403 réponses à ce sujet

[Thompson family]

Tali's a good Quarian. Grunt's a good Krogan. Zaeed's a gun for hire. Miranda and Jacob are good soldiers. Grunt and Miranda also have daddy issues. Thane's a professional killer for the Hanar, and so forth.



Garrus went to Omega and put himself in great danger because nobody else was willing to. He's his own man.



You bet we like Garrus.

[Adriana22]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I thought ME1 Garrus was okay, though I was largely apathetic toward him. He complimented both my Shepard and Liara perfectly in combat.

However, I loathe Garrus in his ME2 incarnation.

How so? He's not that much different from ME1 Garrus..

[Adriana22]

jtav wrote...

I despise Garrus. So we exist.

Why?

[Mystranna Kelteel]

I despise Garrus more than any other character, though Tali is a close second.



The reasons why I hate Garrus are numerous.



First of all, it should be said that in ME1 he was completely spineless, letting Shepard simply dictate how he should act. Now, in ME2 that's been retconned. Garrus turned into a complete renegade douchebag in those two years regardless of whether or not he was leaning paragon in ME1.



And that's why I hate him. He's a douchebag.

On top of that he's incredibly reckless and egotistical. He thinks he has the best answer for the galaxy and he's not afraid to risk the lives of other people on suicide missions that are obviously suicide missions. Did he really think he was going to make a dent in Omega? Yes, he did because he's short-sighted, reckless, and arrogant. And on top of that he judges people without reason. He thinks every single person on Omega is a witless idiot who deserves death.



He also doesn't learn from his mistakes. He gets his entire team killed on Omega and his only reaction is OMG I NEED REVENGE!!!! It's his fault they died, yet he accepts no responsibility.



And then he asks his commanding officer to help him out in getting this revenge. And what does he do on this quest? He specifically tells Shepard that he doesn't care what she thinks because he's going to do it his way. So he's incredibly disrespectful to his superior officer (who is only on that quest as a personal favor to him) to boot. Even if you do convince him to spare the guy he gets all pissy about it and refuses to talk about it.



Well, Garrus, **** you. You're reckless, irresponsible, egotistical, and useless. You don't deserve half of the breaks you get, and watching you rocketed in the face was probably the most satisfying part of my suicide mission experiments. In my canon run my Shepard keeps him alive, but she isn't going to risk giving him any responsibilities, and she certainly won't recruit him in ME3 if she's given the option.

[ciaweth]

Teehee!

[jellobell]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

I despise Garrus more than any other character, though Tali is a close second.

The reasons why I hate Garrus are numerous.

First of all, it should be said that in ME1 he was completely spineless, letting Shepard simply dictate how he should act. Now, in ME2 that's been retconned. Garrus turned into a complete renegade douchebag in those two years regardless of whether or not he was leaning paragon in ME1.

And that's why I hate him. He's a douchebag.
On top of that he's incredibly reckless and egotistical. He thinks he has the best answer for the galaxy and he's not afraid to risk the lives of other people on suicide missions that are obviously suicide missions. Did he really think he was going to make a dent in Omega? Yes, he did because he's short-sighted, reckless, and arrogant. And on top of that he judges people without reason. He thinks every single person on Omega is a witless idiot who deserves death.

He also doesn't learn from his mistakes. He gets his entire team killed on Omega and his only reaction is OMG I NEED REVENGE!!!! It's his fault they died, yet he accepts no responsibility.

And then he asks his commanding officer to help him out in getting this revenge. And what does he do on this quest? He specifically tells Shepard that he doesn't care what she thinks because he's going to do it his way. So he's incredibly disrespectful to his superior officer (who is only on that quest as a personal favor to him) to boot. Even if you do convince him to spare the guy he gets all pissy about it and refuses to talk about it.

Well, Garrus, **** you. You're reckless, irresponsible, egotistical, and useless. You don't deserve half of the breaks you get, and watching you rocketed in the face was probably the most satisfying part of my suicide mission experiments. In my canon run my Shepard keeps him alive, but she isn't going to risk giving him any responsibilities, and she certainly won't recruit him in ME3 if she's given the option.

That's an interesting perspective. To be able to have mutiple interpretations of their actions and motivations is the mark of a multifaceted character, and I can definitely see where you're coming from.

In ME1 rather than seeing him as spineless I appreciated Garrus' consideration of Shepard's opinion and thought that it added to the student-mentor dynamic they had. I was an paragon, and though Garrus the vigilante took me by surprise I felt that it made sense for Garrus to be angry and confused in the wake of Shepard's death, especially when the Council took such great steps to cover up all she/he had accomplished. He tried to emulate Shepard (gather a team, go fight bad guys) but failed due to a betrayal by one of his own men.

Which brings me to the loyalty mission. I would argue that Garrus does take a great deal of responsibility for the death of his team, and sees killing Sidonis as a kind of redemption. Because he failed in his responsibilities toward his men, he must now avenge their deaths. This means a great deal to him, and the fact that he listens to Shepard at all, I believe, shows the great degree of trust between the two of them.

Spineless vs. trusting, reckless vs. idealistic, you may not like him very much but the fact that we can get such a great discussion out of interpreting his personality just goes to show that Bioware has made a really interesting character.

[FireEye]

I don't like him.  I don't dislike him, either.  Mostly, I miss Nihlus. 

[Mystranna Kelteel]

jellobell wrote...
That's an interesting perspective. To be able to have mutiple interpretations of their actions and motivations is the mark of a multifaceted character, and I can definitely see where you're coming from.

In ME1 rather than seeing him as spineless I appreciated Garrus' consideration of Shepard's opinion and thought that it added to the student-mentor dynamic they had. I was an paragon, and though Garrus the vigilante took me by surprise I felt that it made sense for Garrus to be angry and confused in the wake of Shepard's death, especially when the Council took such great steps to cover up all she/he had accomplished. He tried to emulate Shepard (gather a team, go fight bad guys) but failed due to a betrayal by one of his own men.

Which brings me to the loyalty mission. I would argue that Garrus does take a great deal of responsibility for the death of his team, and sees killing Sidonis as a kind of redemption. Because he failed in his responsibilities toward his men, he must now avenge their deaths. This means a great deal to him, and the fact that he listens to Shepard at all, I believe, shows the great degree of trust between the two of them.

Spineless vs. trusting, reckless vs. idealistic, you may not like him very much but the fact that we can get such a great discussion out of interpreting his personality just goes to show that Bioware has made a really interesting character.

Is he a twelve year old boy? Does he really think revenge is his path to redemption? The blame is hardly on Sidonis. Garrus led eleven or so people into an entire space station known for corruption and crime. He really expected them all to clean it up and get away heroes? That's like me going into a bar known to be a hangout for the city's thief circles, leaving my purse on the table as I go to make a phone call and then being surprised when it's not there when I get back. Am I going to solely blame the thief that took it? No because it was a ridiculously stupid thing to do on my part in the first place.

Garrus may be a bit naive and idealistic, but that doesn't play to his credit when he's going out and risking the lives of other people to suit his own ego. Well, not only risking their lives but getting them killed...

Garrus was much more likeable in ME1 despite his weak personality. At least then he was willing to listen and think about things. In ME2 he's gone off the deep end, and I don't care if it's because he's stressed out about Shepard's death or what. That's not an excuse for his behavior, and he is not "cool" or justified in his stupidity.

[Adriana22]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

I despise Garrus more than any other character, though Tali is a close second.

The reasons why I hate Garrus are numerous.

First of all, it should be said that in ME1 he was completely spineless, letting Shepard simply dictate how he should act. Now, in ME2 that's been retconned. Garrus turned into a complete renegade douchebag in those two years regardless of whether or not he was leaning paragon in ME1.

And that's why I hate him. He's a douchebag.
On top of that he's incredibly reckless and egotistical. He thinks he has the best answer for the galaxy and he's not afraid to risk the lives of other people on suicide missions that are obviously suicide missions. Did he really think he was going to make a dent in Omega? Yes, he did because he's short-sighted, reckless, and arrogant. And on top of that he judges people without reason. He thinks every single person on Omega is a witless idiot who deserves death.

He also doesn't learn from his mistakes. He gets his entire team killed on Omega and his only reaction is OMG I NEED REVENGE!!!! It's his fault they died, yet he accepts no responsibility.

And then he asks his commanding officer to help him out in getting this revenge. And what does he do on this quest? He specifically tells Shepard that he doesn't care what she thinks because he's going to do it his way. So he's incredibly disrespectful to his superior officer (who is only on that quest as a personal favor to him) to boot. Even if you do convince him to spare the guy he gets all pissy about it and refuses to talk about it.

Well, Garrus, **** you. You're reckless, irresponsible, egotistical, and useless. You don't deserve half of the breaks you get, and watching you rocketed in the face was probably the most satisfying part of my suicide mission experiments. In my canon run my Shepard keeps him alive, but she isn't going to risk giving him any responsibilities, and she certainly won't recruit him in ME3 if she's given the option.

OK, I appreciate your opinion BUT,

He wasn't spineless, he was young and he was looking for quidance, there's nothing bad about that! You say he did everything Shepard told him to do -and you complain about it.. Yet you complain, when he started to act and think as an independent individual. Truth is, that he accepted Shepards guidance but he either made his own opinions about it or was simply so devastated by loss of his mentor that he became even more lost in his life.

You don't know ho he led his squad on Omega, I doubt they would survive that long if he was so reckless and irresponsible.. And if you choose him as your 2nd leader durring suicide mission, he survives - which showes he propably IS and WAS a good leader.

You really think if someone betrays you it's your fault? He couldn't forsee betrayal of Sidonis so i't not HIS fault his team died, even if he says it WAS his fault, that his team died because of him, because he couldn't see Sidonis betrayal comming. (yes he says that)

And yes, he's more familial while talking to you than other crewmembers, but so i Tali . I guess game just assumes that you and Garrus (or Tali) are friends. And yes, he says he doesn't want to talk about saving Sidonis but, hey .. last time I played ME2 they talked about it quite a while. And in the end, he accepts your decision, not only only as decision of his friend, but also as decision of his superior officer.

[kraidy1117]

Garrus sucked in ME. He was much better in MZE2.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Adriana22 wrote...
OK, I appreciate your opinion BUT,

He wasn't spineless, he was young and he was looking for quidance, there's nothing bad about that! You say he did everything Shepard told him to do -and you complain about it.. Yet you complain, when he started to act and think as an independent individual. Truth is, that he accepted Shepards guidance but he either made his own opinions about it or was simply so devastated by loss of his mentor that he became even more lost in his life.

You don't know ho he led his squad on Omega, I doubt they would survive that long if he was so reckless and irresponsible.. And if you choose him as your 2nd leader durring suicide mission, he survives - which showes he propably IS and WAS a good leader.

You really think if someone betrays you it's your fault? He couldn't forsee betrayal of Sidonis so i't not HIS fault his team died, even if he says it WAS his fault, that his team died because of him, because he couldn't see Sidonis betrayal comming. (yes he says that)

And yes, he's more familial while talking to you than other crewmembers, but so i Tali . I guess game just assumes that you and Garrus (or Tali) are friends. And yes, he says he doesn't want to talk about saving Sidonis but, hey .. last time I played ME2 they talked about it quite a while. And in the end, he accepts your decision, not only only as decision of his friend, but also as decision of his superior officer.

Most of your points here I already covered above.

Yes, it is Garrus's fault that they all ended up dead. He started this mission and he should have known how stupid the idea was. 11-12 people taking out an entire gang? Three entire gangs? Really? It's very much his fault, and he has no right to think otherwise. He got insanely lucky that he found a fortifiable place to lay low in. He's even luckier that Shepard got there when she did.

As for how he led his squad, that doesn't really matter. They all ended up dead. The fact that BioWare says he's a good leader on the suicide mission is irrelevant. I disagree with that entire idea, and my Shepard would never let Garrus lead a team after all the crap he's pulled in the past.

His actions with Dr. Heart and on Omega proved to her that he was reckless, especially after she left him thinking he had learned a lesson and then reuinted with him only to learn that he completely changed his mind. His actions on the loyalty quest proved to my Shepard that he only cares about doing things his way, and his recklessness might get people killed on the Collector Base. Shepard is the only one who seems to get even close to getting through to him, so why would she trust him to lead people without her being there to keep an eye on him?

Garrus and Tali are probably the most selfish squad-mates BioWare has ever made, and it baffles me to no end that they seem to be the most popular.

[tj987654321]

I guess almost everyone likes Garrus, except for a few HATERS!

Modifié par tj987654321, 19 août 2010 - 08:57 .

[jellobell]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Is he a twelve year old boy? Does he really think revenge is his path to redemption?

*Shrug* It's kinda hard to think logically when one of your own men betrays you. I went the paragon route though, so he does realize that he's being a bit irrational if you tell him.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
The blame is hardly on Sidonis. Garrus led eleven or so people into an entire space station known for corruption and crime. He really expected them all to clean it up and get away heroes?

Garrus may be a bit naive and idealistic, but that doesn't play to his credit when he's going out and risking the lives of other people to suit his own ego. Well, not only risking their lives but getting them killed...

Maybe he did expect to make a difference, but that's his idealistic streak again. Also, according to the email you get from the wife of one of his teammates he picked up his crew in Omega itself. They knew the risks and were fully expecting to be killed in the line of duty, but felt that the chance to clean up Omega was worth it. I got the feeling that Garrus did blame himself for leading his team into danger and getting them killed, and that the email was meant to show that he wasn't responsible for the choices the others made.

[kraidy1117]

tj987654321 wrote...



I guess almost everyone likes Garrus, except for a few HATERS!

All characters have fans who don't like them. To think otherwise is stupid.

[Jack Package]

Garrus team on Omega joined him voluntarily. They knew what they are getting into. (And if they didn't knew then they were idiots.) So then they got killed. Bad luck. It was a risky operation from the start. It's their own fault. If you don't want to get in danger, don't join.

[tj987654321]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Most of your points here I already covered above.

Yes, it is Garrus's fault that they all ended up dead. He started this mission and he should have known how stupid the idea was. 11-12 people taking out an entire gang? Three entire gangs? Really? It's very much his fault, and he has no right to think otherwise. He got insanely lucky that he found a fortifiable place to lay low in. He's even luckier that Shepard got there when she did.

As for how he led his squad, that doesn't really matter. They all ended up dead. The fact that BioWare says he's a good leader on the suicide mission is irrelevant. I disagree with that entire idea, and my Shepard would never let Garrus lead a team after all the crap he's pulled in the past.

His actions with Dr. Heart and on Omega proved to her that he was reckless, especially after she left him thinking he had learned a lesson and then reuinted with him only to learn that he completely changed his mind. His actions on the loyalty quest proved to my Shepard that he only cares about doing things his way, and his recklessness might get people killed on the Collector Base. Shepard is the only one who seems to get even close to getting through to him, so why would she trust him to lead people without her being there to keep an eye on him?

Garrus and Tali are probably the most selfish squad-mates BioWare has ever made, and it baffles me to no end that they seem to be the most popular.

Garrus is EXTREMELY selfish. I mean, it's not like he's one of the thirteen people that risks his life to save the entire galaxy from collector domination; oh wait, he IS!
Garrus is not selfish; he is ruthless and willing to get the job done!

[tj987654321]

kraidy1117 wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...



I guess almost everyone likes Garrus, except for a few HATERS!

All characters have fans who don't like them. To think otherwise is stupid.

Are you one of them?

[tonnactus]

Adriana22 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

I bet a lot of paragons were dissapointed that nothing they say and did really affected garrus way...
And that influenced their opinion about garrus and if they like or dislike him.I was dissapointed that
he went on the dumb vigilante trip.

I'm paragon too and yet I wasn't really dissapointed with Garrus in ME2 .. Shepards death hitted everyone who cared about her/him really hard (take Liara for example) and Garrus tried to do his best with his life ..

But that would be to reapply as a spectre...
Something he always wanted to be.

[Barquiel]

Jack Package wrote...

It was a risky operation from the start.

I think it was a pointless operation. What was the final goal...kill every Eclipse, Bloodpack and Blue Sun merc in the galaxy?

Modifié par Barquiel, 19 août 2010 - 09:07 .

[tonnactus]

Adriana22 wrote...


How so? He's not that much different from ME1 Garrus..

And that is the problem for some people,including me.This put me from liking garrus to neutral.

[tonnactus]

Barquiel wrote...

Jack Package wrote...

It was a risky operation from the start.

I think it was a pointless operation. What was the final goal...kill every Eclipse, Bloodpack and Blue Sun merc in the galaxy?

Like aria said,he is dumb to believe to try to put rules in place that never had one.(well,exept one specific)

[Jack Package]

Barquiel wrote...

Jack Package wrote...

It was a risky operation from the start.

I think it was a pointless operation. What was the final goal...kill every Eclipse, Bloodpack and Blue Sun merc in the galaxy?

Hm, I don't remember if that is even stated.
And if it was pointless, so what. When you join a pointless operation you can't blame the one who starts it. It's your own fault.

[Adriana22]

[/quote]
But that would be to reapply as a spectre...
Something he always wanted to be.

[/quote]

He said that before Shepard died.. After her/his death well.. his opinion propably changed .. After all, he wanted to learn from Shepard and he wanted to be like her/him..

[kraidy1117]

tj987654321 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...



I guess almost everyone likes Garrus, except for a few HATERS!

All characters have fans who don't like them. To think otherwise is stupid.

Are you one of them?

I hated Garrus in ME, but I loved Garrus in ME2.