If I had my way from the very beginning there would be no way for her to being second in command and if she was I would remove her from command and put someone who I want to be my second in command in charge. That would be Garrus.
Miranda as XO? GOOD or Bad ?
Débuté par
Destroy Raiden_
, août 19 2010 12:30
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#27
Posté 19 août 2010 - 02:24
IanPolaris
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Honestly I think this depends. In a ship the size of the Normandy (which is really a destroyer rather than a frigate...the SR2 anyway), the Caption of the ship will need two officers immediately below him. One needs to be the XO but the other has to be what in the Army you'd call an S2 or Operations Officer. The Operations Officer handles most of the day to day paperwork and scut work. The XO traditionally handles Crew related matters (usually though the Bosun).
It's my opinion that Miranda makes a terrific S2 or Operations Officer and that indeed seems to be her training. However, Garrus seems to be the more natural fit as XO....except for one detail.
Most of the crew is Cerberus and human. The fact that Garrus is a Turian is a strike against him. Also given the unique nature of ME2, it's not really necessary to have a completely military/navy command structure. I note in ME1, Lt Pressly was technically Shepard's second in command (but he was almost a cipher), but technically it was Lt Alenko who was Cdr Shepard's S2 or operations officer (and the one who would take over marine missions without Shepard).
My hunch is this: If Shepard is paragon and Miranda quits Cerberus, Shepard will likely keep her as ship's XO and have Garrus be is operational second in command (think Pressly: Miranda and Garrus:Alenko). If Shepard is paragon, and Miranda doesn't quit Cerberus, I think she is "relocated" along with crew that won't go along with Shepard (which will be a small minority) and Garrus becomes the Ship's XO.
If Shep is Renegade, then Miranda will be Shep's XO.
Just my two coppers.
-Polaris
It's my opinion that Miranda makes a terrific S2 or Operations Officer and that indeed seems to be her training. However, Garrus seems to be the more natural fit as XO....except for one detail.
Most of the crew is Cerberus and human. The fact that Garrus is a Turian is a strike against him. Also given the unique nature of ME2, it's not really necessary to have a completely military/navy command structure. I note in ME1, Lt Pressly was technically Shepard's second in command (but he was almost a cipher), but technically it was Lt Alenko who was Cdr Shepard's S2 or operations officer (and the one who would take over marine missions without Shepard).
My hunch is this: If Shepard is paragon and Miranda quits Cerberus, Shepard will likely keep her as ship's XO and have Garrus be is operational second in command (think Pressly: Miranda and Garrus:Alenko). If Shepard is paragon, and Miranda doesn't quit Cerberus, I think she is "relocated" along with crew that won't go along with Shepard (which will be a small minority) and Garrus becomes the Ship's XO.
If Shep is Renegade, then Miranda will be Shep's XO.
Just my two coppers.
-Polaris
#28
Posté 19 août 2010 - 02:32
KainrycKarr
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Honestly, Miranda just doesn't have the people skills for leadership. At least in a combat situation. The crew of the Normandy trusts her, but your ground team with the exception of Jacob is vocally untrusting of Miranda. That doesn't bode well when these are people who are in the trench together. I would place her as co-scientist with Mordin in the lab if anything, as she more than proved herself as competent in a lab setting.
I'd probably choose Garrus, though he's honestly a bit hot-headed to be given too big a leadership role imo. Other choices would be Joker or Jacob. Neither is ideal, but Joker has the advantage of being both highly trusted by just about anyone, extremely competent at his job as well as knowing Shepard well enough to accurately estimate what Shepard would do in a given situation, and Jacob has both combat experience, and a far less frictional personality than Miranda.
I'd probably choose Garrus, though he's honestly a bit hot-headed to be given too big a leadership role imo. Other choices would be Joker or Jacob. Neither is ideal, but Joker has the advantage of being both highly trusted by just about anyone, extremely competent at his job as well as knowing Shepard well enough to accurately estimate what Shepard would do in a given situation, and Jacob has both combat experience, and a far less frictional personality than Miranda.
Modifié par KainrycKarr, 19 août 2010 - 02:33 .
#29
Posté 19 août 2010 - 02:36
MrnDvlDg161
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Why wouldn't she be 2nd in command --- she was baby sitting your body for 2 years while they worked to bring you back to life so although you didn't have a choice in the matter, fate simply made the fact that she was indeed looking after you.
Problem is, you have to look at the Normandy SR2 as a contract war ship. Its not a military ship. In a technical sense, Shepard would be considered Captain Shepard since he's the one that steers its destination and makes the high command decisions.
Garrus is a field officer. He's more suited to be the equivilant of a Leutenant if not a Gunnery Sgt of a special operations group if anything else -- more likely an LT. I think he would rather be tracking folks and popping off head lids with his sniper rifle. He's the type of guy who you throw a pistol towards and give the order to pop 2 in someone's head if they try to commit a staged mutiny.
In reality its the Dirty Dozen gone Sci Fi. In any given moment, any of your people could simply walk off --- its sort of like how the Captain of the Serenity ran the place. Mercernaries.
I'm not sure about Miranda being totally loyal. In my case, I should hope my Shepard trusts here since she's become a nice addition to his cabin and leather couch!
Problem is, you have to look at the Normandy SR2 as a contract war ship. Its not a military ship. In a technical sense, Shepard would be considered Captain Shepard since he's the one that steers its destination and makes the high command decisions.
Garrus is a field officer. He's more suited to be the equivilant of a Leutenant if not a Gunnery Sgt of a special operations group if anything else -- more likely an LT. I think he would rather be tracking folks and popping off head lids with his sniper rifle. He's the type of guy who you throw a pistol towards and give the order to pop 2 in someone's head if they try to commit a staged mutiny.
In reality its the Dirty Dozen gone Sci Fi. In any given moment, any of your people could simply walk off --- its sort of like how the Captain of the Serenity ran the place. Mercernaries.
I'm not sure about Miranda being totally loyal. In my case, I should hope my Shepard trusts here since she's become a nice addition to his cabin and leather couch!
#30
Posté 19 août 2010 - 02:40
MrnDvlDg161
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OR ---
All of us can get screwed all together and have non of these characters become anything due to another plot twist and group shake up!
All of us can get screwed all together and have non of these characters become anything due to another plot twist and group shake up!
#31
Posté 19 août 2010 - 02:45
Elyvern
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I think part of the contention is we don't have a really good idea what are the duties of the CO/XO in this case. As Polaris noted - there should probably be a operations or field officer that's solely in charge of details going on in ground missions, (taking the burden off Shepard) while the XO would be in charge of things like general personnel affairs on board the ship, the paperwork and material requisitions and logistics.
#32
Posté 19 août 2010 - 02:46
Caihn
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IanPolaris wrote...
My hunch is this: If Shepard is paragon and Miranda quits Cerberus, Shepard will likely keep her as ship's XO and have Garrus be is operational second in command (think Pressly: Miranda and Garrus:Alenko). If Shepard is paragon, and Miranda doesn't quit Cerberus, I think she is "relocated" along with crew that won't go along with Shepard (which will be a small minority) and Garrus becomes the Ship's XO.
If Shep is Renegade, then Miranda will be Shep's XO.
All my shepard are Paragon or Paragade, and she will always remain my XO.
Miranda has earned many people's trust, and she's still the most competent for this job.
The only one who has a real animosity against Miranda is Jack, and she's dead in all my playthrough except one.
Garrus is a good team leader like Alienko, but I don't want to give him more responsibility.
Modifié par Yannkee, 19 août 2010 - 02:55 .
#33
Posté 19 août 2010 - 02:58
Shadow_broker
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KainrycKarr wrote...
Honestly, Miranda just doesn't have the people skills for leadership. At least in a combat situation. The crew of the Normandy trusts her, but your ground team with the exception of Jacob is vocally untrusting of Miranda. That doesn't bode well when these are people who are in the trench together. I would place her as co-scientist with Mordin in the lab if anything, as she more than proved herself as competent in a lab setting.
I'd probably choose Garrus, though he's honestly a bit hot-headed to be given too big a leadership role imo. Other choices would be Joker or Jacob. Neither is ideal, but Joker has the advantage of being both highly trusted by just about anyone, extremely competent at his job as well as knowing Shepard well enough to accurately estimate what Shepard would do in a given situation, and Jacob has both combat experience, and a far less frictional personality than Miranda.
Not all leaders have to be your friend, Miranda is by far the most capable among the squad. letting personal feeling get in the way can be very bad as garrus explains, miranda trys to keep this professional and her focus on the job.
She is the only character who can lead the fireteams without loyalty succesfully .
She gets the job despite her feelings towards anyone on the ship, she dosen't care if you sided with jack,hate her, and let the one thing she cares about get taken away from her. she knows the mission is too important
BTW glad to see the miranda hate at a minimum on a thread for once
Modifié par Shadow_broker, 19 août 2010 - 02:59 .
#34
Posté 19 août 2010 - 03:01
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Garrus can also be rather renegade at times, If he felt he needed to he would go against shepards orders
Jacob is good for combat but managing the ship like miranda does he simply would not be able to do
Jacob is good for combat but managing the ship like miranda does he simply would not be able to do
#35
Posté 19 août 2010 - 03:03
Spartas Husky
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CO: Needs to be either complete description of Tyrany Drill Sergeant with bad duarrihea syndrome... or charismatic leader who inspires the best of you, you feel compelled to not let him down.
Sheperd Renegade Sheperd paragon, respectively in order as above.
XO: IN the CO is a tyrant, he/she needs to bring peace, a more stable environment, to make sure those who have thoughts of uprising, see that the tyrant CO is doing so out of necessity (ruthless Sheperd I guess)
OR
Hard Ass, uptight XO, who brings the discipline aspect to the equation.
Either way Either the CO or XO: One must be the leader, the other must be who specializes in paperwork, who knows the system inside and out, who is methodical, careful, sometimes hypocrite, and at times manipulative.
We got the good leader, so we need a hard ass XO: Who can fit the hardass, with management personalities.
-Garrus, military know to keep balance, if one is playing clubs, the other plays spades. If Garrus sees sheperd as charismatic he will quickly settle in the discipline counerpart, or vise verse.
Garrus however is nowhere near manager of any kind.
-Jacob: whichever the way you feel about the hot chocolate or the ****, He is more or less Like garrus, a Riflemen who can fit easily as the hardass thanks to his military training, but ultimately one who leaves politics and money to someone else
.
- Grunt:.......yeah no he is a grunt... name says it all
.
-Jack:.... not "that" type of hardass... we need discipline, not chaos.
-Tali:..... she.... let me stop there, she is smart, talented, and well equipped, but she is no leader, nor manager, she is a bookworm at heart... with a shotgun I may add.
http://ts4.mm.bing.n...ir_smiley_2.gif
-Thane:... assassin.... pretty much describes his qualifications, non of which adds "managing people".
http://ts2.mm.bing.n...ns/th_ninja.png
-Samara:....yeah black and white not really
-Kasumi:....she is a thief.. lol
-Zaeed: His explanation with the Blue Suns Vito deals, is clear. But also same as Garrus or Jacob
-Legion:............
-Miranda:.... Hard ass, minpulative, cunning on diplomacy...
can't find one that makes fun of her really... lol
Sheperd Renegade Sheperd paragon, respectively in order as above.
XO: IN the CO is a tyrant, he/she needs to bring peace, a more stable environment, to make sure those who have thoughts of uprising, see that the tyrant CO is doing so out of necessity (ruthless Sheperd I guess)
OR
Hard Ass, uptight XO, who brings the discipline aspect to the equation.
Either way Either the CO or XO: One must be the leader, the other must be who specializes in paperwork, who knows the system inside and out, who is methodical, careful, sometimes hypocrite, and at times manipulative.
We got the good leader, so we need a hard ass XO: Who can fit the hardass, with management personalities.
-Garrus, military know to keep balance, if one is playing clubs, the other plays spades. If Garrus sees sheperd as charismatic he will quickly settle in the discipline counerpart, or vise verse.
Garrus however is nowhere near manager of any kind.
-Jacob: whichever the way you feel about the hot chocolate or the ****, He is more or less Like garrus, a Riflemen who can fit easily as the hardass thanks to his military training, but ultimately one who leaves politics and money to someone else
.
- Grunt:.......yeah no he is a grunt... name says it all
.
-Jack:.... not "that" type of hardass... we need discipline, not chaos.
-Tali:..... she.... let me stop there, she is smart, talented, and well equipped, but she is no leader, nor manager, she is a bookworm at heart... with a shotgun I may add.
http://ts4.mm.bing.n...ir_smiley_2.gif
-Thane:... assassin.... pretty much describes his qualifications, non of which adds "managing people".
http://ts2.mm.bing.n...ns/th_ninja.png
-Samara:....yeah black and white not really
-Kasumi:....she is a thief.. lol
-Zaeed: His explanation with the Blue Suns Vito deals, is clear. But also same as Garrus or Jacob
-Legion:............
-Miranda:.... Hard ass, minpulative, cunning on diplomacy...
can't find one that makes fun of her really... lol
#36
Posté 19 août 2010 - 03:09
RyuGuitarFreak
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Were it my choice, Garrus of course. Then Miranda herself. Then Zaeed.
#37
Guest_ShadowJ20_*
Posté 19 août 2010 - 03:16
Guest_ShadowJ20_*
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Miranda as XO? GOOD or Bad?
It's certainly not bad because she's one of the best leaders and one of the smartest crew members probably second to Mordin. The way I see it I'd rather have Miranda run the ship if Shepard is gone. But I'd rather have Garrus be in charge on the field. On the suicide mission I choose Miranda to lead the fire team when she asks. But I choose Garrus to lead the distraction team. Miranda and Garrus are the best leaders hands down behind Shepard. Miranda and Garrus are both my favorite characters in Mass Effect.
It's certainly not bad because she's one of the best leaders and one of the smartest crew members probably second to Mordin. The way I see it I'd rather have Miranda run the ship if Shepard is gone. But I'd rather have Garrus be in charge on the field. On the suicide mission I choose Miranda to lead the fire team when she asks. But I choose Garrus to lead the distraction team. Miranda and Garrus are the best leaders hands down behind Shepard. Miranda and Garrus are both my favorite characters in Mass Effect.
#38
Posté 19 août 2010 - 03:17
Shadow_broker
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RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
Were it my choice, Garrus of course. Then Miranda herself. Then Zaeed.
Zaeed: this one time is was second in command of a ship ta save the damned galaxy!...only i made it out alive
here's my order of command among squadies
1.Miranda
1 1/2. Wrex if he deicdes to return to me
2.garrus
3.jacob
4.Mordin (he's a genius)
5.thane (level headed but no leader)
6.legion (he's buildin' a consensus)
7.Tali(isn't bat **** crazy)
8.samara (no one listens to their mom)
9.kasumi( IDK she just sucks)
10. zaeed (lawlz)
11.jack (...)
12.Grunt (he's 3 days old...)
#39
Guest_ShadowJ20_*
Posté 19 août 2010 - 03:21
Guest_ShadowJ20_*
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@Shadow_broker
Let's try not to bash other characters. Like saying they suck etc.
Let's try not to bash other characters. Like saying they suck etc.
#40
Posté 19 août 2010 - 03:26
Spartas Husky
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-CO: Shep
-XO: (usually the manager) Miranda
-Company/platoon/squad Leader: /Gunnery CHief (in yo face Ash)
Garrus
-2nd Company/platoon/squad Leader:/ Quarter master, requisition's officer etc
.....not sure really. Jacob or Zaeed. (zaeed doesn't fit requisitions officer though)
-Field/ Chief Medic!1!: Mordin... no argument there
-Tech Expert/demolitions specialist: Legion,( I love Tali, but come on... Legion is a machine)
-Head Engineer@1@/Tech expert/: If it comes to repairs... Tali is the man... or woman/quarian. When it comes to fixing things, is like surgery you need to be kind to the body/parts.
-...."inteligence" officer/torturer:
Samara
Jack
-Infiltration Specialist:
Thane
Kasumi
-Heavy Weapons Expert:
grunt our lovable krogan (though he is no wrex lol)
--------------Non squad members-------------
-Assistant Engineers!!2!!: Ken and Gabby/Gabriela lol
-Assistant/Chief Medic@@2@@: Dr. Chawkas
-Plumber/cook?:.... lol we know
-Pilot: lol Joker, CooPilot/Pilot if need be: EDI our lovable ship....tress?
-Psychiatrist/councilor (not the "," type of councilor): Kelly
-XO: (usually the manager) Miranda
-Company/platoon/squad Leader: /Gunnery CHief (in yo face Ash)
Garrus
-2nd Company/platoon/squad Leader:/ Quarter master, requisition's officer etc
.....not sure really. Jacob or Zaeed. (zaeed doesn't fit requisitions officer though)
-Field/ Chief Medic!1!: Mordin... no argument there
-Tech Expert/demolitions specialist: Legion,( I love Tali, but come on... Legion is a machine)
-Head Engineer@1@/Tech expert/: If it comes to repairs... Tali is the man... or woman/quarian. When it comes to fixing things, is like surgery you need to be kind to the body/parts.
-...."inteligence" officer/torturer:
Samara
Jack
-Infiltration Specialist:
Thane
Kasumi
-Heavy Weapons Expert:
grunt our lovable krogan (though he is no wrex lol)
--------------Non squad members-------------
-Assistant Engineers!!2!!: Ken and Gabby/Gabriela lol
-Assistant/Chief Medic@@2@@: Dr. Chawkas
-Plumber/cook?:.... lol we know
-Pilot: lol Joker, CooPilot/Pilot if need be: EDI our lovable ship....tress?
-Psychiatrist/councilor (not the "," type of councilor): Kelly
#41
Posté 19 août 2010 - 03:29
Shadow_broker
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ShadowJ20 wrote...
@Shadow_broker
Let's try not to bash other characters. Like saying they suck etc.
My bad i was refering to her sucking as a leader not a character
again my bad
#43
Posté 19 août 2010 - 04:05
jojon2se
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I have one simple rule: The more somebody enjoys bossing people around, the less suited he or she is.
#44
Posté 19 août 2010 - 04:08
Canned Bullets
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Wrex or Garrus would make a good XO.
#45
Guest_ShadowJ20_*
Posté 19 août 2010 - 04:09
Guest_ShadowJ20_*
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jojon2se wrote...
I have one simple rule: The more somebody enjoys bossing people around, the less suited he or she is.
Then Shepard isn't very suited then.....
#46
Posté 19 août 2010 - 04:11
Spartas Husky
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ShadowJ20 wrote...
jojon2se wrote...
I have one simple rule: The more somebody enjoys bossing people around, the less suited he or she is.
Then Shepard isn't very suited then.....
hehehe
#47
Posté 19 août 2010 - 04:11
Throw_this_away
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Destroy Raiden wrote...
So do you guys trust Miranda as your XO going forward for ME3? Do you think she will be a good second commander or do you think she'll stab you in the back? Also given the choice would you have picked her for your XO in 2 if not why not? If you were given the choice who would've appointed the position in 2?
Me I don't trust her it could be the fact she was so willing to go through my emails and spy on me for all I know I had a camera in my cabin! I think her persona is harsh but not in a made to command sort of way she seems to just rub most people the wrong way this cold cause unnecessary tension and in fighting going forward. If I could've chosen I would've picked Garrus his persona seemed similar to Presley's in that he could be a friend but hash if need be.
I would make her my XO in ME3 hands down. She is useful for her skills, and I respect her abilities on and off the field. I think she will be a better commander in ME3 as she is becoming more comfortable with herself and is learning to be less of a cold ****.
#48
Posté 19 août 2010 - 04:16
Throw_this_away
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jojon2se wrote...
I have one simple rule: The more somebody enjoys bossing people around, the less suited he or she is.
Hmmm... I don;t agree. It is a complex issue... but the average person is not Type A, they are more followers. Thus, your average joe/jane likes to have someone show authority and take the burden of decisoins off their shoulders. So, most people want someone to boss them around (but good bosses biss you around in a nice way).
That being said... the ME2 squad is a bunch of Type A overachievers for the most part. I see them as the USA mens basketball team... great individuals, each used to being a star. Put them together and they make a strong team... but they are not as good as they could be because they just are not used to sharing the spotlight. In this kind of scenario you need a strong leader. Makes me think of Wrex or Miranda Types... even Zaeed.
Modifié par Throw_this_away, 19 août 2010 - 04:17 .
#49
Posté 19 août 2010 - 05:03
Spartas Husky
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Throw_this_away wrote...
jojon2se wrote...
I have one simple rule: The more somebody enjoys bossing people around, the less suited he or she is.
Hmmm... I don;t agree. It is a complex issue... but the average person is not Type A, they are more followers. Thus, your average joe/jane likes to have someone show authority and take the burden of decisoins off their shoulders. So, most people want someone to boss them around (but good bosses biss you around in a nice way).
That being said... the ME2 squad is a bunch of Type A overachievers for the most part. I see them as the USA mens basketball team... great individuals, each used to being a star. Put them together and they make a strong team... but they are not as good as they could be because they just are not used to sharing the spotlight. In this kind of scenario you need a strong leader. Makes me think of Wrex or Miranda Types... even Zaeed.
Tali doesn't remotely make me feel of her that way.
Nor Thane. Jacob maybe lol. Grunt also doesn't sound to me as spoil like that.
Jack......I duno she is crazy.
Garrus.... I mean nobody makes me feel they embrace spotlight time or anything.
#50
Posté 19 août 2010 - 05:27
Throw_this_away
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Spartas Husky wrote...
Throw_this_away wrote...
jojon2se wrote...
I have one simple rule: The more somebody enjoys bossing people around, the less suited he or she is.
Hmmm... I don;t agree. It is a complex issue... but the average person is not Type A, they are more followers. Thus, your average joe/jane likes to have someone show authority and take the burden of decisoins off their shoulders. So, most people want someone to boss them around (but good bosses biss you around in a nice way).
That being said... the ME2 squad is a bunch of Type A overachievers for the most part. I see them as the USA mens basketball team... great individuals, each used to being a star. Put them together and they make a strong team... but they are not as good as they could be because they just are not used to sharing the spotlight. In this kind of scenario you need a strong leader. Makes me think of Wrex or Miranda Types... even Zaeed.
Tali doesn't remotely make me feel of her that way.
Nor Thane. Jacob maybe lol. Grunt also doesn't sound to me as spoil like that.
Jack......I duno she is crazy.
Garrus.... I mean nobody makes me feel they embrace spotlight time or anything.
I give you that. But I guess my point is that if they were truly "the best of the best", they would be used to running the show, or at least calling their own shots.
