555 réponses à ce sujet

[Gerudan]

Ixalmaris wrote...

And that the dialogue system is dumbed down is obvious. The icons for the type of answer alone show that.

While I agree with most, that is said here, I can't really agree with that. Bringing the intended feelings and emotions into the dialogs isn't exactly a factor, that dumbs it down. 

In DA:O there was no way to really know, how something the hero said was meant. You had the full text, but not the intonation, not the emotions behind it. So there was no real room for things like sarcasm or irony. 

[Glesson]

Dumbed down PC version? No, thanks! I rather give my money to another company, who actually pays more attention to all their fans, and believe me there are still some of them.

[DragonRageGT]

Brockololly wrote...

ma.sc wrote...

GameStar DA2 Preview

Good find.

Whats especially worrisome, if the translation is right, is how they were able to use a 360 controller on the PC version? That just doesn't exactly scream confidence in the PC's UI or that the PC version won't be much more than a port...

I'll wait until we can maybe one day see some gameplay to really judge the game, but most of the impressions regarding the PC version out of Gamescom haven't exactly been glowing...

I'd say it will be just ported since they're going "the way of the audience". That is a sure method to have its PC version pirated to exhaustion before being trashed by those who pirated it instead of bought a legit version for the PC. Way to go!  Why even bother releasing it to the PC? Do like other EA titles and other publisher's too. Console only... that's the way of the audience!

[Nerevar-as]

Gerudan wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

And that the dialogue system is dumbed down is obvious. The icons for the type of answer alone show that.

While I agree with most, that is said here, I can't really agree with that. Bringing the intended feelings and emotions into the dialogs isn't exactly a factor, that dumbs it down. 

In DA:O there was no way to really know, how something the hero said was meant. You had the full text, but not the intonation, not the emotions behind it. So there was no real room for things like sarcasm or irony. 

And yet a few times I missed comments were harsh and insulted my companions.

[Gerudan]

Glesson wrote...

Dumbed down PC version? No, thanks! I rather give my money to another company, who actually pays more attention to all their fans, and believe me there are still some of them.

The Witcher 2 presentation seemed nice. 

[DragonRageGT]

Glesson wrote...

Dumbed down PC version? No, thanks! I rather give my money to another company, who actually pays more attention to all their fans, and believe me there are still some of them.

Same here! And this is a hidden message from CDProjekt for The Witcher's fans, about TW and TW2.

I think they disagree with this b/s about PC game market being dead and true RPG without "consolization" too.

Modifié par RageGT, 20 août 2010 - 09:57 .

[SirShreK]

RageGT wrote...

Glesson wrote...

Dumbed down PC version? No, thanks! I rather give my money to another company, who actually pays more attention to all their fans, and believe me there are still some of them.

Same here! And this is a hidden message from CDProjekt for The Witcher's fans, about TW and TW2.

I think they disagree with this b/s about PC game market being dead and true RPG without "consolization" too.

yay! TW2!

[Nerevar-as]

RageGT wrote...

Glesson wrote...

Dumbed down PC version? No, thanks! I rather give my money to another company, who actually pays more attention to all their fans, and believe me there are still some of them.

Same here! And this is a hidden message from CDProjekt for The Witcher's fans, about TW and TW2.

I think they disagree with this b/s about PC game market being dead and true RPG without "consolization" too.

After selling 1.5 million units of a game based on a character no one heard about outside of Europe they certainly can be optimistic. DA:O gameplay is more clasical than TW, and that was part of its appeal to me. I didn´t play DA to feel the same in terms of gameplay.
What worries me most is ME2. I really liked the game, but there were so many things absent with the only excuse no one bothered to put them in (helmet toggle, squad armor, key bindings, Akuze, ...) that I wonder just how much care they are putting in their games this last few years.

[DragonRageGT]

quicksilver_502 wrote...

i'm pretty sure its bad developers who release sequals that are exactly the same as the first game. also, as far as i can see, the complaints over 'dumbing down' have all been misunderstandings that most seem happy to belive without checking: the tactical camera, varrics introduction, the auto-attack bug. 

i just think if people got a little less offended and disgruntled and actually, you know, found out some of the facts, there would be a lot less bile on this forum.

They could have said: "We will HONOR our PC gaming background history and produce the very best version of DA2 for the PC as we can deliver, even if it costs us some 1million extra out of our 600,000,000 million estimated sales! (10 million units @ 60 bucks)

But I'd bet EA need to cover their huge losses with other products, bad projects, etc., so their shareholders won't mind those million dollar bonus to high management even with all their incompetence. At least one product will be selling good right?

[Nerevar-as]

There was some weeks ago an update in the Larian forums that extended to the dev explaining how many distributors worked. It was quite revealing of how that world works.

[Kyda]

iTomes wrote...

that bioware is doing something for the console market is perfectly fine with me. at least, they paid for the game and they do deserve a good game with good controls. what i cant understand is why the HELL they are dumbing down the pc version when they already had a good one. i mean, its not like it needs to be changed at all....

My thoughts exactly...

[Mornmagor]

rexil wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

iTomes wrote...

that bioware is doing something for the console market is perfectly fine with me. at least, they paid for the game and they do deserve a good game with good controls. what i cant understand is why the HELL they are dumbing down the pc version when they already had a good one. i mean, its not like it needs to be changed at all....

Bioware is doing nothing for the console market, they are just doing less for the PC version to save money as you can read in one of the linked interviews.

Here the summary of several german reports (gamers, not magazines) from the gamecon.
- Graphic: Ugly, lacks textures, worse than DA:O
- Character building: Limited
- Combat: Action only, no strategy, no zoom
- Dalogues: Dumbed down (ME wheel with additional symbols)

So either Bioware decided to show the "extra bad" version of the game or they simply decided to forget the PC and concentrate on consoles.

The german reviews are the ones we need to read since the PC market is more strong there, it's natural they will have a better and more critically look at the PC version first.

Or more biased,since everyone does not judge a game,but simply states his opinion of it,or what he didn't like,based on personal preference.

For the record:

Graphics : No they weren't ugly,the textures for the environment were close or better than the ones in origins,the characters and their equipment were more detailed.

Character Building : It's a demo,but,i can understand if someone does not want to play a game that does not allow him to be his race of choice.(that saying,for the actual game)

Combat : Action only?No strategy?no zoom?You guys,i think you are being mazochistic here.You understand whatever you want,and then whine about it.I feel like you actually want the game to be as bad,or else there's gonna be nothing to whine about.

For the action part,it was an action scene,from the fantasy of a certain individual,exagerrated.For the strategy part,no one can really comment,but for the record,strategy in rpgs is simple,it's neither a strategy game,nor a SRPG hybrid.For the zoom part,it was not implemented in the demo.

Now for the record,let me say that i don't give a damn about "true" RPGs,as some people here want to call them(may they continue the holy crusade to find them),i will present you with a single game.

Plane scape : Torment.Enough said.Zero customization,every weapon was an axe,no armors,nothing,prefixed character with story you discovered.Still,the best RPG to date.

I personally didn't like DA:O at all.The equipment,the specializations,the armor looks,nothing.The combat system reminded me of a wow clone,and as for the tactical view camera,what a joke,what's the difference of being able to zoom out more and see more of the field?There were 0 plot twists in the game,everything could be seen coming,and the most commendable things were the camera usage for some scenes and some dialogues.

If this is your true RPG,then we'll have to agree to disagree,but although i'm not a "Bioware Fan",i don't think it's fair to accuse a company of "giving in" to the money,when you would probably do the same thing.If every person pirates in on pc,and instead of 1 300 000 copies it sells 750 000,why not switch to another platform?

Modifié par Kuroi Kishin, 20 août 2010 - 10:26 .

[Reaverwind]

Gerudan wrote...

Glesson wrote...

Dumbed down PC version? No, thanks! I rather give my money to another company, who actually pays more attention to all their fans, and believe me there are still some of them.

The Witcher 2 presentation seemed nice. 

Strangely, after checking this thread hoping to see some DA2 gameplay, I find myself becoming hyped for TW2.

[rexil]

Kuroi Kishin wrote...

rexil wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

iTomes wrote...

that bioware is doing something for the console market is perfectly fine with me. at least, they paid for the game and they do deserve a good game with good controls. what i cant understand is why the HELL they are dumbing down the pc version when they already had a good one. i mean, its not like it needs to be changed at all....

Bioware is doing nothing for the console market, they are just doing less for the PC version to save money as you can read in one of the linked interviews.

Here the summary of several german reports (gamers, not magazines) from the gamecon.
- Graphic: Ugly, lacks textures, worse than DA:O
- Character building: Limited
- Combat: Action only, no strategy, no zoom
- Dalogues: Dumbed down (ME wheel with additional symbols)

So either Bioware decided to show the "extra bad" version of the game or they simply decided to forget the PC and concentrate on consoles.

The german reviews are the ones we need to read since the PC market is more strong there, it's natural they will have a better and more critically look at the PC version first.

Or more biased,since everyone does not judge a game,but simply states his opinion of it,or what he didn't like,based on personal preference.

For the record:

Graphics : No they weren't ugly,the textures for the environment were close or better than the ones in origins,the characters and their equipment were more detailed.

If this is your true RPG,then we'll have to agree to disagree,but although i'm not a "Bioware Fan",i don't think it's fair to accuse a company of "giving in" to the money,when you would probably do the same thing.If every person pirates in on pc,and instead of 1 300 000 copies it sells 750 000,why not switch to another platform?

In what platform did you played Origins?

[DragonRageGT]

Kuroi Kishin wrote...

... stuff

If this is your true RPG,then we'll have to agree to disagree,but although i'm not a "Bioware Fan",i don't think it's fair to accuse a company of "giving in" to the money,when you would probably do the same thing.If every person pirates in on pc,and instead of 1 300 000 copies it sells 750 000,why not switch to another platform?

True.. assuming that those 550,000 would buy the game if they couldn't d/l it. But that is the flaw of your thinking because some of them would simply never buy it anyway. And some would just buy a pirated disk on the streets around the world for 1/10th of the retail price of the legit disk, console included.

And yeah, 750,000 copies @ 60buks each... 45,000,000 USD is a bad number for a game right? They're want Hollywood figures now, over 1 Billion USD worldwide?  Well, if they spent 200 million in production they might get it, or not. (I doubt DA:O for the PC sold less than the 1.5 million units The Witcher but...)

Now, since they're switching to another plataform, they might as well stick with them and do not understimate PC gamers! I really forecast a big dump on sales for the PC. I doubt that, like DA:O, it will have multiple times more legit copies sold than pirated. Even if they "activision" the "sequel".

[Gerudan]

Alright, here is a completely different statement about DA2:



http://www.inside-360.de/?p=20336



Summary: There is a tactic mode with a far out camera ("Think like a General, Fight like a Spartan").

[Mornmagor]

RageGT wrote...

Kuroi Kishin wrote...

... stuff

If this is your true RPG,then we'll have to agree to disagree,but although i'm not a "Bioware Fan",i don't think it's fair to accuse a company of "giving in" to the money,when you would probably do the same thing.If every person pirates in on pc,and instead of 1 300 000 copies it sells 750 000,why not switch to another platform?

True.. assuming that those 550,000 would buy the game if they couldn't d/l it. But that is the flaw of your thinking because some of them would simply never buy it anyway. And some would just buy a pirated disk on the streets around the world for 1/10th of the retail price of the legit disk, console included.

And yeah, 750,000 copies @ 60buks each... 45,000,000 USD is a bad number for a game right? They're want Hollywood figures now, over 1 Billion USD worldwide?  Well, if they spent 200 million in production they might get it, or not. (I doubt DA:O for the PC sold less than the 1.5 million units The Witcher but...)

Now, since they're switching to another plataform, they might as well stick with them and do not understimate PC gamers! I really forecast a big dump on sales for the PC. I doubt that, like DA:O, it will have multiple times more legit copies sold than pirated. Even if they "activision" the "sequel".

You're taking it too personally,pc vs console thing.

If there is an option to pirate it,people will.PS3 people,can't.That is the difference.Xbox will always be xbox i guess.But yeah xbox and ps3 combined will always sell better.

Btw if you really think they won 45 million,you're off.They don't get the whole package for the game,and no,they don't get 60 bucks in their pockets for each game either,but still,yes we agree,they earned quite a bit.

However,if they are to survive as a company and continue making games,they will need someone like EA(like they do) and they also need to adapt to the gaming community of today.That doesn't mean they will destroy RPGs as we know them,from what i saw,combat wasn't that far apart origins,just the animations were faster.Other than that,it was a more responsive and fast system,probably will need a lot of pausing if you ask me.

As for the game,what i saw was on pc.And i tell you,if someone is biased to believe the graphics are worse,well they're gonna seem like it to him.It reminds me of people that think 100buck HDMI cables have better screen resolution and they actually see it.

I won't judge this game based on if it's consolized,but based on whether or not i like it as an RPG game.

There are some things that could put someone off buying it,or taking away all the hype from him.For example,race,only humans are a no for some.

The dialogues might appear weird to some,but i don't think they will be any less deep than in origins...that is,IF you can say Origins had any kind of deep dialogue.

In the end,screw the pc vs console gamers stuff,everyone wants to enjoy a good game,and it won't be any less good if it "evolves" somehow.Can you imagine playing a Baldur's Gate clone and enjoying it all the time?

Good games are good games above everything else.If this direction takes off the "true RPG" for some,so be it.Evolution while keeping the roots though,is the way to go.

[JordenKel]

Gerudan wrote...

Alright, here is a completely different statement about DA2:

http://www.inside-360.de/?p=20336

Summary: There is a tactic mode with a far out camera ("Think like a General, Fight like a Spartan").

They must have played another game than all the other magazines, since they already stated that the far-out-zoom is not even ready yet...

[Brockololly]

Gerudan wrote...

Alright, here is a completely different statement about DA2:

http://www.inside-360.de/?p=20336

Summary: There is a tactic mode with a far out camera ("Think like a General, Fight like a Spartan").

Yeah, I wonder if the disparity we're seeing in impressions for the PC version is from people who played Origins on PC vs. those who played it on console. I mean, if you didn't play Origins with the tactical view on PC and saw DA2's view which seems somewhat zoomed out but not all the way, you might think DA2's is pretty much the same.

I don't know- just have to wait for some gameplay videos to make any judgment I guess...

[DPB]

JordenKel wrote...

Gerudan wrote...

Alright, here is a completely different statement about DA2:

http://www.inside-360.de/?p=20336

Summary: There is a tactic mode with a far out camera ("Think like a General, Fight like a Spartan").

They must have played another game than all the other magazines, since they already stated that the far-out-zoom is not even ready yet...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Point of clarity: the tactical camera for DA2 is not complete, and as such, it is not available on the show floor, as it could potentially crash the game/set fire to the building/destroy life as we know it. It is, however, far enough along that we are showing it to the press, where we can keep a fire extinguisher close at hand.

[OnKeLDead]

Gerudan wrote...

Alright, here is a completely different statement about DA2:

http://www.inside-360.de/?p=20336

Summary: There is a tactic mode with a far out camera ("Think like a General, Fight like a Spartan").

Thats absolutely wrong. I was at the gamescom and there were no tactic mode with a far out camera. One of the developers confirmed that already. 

I know we all want to hear that there's a tactical combat system (similar to the combat system of DA:O) but we have to be patient (even if I'm starting to lose hope that DA2 will be anything else than a console rip off)

[DPB]

OnKeLDead wrote...

Gerudan wrote...

Alright, here is a completely different statement about DA2:

http://www.inside-360.de/?p=20336

Summary: There is a tactic mode with a far out camera ("Think like a General, Fight like a Spartan").

Thats absolutely wrong. I was at the gamescom and there were no tactic mode with a far out camera. One of the developers confirmed that already.

As I pointed out above, they're showing the new camera to the press but not the general public yet.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Gerudan wrote...

In DA:O there was no way to really know, how something the hero said was meant.

Yes there was.  You could know how the hero meant what he was saying by you being the one who decided what the hero meant.

Why don't people get this?  If the game doesn't tell you something, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[JordenKel]

dbankier wrote...

JordenKel wrote...

Gerudan wrote...

Alright, here is a completely different statement about DA2:

http://www.inside-360.de/?p=20336

Summary: There is a tactic mode with a far out camera ("Think like a General, Fight like a Spartan").

They must have played another game than all the other magazines, since they already stated that the far-out-zoom is not even ready yet...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Point of clarity: the tactical camera for DA2 is not complete, and as such, it is not available on the show floor, as it could potentially crash the game/set fire to the building/destroy life as we know it. It is, however, far enough along that we are showing it to the press, where we can keep a fire extinguisher close at hand.

You've read this from Gamestar? Most read gamersmagazin in Europe. Never heard of http://www.inside-360.de/ before, since it's just a semi-professional blog. Whom to trust...

As was already known before the exhibition, there will be Dragon Age 2, no more tactical view, where you see the fighting from the distant light air.

This was already in the Xbox 360 version of Dragon Age: Origins not included, and apparently it keeps Bioware for the second part for completely unnecessary. We can use the following from the shoulder camera perspective only slightly behind the pivot group.

[DPB]

Well, I'll trust what the Lead Designer says.