479 réponses à ce sujet

[MrnDvlDg161]

Spartas Husky wrote...

wow.... this is going nowhere.

From most of these, is either. Your imparssial and can asses her skills, Those who know 2nd in command is not suppose to be your best buddy but a couner balance of sorts, or those who dont liek her, on mere principle and she is not fit for any duty.... not even stepping on the normandy


This is without counting w/e fans are around.

I'll revert to my squad-bay training and tell you that regardless of the Postives and Negatives, she is still a great addition to my Shepard's couch and rack.

[Spartas Husky]

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

wow.... this is going nowhere.

From most of these, is either. Your imparssial and can asses her skills, Those who know 2nd in command is not suppose to be your best buddy but a couner balance of sorts, or those who dont liek her, on mere principle and she is not fit for any duty.... not even stepping on the normandy


This is without counting w/e fans are around.

I'll revert to my squad-bay training and tell you that regardless of the Postives and Negatives, she is still a great addition to my Shepard's couch and rack.

And to be just as honest. I dont really mind her. At first I despise her....but she does do paperwork.... and I dont have to.... that alone excempts me from some very weird paperpusher mini game that BIoware can cook up.
So that alone is reason enough for her to have her post .

PS:.

Bioware for god sakes, I enjoy her tight legs as well, you got your point across, she is perfect, but in combat is just damn ackward.... little armor DLC?.... FREE DAMMIT,.... pls?

[IanPolaris]

Redcoat wrote...

Miranda is a bloody terrible XO. She is a walking, breathing example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect (basically, when people are incompetent, but lack the ability to realise it) and if someone under my command started making statements such as "I'm never wrong," and "I'm very good at anything I choose to do" then that would send up all manner of warning flags that this person isn't any near as competent as she thinks she is.

Beyond that, Miranda has utterly terrible people skills. She's arrogant, abrasive, and antagonistic. Telling Jack (who has been robbed of any chance at a normal childhood by Cerberus) that she's "a mistake" is just one of several examples of this. Her sex scene is a perfectinsight into her personality - despite the fact that she has her own spacious quarters, she chooses to shag Shepard in the engine room - a place where people work and where anyone could wander in and see them making the beast with two backs. This is not the behaviour of someone I want as my XO. This is the behaviour of a craven attention **** with deep-seated personal issues.

Obviously your mileage may vary with her character (a well-designed character should elicit strong feelings; the worst thing a character can elicit is a shrug and a "meh"), but Miranda grated on my nerves from the start. The fact that her "assets" are constantly shoved in your face every time you talk to her was annoying and gratuitous, and when she tells you that she wanted a control chip implanted in your brain it cemented a very negative first impression that did not change for the entirety of the game.

Redcoat,

I concur completely and it's because of my own military background that I noticed same things you have.  Thank you for explaining why Miranda is a poor choice for XO.  It is essentially what I was trying to say for five pages and you condensed it to a couple of paragraphs.

-Polaris

Edit: I would add that Miranda's initial conversation with Jack where she primps herself up as "Shepard's Second in Command and on this shipe we take orders" is also a particularly painful example of extremely bad leadership technique especially given that Miranda has to know about Jack's background and her likely issues with an overt authority figures let alone Cerberus ones.  Again, complete lack of self-esteem and self-confidence.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 20 août 2010 - 07:23 .

[Spartas Husky]

wow... never knew people skills were required to get people to to their job on the military..... OMG I joined the wrong army.... where can I find the "people person's army center"....coz I certainly missed it

[Nightwriter]

"Miranda is unfit to be an XO."

"Why is she unfit to be an XO?"

"I don't like her."

"Okay."

[MrnDvlDg161]

lol....



I do believe this thread has met its end.

[Shadow555r]

Redcoat wrote...

Miranda is a bloody terrible XO. She is a walking, breathing example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect (basically, when people are incompetent, but lack the ability to realise it) and if someone under my command started making statements such as "I'm never wrong," and "I'm very good at anything I choose to do" then that would send up all manner of warning flags that this person isn't any near as competent as she thinks she is.

Beyond that, Miranda has utterly terrible people skills. She's arrogant, abrasive, and antagonistic. Telling Jack (who has been robbed of any chance at a normal childhood by Cerberus) that she's "a mistake" is just one of several examples of this. Her sex scene is a perfectinsight into her personality - despite the fact that she has her own spacious quarters, she chooses to shag Shepard in the engine room - a place where people work and where anyone could wander in and see them making the beast with two backs. This is not the behaviour of someone I want as my XO. This is the behaviour of a craven attention **** with deep-seated personal issues.

Obviously your mileage may vary with her character (a well-designed character should elicit strong feelings; the worst thing a character can elicit is a shrug and a "meh"), but Miranda grated on my nerves from the start. The fact that her "assets" are constantly shoved in your face every time you talk to her was annoying and gratuitous, and when she tells you that she wanted a control chip implanted in your brain it cemented a very negative first impression that did not change for the entirety of the game.

Ahahahaha, thank you sir. This is exactly how I feel about Miranda. :happy:

[Spartas Husky]

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

lol....

I do believe this thread has met its end.

amen bro....or sis.... lol

[IanPolaris]

Spartas Husky wrote...

wow... never knew people skills were required to get people to to their job on the military..... OMG I joined the wrong army.... where can I find the "people person's army center"....coz I certainly missed it

Then you are wrong.  People skills for leadership positions (especially if you want to rise above the rank of captain) are vital at least in all branches of the US Military (and Canadian too since I have direct experience working with Candadian collegues as well).  An 2LT that shows the people skills that Miranda does (and is not a glorified specialist or technition) will be passed over twice for Major and then booted out.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Nightwriter wrote...

"Miranda is unfit to be an XO."

"Why is she unfit to be an XO?"

"I don't like her."

"Okay."

Actually it is more like this:

"Miranda is unfit to be XO"

"Why is that?"

"Because she is unlikeable, and because she shows questionable competance and personal insecurities that affect her judgement in key areas."

-Polaris

[Spartas Husky]

IanPolaris wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

wow... never knew people skills were required to get people to to their job on the military..... OMG I joined the wrong army.... where can I find the "people person's army center"....coz I certainly missed it

Then you are wrong.  People skills for leadership positions (especially if you want to rise above the rank of captain) are vital at least in all branches of the US Military (and Canadian too since I have direct experience working with Candadian collegues as well).  An 2LT that shows the people skills that Miranda does (and is not a glorified specialist or technition) will be passed over twice for Major and then booted out.

-Polaris

.....man how I wish you could talk to my ex XO.... he would love you .

Either way. It dont matter, I say, 1+1 equals 2, you say 2+2 equals 4.

Both are right . .... I guess.

But you forget one thing... she is not in the miltary, she is a private defense industry... and they.. lol are a very differen't ball game.

ANd PMC's... they are asses , the higher you go, the worst you gota be. That is just PMC 101, charismatic soldiers, never get more pay... because they are most likely to have morals lol

EDIT: this it will be the final post. This is already the:

I am right, just coz, and you are right, just coz.

So compromise... she is a good/bad XO. To each his/her own

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 20 août 2010 - 07:51 .

[IanPolaris]

Spartas Husky wrote...

.....man how I wish you could talk to my ex XO.... he would love you .

Either way. It dont matter, I say, 1+1 equals 2, you say 2+2 equals 4.

Both are right . .... I guess.

But you forget one thing... she is not in the miltary, she is a private defense industry... and they.. lol are a very differen't ball game.

ANd PMC's... they are asses , the higher you go, the worst you gota be. That is just PMC 101, charismatic soldiers, never get more pay... because they are most likely to have morals lol

You know damned well that you can't use specific case like this to make the point are trying to make.  Are there bad officers with bad people skills that "slip through the cracks"?

YOU BET! 

However, if you were in the service and took any kind of leadership training at all, you would know perfectly well that I am correct.  The military does put a premium on people skills for it's leaders.  If you don't have them (and it becomes more and more important, the higher your rank gets), you ultimately won't get promoted.

We aren't talking about troopers.  We're talking about command officers...and I remind you once more that while the vessel is civilian, it's only so on the barest technical sense.  The entire structure and crew of the SR-2/Lazarus cell is strikingly paramilitary right down to salutes and military dress codes.

I'd also point out that even in a civilian setting, Miranda's lack of people skills and esteem issues would be a big liability.  Her skill as an administrator and manager would offset that more than in the service, but they's still give her problems even in corporate leadership.

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 20 août 2010 - 07:56 .

[Spartas Husky]

Like I said, to each his/her own. Everyone happy.

[Kronner]

IanPolaris wrote...

Then you are wrong.  People skills for leadership positions (especially if you want to rise above the rank of captain) are vital at least in all branches of the US Military (and Canadian too since I have direct experience working with Candadian collegues as well).  An 2LT that shows the people skills that Miranda does (and is not a glorified specialist or technition) will be passed over twice for Major and then booted out.

-Polaris

Well, in a REAL war..like WW2, Soviets sure had people skills. You know, the "Not a step back or I shoot" type. Guess what? It worked.

[Nightwriter]

IanPolaris wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

"Miranda is unfit to be an XO."

"Why is she unfit to be an XO?"

"I don't like her."

"Okay."

Actually it is more like this:

"Miranda is unfit to be XO"

"Why is that?"

"Because she is unlikeable, and because she shows questionable competance and personal insecurities that affect her judgement in key areas."

-Polaris

Honestly, stop thinking about what it means to be an XO in real life... stop and think - what does it mean to be an XO on this ship, in this game?

What exactly does Miranda do? I have no idea. She sits there and makes reports. Well she seems fit to do that. She "makes sure the ship is running to specifications", whatever that means. Well she seems fit to do that. It gets done, anyway.

What exactly is she fit or unfit for? I have no clue what she does. You can explain to me what being an XO means in RL military, but I really have no clue what it means on the Normandy SR2, which is a fictional non-military ship.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 20 août 2010 - 08:03 .

[Melra]

Kronner wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Then you are wrong.  People skills for leadership positions (especially if you want to rise above the rank of captain) are vital at least in all branches of the US Military (and Canadian too since I have direct experience working with Candadian collegues as well).  An 2LT that shows the people skills that Miranda does (and is not a glorified specialist or technition) will be passed over twice for Major and then booted out.

-Polaris

Well, in a REAL war..like WW2, Soviets sure had people skills. You know, the "Not a step back or I shoot" type. Guess what? It worked.

But it would most likely have taken less losses, if it was done in another way. 

[JockBuster]

Shadow555r wrote...

Redcoat wrote...

Miranda is a bloody terrible XO. She is a walking, breathing example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect (basically, when people are incompetent, but lack the ability to realise it) and if someone under my command started making statements such as "I'm never wrong," and "I'm very good at anything I choose to do" then that would send up all manner of warning flags that this person isn't any near as competent as she thinks she is.

Beyond that, Miranda has utterly terrible people skills. She's arrogant, abrasive, and antagonistic. Telling Jack (who has been robbed of any chance at a normal childhood by Cerberus) that she's "a mistake" is just one of several examples of this. Her sex scene is a perfectinsight into her personality - despite the fact that she has her own spacious quarters, she chooses to shag Shepard in the engine room - a place where people work and where anyone could wander in and see them making the beast with two backs. This is not the behaviour of someone I want as my XO. This is the behaviour of a craven attention **** with deep-seated personal issues.

Obviously your mileage may vary with her character (a well-designed character should elicit strong feelings; the worst thing a character can elicit is a shrug and a "meh"), but Miranda grated on my nerves from the start. The fact that her "assets" are constantly shoved in your face every time you talk to her was annoying and gratuitous, and when she tells you that she wanted a control chip implanted in your brain it cemented a very negative first impression that did not change for the entirety of the game.

Ahahahaha, thank you sir. This is exactly how I feel about Miranda. :happy:

Very well said.
But Miranda is NOT Shepard's XO, she is TIM's loyal lap DOG/spy. She might think that she is his XO (self appointed) or "second in command," but I (as Shepard) don't remember appointing her as XO and just like Jacob, "You're here because of Cerberus. I still don't trust you."

[Melra]

I don't remember Shepard appointing her either, but I still believe she is alright. XO doesn't need to be liked, Shepard ( at least mine ) is understanding and compassionate leader, while Miranda plays the role of an enforcer.



I think she is doing much better job than Pressley ever did. He was constantly complaining about the situations they were in. Miranda does it too, but at least she doesn't show it to anyone else, except Shepard.

[IanPolaris]

Kronner wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Then you are wrong.  People skills for leadership positions (especially if you want to rise above the rank of captain) are vital at least in all branches of the US Military (and Canadian too since I have direct experience working with Candadian collegues as well).  An 2LT that shows the people skills that Miranda does (and is not a glorified specialist or technition) will be passed over twice for Major and then booted out.

-Polaris

Well, in a REAL war..like WW2, Soviets sure had people skills. You know, the "Not a step back or I shoot" type. Guess what? It worked.

During the very end of the cold war, you'd often see old women around Moscow, St Petersburg and other places sweeping streets or doing other odd jobs, but you wouldn't see old men.

Why?  The men DIED in WWII.  Soviet Tactics and Leadership skills were abysmally bad and a large part of the reason was that Ioesef Stalin viewed the Red Army Officer Corps as a political threat and thus had the NKVD shoot most of their competant officers.  The officers in WWII in the Red Army were often raw LTS or even Sergeants forced up under glass to command positions they weren't suited for because there was no one else available....as naturally Red Army Moral suffered.

Stalin's Solution:  NKVD "Moral" Bridgades armed with machine guns whose job wasn't to fight the Germans but to shoot in the back any Red Army units whose "patriotic spirit" bucked.

The Red Army performance (especially from 1941-43) was a classic reading of BAD leadership and the human price of it for the most part.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Melrache wrote...

I don't remember Shepard appointing her either, but I still believe she is alright. XO doesn't need to be liked, Shepard ( at least mine ) is understanding and compassionate leader, while Miranda plays the role of an enforcer.

Miranda is an excellent administrator and manager, true.  While it's true that an XO doesn't have to be liked (having 'people skills' does not mean you have to be 'touchie-feelie'), a good XO must be trusted and respected.  A good XO needs to be the unquestioned captain's right hand and on-site commander if it all falls in the toilet and the captain is not there.

Miranda doesn't show those necessary qualifies.  Redcoat explained why she doesn't extremely well and I recommend for all those that wonder why I (and others) are so hard on Miranda to read his post.

I think she is doing much better job than Pressley ever did. He was constantly complaining about the situations they were in. Miranda does it too, but at least she doesn't show it to anyone else, except Shepard.

Pressly was a cipher in ME1.  We never got a chance to see his leadership skills one way or the other.  I do note that Pressly as a full Lieutenant in the Alliance Navy and thus (presumably) had at least some leadership training and experience (as a Dept Head of nothing else) to go with it.

I'd also point out that on a "civilian" vessel that's organizaed on strong paramilitary lines, strong military style leadership is even more essential.  In the actual uniformed navy, you are part of a large structure (a nation-state) and orders can (and are) backed by criminal and civil law (the UCMJ for US forces) which provides support in difficult situations that paramilitary/merc leaders don't have.

-Polaris

[Ieldra]

This is getting ridiculous.

(1) Miranda actually gives good advice most of the time. Except once. If you'd follow Jacob's advice, Thane would be sent out the airlock, if you followed Tali's advice, the quarians would go to war against the geth and Legion would be destroyed. People make mistakes. And in her case, it's your understanding that contributes to that mistake as much as the way she says it. See my reply to Markinator for details.

(2) She's reasonably polite to everyone, except to Jack, which may be not as professional as you might wish, but I find it perfectly understandable. If I had my way, Jack would never have been recruited. And don't mention the prologue scene, I do not find her b*tchy, but perfectly reasonable in her rebuff of Shepard's intrusion into her personal space. I'd have done exactly the same in her place.

(3) The game shows us, while she's certainly not on Shepard's level, she's a enough good leader to lead both fire teams. And don't pull out your meta-reasoning - I already pointed out why that doesn't work. Which means, while she does have her self-esteem problems, it doesn't affect her efficiency enough to fail at her tasks.

So, IanPolaris, could you stop your ridiculous crusade and accept that other people experience the game differently than you do?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 août 2010 - 08:47 .

[Nightwriter]

Melrache wrote...

I don't remember Shepard appointing her either, but I still believe she is alright. XO doesn't need to be liked, Shepard ( at least mine ) is understanding and compassionate leader, while Miranda plays the role of an enforcer.

I think she is doing much better job than Pressley ever did. He was constantly complaining about the situations they were in. Miranda does it too, but at least she doesn't show it to anyone else, except Shepard.

[Nightwriter]

Ieldra2 wrote...

If I had may way, Jack would never have been recruited.

You don't mean that.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 20 août 2010 - 08:48 .

[Kronner]

IanPolaris wrote...

The Red Army performance (especially from 1941-43) was a classic reading of BAD leadership and the human price of it for the most part.

-Polaris

It had to be done, no other way. You seem to think good leaders do not lose people, well that is wrong. On some missions casualties are inevitable. You base your whole argument about the biotic bubble on this - everyone needs to survive. That is not true.

[Melra]

Nightwriter wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

If I had may way, Jack would never have been recruited.

You don't mean that.

I would never recruit Jack either. She might be powerful biotic, but I find her personality unlikable. The punk ass kiddo attitude is making me turn red. :innocent: