555 réponses à ce sujet

[FedericoV]

-Semper- wrote...

you ain't talking about piracy as an issue - your statement was completely different: you said that illegal copies of da:o easily outnumbered the legal ones. so where is your prove to this? as long as there is none i call it nonsense. simple as that that has absolutely nothing to do with my thinking about piracy and it's influence at gaming business - so don't missquote this!

I never said outnumbered and I do not have numbers off course: I do not work for EA. But I believe that without piracy issues, PC would still be the leading platform for the DA franchise. I maybe wrong but would you respect my opinion?

that's also total bull****! dlc will NEVER be a form of drm because it's easily crackable. heck, it's the same mechanics, so why should there be any difference. dlc is just there to keep a brand alive and to make a quick buck out of it - nothing more

I'm not talking about DLC . I'm talking of PVP or CO-OP content, like Left for Dead or Starcraft 2 (not to talk about MMORPG).

they don't want to attract a bigger market to earn millions, no they just want to avoid piracy at pc... that's hilarious! every console got their cracked games! also the long time secure ps3 was brewed months ago - we don't have to talk about 360 because... well, there's no argument ^^

PC is the bigger gaming market out there. Pc are the better machine to play and imho hardware configuration issues are not troublesome as some years ago. BW is focusing DA2 development on consolles because the sales were way better on Xbox than PC (not to count PS3). They have stated that in a couple of interview. If I do not count piracy, I cannot understand why DA:O on Xbox outsold the PC version that was simply superior and very friendly in terms of system spec. Piracy is an issue for consolle too, I'm not denying that. I'm only saying that it affects sales less because you have to crack the machine itself and cannot connect to xbox live and so on.

that makes no sense. it's not about changing our minds but to talk about a theme with arguments. quitting this talk stating that i won't change my mind without dropping arguments isn't that good^^

Sorry, it's not you: I have that discussion many times, over and over again, with no result . Honestly I'm a little bit tired to read how piracy is good for PC sales while many good developers close the door or shift for consolle/multyplayer games with PC port.

Modifié par FedericoV, 21 août 2010 - 11:22 .

[Ixalmaris]

FedericoV wrote...


I never said outnumbered and I do not have numbers off course: I do not work for EA. But I believe that without piracy issues, PC would still be the leading platform for the DA franchise. I maybe wrong but would you respect my opinion?

Only when you present it as your opinion. But instead you present it as fact and everyone who disagrees with it is a moron. And you still haven't come forth with proof for your initial remark of the poor DA:O PC sales. But I guess you don't have any.

About the inside-360 article, the name already shows that this is an XBox magazine. And like with Gametrailers it very likely that they only report from teh consoles point of view. What for them is a new and improved tactical view can still be a joke for any PC gamer, not only because the XBox DA:O had no tactical view at all, so everything is an improvement to that, but also because such a view is unusual for consoles in general and thus the gamers there have lower standards than on teh PC (Same reason why Halo is hailed as being a great FPS on consoles, but on the PC its rather medicore at best).

Modifié par Ixalmaris, 21 août 2010 - 12:05 .

[FedericoV]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Only when you present it as your opinion. But instead you present it as fact and everyone who disagrees with it is a moron.

Never called anyone moron or used any other offensive world. My post are my opinions even if I do not use "imho" anytime I write them .

About the inside-360 article, the name already shows that this is an XBox magazine. And like with Gametrailers it very likely that they only report from teh consoles point of view. What for them is a new and improved tactical view can still be a joke for any PC gamer, not only because the XBox DA:O had no tactical view at all, so everything is an improvement to that, but also because such a view is unusual for consoles in general and thus the gamers there have lower standards than on teh PC (Same reason why Halo is hailed as being a great FPS on consoles, but on the PC its rather medicore at best).

The presence of the new "tactical camera" is confirmed by the devs (even in today's chat). How it works? We do not know, since it was showed only to the press. Imho , we should wait and see before posting our opinions.

[Ixalmaris]

FedericoV wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Only when you present it as your opinion. But instead you present it as fact and everyone who disagrees with it is a moron.

Never called anyone moron or used any other offensive world. My post are my opinions even if I do not use "imho" anytime I write them .

About the inside-360 article, the name already shows that this is an XBox magazine. And like with Gametrailers it very likely that they only report from teh consoles point of view. What for them is a new and improved tactical view can still be a joke for any PC gamer, not only because the XBox DA:O had no tactical view at all, so everything is an improvement to that, but also because such a view is unusual for consoles in general and thus the gamers there have lower standards than on teh PC (Same reason why Halo is hailed as being a great FPS on consoles, but on the PC its rather medicore at best).

The presence of the new "tactical camera" is confirmed by the devs (even in today's chat). How it works? We do not know, since it was showed only to the press. Imho , we should wait and see before posting our opinions.

Again, "tactical camera" can mean very different things for either console or PC gamers.
Dragon Age was marketed, by EA/Bioware, as "a spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate".
Well, it doesn't look like it anymore. Not that DA:O reached the quality of BG.

Modifié par Ixalmaris, 21 août 2010 - 12:19 .

[FedericoV]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Again, "tactical camera" can mean very different things for either console or PC gamers.
Dragon Age was marketed, by EA/Bioware, as "a spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate".
Well, it doesn't look like it anymore. Not that DA:O reached the quality of BG.

I do agree that tactical camera can mean very different things, but how do we know if it's better, worse or at least good for its own purposes if we do not see how it works? 

I'm a BG fan too and I became a BW fan because of that franchise. So I understand your point. But I also think that the DA franchise has grown on its own and that the devs have all the right to change direction if they felt it's the right thing to do and if they believe that BG gameplay is outdated. Personally, I will buy DA2 and judge it for its own merits and/or shortcomings and not look at it with the IE's glasses even if I love that kind of gameplay and misses it a lot .

Unfortunately, the trend in CRPGs is toward action games and not "rts-like" gameplay. Even the titles that are more praised in that board (PC esclusive) like TW or Risen, are action RPGS.

Modifié par FedericoV, 21 août 2010 - 12:41 .

[Nerevar-as]

FedericoV wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Again, "tactical camera" can mean very different things for either console or PC gamers.
Dragon Age was marketed, by EA/Bioware, as "a spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate".
Well, it doesn't look like it anymore. Not that DA:O reached the quality of BG.

I do agree that tactical camera can mean very different things, but how do we know if it's better, worse or at least good for its own purposes if we do not see how it works? 

I'm a BG fan too and I became a BW fan because of that franchise. So I understand your point. But I also think that the DA franchise has grown on its own and that the devs have all the right to change direction if they felt it's the right thing to do and if they believe that BG gameplay is outdated. Personally, I will buy DA2 and judge it for its own merits and/or shortcomings and not look at it with the IE's glasses even if I love that kind of gameplay and misses it a lot .

Unfortunately, the trend in CRPGs is toward action games and not "rts-like" gameplay. Even the titles that are more praised in that board (PC esclusive) like TW or Risen, are action RPGS.

How do you define Diablo and Sacred? They are what I call aRPG, and the combat is completely different from TW, Gothic or Risen.

I think the Varrick narration is going to be the equivalent narrative frame to the "for want of a nail" one in Origins. Something to make the story feel a bit different from other games.

[-Semper-]

FedericoV wrote...

PC is the bigger gaming market out there. Pc are the better machine to play and imho hardware configuration issues are not troublesome as some years ago. BW is focusing DA2 development on consolles because the sales were way better on Xbox than PC (not to count PS3). They have stated that in a couple of interview. If I do not count piracy, I cannot understand why DA:O on Xbox outsold the PC version that was simply superior and very friendly in terms of system spec. Piracy is an issue for consolle too, I'm not denying that. I'm only saying that it affects sales less because you have to crack the machine itself and cannot connect to xbox live and so on

sadly that ain't true. gaming market at consoles (and you always have to combine 360 and ps3!) is way bigger than pc. if you look around all these newcomers play on consoles. it's cheaper, it's more comfortable, it's easier and the graphics are more or less the same, let alone the fact that 2 systems adding their sales together to one big clump where pc is a "one man army". the good thing is that the pc market is still a big market and therefore cannot be ignored. if piracy would be an issue then not a single developer would create games for pc just to burn their money! that fact alone (plus a dozen others i wrote in another thread) should be proof enough that piracy has no or just a tiny affect on sales. btw i am still waiting that someone points me to a cash-strapped developer just because of piracy

bioware only were this surprised that a "classical" rpg sells this good at consoles and that there is a market for these kind of games. they know that they absolutely can't develope another game with the same clunky mechanics which would horribly fail. so they revamp their engine and focus exclusively on consoles to satisfy the bigger market and the weaker systems (of the whole business) out there. the smaller pc market can live with a good console port - that's a fact proven by the last years. as a developer and publisher you absolutely can not ignore one of these 3 markets (pc, 360 and ps3) if you want to form a triple a title*

*: this only works when the game mechanics suits all 3 platforms well. rts or mmorpg will never sale this good on consoles.

Modifié par -Semper-, 21 août 2010 - 01:01 .

[Niarviel]

I thought people were suppose to talk about their experience at Gamescom, now we are talking about pirating games and consoles? I am confused...

[FedericoV]

Nerevar-as wrote...

How do you define Diablo and Sacred? They are what I call aRPG, and the combat is completely different from TW, Gothic or Risen.

Genre definition are vague terms most of the times and change a lot over time. Even BG I & II were labelled as action RPGs at the time by the fans of turn based gameplay, since it was influenced by Diablo II real time approach in some way. I believe that reviewer use the term action RPGs for games that focus more on action than tactics. Games that (with different degrees) gives importance to player skill and reflexes and not only to the knowledge of the gaming system or charachter stats/builds. Games that do not use any kind of turn based system (BG and the IE games were a strange mix of the two genres since they were in real time but with a turn system running underground mixed with pause). In that sense, even if completely different in term of gameplay, TW and Diablo II could be considered both action RPGs.

Modifié par FedericoV, 21 août 2010 - 01:23 .

[FedericoV]

Niarviel wrote...

I thought people were suppose to talk about their experience at Gamescom, now we are talking about pirating games and consoles? I am confused...

Sorry, my fault. I really apologize for going OT. I should have never mentioned piracy in the first place since it's a delicate argument. Back to the topic .

[Niarviel]

I want to hear about the demo! Post spoilers if you have to! And Bioware...Release more screenshots already! *Rage.*

[Nerevar-as]

FedericoV wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

How do you define Diablo and Sacred? They are what I call aRPG, and the combat is completely different from TW, Gothic or Risen.

Genre definition are vague terms most of the times and change a lot over time. Even BG I & II were labelled as action RPGs at the time by the fans of turn based gameplay, since it was influenced by Diablo II real time approach in some way. I believe that reviewer use the term action RPGs for games that focus more on action than tactics. Games that (with different degrees) gives importance to player skill and reflexes and not only to the knowledge of the gaming system or charachter stats/builds. Games that do not use any kind of turn based system (BG and the IE games were a strange mix of the two genres since they were in real time but with a turn system running underground mixed with pause). In that sense, even if completely different in term of gameplay, TW and Diablo II could be considered both action RPGs.

Thank you. Have wanted  a reasoned opinion for some time. I myself leave the aRPG term to button-mashers, where skill itself is not as important as clicking s fast as possible and getting out of the way.

[RogueWarrior626]

I am on my ps3 presently. I am missing out on so much not having the pc version.I pre odered and paid for DA2 already.Im looking forward to it ,but still somewhat feel jipped already. I.m seriousely considering going out and getting the pc version.

[Hulk Hsieh]

FedericoV wrote...
Genre definition are vague terms most of the times and change a lot over time. Even BG I & II were labelled as action RPGs at the time by the fans of turn based gameplay, since it was influenced by Diablo II real time approach in some way. I believe that reviewer use the term action RPGs for games that focus more on action than tactics. Games that (with different degrees) gives importance to player skill and reflexes and not only to the knowledge of the gaming system or charachter stats/builds. Games that do not use any kind of turn based system (BG and the IE games were a strange mix of the two genres since they were in real time but with a turn system running underground mixed with pause). In that sense, even if completely different in term of gameplay, TW and Diablo II could be considered both action RPGs.

If DA2 goes "one click for one swing", people here will consider it a hack-and-slash game.
I don't see why TW, which is exactly a "one click for one swing" game, isn't one.

[Brockololly]

Here are the impressions from Kotaku of DA2 at Gamescom, albeit the console version it seems.

Seems he only played the exaggerated part which as we know is all hack and slash.

But you've got this quote about the graphics:

The new graphical style is clear immediately. Where Dragon Age: Origins
strove for detail and realism, Dragon Age II seems a bit more stylized,
with the slightest hint of cel-shading if you narrow your eyes, making
the whole thing a bit more cartoony than before.

Meh....not a fan of cel shading or the new art style really....

[Nerevar-as]

As a start, because there is timing, so it is not clicking as fast as possible so much as clicking in the right moment. I leave h&s when enemies come inwave after wave, i.e, getting from one point to another involves fighting all the game there.

What you seem to be missing is that Origins is not a click-swing game. For my part is not that I don´t enjoy that kind of combat, but I don´t want everygame to have it. I already have TW, Gothic 1&2 (3 not so much) or Risen for that. I also enjoy the Origins gameplay and it is nice to have it in a game not 10 years old.

[FedericoV]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

If DA2 goes "one click for one swing", people here will consider it a hack-and-slash game.
I don't see why TW, which is exactly a "one click for one swing" game, isn't one.

First: DA2 is not going that route. I asked that question today on the BW chat and both Laidlaw and Melo confirmed that it's not the case with DA2. Second: hack and slash (in the last edition of the nerd vocabulary ) does not imply button mashing alone, but the total absence of story, interaction, joinable npcs, choices&consequences in favour of over the top kind of combat. So TW is not H&S. Diablo II is H&S. They are both considered action rpgs though. 

Modifié par FedericoV, 21 août 2010 - 03:34 .

[Niarviel]

I would have liked a "one click one swing" method in DA. I think it would allow for a more displayful assortment of melee moves, but from what i hear the attacks have been greatly improved. I wonder if archers get finishing moves now...Imagine epic arrow blowing off a enemies head. Just an idea, mages have epic finishers, why not archers?

[StingingVelvet]

All the GamesCom previews are depressing. Even if it turns out to be a good console action RPG, that is not what fans of the original wanted, and that's the end point. Everything else is superfluous. The original game was a Baldur's Gate successor and PC-focused... this game is not. Nothing else said can really make up for that, frankly. It's just not the same game.



Will I buy it? Probably. I like action RPGs too. I just don't understand why they ALL need to be that way now. Why Bioware needs to make Dragon Age into Mass Effect. Why can't we just have two separate and distinct series? Why does every game need to be the same? Why is every FPS a linear shoot-a-thon like Call of Duty with no other gameplay now? Why does every RPG need to be an action-RPG?



I am sure Bioware will say sales, but DA:O sold great last I heard... they said it did themselves.



Whatever.

[Hulk Hsieh]

Nerevar-as wrote...

As a start, because there is timing, so it is not clicking as fast as possible so much as clicking in the right moment. I leave h&s when enemies come inwave after wave, i.e, getting from one point to another involves fighting all the game there.
What you seem to be missing is that Origins is not a click-swing game. For my part is not that I don´t enjoy that kind of combat, but I don´t want everygame to have it. I already have TW, Gothic 1&2 (3 not so much) or Risen for that. I also enjoy the Origins gameplay and it is nice to have it in a game not 10 years old.

So God of War or Ninja Gaiden aren't hack and slash games?
As far as I know the timing of attack and dodge in those games are far more inportant than in ARPGs.

[Brockololly]

StingingVelvet wrote...

All the GamesCom previews are depressing. Even if it turns out to be a good console action RPG, that is not what fans of the original wanted, and that's the end point. Everything else is superfluous. The original game was a Baldur's Gate successor and PC-focused... this game is not. Nothing else said can really make up for that, frankly. It's just not the same game.

Yeah, I'm sure DA2 will turn out to be a good game, but I enjoyed DAO in large part because it was a different sort of RPG than all of the hack-n-slash or action RPG hybrids out there.Time will tell, I guess. I just haven't heard too much out of the previews and such that have me very excited...

[Niarviel]

I want demo! I don't get why they don't release the demo they have shown all these previewer people and such. Perhaps they will release it in a few weeks. Hardly ever see demo's for games these days...makes me sad.

[cityzen]

Please, someone who has actually played can tell me if the "hack & slash" vibe from the combat is simply due to faster attack animations (with swords moving at very high speed, leaving a trail behind, etc., like an anime or something... (*-*) ... ) and more responsive controls (party members performing issued orders immediatly, or at least with less delay) or has it really changed so you can spam basic attacks and abilities and beat the enemy?



Thx in advance.

[andar91]

cityzen wrote...

Please, someone who has actually played can tell me if the "hack & slash" vibe from the combat is simply due to faster attack animations (with swords moving at very high speed, leaving a trail behind, etc., like an anime or something... (*-*) ... ) and more responsive controls (party members performing issued orders immediatly, or at least with less delay) or has it really changed so you can spam basic attacks and abilities and beat the enemy?

Thx in advance.

Well, I haven't actually played the game, but we know that abilities still have cooldowns and such.  I think the hack and slash claims are coming from people who are playing the way over-the-top section at the beginning where when hit makes an enemy explode in a fountain of blood and gore.  The whole game isn't like that; it's supposed to be ridiculous.  The basic attack (on consoles, I believe) executes every time you hit the attack button but the other abilities work the same.  Autoattack still works the same way on the PC.  It's unclear whether this is present on both versions or if it can be toggled on or off.

[Ulathar]

@cityzen....IMO it's just because it's gotten faster and more agile so to speak. It looks like hack and slash, but it's much more than that. There are way more possibilities that you have than in your usual hacknslash game. It's really fun and the party members do respond faster which is good. As I said in the beginning, this is all IMO.