insecurities until Shepard presses for them. I would think that if a subbordinate told a commander personal stuff, and so long as his/her record doesn't have some medical reason disqualifying them from their duties, that a commander shouldn't judge the subbordinate based on that personal stuff.
The same applies to any personal stuff Miranda tells you. I would think she tells that to Shepard in confidence and he shouldn't judge her command abilities based on that. Unless her performance record indicates otherwise.

In my mind the only thing disqualifying Miranda from XO service is when she romances Shepard, but I've already gone into detail about that. Actually now that I think about, Miranda makes for an awkward romantic choice... shoot most of all of the female LIs are wierd.

Modifié par Fanbus, 20 août 2010 - 06:16 .

[Nightwriter]

Orc game appreciation capacity is 500% that of humans. Did you know that? I wish I was an orc.

[Spartas Husky]

Nightwriter wrote...


Sometimes I think it's better to play this game if you haven't been in the military. Military seems to mess with your head, gets in the way of the fiction.

You get military types playing it and suddenly I'm hearing stuff like the lights on Shep's armor are a tactical liability and the gun barrels shouldn't be cylindrical. And I can't wear long hair cuz it'd be impractical.

And you suggest you want your Shepard to dress like Selene from Underworld and oh no, we can't have that, we must achieve realism at the sacrifice of awesomeness.

First. Military messes with your head is true. Only those who dont let it, come out the other side somewhat unharmed.

I took a lot of punishment coz I didn't let it change me.... that much lol. still, meeting my former DS in home depot and flicking him off was one of the best experiences in my life lol.

2nd. Realism is EA stunt, and Bioware's inability to actually learn and improve, they listent o much to damn fans, over every single little thing.


For all the other things, just dont pay attention... problem is bioware, pays no attention when it needs to be hands on, and pays attention to dumb comments.


But... to just be more blunt... what you see in tech expos would blow your damn mind away, it would make fiction look like the stone age at times.

heck, it makes Iron man movie seem like a ww2 tech lol

[lovgreno]

I don't know much about how military, a small warship or rogue special operations like Cerberus works... I belive Operation Destroy The Collectors was something quite outside any normal military way of doing things in Shepards world. Shep has basicaly gone rogue him/herself as well. So on Shepards ship they write their own rules. If Shepard thinks Miranda is good as second in command and can convince the not very military minded and disciplined crew the same things should work.



Not suprisingly Shepard do have problems of getting the crew to trust a Cerberus agent. Personaly I have a hard time seeing how Shep him/herself could trust Miranda as Second in Command due to Cerberus history and the fact that she wanted to put a controll chip, A DAMN CONTROLL CHIP!, in Shepards brain.

[Markinator_123]

Miranda is someone you should never give a command position to (like Shepard's position).. Like someone else says, Miranda has no people skills. She would make a pretty good administrator and is a good choice for a person that makes sure everything is in working order.

[Markinator_123]

lovgreno wrote...

I don't know much about how military, a small warship or rogue special operations like Cerberus works... I belive Operation Destroy The Collectors was something quite outside any normal military way of doing things in Shepards world. Shep has basicaly gone rogue him/herself as well. So on Shepards ship they write their own rules. If Shepard thinks Miranda is good as second in command and can convince the not very military minded and disciplined crew the same things should work.

Not suprisingly Shepard do have problems of getting the crew to trust a Cerberus agent. Personaly I have a hard time seeing how Shep him/herself could trust Miranda as Second in Command due to Cerberus history and the fact that she wanted to put a controll chip, A DAMN CONTROLL CHIP!, in Shepards brain.

When you think about it, Shepard does actually have a control chip in his/her brain lol. You just have the controller.

[Arcadionn]

As much as Miranda is competent at her job; she is Cerberus. They may have rebuilt you; but one right doesn't solve dozens of wrongs imo.



When EDI becomes "free" and you gain full operational control of the ship (likely implicating that EDI could disable all bugs and tracking devices TIM had installed) I would re-write the Normandy's hierarchy.



Garrus would definately be ground fire team leader.



Jacob is much more level-headed than Miranda IMO and has shown he could keep control over his actions even in radical situations (didn't even have to try to convince him not to a specific person on his loyalty mission - while miranda needed a paragon trigger). Also, I find Jacob's personality much more likeable than Miranda's on both leadership and personal levels.



I wish Pressly were still alive.

[PsyrenY]

I'd say EDI makes a great XO now that she is you-know-what. And she will always have the deck, unlike any of the other SM team (who can die.)

Edited for spoilers

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 20 août 2010 - 01:36 .

[Ralnith]

Hmm, that's a nice idea. EDI is always aboard, has full control of the ship and can file all kinds of paperwork in a few seconds. The only possible downside is the fact that she was made by Cerberus and probably has some failsafes built in just in case, you know, something happens. That, however, can surely be fixed by Legion (or just by telling EDI that letting Legion hack her is an option).

[Arcadionn]

I had not thought of EDI... good thinking. (REDACTED for spoilers)
Great XO

Modifié par Arcadionn, 20 août 2010 - 02:33 .

[1136342t54_]

After reading this thread um I just wanted to state that during the suicide mission Miranda stating "I can do it to" and that theoretically anyone can do it is very likely that bioware just needed someone to give shepard multiple options for the biotic barrier. Bioware obviously doesn't want to make it to easy for the player so by presenting an array of choices to the player from miranda's statement would make the player at least think about who can hold the barrier.

[Ieldra]

1136342t54 wrote...
After reading this thread um I just wanted to state that during the suicide mission Miranda stating "I can do it to" and that theoretically anyone can do it is very likely that bioware just needed someone to give shepard multiple options for the biotic barrier. Bioware obviously doesn't want to make it to easy for the player so by presenting an array of choices to the player from miranda's statement would make the player at least think about who can hold the barrier.

Very true. But whatever the reason, she did make that mistake, and we have to account for it when analysing her character. See the first post on this page for my interpretation.

[ADLegend21]

Miranda as XO is great actually, she can multi-task, she gets the job done and she has leadership experience. I like the heirarchy of the new normandy, it's a definite upgrade over Pressley as an XO.

[MrnDvlDg161]

Some of you commented about Pressley.



What in the world did he really do aside from complain about aliens when you talked to him that makes this guy some sort of a brilliant tactician that was a crucial asset to the future of the Normandy? I mean c'mon -- they guy was a pure prop to give a silly excuse that you actully had some relevant command structure on the ship.



Look... its Shepard. Shepard. Shepard.... then " everyone else".



He was more or less a door man standing next to blinking lights ready to be the third guy from the left to get killed by a sparking conduit when the ship got hit by something.

[MrnDvlDg161]

"Sometimes I think it's better to play this game if you haven't been
in the military. Military seems to mess with your head, gets in the way
of the fiction.

You get military types playing it and suddenly
I'm hearing stuff like the lights on Shep's armor are a tactical
liability and the gun barrels shouldn't be cylindrical. And I can't wear
long hair cuz it'd be impractical.

And you suggest you want
your Shepard to dress like Selene from Underworld and oh no, we can't
have that, we must achieve realism at the sacrifice of awesomeness."


Don't think I like this broad brush too much but I respect people's oppinion.

Doesn't everyone begin to nit-pick and badger the game? Follow some of these threads... if someone isn't complaing about tactics, their complaining about consistancy with science, characterization, plot, and about 150,000 other things.  

I can easily say --  " You get first person shooter types playing the game, and all of a sudden you hear stuff like boring dialouge and complicated menus!" 


I can also say that college can mess with a person's head --- or their crappy 9-5 job as to whether it may be.  The individual has control over what he or she becomes transformed by through their own indviiduality --- what kind of internal stuff their made of and their personality traits. 

In this case, a question was proposed about putting Miranda in a military-type job as an  XO so if that was the parameters of the discussion then it would naturally evolve around what  a military type position would require her to do.

Its just a speculative conversation at the end of the day about the game.

Modifié par MrnDvlDg161, 20 août 2010 - 05:06 .

[1136342t54_]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Miranda as XO is great actually, she can multi-task, she gets the job done and she has leadership experience. I like the heirarchy of the new normandy, it's a definite upgrade over Pressley as an XO.

Maybe but I see it simply as Bioware trying to give the player multiple options to choose from for the biotic barrier mission. Even if thats not the case Miranda presented Shepard with multiple options but at the same time not necessarily stating that she or anyone is the right one for the job.

[Redcoat]

Miranda is a bloody terrible XO. She is a walking, breathing example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect (basically, when people are incompetent, but lack the ability to realise it) and if someone under my command started making statements such as "I'm never wrong," and "I'm very good at anything I choose to do" then that would send up all manner of warning flags that this person isn't any near as competent as she thinks she is.

Beyond that, Miranda has utterly terrible people skills. She's arrogant, abrasive, and antagonistic. Telling Jack (who has been robbed of any chance at a normal childhood by Cerberus) that she's "a mistake" is just one of several examples of this. Her sex scene is a perfectinsight into her personality - despite the fact that she has her own spacious quarters, she chooses to shag Shepard in the engine room - a place where people work and where anyone could wander in and see them making the beast with two backs. This is not the behaviour of someone I want as my XO. This is the behaviour of a craven attention **** with deep-seated personal issues.

Obviously your mileage may vary with her character (a well-designed character should elicit strong feelings; the worst thing a character can elicit is a shrug and a "meh"), but Miranda grated on my nerves from the start. The fact that her "assets" are constantly shoved in your face every time you talk to her was annoying and gratuitous, and when she tells you that she wanted a control chip implanted in your brain it cemented a very negative first impression that did not change for the entirety of the game.

Modifié par Redcoat, 20 août 2010 - 06:12 .

[Spartas Husky]

wow.... this is going nowhere.



From most of these, is either. Your imparssial and can asses her skills, Those who know 2nd in command is not suppose to be your best buddy but a couner balance of sorts, or those who dont liek her, on mere principle and she is not fit for any duty.... not even stepping on the normandy





This is without counting w/e fans are around.