202 réponses à ce sujet

[Saibh]

Taint Master wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Taint Master wrote...

Actually I was just using FF as an example of a successful RPG franchise with less "choice" involved.  FF has become the strong IP it is, because it has canonized stories.  If you want DA3 to have any relevance to the world we are shaping in DAO and DA2, there will have to be a canon set at some point.  I don't think you realize how much extra work and money it takes to build on one open ended game after another.  There will literally be hundreds of variables to account for in DA3 at this rate.

You know, I like the misinformation here.

Every number in the FF series concerns a different word with a different history and different characters. Some of the have spin-offs, but you can't possibly attribute the success of the FF series to it having a canon storyline.

Sure you can, FF has had movies and anime/manga spinoffs made.  It has 2 MMOs.  All of these things are possible because Square is willing to impose a canon.

If DA is ever going to reach that level of exposure it is a step that needs to be taken.

They had Spirits Within--nothing to do with any of the past FF games. They FFVII Compilation is unique--it is the only series in which they have expanded the world so much. They had FFX-2, a direct sequel. They had Legend of the Crystals--a sequel to FFV. Didn't do well. They had the anime Unlimited; nothing to do with any of the FF games.

They have thirteen games, the Tactics series (unrelated to each other), Legends, the Chocobo games, and a metric ton of others that have nothing to do with each other.

Using your logic, it would be smarter for BioWare to make completely unrelated games, and wait until they strike gold, and wring it dry.

Where did I claim that?

Where did I say absolutely everyone said "no"? I said "resounding". Look it up.

Modifié par Saibh, 19 août 2010 - 11:00 .

[Taint Master]

KethWolfheart wrote...

As for the canon issues, I already addressed this (as have many others in this thread) - but either you are not reading posts in your own thread or have decided not to respond to valid points that run counter to your arguement, which borders on being rather trollish in behavoir.

What was the counter argument against a canon story?  If there was a compelling one so far I haven't seen it.

It's unrealistic to expect Bioware to continue with open ended games that tie into one another.  I'm just asking people to be rational about this.

[Taint Master]

Saibh wrote...

Using your logic, it would be smarter for BioWare to make completely unrelated games, and wait until they strike gold, and wring it dry.

They have the opportunity to do so now with DA2.  That's the point.

[Merllle]

Taint Master wrote...

It's unrealistic to expect Bioware to continue with open ended games that tie into one another.  I'm just asking people to be rational about this.

Something is only unrealistic until proven otherwise. And BioWare won't work otherway, thank the gods.

Taint Master wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Using
your logic, it would be smarter for BioWare to make completely
unrelated games, and wait until they strike gold, and wring it
dry.

They have the opportunity to do so now with DA2.  That's
the point.

I am... Speechless, ladies and gentleman. Speechless.

Modifié par Merllle, 19 août 2010 - 11:04 .

[finnugold]

Taint Master wrote...

finnugold wrote...

Also, hundreds of variables is barely anything in computer programming.

Those hundereds of variables have wide reaching storyline implications.  That means dialogue referencing each of them has to be written and voiced.  Consequences from them have to be felt, which means different quest lines or even zones altogether may open up depenging on the state of the world.

It's a lot more complicated than you're making it out to be.

I was simply addressing the programming part of the equation. I said nothing about the writing that would be involved. I said nothing about anything storyline-related. I simply referred to the variables.

And you're acting as if it's your choice whether or not something is too difficult for a team of professionals to handle. Let them decide. If they find that they don't have enough resources - be that time or money - to handle writing in the consequences of your actions from a previous game, then they'll figure something out.

[KethWolfheart]

Merllle wrote...

Taint Master wrote...

It's unrealistic to expect Bioware to continue with open ended games that tie into one another.  I'm just asking people to be rational about this.

Something is only unrealistic until proven otherwise. And BioWare won't work otherway, thank the gods.

Taint Master wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Using
your logic, it would be smarter for BioWare to make completely
unrelated games, and wait until they strike gold, and wring it
dry.

They have the opportunity to do so now with DA2.  That's
the point.

I am... Speechless, ladies and gentleman. Speechless.

Aye that pretty much indicates TM is just trolling at this point.

[Taint Master]

KethWolfheart wrote...

Aye that pretty much indicates TM is just trolling at this point.

Cool then I guess you won't need to keep responding then.

[Mihura]

Just take the advice and go play another game geez, there are tons of them in the market, like The Witcher for example it has everything you like just stay way from DA. By the way JRPGs according to bioware are not RPGs so you see even bioware do not agree with you.

By the way No! too I like to play female and if that change you can bet I will not be playing anymore DA ever again, dude just go way.

Modifié par Mihura, 19 août 2010 - 11:10 .

[KennethAFTopp]

Let's not get nasty here

[ReinaHW]

If the DA series ended on a part 3 with a truly fitting end and there was no milking at all of any of their series, then that's fine with me, as long as the series ends on a great note and has you hungry for whatever else Bioware will create.



Milking the series dry would be horrible, any Bioware game that is milked to death would lose what can make them special in the first place. There are plenty of game series that are milked to death, some so badly that it's not even funny.



Bioware games don't need to be milked to death, no game series should be, not at the risk of losing what can make them special in the first place.

[Taint Master]

Meh, I'm tired of arguing about this anyway. People don't seem to get what I'm saying no matter how I word it. But don't be surprised if Bioware chooses to set a canon storyline down the road.



Honestly I don't see any way to avoid it and keep the project manageable.

[KennethAFTopp]

Not what you've said though.

[Rapidiul]

Now let's bury this thread to oblivion

[Taint Master]

That was the whole point of the thread. They have a great protagonist in Garrett Hawke, why not make his story canon and avoid complications later? It's the perfect opportunity.

[KennethAFTopp]

I think we strongly disagreed with this:



" I don't think there's a point in letting us make our own 'Hawkes' anymore. "

[Taint Master]

KennethAFTopp wrote...

I think we strongly disagreed with this:

" I don't think there's a point in letting us make our own 'Hawkes' anymore. "

Well I mean don't you think it's a bit of a waste of resources to build a complex CC if Garrett is made canon?

[ReinaHW]

And as mentioned, it would alienate many of those who play the games, they would feel that the Hawke they make won't fit the story.

It would never work, maybe for characters you don't play as, like the Dragon Age books have done, but for the character you play as, no, it wouldn't work because every person has their own version of the main character.
Be it the male Hawke or the female, their version is canon for them and Bioware know that.

What is canon is the history that's created for the game world, the races and their interactions, the aftermath, the inbetween and the before.
But the playable main lead, that's for the player to shape and guide to the conclusion, whatever the choice may be along the way.

Modifié par ReinaHW, 19 août 2010 - 11:24 .

[KennethAFTopp]

Taint Master wrote...

KennethAFTopp wrote...

I think we strongly disagreed with this:

" I don't think there's a point in letting us make our own 'Hawkes' anymore. "

Well I mean don't you think it's a bit of a waste of resources to build a complex CC if Garrett is made canon?

No.

[Merci357]

I could understand if you prefered some story decisions were made into a canon story, but the character? Honestly, that's a single different variable when importing into a future game/expansion. Your Hawke was called Garrett, and mine was a custom FemHawke. How does canon Garrett prevent the overflow of dozens of story choices in any way, like NPC X is alive for you, but dead for me?

[Saibh]

KennethAFTopp wrote...

Taint Master wrote...

KennethAFTopp wrote...

I think we strongly disagreed with this:

" I don't think there's a point in letting us make our own 'Hawkes' anymore. "

Well I mean don't you think it's a bit of a waste of resources to build a complex CC if Garrett is made canon?

No.

Male!Revan doesn't negate the fun I had playing Female!Revan. Even if it is annoying, and irritates me every time someone comes trolling in when you mention Revan with a 'she', I still had fun playing the game.

[KennethAFTopp]

Saibh wrote...

KennethAFTopp wrote...

Taint Master wrote...

KennethAFTopp wrote...

I think we strongly disagreed with this:

" I don't think there's a point in letting us make our own 'Hawkes' anymore. "

Well I mean don't you think it's a bit of a waste of resources to build a complex CC if Garrett is made canon?

No.

Male!Revan doesn't negate the fun I had playing Female!Revan. Even if it is annoying, and irritates me every time someone comes trolling in when you mention Revan with a 'she', I still had fun playing the game.

Totally, I don't mind overarching Canon that is against what happened in my playthroughs, but don't take away the choice in the game individually. the fun in bioware games are something like, Werewolves or elves, Rachni live or no.

[KethWolfheart]

Taint Master wrote...

KennethAFTopp wrote...

I think we strongly disagreed with this:

" I don't think there's a point in letting us make our own 'Hawkes' anymore. "

Well I mean don't you think it's a bit of a waste of resources to build a complex CC if Garrett is made canon?

And this is why I stated what I did - you have yet to prove or give any solid reason as to why DA needs to have Garret as Hawk and set as cannon.  You have given some, weak, examples of another game that did well with something similar - and yet then argue against yourself at various points in the thread about wanting a similar story when FF, as pointed out, isn't like that.

You talk about a canon Garrett and then respond to comments about a female lead in a future DA game ... which then refutes your point that DA needs to have this whole IP franchices with a locked in stone canon main character and story.

You do not even provide any good points as to why this might make DA successful (which it already is) and in fact could have a huge backlash (as shown by the people in this thread) among people that could hurt the franchise.  People have already pointed out the game does have books and comics and other media, which you also didn't respond to.

In general you make inflammatory statements, provide poor reasons for your point, don't properly counter point refuting arguements and tend to focus only on statements that back you.

Still my apologies for implying you are a troll, since regardless of your agenda you have remained, mostly, polite.  But it is clear you don't really wish to hear opposing views.

[Taint Master]

Merci357 wrote...

I could understand if you prefered some story decisions were made into a canon story, but the character? Honestly, that's a single different variable when importing into a future game/expansion. Your Hawke was called Garrett, and mine was a custom FemHawke. How does canon Garrett prevent the overflow of dozens of story choices in any way, like NPC X is alive for you, but dead for me?

Well for example, a male Hawke (Garrett) probably has different romance choices in the game.  What if he is able to have a child with one or more?  That is something that could definitely carry over to later games. 

It would work the same way for a female Hawke, and had Hawke been presented as a kickass female I would still be arguing to make the character canon.  It's just for simplicity's sake, nothing more.

[ReinaHW]

Reven for me is female as well, she always will be. In my eyes, Reven as female is canon for that game, just as the evile in the second being female was canon for me, and my Grey Warden female characters in DA:O are canon in my eyes.



To be told that I can only have them as male and male only, that's just too limiting. Each player has their own canon Warden/Jedi/Sith and so on if the option to create, choose gender and so on is there.

Without those options then it would be pretty boring.