202 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

Brother3Wright wrote...

My guess, they'll do it like Mass Effect. If you played ME1 and imported into ME2, then all the decisions you made were imported. If you just started in ME2 then Bioware chose a story from ME1 and you lived with that story as if it's cannon. But they didn't predefine your character for you. You created Shepard just as if you played ME1, then they simply referenced those decisions you would have made in ME1 as if it was the character you just created.

That is only relevant if you keep the same character. If the games switch protagonists, there will be no problem whatsoever with characterization.

[snfonseka]

Stazro wrote...

Taint Master wrote...

 Even KOTOR has a canon story.

Well, even Kotor had a canon story, but still you could customize your Revan like you wanted to.

That decision was taken because of Lucas Arts, for every SW game with multiple storylines the "light side" path is the canon one.

[Brother3Wright]

Herr Uhl wrote...

That is only relevant if you keep the same character. If the games switch protagonists, there will be no problem whatsoever with characterization.

Right, so is there a reason to predefine the character? A new protagonist can still reference Hawk or Shepard and the big plot points, therefore keeping the cannon coherent.

[DarthValo81]

There are already canon events that occured in DA1. Things like saving Arl Eamon,Lothering being destroyed, etc. That is all they need to do, there is no need for a canon character really since the idea is that Thedas is the character. It shouldn't be too hard for Bioware to determine what things are going to happen no matter what and tailor the other choices around it.

[Soul Reaver]

[Thiefy]

The only way fangirls would possible agree with this is if you had the character generator allow you to make a potentially LI for Garrett Hawke

And we keep default Hawke.

[DarthCaine]

If BioWare decides to lose the CC, I'm pretty sure it will lose a lot of sales ...

[SarEnyaDor]

OP reminds me of someone who picks up a Choose-your-Adventure book in grade school who then complains that "it would make more sense if there was just one story in it instead of 50."

[LOLZAO]

Here goes a well thought post explaining what i think about your idea of Hawke being canon,so here it goes:Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo......

[Wakara Pezi]

Read my FemHawke's lips.... No! NO! Noooooooo!

I want to play as a FemHawke... not as a maleHawke, thank you!

[steinvegard]

Roth wrote...

Taint Master wrote...
Thank you!  Finally someone gets it! :D:D

'Twas my pleasure

swirlwind wrote...
That's a possibility, for sure. Of course, at this point we enter the conceptual level: what is Dragon Age? Is it just the world of Thedas and whatever's in it? Because in that case they can do whatever they like and never decide on a canon. That's actually my preference. I'm not sure it's important to have an established "truth" about what happened in Dragon Age. I think it's much more interesting to have different player versions of what happened, of course within the boundaries that the writers allow us. 

I mean, we've already seen this in the DLCs. In The Darkspawn Chronicles, the Warden didn't survive the Joining and things happened very differently than what DA:O tells us. In Leliana's Song, her background was quite different from what she told us in DA:O. It's already been stated that in DA2, the whole narrative technique revolves around the legend of Hawke and what actually happened. Dragon Age allows for all of these possibilities without trampling player choice. I think it's inspired, not confusing.

Fair enough. I get your point, but it made my think about any players who are new to the franchise. DA2 is going to be of a massive scale where your actions decide the faith of the entire continent and there will be different ways of doing this.
How will it be possible to tell a new player what has happened so far? Okay, origins is pretty straigthforward. There was a Blight. Your Warden saved us all and then lived happily ever after. Or he didn't. Then there was the Architect. You allowed him to continue his research, which led to the Darkspawn becoming more intelligent and independent. Or they didn't. If you live in the Free Marches the rumours about what happened during the Blight can be very different.
But then there is DA2. This is entirely different, because the Blight affected only Ferelden, while this game will tell us what happens to the entire continent, because the Chantry is everywhere. What will they tell any new players who might want to get into the third installement? They can't just ignore the Chantry and continue like nothing has happened. Unless they make some things canon the alternative versions will be to much for a single game. The choices made in DA2 will simply be to gigantic.

What does this have to do with wether Garret Hawke is canon or not? These issues remain however you design your own personal Hawke. What you seem to want is to remove the players ability to make important decisions altogether. I suggest you look for games that are not rpgs. If it bothers you that people have different experiences with their games, this really isnt the genre for you.

[Ammonite]

I don't mind the idea of *some* choices/consequences being canon in spin-offs like novels comics etc to make the world more "set" and things more easier for the creators, but I do object to the idea of there only being one Garrett Hawke in-game and no character creator.

Even a set canon Hawke would not work in novels and comics and the like. Since you get to make dialogue choices during the game, the personality of one player's Hawke will likely differ from the personality of another player's Hawke. So if you want him anywhere in books etc, he'd be a side-character at best.

If you think having Hawke as the protagonist (or otherwise character with a huge role in story) would increase interest in books/comics etc:
You could give him a canon personality, with the risk of alienating those people who'd pick up the books due to Hawke (thus making Hawke as a selling point moot). Unless you wanna opt for dialogue (both in-game and other places) that do not define or say anything about Hawke's personality whatsoever, or no dialogue choices in-game at all.

So I don't think giving the player no choice in regards to how Hawke looks has much of a point. It does very little for giving the DA-verse the foundation you claim it needs.

Please inform me if my post indicates that I misunderstood what you were trying to say, or if you think I'm wrong.

Modifié par Ammonite, 19 août 2010 - 02:01 .

[B3taMaxxx]

Herr Uhl wrote...

B3taMaxxx wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Why alienate even more potential consumers by taking away the little choice they're given in DA2?

 You say this without having played the game? I haven't a clue, much less yourself, as to how much 'choice' we will have.

When it comes to customization of the protagonist. It is human, and from one background.

They have cut on the choices there.

 That goes to race alone. I am not pleased about the limited race selection (limited? whoops, there is no selection).

 I am staying optomistic that they'll make up for this in other areas, which is easily plausible..................................I hope.

[syllogi]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

The only way fangirls would possible agree with this is if you had the character generator allow you to make a potentially LI for Garrett Hawke

And we keep default Hawke.

Heck no.  I want to play as a female hero, full stop.  I don't want to be forced into the role of a white heterosexual male just because someone else doesn't have enough creativity to create their own character.  If someone likes the default model and name, good for them, but I would be insulted by being told we could make a female love interest for the male lead, but not play as a female.  It would be like being told "We had the means to give you the choice you wanted, but we decided not to give it to you.  But you can shape and mold the perfect video game girlfriend instead!"

[mellifera]

How many ways can I say "NO" to this completely awful idea?

[Enshaid]

yukidama wrote...

How many ways can I say "NO" to this completely awful idea?

English:NO

Spanish:NO

French:NON

German:NEIN

Italian:NO

Russian:NYET

Mandarin Chinese:BU DUI

Cantonese Chinese:MHAI

Japanese:IIE

Zulu:CHA

Portuguese:NAO

Lat... **** it. You get the idea.

[Quixal]

It always seems odd to me to find folks arguing for less options in an rpg.

I am also puzzled by the OP's insistence that there is some fundamental connection between canon and the presence of a character creator. I am not a fan of creating canon but if such is deemed necessary, it has been shown countless times in the past how easy it is to sidestep character personalization to create it.

SarEnyaDor wrote...
OP reminds me of someone who picks up a Choose-your-Adventure book in grade school who then complains that "it would make more sense if there was just one story in it instead of 50."

An apt comparison.

[Koffeegirl]

Taint Master wrote...

Lets face it, Garret Hawke is one of the coolest designs in Dragon Age, up there with Duncan and Morrigan.  I don't think there's a point in letting us make our own 'Hawkes' anymore.

David Gaider said he wanted Dragon Age to have a recognizable protagonist.  Why not just make him the canon character and dump the character creator altogether?  They could spend the development money on more content/dialogue instead and make the story richer.

DAO was our chance to make our own characters so why not make DA2 officially about Garrett?

Well, part of the character creator is choosing your class....I love to play as the different classes.......Hawke is what DA2 is all about. If you mean the default Hawke......while, the design is awesome(Garrett looks totally awesome in the trailer) ,but I do love messing around and creating different hairstyles, eyes etc for my character...plus as awesome as Garrett is.....what about Marian Hawke?.......I am sure that she is just awesome as Garrett:devil:.....right Bioware? Surely since Garrett Hawke is so cool you have made Marian Hawke amazing as well?:innocent:

[RGC_Ines]

Well maybe make Marian Hawke canon? Why it have to be Garret? Becouse You found him attractive? DA2 isn't made only for Garret Hawke's fangirls..."Canon" character is a reason why I don't play i.e Alpha Protocol, I also wasn't interesting in ME until I saw, that there will be Female Shepard available. Im female and I want to play as a female in RPG games. And what about players who want to play as a hetero/homosexual character? Or those who are tired with white, male, dark haired " canon" hero ? If BioWare want a canon, make PC decisions canon for a next game ( like they done in ME2 if You don't use ME1 character), but let me play my game in my way..

[NKKKK]

NO

[MKDAWUSS]

[Corti78]

hmmm... how about... NO. If they dropped the CC I would drop DA.

[Daur]

Hrm, I support a canon, but one like KotOR. A set canon but has no REAL effect on the game or it's sequels, just something you can look back at and compare with

[KethWolfheart]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

OP reminds me of someone who picks up a Choose-your-Adventure book in grade school who then complains that "it would make more sense if there was just one story in it instead of 50."

Pretty much sums it up.  If I want to watch a movie I will.  I don't buy a game to be so limited in choice I am just watching a movie with the occasional direction.

For the most part others have spelled out why this is a horrible idea, and more imporantly, isn't really needed.  There is already some canon.  We have to trust Bioware will balance out the canon and choices as needed for various future games.  I think they have already taken this into account - look at the "canon" of starting a new GW in Awakening, or many other examples people have posted.  As long as they keep in most of the choices you can just view certain canon decisions as another players game.

Plus I think this is more about Thedas not a single character.  We got a "single" character in DAO (the GW).  In DA2 we get Hawke.  In DA3 it could be someone else.

The only thing I agree on is that it is nice to bond to one character in a series as long as that character is MY character, not some pre-written canon character.  Again if you want that watch a movie or read a book.

I also disagree that you can't bond with a character, or NPC, in just one game.  Its not like we are becoming real life mates with DA characters for the rest of our lives.  If the story and characters are well written it creates the bond needed.  I don't think games should be used as a substitute for real life relationships that you want to go on for game after game.

I am not really against canon as long as it is just a "what if version" they use for new players or to provide one consistent back story" versus something forced on people that removes choice and lessens flexibility.  Also it should be used only when really needed.

Modifié par KethWolfheart, 19 août 2010 - 04:17 .