403 réponses à ce sujet

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
You are also hinging on a bunch of assumptions that revealing this data might help prevent such atrocities in the future.  Or that the geth even understand or buy into the emotional idea of "the dead deserving the truth to be told." The point is, you cannot predict what will happen.  There are potential consequences for taking either course of action.   I could make a giant list of said consequences for both sides, but I think it would be pointless and long and grueling to do so.  I side with Tali because her desires and her friendship are my main certainties in a situation otherwise mired in vague possibilities.  And whether or not Tali will be tried again is irrelevant because she has already expressed willingness to be found guilty if she has to, and all her trial will produce is her exile not her imprisonment or execution so it won't impact her ability to help on the mission.

A) My assumption that educating about atrocities helping to prevent them is not much of an assumption. The old addage about learning history is not just some superfluous quote.

I never argued about the feelings of the GETH. They are robots. The victims on that ship are the quarians. They are the ones who deserve the truth to be exposed. It's not about the geth outside the fact that Rael put them together and that's what caused the deaths.

C) I find it funny that you say the only certainty in your decision is Tali's friendship. XD
Imagine a similar scenario. I give you a button and tell you that pressing this button will blow up a major city. I also tell you that if you do press that button I will give you 100 dollars. By your logic here you are saying that you will push the button because the only certainty is my 100 dollars. LMAO

And don't tell me I'm twisting your words. That is what you're saying. Not pushing the button just too many vague possibilities for it to be the proper decision...

D) Tali's possibility of future procedures is relevant. Tali did express that she'd rather be exiled, but that was a heat of the moment decision. It's very possible that in the future she would regret that when Admiral Xen takes over Rael's research and 20 ships are destroyed by her geth creations.

But now we are delving too far into Shepard's motives. This is about Tali. What Tali asks you to do is unreasonable, and her reaction to you disagreeing with her is a selfish brat attack.

[Clover Rider]

Andaius20 wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...



Rael actions were definitely wrong, no doubt. However, the information ends up causing even more damage and turmoil. It was better to blame the Heretics on the attack then to divide the Quarians by revealing the true culprit. Additionally, choosing to reveal the information is a renegade choice.

Sorry, but I have to step in here again and point out the fallacy that renegade somehow automatically equals an "evil" decision. I believe you're also the individual that said that seeing things in black and white is "evil" as well.

So, which is it? Are renegade decisions inherently evil? Or is seeing stuff in black and white not evil? 

eh I'm of the opinion that "renegade goes from "being a douchebag" to people to down right Evil. I play paragade 100% P about 40% R Most of the renegade responses seem to b in the Shep being a jerk, but not evil category.

Me too :innocent:

[tj987654321]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...
Rael actions were definitely wrong, no doubt. However, the information ends up causing even more damage and turmoil. It was better to blame the Heretics on the attack then to divide the Quarians by revealing the true culprit. Additionally, choosing to reveal the information is a renegade choice.

So what if it's a renegade choice?

Oh, yeah, I forgot that all renegade decisions are evil by default, right?

And I prefer to make my major Shepard decisions without meta-gaming knowledge. I try to pick what my Shepard would do. And I honestly do not see my paragon Shepard hiding treason and war crimes for the sake of one girl's feelings.

BioWare made that a "renegade" choice because they wrote it as if the entire thing was about Tali. So, yes, in regards of the decision being based around Tali it is "renegade" because it's not what she wants. In regards to actual morals and legal issues, not so much renegade.

It's renegade because of the distress it causes. Friends and families who lost loved ones on that ship would be better off not knowing the truth. Think about why the Council is covering up the truth about the "geth attacks". Do you think civilians learned about how the Council had legitimate information about Soverign, but choose to not act, causing millions of lives to be lost?

[Clover Rider]

tj987654321 wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...
Rael actions were definitely wrong, no doubt. However, the information ends up causing even more damage and turmoil. It was better to blame the Heretics on the attack then to divide the Quarians by revealing the true culprit. Additionally, choosing to reveal the information is a renegade choice.

So what if it's a renegade choice?

Oh, yeah, I forgot that all renegade decisions are evil by default, right?

And I prefer to make my major Shepard decisions without meta-gaming knowledge. I try to pick what my Shepard would do. And I honestly do not see my paragon Shepard hiding treason and war crimes for the sake of one girl's feelings.

BioWare made that a "renegade" choice because they wrote it as if the entire thing was about Tali. So, yes, in regards of the decision being based around Tali it is "renegade" because it's not what she wants. In regards to actual morals and legal issues, not so much renegade.

It's renegade because of the distress it causes. Friends and families who lost loved ones on that ship would be better off not knowing the truth. Think about why the Council is covering up the truth about the "geth attacks". Do you think civilians learned about how the Council had legitimate information about Soverign, but choose to not act, causing millions of lives to be lost?

But the law :innocent:.

[fortunesque]

tj987654321 wrote...

It's renegade because of the distress it causes. Friends and families who lost loved ones on that ship would be better off not knowing the truth. Think about why the Council is covering up the truth about the "geth attacks". Do you think civilians learned about how the Council had legitimate information about Soverign, but choose to not act, causing millions of lives to be lost?

You're using renegade and evil interchangeably. 

Modifié par fortunesque, 20 août 2010 - 01:37 .

[tj987654321]

Some Geth wrote...

Andaius20 wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...



Rael actions were definitely wrong, no doubt. However, the information ends up causing even more damage and turmoil. It was better to blame the Heretics on the attack then to divide the Quarians by revealing the true culprit. Additionally, choosing to reveal the information is a renegade choice.

Sorry, but I have to step in here again and point out the fallacy that renegade somehow automatically equals an "evil" decision. I believe you're also the individual that said that seeing things in black and white is "evil" as well.

So, which is it? Are renegade decisions inherently evil? Or is seeing stuff in black and white not evil? 

eh I'm of the opinion that "renegade goes from "being a douchebag" to people to down right Evil. I play paragade 100% P about 40% R Most of the renegade responses seem to b in the Shep being a jerk, but not evil category.

Me too :innocent:

I definently don't think renegade is evil; but it is ruthless and selfish.

[Clover Rider]

tj987654321 wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Andaius20 wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...



Rael actions were definitely wrong, no doubt. However, the information ends up causing even more damage and turmoil. It was better to blame the Heretics on the attack then to divide the Quarians by revealing the true culprit. Additionally, choosing to reveal the information is a renegade choice.

Sorry, but I have to step in here again and point out the fallacy that renegade somehow automatically equals an "evil" decision. I believe you're also the individual that said that seeing things in black and white is "evil" as well.

So, which is it? Are renegade decisions inherently evil? Or is seeing stuff in black and white not evil? 

eh I'm of the opinion that "renegade goes from "being a douchebag" to people to down right Evil. I play paragade 100% P about 40% R Most of the renegade responses seem to b in the Shep being a jerk, but not evil category.

Me too :innocent:

I definently don't think renegade is evil; but it is ruthless and selfish.

So just an a-hole .

[tj987654321]

Just to tell you, almost every playthrough; I am 95% renegade and 5% paragon. (Really hard to do, expecially with playing ME 1) That is evil.

[tj987654321]

Some Geth wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Andaius20 wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...



Rael actions were definitely wrong, no doubt. However, the information ends up causing even more damage and turmoil. It was better to blame the Heretics on the attack then to divide the Quarians by revealing the true culprit. Additionally, choosing to reveal the information is a renegade choice.

Sorry, but I have to step in here again and point out the fallacy that renegade somehow automatically equals an "evil" decision. I believe you're also the individual that said that seeing things in black and white is "evil" as well.

So, which is it? Are renegade decisions inherently evil? Or is seeing stuff in black and white not evil? 

eh I'm of the opinion that "renegade goes from "being a douchebag" to people to down right Evil. I play paragade 100% P about 40% R Most of the renegade responses seem to b in the Shep being a jerk, but not evil category.

Me too :innocent:

I definently don't think renegade is evil; but it is ruthless and selfish.

So just an a-hole .

For the most part, however some choices are pure evil.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

tj987654321 wrote...
It's renegade because of the distress it causes. Friends and families who lost loved ones on that ship would be better off not knowing the truth. Think about why the Council is covering up the truth about the "geth attacks". Do you think civilians learned about how the Council had legitimate information about Soverign, but choose to not act, causing millions of lives to be lost?

So you think covering up those crimes are going to magically make the quarians unite?

The quarians are split. That's why this happened in the first place. Rael thought it was best to do his experiements, another quarian group wants peace with the geth, others want flat out war, Xen wants to "enslave" them again...

That's not going to change. Maybe revealing the truth about what Rael was doing is what the quarians really need. Maybe they need to address these deeply seeded issues in their society instead of sweeping them under the rug and letting them build to a powder keg.

But again, meta gaming.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 20 août 2010 - 01:41 .

[Clover Rider]

Boy come ME3 some will be a bit sorry.

[tj987654321]

fortunesque wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...

It's renegade because of the distress it causes. Friends and families who lost loved ones on that ship would be better off not knowing the truth. Think about why the Council is covering up the truth about the "geth attacks". Do you think civilians learned about how the Council had legitimate information about Soverign, but choose to not act, causing millions of lives to be lost?

You're using renegade and evil interchangeably. 

I'm trying to use renegade as selfish and uncaring; but not pure evil (except for a few choices).

[IntrepidProdigy]

Garrus is my homie, I liked him the most on my squad ever since ME1 (before he was "cool" to a lot of people).

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Some Geth wrote...

Boy come ME3 some will be a bit sorry.

No...

ME2 decisions are not going to be that important to ME3. They certainly won't affect the battle with the reapers, as that will have to be contained within ME3 alone to cater to those who did not play the other games.

[fortunesque]

Some Geth wrote...

Boy come ME3 some will be a bit sorry.

Yeah, that's going to be a bad email. 

[Mystranna Kelteel]

fortunesque wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Boy come ME3 some will be a bit sorry.

Yeah, that's going to be a bad email. 

[Clover Rider]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Boy come ME3 some will be a bit sorry.

No...

ME2 decisions are not going to be that important to ME3. They certainly won't affect the battle with the reapers, as that will have to be contained within ME3 alone to cater to those who did not play the other games.

I was not talking about that .

[Pacifien]

fortunesque wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
Boy come ME3 some will be a bit sorry.

Yeah, that's going to be a bad email. 

HA!

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Some Geth wrote...
I was not talking about that .

Oh, u juz be trollin' some mo'?

My bad.

[Clover Rider]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
I was not talking about that .

Oh, u juz be trollin' some mo'?

My bad.

No...

[tj987654321]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...
It's renegade because of the distress it causes. Friends and families who lost loved ones on that ship would be better off not knowing the truth. Think about why the Council is covering up the truth about the "geth attacks". Do you think civilians learned about how the Council had legitimate information about Soverign, but choose to not act, causing millions of lives to be lost?

So you think covering up those crimes are going to magically make the quarians unite?

The quarians are split. That's why this happened in the first place. Rael thought it was best to do his experiements, another quarian group wants peace with the geth, others want flat out war, Xen wants to "enslave" them again...

That's not going to change. Maybe revealing the truth about what Rael was doing is what the quarians really need. Maybe they need to address these deeply seeded issues in their society instead of sweeping them under the rug and letting them build to a powder keg.

But again, meta gaming.

Do we really know the truth about every major event throughout our history?  Maybe the truth would help the situation? Maybe not?

(On a side note: this is why Mass Effect is so awesome; look at how we formed our opinions on a fictional situation. Neither opinion is completely right or wrong.)

[Clover Rider]

tj987654321 wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...
It's renegade because of the distress it causes. Friends and families who lost loved ones on that ship would be better off not knowing the truth. Think about why the Council is covering up the truth about the "geth attacks". Do you think civilians learned about how the Council had legitimate information about Soverign, but choose to not act, causing millions of lives to be lost?

So you think covering up those crimes are going to magically make the quarians unite?

The quarians are split. That's why this happened in the first place. Rael thought it was best to do his experiements, another quarian group wants peace with the geth, others want flat out war, Xen wants to "enslave" them again...

That's not going to change. Maybe revealing the truth about what Rael was doing is what the quarians really need. Maybe they need to address these deeply seeded issues in their society instead of sweeping them under the rug and letting them build to a powder keg.

But again, meta gaming.

Do we really know the truth about every major event throughout our history?  Maybe the truth would help the situation? Maybe not?

(On a side note: this is why Mass Effect is so awesome; look at how we formed our opinions on a fictional situation. Neither opinion is completely right or wrong.)

Most don't know carp about WW2 and that was not long ago <_<.

[tj987654321]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Boy come ME3 some will be a bit sorry.

No...

ME2 decisions are not going to be that important to ME3. They certainly won't affect the battle with the reapers, as that will have to be contained within ME3 alone to cater to those who did not play the other games.

Actually, I think that ME 2 decisions will be extremely influential to ME 3 because all systems will have it. I just fear that ME 1 decisions will have next to no impact because the PS3 will not have it. They limited the impact of ME 1 on ME 2 because ME 1 will not be released on the PS3.

[tj987654321]

Some Geth wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...
It's renegade because of the distress it causes. Friends and families who lost loved ones on that ship would be better off not knowing the truth. Think about why the Council is covering up the truth about the "geth attacks". Do you think civilians learned about how the Council had legitimate information about Soverign, but choose to not act, causing millions of lives to be lost?

So you think covering up those crimes are going to magically make the quarians unite?

The quarians are split. That's why this happened in the first place. Rael thought it was best to do his experiements, another quarian group wants peace with the geth, others want flat out war, Xen wants to "enslave" them again...

That's not going to change. Maybe revealing the truth about what Rael was doing is what the quarians really need. Maybe they need to address these deeply seeded issues in their society instead of sweeping them under the rug and letting them build to a powder keg.

But again, meta gaming.

Do we really know the truth about every major event throughout our history?  Maybe the truth would help the situation? Maybe not?

(On a side note: this is why Mass Effect is so awesome; look at how we formed our opinions on a fictional situation. Neither opinion is completely right or wrong.)

Most don't know carp about WW2 and that was not long ago <_<.

Exactly, but I was not just talking about that. Think about some much more recent events that have occured and still we do not have the entire truth.